Wales Back-Row V Samoa. Poll

to get an idea of who the fans would like to see in the Welsh back-row against Samoa lets have a vote

I'd like to see a back row of Shingler, Tipuric and Faletau, but I'd be happy with Ryan Jones, Tipuric and Faletau.

I have gone for Jones Faletau Tipuric but if Jones is out then put Shingler in there

I would go with Shingler at 6, Tipuric at 7 and R Jones at 8 and Toby on the bench to cover the back row, McCuster and Turnbull nead to go back to their clubs, I much prefer J Thomas at least he has a brain.

I'd stick with the back row who started against Argentina, Falatau was good but the other 2 were non existant, maybe bring Jones in at 6.

It's quite simple for me, Warbs shouldn't have been in Aus in the summer, and shouldn't be in the squad now, he gets this last chance on friday and if he can't do it versus Samoa he has to go back and show some form for the Blues before he's dropped altogether!!

Tipuric shouldve started in Aus and Shouldve started on saturday!!!

It's strange to see so many people whinge about selection pre game only to be proved right post game!!!

I see some logic in Andy Powell as he did well in the RWC as a sub, at least he is strong not like the two Scarlets boys in the 22. I have never been a Powell fan but is more controlled than he was 18 months or more ago appart from waving to the Bath crowd.

Woah calm down a bit, we struggled but theres no need to panic, Andy Powell is clearly not the way to go!!!

Warbs shouldn't have been in Aus in the summer, and shouldn't be in the squad now, he gets this last chance on friday.

Why, How many chances does he get. Does he get nine lives like a cat.

Did'nt he go off injured AGAIN? When is he going to play for a full eigthy minutes. Why does he keep getting in the team when other players are playing better?

He was subbed off, on 75 mins wasnt it. And had to be treated for blood.

But dropping your captain after 1 game in the tour??? How does that look to the rest of the team?!

IMHO the Samoan game will be vicious and dangerous around the breakdown, better to give Tipuric 20 mins late on than him get injured.

Maybe we are all being duped here by Howley, maybe the starting team sat was a weakened one in order to surprise the the kiwi's?!! Maybe Howley has something up his sleeve and the kiwi's are being targetted at the sake of the first two games???

Tipper Itch is a no brainer. Possibly the ugliest thing since Craig Quinnell but a star player.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'd stick with the back row who started against Argentina, Falatau was good but the other 2 were non existant, maybe bring Jones in at 6.

It's quite simple for me, Warbs shouldn't have been in Aus in the summer, and shouldn't be in the squad now, he gets this last chance on friday and if he can't do it versus Samoa he has to go back and show some form for the Blues before he's dropped altogether!!

Tipuric shouldve started in Aus and Shouldve started on saturday!!!

This is such a strange post, full of contradictions.

Why would you start with the same back row when you concede that Turnbull and Warburton were 'non existant' (sic)?

Why would you give Warburton his last chance on Friday when you concede that he shouldn't be in the squad?

If you think Tipuric should have started on Saturday, why wouldn't you start him against Samoa?

It's a strange post.

Luckless

Seems strange I know but you have to take the mistakes made in the first game as done and dusted.

I wouldn't have had Warburton in the squad (navidi has been playing far better) but he is, and he is captain. He played very poorly and has a lot to prove, Samoa will be destructive at the breakdown, and slightly reckless if the past is anything to go on. Warbs as the captain he has been made must stand up and be counted now, lead his team through what should be a winnable game.

Dropping Turnbull now for Jones is doable, it doesn't send a message to the team, it doesn't hurt team morale, but your captain???

IMO Warburton now has to start friday, the rod has been made, it's a case of team management. Tipuric has been the better player for months, but IMHO giving him 20 minutes V samoa will prime hime for the NZ test, it'll be easy to drop Warburton after a 2nd poor performance against a winnable team rather than the knee jerk reaction after 1 poor game.

Whether he should or shouldn't start doesn't matter, Howley hasn't got the balls to drop him other than part of a rotation plan.

But as you've said yourself, it's not just one poor game for Warburton. It's plain to see that he's not the best player in his position. Howley's made a rod for his own back by naming him as squad captain - and I don't see why you need to name a squad captain anyway - but that's not Tipuric's fault. Howley should do what all coaches should do: pick the best XV available, and name a captain from that XV.

Also, you suggest that dropping the captain would hurt team morale, but I'd argue that it's worse for morale to see players who are 'in' keeping their places over others who are in much better form and have been for a while. They then know that the side isn't picked on merit.

LP,

Yh I agree I doubt Tipurics morale is very good if he constantly sees a player he is out performing get picked ahead of him.

A few seasons ago we went through a similar phase where by you could pretty much pick the whole team due to lack of options.

We now have options so please FFS use them and give them their chance.

The same goes for Dan Biggar, Bedford.

Your both right, but Tipuric having a grumble, and the team looking around the locker room at the news their captain for the season is dropped after one bad game at the MS are 2 different things!!!

Warbs wasn't fit in Aus but was rushed in, he isn't fit now but has been rushed in, both times incorrectly but whats done is done, you can either write your captain off after a bad game (of which the crowd and media won't help(and you know the MS crowd think Warbs is world class)) or you give him the chance to respond!!

After saturday Warburton is undroppable from a mangement POV, 1 game in front of a home crowd isn't enough to drop the captain you have made.

Everything up till now was wrong, but how you deal with a dressing room is very tricky, especially after you ballsed up whos in it!!!

But again, maybe Howleys pulling a master stroke and is targetting the NZ game, Hibbard, Tips, Jones, Phillips etc all being man managed for the NZ game?

I don't care what the crowd at the Millennium Stadium think. They're too busy waving at themselves on the big screen and going to the bar to watch the rugby.

But they are the paying customers, they and the media will be the ones grumbling and putting pressure on Howley, hate them all you like they are what the WRU gives a crap about, not us!!

Blues and LP,

You're both right, the WRU don't give a monkeys as I have said before and whilst access to tickets is far easier than it was years ago it means there scurge of the air horn and pink hat birgade now fill the stadium as opposed to real fans. But as long as its full the WRU not care.

I don't hate them, Bluesman. I just don't care what they think.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Woah calm down a bit, we struggled but theres no need to panic, Andy Powell is clearly not the way to go!!!

I was trying to think what the other selection was that one person voted, I could only think of Powell being another option. The other option my be JT, in fairness they are better the the two Scarlet boys in the squad last Sat.

It is interesting there are currently 22 vote but only 1 for the team Howley (Gatland) will pick for Friday if R Jones is fit (Jones, Tipuric and Faletau). We must be missing something as supporters, at least this back row is better than last week.

The back row will be Jones Warbs Falatau IMHO, and should be!

glamorganalun wrote:I was trying to think what the other selection was that one person voted

That was my vote: it was for Shingler, Tipuric and Faletau.

It will be but Warburton should be ditched and play in the LV to get game time.

Can't ditch your captain now, he's selected, he's played he has to be there again for the good of the locker room.

I think that's bullocks, but I'm pretty sure Howley will select him again.

Its a case of keeping the dressing room happy and motivated at this point, if your captain has something to prove the rest of the pack should be invigorated by a more determined captin

No, if he was dropped he'd have something to prove, next time he comes on as a sub.

How can the dressing room be 'happy and motivated' when they see that form isn't being rewarded?

Teams don't think like that, they see who is the biggest baddest toughest and most talented and they follow, not 1 welsh player will be thinking Warbs should be dropped except for Tipuric and he would never say it!!!

What they will see is their captain being slated and wether the management team is loyal to a guy who had a bad game, they will be bouyed by their captain working his chompers off all week for the next game, by their captains speech in training and pre game.

The captain is a very influential player who commands the respect of the group, a good team follows their captains lead!!

As I said any other player drop, ditch whatever, captain that you made for the series? No chance after one game!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Teams don't think like that, they see who is the biggest baddest toughest and most talented and they follow

And if they know that the captain isn't the most talented available, what then?

thebluesmancometh wrote:The captain is a very influential player who commands the respect of the group, a good team follows their captains lead!!

And if he isn't setting a good example through his performance, what then? How can he command their respect when they know he's not the form player in his position?

Well, Turnbull is out now, so that narrows the options slightly.

LP

He is already captain, automatically the biggest baddest most talented guy there is!!

I understand what your saying, and agree but Howley will be under much more fire for what will be perceived as a knee jerk reaction and dropping his captain don't you think?

Do you really see jon davies applauding Howley for dropping Warbs after game 1? Or ripping him apart for either picking him in the first place or dropping your captain? Look how much slating he's got on here, he has to take the pressure off with a similar team beating Samoa IMHO

Bluesman, I've already said I think Howley will pick him. He's forced his own hand by handing him the squad captaincy, just as he did in Australia.

I do think people give Warburton more credit than he deserves. We did well last season while he was captain, not because he was captain.

In all fairness he rarely played!!!

I think he's a good player, but nowhere near Tipurics or dare I say it Navidis abilities at the minute!!!

He was very good at the World Cup and he did lead well by example - apart from getting himself sent off, which is about the worst example you can possibly set.

Sadly correct, more of an Andy Powell thing than captain

That was a bit harsh of me, but I do think that people believe we did well because he was captain, when if it hadn't been for Matthew Rees getting injured, he wouldn't have been our captain at the World Cup in the first place.

He was in great form mind!!!!

Yes, he was - then!

It made a change for Warburton to get past half time before going off, I suspect he wished he had gone off at half time. Last 6N he only completed 3 halves which Wales went on to win with a different captain (Ryan and Gethin).

I'm not joining the bashing Warburton wagon that some seem to be on atm. For me, he's still a world class player. He was brilliant before the RWC and then well and truly announced himself on the world stage.

Since then, he has suffered with injuries, many impact injuries which are not his fault. If it wasn't for his superb performance vs England in the 6N who knows whether we would have won that game.

Fact is, he's had little game time in the last 7-8 months. This season he's looked decent from the Blues but needs to continue playing for his region to get back to full match fitness. Unfortunately, Howley kept him as captain and now seemingly has to pick him regardless. I think it'd be more beneficial for Wales and for himself if he and Tipuric switched roles. Tipuric has been superb this season and should now be starting at openside, with Warbs on the bench. He can then come on for a 15-20 min cameo where the pressure is off slightly, he'll be fresh and may have more of an impact and decrease his chances of breaking down. Then, by slowly getting back to complete fitness and free of any nigles, maybe then we will see the real Warbs back. I'm sure in the next year or two we will.

liam

That is all we are saying, he shouldnt be there!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:liam

That is all we are saying, he shouldnt be there!!

Correct, the point I was making is he is no great captain so give it R Jones or M Rees if he is playing (I hope not).

no can do at this stage though glam

Agreed

I agree,

He just needs to concentrate on his rugby without the captaincy hanging over his head, as well as Tips needing to play to be rewarded for his stella performances over the last 12 months. I'm not writing Warbs off though, I think the best he can do is go back to that dreadful Blues side and just play minutes.