Manu Tuilagi- the real difference between the two sides

Surprising how little praise is being heaped on Tuilagi for the England result. In what probably ranks up there with THE best single individual back effort against an All Black side strangely not a lot being said his way.

He single handled proved the difference in all 3 tries at the crucial period- highlighted by the swans try by running inside Nonus line to shove Carter off with a fend then leave Nonu, McCaw and Aaron Smith falling off him.

Sure others played their part- Farrells goalkicking and other bits and pieces, the forwards etc. But the real difference, at 15-14 came in a 10 minute burst from Tuilagi. I specifically questioned him before the match several times as I saw him as the key to Englands chances in the backs. I summarised that he wouldnt be up to it, and have been proven completely wrong.

Easily the best individual display from a back against the ABs I can recall- ever.

Just to add...I rewatched the match and at 15-14 after the second of the two All Black tries I asked two questions:

If Tuilagi had left he field at 15-14,

1 Would England have won by the margin they did?

Definitely not.

2 Would England have won at all

Possible, but given the ABs had gained the momentum at that point, probably not. What England did in a whole half without a lot from Tuilagi the AB's all but made up for in a few minutes.

Said all year this game needs line breakers to make the difference- and thats what happened today.
Its all conjecture but in going forward England can not ignore the impact Tuilagi had on this match.

Thought they gave him a fair "big up" on Tv One news tonight whilst making the point 5 of his brother have played for Samoa.

Yes thats why I mentioned it. He's a lot to thank his brothers for, following him there as a youngster while they pioneered the family pro careers ahead of him. Alesena and co would undoubtedly have been influencing his attitude today.

Players like this are gold in todays possession/ territory based gameplans. Linebreakers bust matches open, thats a huge part of the AB success. Habana, Manu, Beale.Tthose types can clinch victory from nothing.

Yes you're right for sure If only Scotland could fine one, maybe Maitland eh ?

Rangiora wrote:Yes you're right for sure If only Scotland could fine one, maybe Maitland eh ?

Unfortunately no Rangiora . Maitlands really a happy day player in my opinion. Very good at finishing and speed to burn. But essentially he needs a team going forward and wouldnt be classed as a linebreaker at all at even sxv level, let alone test level. Would you agree with that having been nearer to the play down there than me?

...of course...unless you were joking?

Taylorman wrote:...of course...unless you were joking?

Tongue was severely in cheek but hopefully shows how far Scotland are from finding a true line breaker Something I'm going to be closer at observing as after 5.5 wonderful years here heading back to UK to spend time with grand kids. Sure am going to miss game nights in Christchurch but at least will get good coverage of SVX

Youre leaving us for good or for the holidays?

Tuilagi had his best day in an England shirt for sure, but the real difference was the England pack. They beat the NZ pack. That was the best performance from an England pack for 10 years.

Taylorman wrote:Youre leaving us for good or for the holidays?

Alas as at this stage it looks like for good but aiming to come back for long extended holidays once retired

The pack set the groundwork I agree, but Manu made the difference- that difference was what has been missing from Englands last 3 matches. Packs beat up packs all day but 2 of Manus breaks had nothing to do with the pack other than winning the ball.

Manu took on the AB line directly and ran through it- the pack didnt. The ABs were on attack and Manu intercepted- the pack didnt. As much as we like to credit the pack, sometimes we overlook the obvious. If Manu didnt do what he did, England would likely have repeated last weeks effort.

In today's matches the pack will get you so far. We see it all the time- packs zero-ing out eachother. This time credit for the 'difference' must go to the linebreaker.

Rangiora wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Youre leaving us for good or for the holidays?

Alas as at this stage it looks like for good but aiming to come back for long extended holidays once retired

Did you see NZs got talentfinal tonight- amazingly we actually do have some talent- young as well.

And great to finally see Ali Campbell the judge finally get up and sing. True legend from his UB40 days. Been waiting the whole series to see him sing.

Oh and theres a good rugby movie on Maori at the moment, Been on before but hard case seeing the yanks doing a haka...

Tuilagi did everything right yesterday, man's an animal! That's what room sharing with Burns does!

Taylorman wrote:

Rangiora wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Youre leaving us for good or for the holidays?

Alas as at this stage it looks like for good but aiming to come back for long extended holidays once retired

Did you see NZs got talentfinal tonight- amazingly we actually do have some talent- young as well.

And great to finally see Ali Campbell the judge finally get up and sing. True legend from his UB40 days. Been waiting the whole series to see him sing.

Yes a very worthy winner and loved the top three doing the Kimbra song. On the UB 40 front , (sorry way off topic I know but given the recent events on here , bare with ) they were given their break by Chrissie Hynde who used to drink in my local pub back in the UK whilst waiting for their break. 2 shades of separation and all that eh?

EnglishReign wrote:Tuilagi did everything right yesterday, man's an animal! That's what room sharing with Burns does!

Just watched the second half again. Fantastic match wasnt it. The urgency of every English player really comes through. Nothing panicky, just full on effort from them all. Good to see. To be honest I havnt seen that many holes or missed tackles from an AB side in one half like this one. They were always playing catch up and losing badly. Conrad Smith was awful.

Tuilagi had a great game yesterday, but he was able to do so because of a team performance that pulled NZ out of shape and created enough space for him to have half-gaps to aim at rather than men. Also, he made far better choices in his passing and offloading than I've seen from him before. In the previous two matches he tried the same lines but got gang tackled and repeatedly failed to pass.

Manu is a powerful weapon, but too often in the past he's been a blunt instrument. Yesterday showed how effective he can be, but now he and England need to consolidate and learn to play like that consistently

Poorfour wrote:Tuilagi had a great game yesterday, but he was able to do so because of a team performance that pulled NZ out of shape and created enough space for him to have half-gaps to aim at rather than men. Also, he made far better choices in his passing and offloading than I've seen from him before. In the previous two matches he tried the same lines but got gang tackled and repeatedly failed to pass.

Manu is a powerful weapon, but too often in the past he's been a blunt instrument. Yesterday showed how effective he can be, but now he and England need to consolidate and learn to play like that consistently

Yes, being a carefree Samoan he'll be prone to moments of brilliance then completely the opposite. They generally play off instinct and he'll go through ups and downs probably his whole career. But that brings unpredictability and in todays game thats a vital weapon to have- to keep the other side guessing. If theres one thing about a couple of the NH sides, its predictability. Today was a breath of fresh air.

Tuilagi was very impressive individually, but I think England also used him better than they have done in other games. He was given the ball on the hoof and in a little bit of space, he is deadly in those situations.

He also showed that he can pass! Quite well at that!

EDIT: Ooops, I appear to have just written what Pourfour has written, only in a much less articulate manner.

Tuilagi is hard to stop when he has momentum but there are plenty of big men running straight that are hard to stop in world rugby. The real difference between the sides was that England made their tackles and NZ (uncharacteristically) didn't make theirs.

Ermm. OP

our forwards were banging into N|Z and reeling them back- the yards we were gaining from running through them was the differnce- we killed them physically and in the break down. But you are right Manu was awesome!

The thing is you can't quantify the shift put in by the forwards in the way you can Tuilagi's. He was astonishing for 10 minutes, and we might not even have won without him. Equally, though, given how dangerous the ABs looked when we allowed them quick ball in our 22, I would say that the breakdown and tackling work of Launchbury, Wood, Robshaw etc probably saved us just as many tries by denying the ABs that platform for 65 minutes.

thomh wrote:The thing is you can't quantify the shift put in by the forwards in the way you can Tuilagi's. He was astonishing for 10 minutes, and we might not even have won without him. Equally, though, given how dangerous the ABs looked when we allowed them quick ball in our 22, I would say that the breakdown and tackling work of Launchbury, Wood, Robshaw etc probably saved us just as many tries by denying the ABs that platform for 65 minutes.

I think this is very true. Manu made the difference, but having a pack gain a little over parity (nowhere near as much as some have said I don't think) made a big difference. For once a team said 'If you're going to defend the ruck with one man, we'll smash it up through the middle' - Normally it doesn't work but we somehow managed to drive in bunches AND have enough guys left to clear McCaw et al off the ball at the ensuing breakdown.

I also thought we cleared out more effectively, with Clancy giving us just enough time. Normally I'd want us to mimic the ABs and drive way past the tackled player, but actually, for once, it seemed our sideways clearing out/Judo throw really worked. Not sure why, i'll have to watch again.

Anyway, i digress. Manu was the difference, but Barritt's try for example was more about his reputation and Smith bricking it to rush up on him, created the gap and we were away. Did anyone follow his tussle with Savea when he came off his wing? Talk about world's colliding. First one Savea had a head of steam and bounced him off, i couldn't believe it! The he tried to jink inside him and Tuilagi bundled him back. great tussle.

Some players bring their best against the biggest challenges. Tullagi is one of those, hehas no fear. Think back to his first senior game for tigers when he was still an academy school kid...south Africa then world and tri champions. He stood up and stood out in a winning performance. Went to the world cup in his first proper Season as a first team club player and was one of the few to look like he belonged there. There's a lot of players who look good in the Jeff or on the training park. Not all of them bring their best in the toughest games. Farrell another who has that

The england pack, (with a special mention to Tom Wood), the real difference between the two sides

Taylorman wrote:Surprising how little praise is being heaped on Tuilagi for the England result. In what probably ranks up there with THE best single individual back effort against an All Black side.........

Wow, mate. That's a hell of a statement! He really played great, and to me, his best in an England jersey. And that was an awesome ten minute burst in the second half. He clearly changed the match.

I do agree that a lot of the hard work had been done earlier in the match. I don't like an individual award such as Man of the Match for such a team sport like Rugby, but it showed how much of the platform was laid by players like Tom Wood and the othe forwards. The right to go wide.

Now I really wanted to do a post on this but decided not to as I thought it may offend some English fans, ie suggesting England wouldn't be England without Tuilagi. He is a machine and has to be in the Lions in my opinion. He has been crucial in several wins for England over the the last few years and when ever he gets the ball you expect him to break a tackle or gain good ground.

Manu was good again, and did what he does best, I like watching him play these days and he deserves the praise upon him, but he still has weaknesses to iron out and in reality the match was one up front, the tight 5 of England were dominant and the kiwi pack not at the races at all, neither were a few backs either mind!!

Just been rewatching the game, at the beginning yesterday I noticed Tuilagi's response to the Haka, and thought he looked pretty up for it, just giving a shake of his head and a smile. I thought he looked up for it at the time, how right I was

bambamwillis wrote:Just been rewatching the game, at the beginning yesterday I noticed Tuilagi's response to the Haka, and thought he looked pretty up for it, just giving a shake of his head and a smile. I thought he looked up for it at the time, how right I was

Agree. He really dug the Haka. Enjoyed it. Then went out and played Rugby. As it should be.

Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

drsambo1928 wrote:Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

No reason why they can't play together.

drsambo1928 wrote:Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

Did they? Tuilagi has been touted as a Lion for a long time.

Morgannwg wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

Did they? Tuilagi has been touted as a Lion for a long time.

Have you not been over to various threads where you can put down your Lions XV. Every time I put down Manu I was attacked by Davies' lovers and by people who thought I was lacking in a fully functional brain. Nothing wrong with Davies, but Manu is better, both should go down to Australia though.

drsambo1928 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

Did they? Tuilagi has been touted as a Lion for a long time.

Have you not been over to various threads where you can put down your Lions XV. Every time I put down Manu I was attacked by Davies' lovers and by people who thought I was lacking in a fully functional brain. Nothing wrong with Manu, but Davies is better, both should go down to Australia though.

Fixed.

Oh shizzle, Mr Taff, well done, but you know your wrong.

I thought Brown was outstanding today aswell...

Davies is a role model whereas Manu likes to jump of boats. I know who i would rather start for the Lions.

so you want role models then yeah.. id rather my role models were good at there sport tbh !

I don't really care who is a role model, i mean what difference does that make. Just because he jumped off a boat you don't think he should play despite the fact he is the better player. You pick the players who can win you the match, not the best role model, I'm not even sure if you are being serious to be honest. Maybe I don't have a properly functioning brain to realize sarcasm, so help me out here, buddy

drsambo1928 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

drsambo1928 wrote:Lions is beaconing for Manu, and right fully so after everyone dismissed him for Jonathon Davies

Did they? Tuilagi has been touted as a Lion for a long time.

Have you not been over to various threads where you can put down your Lions XV. Every time I put down Manu I was attacked by Davies' lovers and by people who thought I was lacking in a fully functional brain. Nothing wrong with Davies, but Manu is better, both should go down to Australia though.

Link? I never seen anyone attack the thought of Tuilagi going. You can't accuse the Welsh of doing that as most of what I saw had Roberts at 12 with Tuilagi at 13. I think Roberts has played himself out of contention now though. I do think Davies is slightly better, but yes both should go.

people jump of boats - its what they do anyway!

it was a stag do what do you expect!

Wow Morgannwg, I wasn't accusing any Welsh person of doing that, some who didn't like manu starting weren't huge Davies fans but would have just preferred Davies there instead. I mean you don't have to be from the country to be a fan of a player, I am an enormous fan of Manu but I'm not from England, eh, or Samoa for that matter, but regardless, I still am a huge fan of his.

mystiroakey wrote:people jump of boats - its what they do anyway!

it was a stag do what do you expect!

His 'antics' showed a lack of personal and national pride. No player should be celebrating getting knocked out in the fashion they did.

Manu is as english as they come.. He learnt his rugby here and we gave him a great chance!!- imagine the tuilagis didnt move to the UK anyway- Manu would be in the kiwi team at present

and he will be a brilliant lion

mr taff he celebrated his mates marriage - just because they lost doesnt mean they cant have a party!

The pack were the difference. Barritt and Tuilagi made breaks against a stretched defense after the England pack sucked them in. England are a more powerful team and they used that against the ABs.

doctor_grey wrote:

bambamwillis wrote:Just been rewatching the game, at the beginning yesterday I noticed Tuilagi's response to the Haka, and thought he looked pretty up for it, just giving a shake of his head and a smile. I thought he looked up for it at the time, how right I was

Agree. He really dug the Haka. Enjoyed it. Then went out and played Rugby. As it should be.

I also noticed his response to the Haka and I clearly read is body language as saying: "Bring it on. This is what I've been waiting for".

That was when I thought England could do it.

Yet another reason to bring Manu to Australia. He fears no other player and will hit everyone just as hard, regardless of reputation.

To badly paraphrase the old saying:
"Forwards win a game, 'Manu' decides by how many."

Seemed applicable in this match.