Robinson resigns

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3261/2/

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry to hear that, he obviously believe it is best for the team, so good luck to him and hopefully Scotland find a coach that can take them forward.

Eddie 0'Sullivan is already packing his bags for another interview....

Got to hand it to him. Did the honourable thing and didn't hang about till he was pushed.

tigertattie wrote:Got to hand it to him. Did the honourable thing and didn't hang about till he was pushed.

Hope he did not get a pay off!

Poor Heathcoate, talked into picking Scotland by Robinson. He throws him into a very difficult position yesterday and then chucks it the next morning!

Still at least Townsend hopefully can start picking the 10 he wants to rather than the one he is told to.

No offence but I think there is only so far you can take Scottish rugby. They can come up with the occasional big win but that is it. I am not sure that the personnel are there on the field to do any better than they have over the last few years whoever was coach.

Wow. Didn't expect that.

Wales will have him for the 6Ns

I'm hoping the SRU has gotten wind of my master plan. Put lineen into the scotland job. Robbo back to Edinburgh. Bradley sent to work on school rugby.

Will save us the money.

That or get John Jeffries to put some fire back into the international players bellies.

Such high hopes after that promising tour down under. I think the schedule was the wrong way for Scotland. If Tonga had come first and then SA with NZ last it may have been a different story.

In any case, rightly or wrongly, AR has been tainted by the stench of defeat. His selections in particular were never popular and even though he tried to move away from Scotland's traditional forward strengths this autumn, he didn't uncover anything special and lost too much of what had been the source of Scottish victories in the past.

Jake White would be a great coach for Scotland. The man is an innovator and knows how to get the best out of a team by playing a game that brings out those best qualities. Unfortunately I think he is out of the Scotland budget. But he would be the ideal replacement for me.

What are C21 and Crypto going to rant about now?

Seriously, thanks Andy. I'd love to see you back at the Gunners.

doctornickolas wrote:No offence but I think there is only so far you can take Scottish rugby. They can come up with the occasional big win but that is it. I am not sure that the personnel are there on the field to do any better than they have over the last few years whoever was coach.

None taken Dr Nick and I'm sure that you won't be the only person who thinks that.

The reason why it's not correct, however, is that it assumes Robinson has picked the strongest and form players for each of the games under his tenure and put together a game plan that suited the strengths of his players. I cannot even begin to start to tell you in how many of his games that hasn't been true. He has introduced and then dropped players for a year on the basis of a few matches, he has played guys out of position constantly with disasterous consequences and has been far too conservative when confronted with form players that he doesn't know very well - most of them from the western side of the country. His continual loyalty to a rookie coach like Gregor Townend as attack coach long beyond the point where it was a certainty he was contributing nothing was disasterous for the national team's game.

I really like Robinson and it always irked me that he continued to carry with him this reputation of being a passable backs coach, a good forwards coach and an appalling selector. But he has never shaken this for one good reason. It's true.

The new year will see potential riches for a Scotland selector that haven't been available for at least five years (in the backs alone, Visser, Maitland, Bennett, Dunbar, Scott, Horne, Hogg, Fife, Leonard and Farndale). There is genuine talent to be squandered and it would be a crime to continue to do so.

I hope to hell that the SRU bite the bullet, have a complete clear out (our new defence coach has been a disaster in comparison to Steadman) and take on a Super 15 or Top 14 coach that will bring a complete coaching team with them. Someone like Jamie Joseph would be amazing.

But do they have the gumption? This is a pivotal moment for Scottish rugby. They need to be brave. My heart sinks at the prospect that they'll just appoint Lineen (not bad, but we already know his limitations) or Scott Johnson and blame the fact that they cannot buy out the current senior management contracts because they haven't got the money.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Such high hopes after that promising tour down under. I think the schedule was the wrong way for Scotland. If Tonga had come first and then SA with NZ last it may have been a different story.

In any case, rightly or wrongly, AR has been tainted by the stench of defeat. His selections in particular were never popular and even though he tried to move away from Scotland's traditional forward strengths this autumn, he didn't uncover anything special and lost too much of what had been the source of Scottish victories in the past.

Jake White would be a great coach for Scotland. The man is an innovator and knows how to get the best out of a team by playing a game that brings out those best qualities. Unfortunately I think he is out of the Scotland budget. But he would be the ideal replacement for me.

Jake White has other aspirations Kia, he is ogling the Australian job.

Yeah that's a scary proposition but also one I'd like to see at the same time. Look at what he did with the Brumbies. Lord knows what he could do with the talent of the full Wallaby squad.

Scotland might well go for someone home grown but what they really need is someone with innovation for the backs and someone who can add steel in the pack.

Surely Wayne Smith can be convinced?

As has been said previously he should have gone after RWC 11. This is a year too late. Let Lineen have a go and bring back Gary Mercer too - they could not be any worse.

I am actually very sad to see AR go, he did some terrific work with Scotland and he can hold his head high in my opinion. He was a far better coach than Hadden and Williams and we are now blessed with some terrific talent in the pipeline. I hope the new coach is experienced and has a good understanding of what he wants to get out of the team, forwards and backs. I think AR had his limitations and hopefully the next coach will have a good gameplan and be on the ball with selections.

Sad day, but I am not surprised he has decided to resign. Good luck in the future Robbo and thanks for some fantastic wins over Australia and SA

bsando wrote:I am actually very sad to see AR go, he did some terrific work with Scotland and he can hold his head high in my opinion. He was a far better coach than Hadden and Williams and we are now blessed with some terrific talent in the pipeline. I hope the new coach is experienced and has a good understanding of what he wants to get out of the team, forwards and backs. I think AR had his limitations and hopefully the next coach will have a good gameplan and be on the ball with selections.

Sad day, but I am not surprised he has decided to resign. Good luck in the future Robbo and thanks for some fantastic wins over Australia and SA

hear hear!

His failings are well documented on this board, but let us not completely overlook the good work he did. Until yesterday, its hard to argue that he certainly added a harder edge to our pack. We can now reasonably expect a good platform for our backs to play off if the right coach is brought in next. Robinsons record against rugby championship opposition: P 10 W 5. Thats better than any other scottish coach. If you write off the 2 all blacks games as foregone conclusions, its 5 from 8. If you remember the team that Hadden left us with, I genuinely think he has left a better team than he inherited, but he has taken it as far as he can. I respect him for walking before being pushed.

I'm surprised he's resigned. It's not all his fault. I thought he was going to stick it out for longer. On the TV they were saying Scott Johnson will probably be in the post temporarily until they get a new one. They also mentioned Gregor Townsend for the job?

I think this was a long time coming, I almost expected him to quit after the 6Ns. Robinson has always been a good coach, bad selector. I can't help but feel bad for him though as being Scotland coach over the past 4 years must've been extremely testing for him especially after his turgid England reign.

I think he's done well with Scotland and they definitely look better than at the end of Hadden's tenure, we just need someone a bit mad now... Lievremont?

Cari wrote:I'm surprised he's resigned. It's not all his fault. I thought he was going to stick it out for longer. On the TV they were saying Scott Johnson will probably be in the post temporarily until they get a new one. They also mentioned Gregor Townsend for the job?

CARI! Noooooooooooooooooooo.

Micahel Bradley's Scotland. I guarantee an irish paper will have suggested this by next week.

Don't shoot the messenger! That's what some dude on the BBC said! Ah there's probably nothing in it...

That's quite a surprise. Though he left England in similar fashion didnt he?

Scott Johnson in charge?

Oh dear

wales606 wrote:Scott Johnson in charge?

Oh dear

Let's hope we find someone before the 6Ns then!!!

It's a pity he is gone and a bad move for Scotland I think. Just as their team was looking interesting, had sone depth and attacking threats. It's taken a couple of years to get here and to be honest what Scotland has achieved in that time is in line with the players available.

The wins against AUS and SA were good achievements and perhaps created unrealistic expectations. However, one thing for sure the Scotland team were on an upward curve. Results like yesterday happen from time to time and are part of a teams growth.

Well............. something needed to give in Scotland. Not sure about alternatives but Robinson had taken it as far as he was going to. At least there will now be real excitement amongst Scotland supporters about who is next and, more importantly, how is he going to change the team. Given the down swing in fortunes, any mystery about the future is at least an upward swing in hope.

Who'd have believed it? a small ray of hope now shines on the Scottish rugby firmament!
We'll see how long that lasts ; probably as long as it takes for Scott Johnson to be announced caretaker coach for the 6 N's.

That will be pretty bad but if Taylor stays in post as "defence" coach then it is going to be a terrible championship. Taylor seems to share a trait with Robinson: namely the longer he spends with the squad the worse they get!!!!

It was interesting that after both the Boks and Tonga defeats Robbo lambasted our poor defence as a major factor in these losses. Whilst he can be accused of trying to deflect critisism i think, for once, he is correct in his analysis: our defence is extremely poor.

I shall be very wary about what I'll be reading in the press about his successor being appointed. When his honour Mr Franklyn Haddock left, the SRU let rumours abound in the press that they were considering all international comers and the name Rod McQueen was allowed to be bandied about.

Transpired later it was never even in contemplation to try and get someone as great as McQueen.

We can dream of a Henry, McQueen or Joseph but I can taste the bile in my throat at the realisation that it will probably be Johnson. The very best that the SRU can do without any money will be to appoint Lineen, who is great but has limitations that we're well aware of.

Scotland needs a hungry young main coach with good ideas and a defence coach who can stop the inexplicable implosion of what was Scotland's strongest suit only 3 years ago. The SRU are as likely now as at any time in their recent history to be brave enough to find a coach that has been successful at franchise level. But that doesn't mean that they will.

This smacks of jumping before pushed.

If Wales are anything to go by we have a spot to fill while Gatlands away, Howley is clearly incapable. Says it all really if your asking for AR to help RH progress.

Lineen will probably be appointed as caretaker for the 6N, then a new coach in the summer with Johnson and Taylor getting the boot too. Can't see Toonie leaving Glasgow so soon, and as much as Edinburgh fans want rid of Bradley, would you let him near Scotland? I think not.

Eddie has been mentioned and as far as the backs go he would be a revelation for Scotland, his Irish backs were up there with the best and he would do wonders, but he's another conservative coach and not what Scotland need.

Another name I'd put in there is Eric Elwood. He's leaving Connacht at the end of the season and has done absolute wonders with a abysmal budget and youth. Worth a shot methinks?

UMG

Isn't the link road from Galway to Dublin blocked or blown up or something, Connacht just don't have the budget to repair it, infact isn't the only way out of Galway the shed of an airport with Leinster/Munster airline only running in the offseason for players to be moved to where they belong?

Some thoughts on comments above and other misconceptions:

"Sad to see him go" - not in the slightest, had overstayed by a year or more, would have been far better gone after the world cup

"we are now blessed with some terrific talent in the pipeline" - and Robinson gets the credit for this? The talent we have now is certainly better than we had when he took up the position, but I don't see him having done much more with it

"Robinsons record against rugby championship opposition: P 10 W 5. Thats better than any other scottish coach. If you write off the 2 all blacks games as foregone conclusions, its 5 from 8." Why not write off all 10 games against tier 1 SH opposition? Why cherry pick? Look at his record as a whole - worst win ratio of any Scotland coach in the pro era other than the hapless Matt Williams

"Robinson has always been a good coach, bad selector." - disagree, he's a lousy selector and not much good at coaching either. Every time the group of players has spent time with him in the last couple of years, they've gone from ok (England in 6Ns, Aus on southern tour, 3 tries against ABs in AIs) to not very good (Italy in 6Ns, squeaked win against understrength Samoa, arm-wrestled off the park by Tonga). He's not a good coach, the limitations of his tactics and poor gameplan have been there for all to see this last 3 weeks.

"It's a pity he is gone and a bad move for Scotland I think" - que?

"The wins against AUS and SA were good achievements and perhaps created unrealistic expectations" - yes they were good achievements, but let's not forget that the conditions were a significant leveller on each occasion - don't kid ourselves

"Scotland team were on an upward curve" - ranked 8th when Robinson took over in the world, ranked 12th as he leaves - upward? numerically maybe, in ranking terms perhaps if you're standing on your head?

Defence and Attack is a balance... you have to give a little in one if you want to attempt the other with any great ambition.
Being strong in defence 3 years ago was hardly the blueprint for success either. Scotland now loosens up and has more attacking sensibilities and they find that it's tough work trying to do both. Even the ABs don't have perfection in that department...infact, their best defensive technique is an all out attack for as close to 80 minutes as possible!

Ideas are one thing, having the players at your disposal that are rigid enough in defensive duties and fluid enough in attack is easier said than done for mid ranking sides as it's always a balance to be struck and sacrifices made to one to bolster the other.

SecretFly wrote:Defence and Attack is a balance... you have to give a little in one if you want to attempt the other with any great ambition.
Being strong in defence 3 years ago was hardly the blueprint for success either. Scotland now loosens up and has more attacking sensibilities and they find that it's tough work trying to do both. Even the ABs don't have perfection in that department...infact, their best defensive technique is an all out attack for as close to 80 minutes as possible!

Ideas are one thing, having the players at your disposal that are rigid enough in defensive duties and fluid enough in attack is easier said than done for mid ranking sides as it's always a balance to be struck and sacrifices made to one to bolster the other.

Is that true, Fly? I thought the ABs usually finish games on the wrong end of the possession stats - in fact, they are defensively extremely sound, play the most sensible territorial game they can, pile on the pressure when opportunities present in the oppo 22 in attack, and are lethal with turnover ball from anywhere on the park

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Defence and Attack is a balance... you have to give a little in one if you want to attempt the other with any great ambition.
Being strong in defence 3 years ago was hardly the blueprint for success either. Scotland now loosens up and has more attacking sensibilities and they find that it's tough work trying to do both. Even the ABs don't have perfection in that department...infact, their best defensive technique is an all out attack for as close to 80 minutes as possible!

Ideas are one thing, having the players at your disposal that are rigid enough in defensive duties and fluid enough in attack is easier said than done for mid ranking sides as it's always a balance to be struck and sacrifices made to one to bolster the other.

Is that true, Fly? I thought the ABs usually finish games on the wrong end of the possession stats - in fact, they are defensively extremely sound, play the most sensible territorial game they can, pile on the pressure when opportunities present in the oppo 22 in attack, and are lethal with turnover ball from anywhere on the park

People score tries against them. They are not perfect...that was my point. And they HAVE the players that can have both qualities in abundance. That's my point. And I still say their score sheets are cleaner because of the very fact that they are an aggressive and effective attacking side - more of 80 mins in attack means less time needed to defend.

But sides that don't have the leisure of their quality resources cannot genuininely seek to have perfection or even close to it in both departments. You ply one and know you're risking the other in the process. Yes, you're trying to achieve a balance that you can work with but suggesting defence is the issue now is simply saying attack was the issue three years ago. They're both issues and will continue to be for mid ranked rugby sides.

Despite the results I still think Scotland have improved. Robinson, credit to him, tried to change the playing style and balance winning with it too and it just didn't work out well for him. I think we played well against NZ (minus our defence), but I think because of that game Robinson went back to conservatism, and we lost because of it.

I still think he's a good coach, perhaps not a good head coach but he has had a general positive influence on the style of Scottish play on average, despite what the rankings and results suggest. Now we need a coach that's a bit more bold, but not Scott Johnson (please god no) and Matt Taylor should frankly be sacked, he's managed to tear apart our defence more effectively than Joe Rockococko

From another forum:

I remember watching Scotland A overwhelm a strong England A side at Netherdale not 9 months ago. Stuart Hogg and Duncan Weir scythed through the opposition defence again and again and an elderly Borderer next to me muttered "Aye,nobody's told them not to".

- thought it was worth sharing

These are strange times, I find myself in complete agreement with asbo on every point.

I'm not unfamiliar with the limitations of the scottish system and players he's had at his disposal, but he has neither selected nor coached this team particularly well. We are not maximising expectations, and we are not fulfilling our potential. He ought to have left after the world cup.

Hopefully the sru are really planning the search carefully. I don't want another internal appointment.

I demand a recount!!

Oh, and bring out the Messiah

I say from now on they should look to prepare for the 2015 World Cup, it's as close to a home world cup as we're likely to get and not reaching the quarter finals twice in a row could be catastrophic for the game. I say bring in Bennett, Weir, Maitland, Fusaro, Dunbar and Gilchrist, they are hungry young players who haven't been tainted by the Robinson system. I think the SRU should get a coach who's either Scottish, South African or from New Zealand, I'd like to see the following side start against England with instructions to "go for it":

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Brown
7. Fusaro
8. Beattie
9. Blair
10. Weir
11. Maitland
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Visser
15. Hogg

16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Hamilton
20. Denton
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Tonks

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:From another forum:

I remember watching Scotland A overwhelm a strong England A side at Netherdale not 9 months ago. Stuart Hogg and Duncan Weir scythed through the opposition defence again and again and an elderly Borderer next to me muttered "Aye,nobody's told them not to".

- thought it was worth sharing

Was he some sort of rugby spook then? Getting inside information posing as the janitor at murrayfield? Who cares what some elderly boarderer thinks, thats as good as me saying "Aye, thats because they're on steroids". Hear say, nothing more.

Robinson has had worse results than this, and losing to a Islander team is not really a big deal and doesnt really warrant a coach resigning, especially in a meaningless November game. Scotland were really not that bad, they just didn't score points (as usual).

How many times have Scotland done appallingly in the Six Nations where it matters, or even in the World Cup where they were shocking? Barely scrapping past Romaina and Georgia.

I wonder if Robinson had a say in the appointment of Scott Johnson, and whether Robinson has had difficulty in working with his style and the way he likes to play. It's no secret Johnson was involved in the Mike Ruddock problems when we imploded and yet here we are they just start to work together and Robinson is fleeing for the door. Maybe Johnson just got used to being in charge at the Ospreys and had difficulty in dropping back down to a skills coach again.

Something is not right here, in my opinion.

123456789 wrote:I say from now on they should look to prepare for the 2015 World Cup, it's as close to a home world cup as we're likely to get and not reaching the quarter finals twice in a row could be catastrophic for the game. I say bring in Bennett, Weir, Maitland, Fusaro, Dunbar and Gilchrist, they are hungry young players who haven't been tainted by the Robinson system. I think the SRU should get a coach who's either Scottish, South African or from New Zealand, I'd like to see the following side start against England with instructions to "go for it":

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Brown
7. Fusaro
8. Beattie
9. Blair
10. Weir
11. Maitland
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Visser
15. Hogg

16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Hamilton
20. Denton
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Tonks

Shows what a job a new coach is when his best option at 13 has played one game of pro Rugby before!

Denton and Rennie would still be in my backrow. At 6 it has to be Kelly Brown, if Brown is not at 6 then he should not play.

Dunbar has been pretty average this season, granted he has been playing at 13.

As people will know I am Glasgow through and though, but when it became clear that the likes of Murchie and Seymour were close to selection, I started to think we we were struggling. Not saying they are poor players but in all honesty so far the have shown to he no more than promising Pro 12 players.

Shifty wrote:Robinson has had worse results than this, and losing to a Islander team is not really a big deal and doesnt really warrant a coach resigning, especially in a meaningless November game. Scotland were really not that bad, they just didn't score points (as usual).

How many times have Scotland done appallingly in the Six Nations where it matters, or even in the World Cup where they were shocking? Barely scrapping past Romaina and Georgia.

I wonder if Robinson had a say in the appointment of Scott Johnson, and whether Robinson has had difficulty in working with his style and the way he likes to play. It's no secret Johnson was involved in the Mike Ruddock problems when we imploded and yet here we are they just start to work together and Robinson is fleeing for the door. Maybe Johnson just got used to being in charge at the Ospreys and had difficulty in dropping back down to a skills coach again.

Something is not right here, in my opinion.

Out of interest which of Robinsons losses was worse han losing at home to the 12th ranked team in the world.

Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself, but I've started the inevitable here:
https://www.606v2.com/t37714-who-should-replace-andy-robinson-part-1

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Out of interest which of Robinsons losses was worse han losing at home to the 12th ranked team in the world.

In the context of being meaningful games and performance wise, I'd say last years 6 Nations defeat to Italy is worse. the inept world cup games against Romaina and Georgia in the World Cup. The 24-6 home defeat by Wales in 2011 was also terrible Wales were useless and had wrapped the game up within the first few minutes and barely got out of first gear yet won easily.

Tonga recently beat France and pushed Italy very close so I don't see why this loss is such a massive shock to Scotland. Wales regularly lose to Pacific Island teams yet beat Scotland regularly. I just don't get how this has had such massive repucusions in the Scottish games when worse defeats in important games has seen Robinson simply shrug it off.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

123456789 wrote:I say from now on they should look to prepare for the 2015 World Cup, it's as close to a home world cup as we're likely to get and not reaching the quarter finals twice in a row could be catastrophic for the game. I say bring in Bennett, Weir, Maitland, Fusaro, Dunbar and Gilchrist, they are hungry young players who haven't been tainted by the Robinson system. I think the SRU should get a coach who's either Scottish, South African or from New Zealand, I'd like to see the following side start against England with instructions to "go for it":

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Brown
7. Fusaro
8. Beattie
9. Blair
10. Weir
11. Maitland
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Visser
15. Hogg

16. Welsh
17. MacArthur
18. Low
19. Hamilton
20. Denton
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Tonks

Shows what a job a new coach is when his best option at 13 has played one game of pro Rugby before!

Denton and Rennie would still be in my backrow. At 6 it has to be Kelly Brown, if Brown is not at 6 then he should not play.

Dunbar has been pretty average this season, granted he has been playing at 13.

As people will know I am Glasgow through and though, but when it became clear that the likes of Murchie and Seymour were close to selection, I started to think we we were struggling. Not saying they are poor players but in all honesty so far the have shown to he no more than promising Pro 12 players.

Finally some sense. Numbers' selection is even more bonkers that some of Robinson's!

Shifty wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Out of interest which of Robinsons losses was worse han losing at home to the 12th ranked team in the world.

In the context of being meaningful games and performance wise, I'd say last years 6 Nations defeat to Italy is worse. the inept world cup games against Romaina and Georgia in the World Cup. The 24-6 home defeat by Wales in 2011 was also terrible Wales were useless and had wrapped the game up within the first few minutes and barely got out of first gear yet won easily.

Tonga recently beat France and pushed Italy very close so I don't see why this loss is such a massive shock to Scotland. Wales regularly lose to Pacific Island teams yet beat Scotland regularly. I just don't get how this has had such massive repucusions in the Scottish games when worse defeats in important games has seen Robinson simply shrug it off.

It's not a shock that we lost but its still our worst loss during his time. Our performance was absymul yesterday and a number of the players should be ashamed of themselves.

However they won't most all have cushy contracts on good money where they are rewarded for the odd good run of results here and there. For the future of the game it's important that we have the right man charge of the national team, but in my opinion getting the right people in charge of youth rugby is even more important as its the next generation of players (mixed with the odd import) who are going to have to drag Scotland back to a competive level as I think the current crop are not up to it!!

Some folk come up with barmy ideas.

Wanting to develope a team for 2015 and you've got Blair at 9. Most odd

And why does everyone go on about Hogg? He is not that good. He has had one flash of brilliance for scotland but that was an age ago. Since then he has been crap in attack. Always taking it into contact. His defence is terrible. Can't cover tackle and his positioning is poor.