Keith, Ronan and petulance

So, we all know how ROG moaned and complained when he was rightfully displaced by Johnny Sexton in the Irish 10 shirt. Not wanting to re-hash the past, he petulantly retired after being dropped and then very quickly changed his mind and "rowed in behind the team".

Now, 80% of us on here recognise Earls ' best position as wing or full back (he is not a center). Yet, he reputedly spat the dummy over being picked in the back 3. However upset the youngish man was, I was bemused to read this morning, a quote passage from the Irish Independent highlighting his disdain:

"Keith Earls "absolutely hated playing at 11" and never wanted to play there again. And not just at international level. Rob Penney had barely stepped off the plane from New Zealand when one of his star players was rocking up to his office.

Penney, obviously cognisant of wanting to keep Earls on side, did confirm that he would be given opportunity in the centre. There was a caveat, though, and the Munster coach only went so far."

So, is this good for the Irish team? Is the coach pondering to such Prima Donna esque behaviour? Would a new coach tolerate such rubbish from 2 such senior players? Is the fact that Kidney is "close" to the 2 clouding his judgement in continuing to play Earls out of his best position, just cause he wants to play there? Is this the reason why O'Gara is continuing to get cheap caps at the expense of Messrs Jackson, Keatly and Madigan? Is this contributing in our never ending search for a new centre?

Will Ireland continue to be stifled by blind loyalty until the Kidney Clock hits zero?

Will Ireland continue to be stifled by blind loyalty until the Kidney Clock hits zero?

In my view, if we see O'Gara sitting on the bench on Saturday and we see Earls in the centre, the answer to the above will be a resounding yes.

This is the last game before the 6 nations and will set the stall out for the rest of the Kidney regime.

This will contribute to another precious 6 nations being wasted in terms of the team's development and it will be completely up to a new coach to rectify as Kidney will not drop ROG no matter what exciting alternatives we have at 10.. Ditto for the centre.

I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories ()....but..... I do think player power is a real problem over here and there's too many instances of the tail wagging the dog.....

Like its easy to single ROG and Earls out, and I do agree with the OP, but I think its a general problem and there's probably other examples that could be thrown out there.

Its the coaches job to decide who plays where, not the player.

I do think that Penney's impact has been undermined so far by pressure to facilitate a few guys that don't suit the game that he is trying to implement....but hey ho if the Munster fans are happy its not for me to point that out....

I think the problem starts and ends with the IRFU and wouldn't be too hopeful of things changing too much after the Kidney clock hits zero though ......

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/anthony-foley-set-for-fulltime-role-as-defensive-coach-3301367.html

The former Munster and Ireland back-row is believed to be finding life difficult in Munster as he adjusts to working under Rob Penney, having been in for the job of head coach himself.

I love how the Indo can wind you all up so easily

Mickado wrote:http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/anthony-foley-set-for-fulltime-role-as-defensive-coach-3301367.html

The former Munster and Ireland back-row is believed to be finding life difficult in Munster as he adjusts to working under Rob Penney, having been in for the job of head coach himself.

"ANTHONY FOLEY could be in line to join the Ireland set-up as defence coach on a full-time basis.

But only if Declan Kidney stays on as head coach beyond this season."

Let's hope Foley doesn't get the gig so.

Sin é wrote:I love how the Indo can wind you all up so easily

Indeed even taking the quotes out of context...

I'd say Foley would be in line for the full gig Already working with Ireland 'A' as well as having had a stint as forwards and now defence coach.

Eric Elwood as his assistant might be just what Ireland needs.

He gives a rousing speech apparently, sign him up!

Sin é wrote:I'd say Foley would be in line for the full gig Already working with Ireland 'A' as well as having had a stint as forwards and now defence coach.

Eric Elwood as his assistant might be just what Ireland needs.

Absolutely....Ireland would be lucky to get him...

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:I love how the Indo can wind you all up so easily

Indeed even taking the quotes out of context...

Context yer bollix.... listen to yer man Henry blaming ROG for the SA defeat! :

Everyone put everything into South Africa and that was disappointing. But I don't think we're far off. Even when we were playing the last six minutes, even the last play before unfortunately Rog decided to kick the ball, we had the belief we were going to come back and get the win. That's why it was so heartbreaking.

Mickado wrote:He gives a rousing speech apparently, sign him up!

Well, Sexton is getting a lot of milage as a great leader out of his one rousing speech in the HCup final!

rodders wrote:

DOD wrote:

Sin é wrote:I love how the Indo can wind you all up so easily

Indeed even taking the quotes out of context...

Context yer bollix.... listen to yer man Henry blaming ROG for the SA defeat! :

Everyone put everything into South Africa and that was disappointing. But I don't think we're far off. Even when we were playing the last six minutes, even the last play before unfortunately Rog decided to kick the ball, we had the belief we were going to come back and get the win. That's why it was so heartbreaking.

Act of mercy from ROG - having watched them for 75 minutes, he put them out of their misery!

double post

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:He gives a rousing speech apparently, sign him up!

Well, Sexton is getting a lot of milage as a great leader out of his one rousing speech in the HCup final!

I supose the difference is that Sexton played in that game, and it was a cup final. Not a 50 point hiding for a 3rd tier nation.

I'd say ROG must have lost a bet with BJ or something Sin!....

Maybe thats whats wrong with the players then? They need to show respect to all their opponents when putting on the green jersey.

rodders wrote:I'd say ROG must have lost a bet with BJ or something Sin!....

I wouldn't say BJ is a betting man!

Have you ever played? Ever been dropped? Ever been asked to fill in at tight head and had your head stuck up your hole cos the eejit got lost on the way?
I would be surprised if players didn't have a moan. I know we all trot out the professionalism, should do whats in the teams best interest blahdy blah.
Bottom line is players want to play. Everyone is entitled to a moan. It's up to the coach to make the call and in my experience a coach prefers a player who will speak his mind and say what he wants. The shrinking violet who toes the party line no matter what, doesn't have the dog in him needed on the field.

There's having a moan and then there's retiring in a hissy fit and then taking it back like a hot headed, ego-inflated maniac.

Nothing explains ROGs presence on the 23. Nothing justifies it. There is no logic behind it. Even "hardcore" Munster fans admit this. So what's going on there? Does Kidney lack the cojones to say enough is enough? We're going with Paddy this week?

I suppose 24 hours we'll know.

Plus, having a moan is OK if you need only to get something off your chest. It's not good when the moan is accommodated (Kidney) and the player (Earls) seems to get his way, despite the better alternatives.

ROG - still only a teenager right ? He'll mature.

Warthog wrote:There's having a moan and then there's retiring in a hissy fit and then taking it back like a hot headed, ego-inflated maniac.

Nothing explains ROGs presence on the 23. Nothing justifies it. There is no logic behind it. Even "hardcore" Munster fans admit this. So what's going on there? Does Kidney lack the cojones to say enough is enough? We're going with Paddy this week?

I suppose 24 hours we'll know.

Plus, having a moan is OK if you need only to get something off your chest. It's not good when the moan is accommodated (Kidney) and the player (Earls) seems to get his way, despite the better alternatives.

I would have thought a hot headed ego-inflated maniac would have done anything but take it back. I think he had to swallow a bit of pride there. His presence in the squad is purely down to Deco's inate conservatism not misplaced loyalty. He can be ruthless when necessary. ask Mal O'Kelly.

Why shouldn't Earls be tried at centre? Someone needs to fill the position when BOD hangs up the boots and if Earls can grow into it then fine. It's a bit early to write him off as an option and in fact I think he has had more positives than negatives when playing there. Cave is the only other realistic option playing regularly at 13 and for what ever reason Deco doesn't fancy him.

I've no problem with players speaking out..or even whinging... if they can back it up on the pitch.

if you walk the walk then you need to talk the talk too.

In fairness to ROG he was never a shrinking violet but could usually back up things on the pitch....I'm afraid over the past 18 months his mouth has been writing cheques that his body can't cash anymore.....

In Earls case well ..... he'll probably get another chance to show he's a centre on Saturday....

rodders wrote:

In Earls case well ..... he'll probably get another chance to show he's a centre on Saturday....

I think he showed that quite well last time out

ROG is an exception to all rules. Confirming your retirement mid world cup in an attempt to fish for one last cap v Wales and indeed some more attention is typical of a guy who openly admitted preferring red to green even though at times yellow befitted him most. He served Ireland well for a long time but should have been put out to pasture about 2 years ago.

I'm not sure I'd put Earls in the same category as ROG. He may be petulant but he isnt as sneeky as ROG and I can understand his frustration becuase if he could just have played 13 from the start I believe he would be a great centre and still think he could be. He is also a good winger but we all know that playing multiple positions can ruin a players career.

DOD wrote:

rodders wrote:

In Earls case well ..... he'll probably get another chance to show he's a centre on Saturday....

I think he showed that quite well last time out

That will be the red goggles...mines were white and Trimbs was my motm ...

rodders wrote:

DOD wrote:

rodders wrote:

In Earls case well ..... he'll probably get another chance to show he's a centre on Saturday....

I think he showed that quite well last time out

That will be the red goggles...mines were white and Trimbs was my motm ...

Can I play?

I thought Heaslip gave one of the finest ever performances from an Ireland captain!

I'm not sure I'd put Earls in the same category as ROG. He may be petulant but he isnt as sneeky as ROG and I can understand his frustration becuase if he could just have played 13 from the start I believe he would be a great centre and still think he could be. He is also a good winger but we all know that playing multiple positions can ruin a players career.

This I agree with 100% (and also the ROG piece).

Here's a question though, would a new coach continue to play Earls at centre, knowing he was not the best option?

Earls will be centre tomorrow and ROG will be on the bench for sure. They say the definition of stupidity is the constant repetition of method with the same results, whist expecting something different. I give you DK.

It's either misguided, looking after your own, jobs for the lads, wink wink or he knows next to nothing about rugby.

Which is it?

I have always liked Earls as a player and always thought he could make it as a brilliant 13 so I am biased. I think sadly Earls can lack confidence sometimes but when he is in the zone he has a brilliant eye for a gap, one of our few backs with the ability to make something from nothing and is also an excellent finisher. Cave may be a better option at centre but I wouldnt be disapointed to see Earls in the team.

I think that conor Murray on the otherhand should be sent back to the AIL to learn how to pass before he ever gets a cap ever again though.

ROG should have been sent packing a long time ago too.

Sin é wrote:Maybe thats whats wrong with the players then? They need to show respect to all their opponents when putting on the green jersey.

Forgive them then, for they dids't not know themselves when they dids't wear black.

GunsGerms wrote:
I think that conor Murray on the otherhand should be sent back to the AIL to learn how to pass before he ever gets a cap ever again though.

As DOD and Sin will confirm() I've been a big Murray critic but thought he had a cracking game against Fiji.

GunsGerms wrote:I have always liked Earls as a player and always thought he could make it as a brilliant 13 so I am biased. I think sadly Earls can lack confidence sometimes but when he is in the zone he has a brilliant eye for a gap, one of our few backs with the ability to make something from nothing and is also an excellent finisher. Cave may be a better option at centre but I wouldnt be disapointed to see Earls in the team.

I think that conor Murray on the otherhand should be sent back to the AIL to learn how to pass before he ever gets a cap ever again though.

ROG should have been sent packing a long time ago too.

I would say the same thing about Earls.

came across this recently. Its an old match report of an interpro between Ulster & Munster in which Earls was the centre.

SCHOOLS U19 INTERPROVINCIAL
MUNSTER 54 ULSTER 13

Munster Schools completed a double victory at Musgrave Park on Friday with the Munster Schools U19 team following on from the U18 victory with a comprehensive 54-13 win over their Ulster counterparts. It was a fantastic start to their Interprovincial campaign, with star centre Keith Earls notching up three tries and showing what a tremendous prospect he is in a dazzling display.

Despite playing against the wind Munster controlled from the outset but didn t claim the first score until fifteen minutes into the match when full back Peter O Sullivan converted a penalty. Earls picked up his first try of the day after 11 minutes after a chip ahead from Marcus O Driscoll at halfway saw Earls beat off the competition to kick ahead once more. A favourable bounce allowed Earls to gather and score, which O Sullivan converted, stretching the lead to 10-0. On the 14 minute mark Ulster put their first points on the board with a penalty converted by out half Niall O Connor. He followed up two minutes later with another successful penalty attempt.

Munster however stretched their lead at the half hour mark with a try from centre Tim Kenneally after a well timed pass from Earls, which O Sullivan converted leaving the score 17-6 at half time.

Earl s second try came just after the restart after a break by Ronan O Sullivan set up the speedy centre who scored under the posts. O Sullivan converted once more to put Munster 24-6 in front, and then added another three points at the 7 minute mark. Immediately following this score captain Shane O Sullivan made a 30 yard break, with Ronan O Sullivan and Earls once more involved before Tim Kenneally got the touch down, which O Sullivan converted, putting Munster well ahead with a 34-6 margin. From here on the scores came thick and fast. A lightening fast break from the back of a scrum by scrum half Paul Rowley saw him score with 17 minutes gone in the second half which was followed by tries from replacement winger Edwin Torrie and flanker Robert Allen. Ulster rallied towards the end of the game and a chip from full back Owen McMurray set up Niall O Connor for a try, which McMurray converted.

However, it was certainly Keith Earls day, who finished the scoring with his third try at 28 minutes, giving Munster a comprehensive 54-13 victory over Ulster.

Obvioulsy the opposition was a bit like what it was last weekend, so we can't read too much into it, but whoever wrote that report seemed to be convinced he was a decent centre.

Oh you just happened to come across that eh Sin..... where did you find it, on your bedroom wall...... .....

?............

Sin é, how come it's always people who write professional articles that you seem to slot in as implied proof of certain beliefs you hold?

This article you quote from now doesn't even have a name ("whoever wrote that report")

I'm not questioning Earls here, whether he is good or bad as a 13 (I have my own ideas on the kind of player we need at 13)...but just saying, why is one guy typing something on a page (that old article - and others) seemingly more legitimate than someone here, typing something onto a screen?

It was the match report on the Munster website (2005). At that stage, Earls was only a kid and would not have had an agenda to pick him out/not pick him out as the case might be.

Earls was involved in 5 of the tries scored that day. Hard to ignore that. And he was the centre.

SecretFly wrote:?............

Sin é, how come it's always people who write professional articles that you seem to slot in as implied proof of certain beliefs you hold?

This article you quote from now doesn't even have a name ("whoever wrote that report")

I'm not questioning Earls here, whether he is good or bad as a 13 (I have my own ideas on the kind of player we need at 13)...but just saying, why is one guy typing something on a page (that old article - and others) seemingly more legitimate than someone here, typing something onto a screen?

More to the point, why does a match report from a non-senior game that is 7 years old have any relevance now?

Sin é wrote:It was the match report on the Munster website (2005). At that stage, Earls was only a kid and would not have had an agenda to pick him out/not pick him out as the case might be.

Earls was involved in 5 of the tries scored that day. Hard to ignore that. And he was the centre.

Its also hard to ignore that it was an u19 game that was played 7 years ago.

Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

And he was the centre.

....against Ulster Under 19's. Point proved. Well done. Bettered again.

One thought though... isn't International Rugby a small step up from U19 provincials?

Just a thought... I might be wrong...

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

HOW DARE YOU, YOU CAD !! I have never been more insulted in my life...

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

Lol it's fishing with dynamite when you mention Rog or Earls on here.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

I was kinda getting the same feeling myself.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
I think that conor Murray on the otherhand should be sent back to the AIL to learn how to pass before he ever gets a cap ever again though.

As DOD and Sin will confirm() I've been a big Murray critic but thought he had a cracking game against Fiji.

rodders of course he played well v Fiji he could scratch his hole, make a cup of tea and then pass it because Fiji were so bad it didnt matter.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

No he is not. I don't lose my cool and fling insults around like Boyne does.

Sin é wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

No he is not. I don't lose my cool and fling insults around like Boyne does.

Stupid Boyne, eh Sine???

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Sin é wrote:It was the match report on the Munster website (2005). At that stage, Earls was only a kid and would not have had an agenda to pick him out/not pick him out as the case might be.

Earls was involved in 5 of the tries scored that day. Hard to ignore that. And he was the centre.

Its also hard to ignore that it was an u19 game that was played 7 years ago.

I'm glad you noticed that it ws 7 years ago. Its further proof that Earls was playing centre and regarded as a centre 7 years. The only reason I posted it.


I came across it because I wanted to check how many made it as pros from that age.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:Holy Poopie warthog. you are the leinster Sine

No he is not. I don't lose my cool and fling insults around like Boyne does.

Stupid Boyne, eh Sine???

(though I worry for a few of them - they are going end up with heart attacks as they get so het up).

I do admit, when driven berserk, to losing my cool unintentionally. In fact, I am a divil for it. But trying to improve.

As for being the Leinster Sin E.. I just thought that these questions needed to be asked as no one else seems to be interested in asking them...

I notice that not one answer in defence of ROG or Earls behaving like children have been offered by the unholy alliance of Sin E and his accomplice DoD...

Warthog, it could be argued that this thread is a bit petulant.