Calzaghe versus Conteh - your chance to call it

Ayup, chaps. A weekend of Christmas shopping with the ol' ball and chain (sorry, I meant girlfriend!) lies ahead so, as this may be my last chance for a while, let's talk some boxing.

John Conteh and Joe Calzaghe. The first one of the great underachievers of the ring, the other possibly an overachiever, even if that term doesn't always sit well with me, or make the most sense. Conteh a big, genuine Light-Heavyweight, Calzaghe a career Super-Middleweight but, crucially, a pretty big one too who, by outworking Bernard Hopkins in 2008, hinted that he may well have had the capacity to be a reasonable Light-Heavy himself had he dipped his toes in the division earlier.

I've watched Conteh's demolition job on the highly-ranked and rated American Len Hutchins a couple of times this year, and afterwards there is a small feature recorded in, I believe, 2006 in which a couple of pundits (Duke McKenzie included, although I accept that my use of the word 'pundit' was a wee bit liberal, there!) were posed the question of what they thought would have happened had Conteh and Calzaghe ever collided.

So let's imagine, for just a second, that Conteh's reign as WBC Light-Heavyweight kingpin had fallen somewhere between Calzaghe lifting his WBO Super-Middleweight belt in 1997 and then, a full decade later, outscoring Mikkel Kessler to complete his clean sweep. Now imagine that, after taking care of all business at 168 lb, Calzaghe set his sights on Conteh's Light-Heavyweight belt. How do you see the fight going?

I think the blend of styles makes this a potential classic of the British ring; Conteh the efficent, clean puncher, Calzaghe the buzzsaw, quantity-based one. Conteh an orthodox fighter who boxed frm a stance which you could find in a puglism textbook, Calzaghe the southpaw with a sometimes ungainly, but always effective style of his own.

What's more, both shared the odd weakness which played to a strength of the other; not dissimilar to Joe Louis, Conteh had an ever-so-slight tendancy to drop the left straight after jabbing with it, leaving him open to the odd right hand through the guard (see the first fight with Chris Finnegan, a superb tussle in itself). Calzaghe's right hand lead, which was a risky punch in itself but was also one which he was able to get away with throwing due to his speed, could take advantage of this. Likewise, Calzaghe seemd to take an inordinate amount of left hands compared to rights. Conteh, owner of one of the best left hands in boxing during his pomp, would have been licking his lips in anticipation of the chance to exploit this, given how he was able to left hook Hutchins all over the ring for three rounds before finishing off the American with that exact same punch in great style.

The edge in speed goes to Calzaghe, whereas the ege in timing rests with Conteh. Conventional wisdom tells us that, in most cases, speed takes the first few rounds or the major share of them when these two elements meet head on, and I'd agree that this may well be the case here, with Calzaghe getting the better of the opening rounds. Conteh, as demonstrated in that aforementioned bout with Finnegan, could be a slow burner and I think he'd need a few rounds to have a look at Calzaghe and get to grips with that all-action style.

However, for all of his hard hitting and, at times, downright nasty fouling, it's easy to forget that Conteh boasted a fine boxing brain. He was also a very proficient counter-puncher. With Conteh's added advantage of being the naturally bigger and heavier man it's not unreasonable to suggest that, in the clinches and with his body attack (something Calzaghe perhaps lacked to a certiain degree), he could take a few miles per hour out of Calzaghe's whirlwind attacks, forcing the Welshman to be a little more selective in what he throws as the fight wars on.

If that's the case, then Calzaghe might struggle in the late stages; if a stand off develops (and it would be likely, as both men liked to hold the centreof the ring) then we know who is going to lose their patience and take a swat first - Calzaghe. I see Conteh being able to take advantage of this with his superior timing - Calzaghe had a very good chin but, nonetheless, he could be tagged and hurt, which tended to force him on to the back foot, a position where he just never looked comfortable. Even if Calzaghe's attack can remain relentless, I always thought it was a little repetitive, too; Conteh, who had an unfalppable coolness in his boxing when he was in the zone, would slowly but surely pick up on this and plot the perfect route for his sharp counters and jolting jab as the fight wore on.

So, what's your take? Personally, I like Conteh in this one. Has the antidote to almost everything Calzaghe has in his arsenal, was that little bit more adaptable for my money and, crucially, may just be a bit too big and robust at 175 lb. I mean, let's be frank - the man was a brute when he wanted to be. I think Calzaghe's heart, awkwardness and the fact that Conteh doesn't start landing at will until the advanced stages of the bout keep him there until the end, however.

A three, perhaps four point margin in favour of the Liverpudlian over twelve, and a little bit wider over fifteen is how I'd see it.

Your thoughts, if anyone's interested? Thanks, lads.

Great fight, and I'm assuming that both have found the antidote to the chronic hand troubles from which each suffered throughout his career, Chris?

Underachiever or not, up to and including the Hutchins fight, Conteh was one of the most ruthless, talented, plain nasty men inside the ring that we've ever produced. He didn't care at all where his head went; if he saw a cut, he made damn sure that he made it worse, and he simply overwhelmed good boxers with better boxing and good fighters by being tougher and nastier than them.

Now Calzaghe could box, of course, and his hand speed and volume of punching would be greater than Conteh had ever faced. However, the Scouser is a converted heavyweight, not a climbing 168 pounder, and is almost balletically light on his feet. Eventually, Conteh's superior strength and equal ability forces this fight into the trenches, where there is only one winner. Look how Conteh turned the tide of contests with Finnegan and Ahumada as the fights wore on; over twelve, I believe Conteh overcomes a slight points deficit to win a decision going away. Over 15, such is his incessant pressure that I think the referee might jump in to save Calzaghe from a real hiding. Conteh TKO 14.

Good thread Chris and a fight I have never really contemplated before, like you think I would have to go with Conteh, one of the rings genuine wasted talents. Whilst a win at the time over Hopkins looks better with age I cannot get the image of Joe hitting the deck in his two forays into the light heavyweight division, particularly when one considers the first was against Hopkins who had never been an especially spiteful puncher and the other was against Jones who was little more than a shell when he dumped Joe on his rear.

Appreciate there is an argument to say both of these were of the flash variety and came early doors when Joe may have been a little cold but they do not auger well for how he gets on with a genuine light heavy who was not without a dig which Conteh most certainly was. Whilst I would fall short of predicting Conteh stops him early he could definitely get him in the sort of trouble that would take a few rounds to recover from and being four or five points down after the same number of rounds is no place you want to find yourself.

The other thing which has me leaning towards John is Joe was not without an ability to get dragged into an ugly or dirty fight, almost come a cropper doing this against Reid and never really found a way to do much clean work against Starie, is one thing doing it against supermiddles of a certain level of ability quite another doing it against a natural light heavy so well versed in the dark arts.

Perhaps unfair on Joe and he did have a tendency to find a way to win but I struggle to see him doing so in this one. Will be busy enough to nick rounds but I have to go with Conteh be it over 12 or 15.

Not a great deal of difference in our analysis of this one then, captain, aside from my thoughts that Conteh might have to settle for a points win even over the longer course. Thanks for contributing.

As I alluded to in the article, I love that first fight he had with Finnegan, while the Hutchins fight was a scary demonstration of what Conteh was capable of (both the good and the bad, of course) when he really had it in for his opponent. I've not actually seen the Ahumada fight up until now, but I'll have to check it out as soon as I can.

Great post by yourself too, Jeff.

Cheers Chris, thought i'd get in before it was gordified, am quite excited to see how he shoe horns Lewis into it, to my mind it is not possible but I suspect I underestimate the mans ingenuity.

Yea Conte would probably take the win by nature of being the light heavyweight and that Calzaghe only had 2 fights there against 2 past it fighters who enjoyed their best years at middleweight yet still dropped him

Would be competitive obviously, and Calzaghe could well outwork John but I think Conte would make it his fight to win a decision or even get a stoppage

Joe's struggles with fighters as dirty as Bika and Kabary Salem indicate what a rough evening he's in for here. Conteh is as rough and ornery as either, but three times as talented, and at his peak, he's a horrible opponent for almost any 175 pounder who ever lived, let alone a natural super-middle with two light-heavyweight contests to his name.

Looks like we're all a little too agreed to make this much of a debate then, lads!

Could really do with Steffan signing in...

Not seen much of Conteh but anyone described as dirtier than Bika must be something special when it comes to bending the rules.

I think a bit too much is made of the knockdowns Calzaghe took at light heavyweight. The Hopkins one was a flash knockdown in his first fight at the weight and against Jones he was hurt a bit but it was Jones forearm that smashed him in the face not the glove so I imagine that added a bit of juice to the punch. Also Calzaghes advancing years could have took something away from his chin, we'll not know what he would have been like had he moved north of 168 in his prime.

Aye, bellchees. I tend to think that Calzaghe being decked in those final two fights is more just a reflection of his advancing years and his engine by then taking a little longer to get going as a result of that, rather than being an indication that he didn't belong at 175 lb.

I think Calzaghe could well have been a good Light-Heavyweight in his own right, although had he stepped up in weight earlier his career would probably have still been just as frustrating; Michalczewski would have played hard ball over travelling and, as Calzaghe himelf said, the only way he'd get in the ring with Jones prior to Roy's fall from grace would be if they paid him "the crown jewells" to do so.

"Capable of being as dirty as Bika", I would say, rather than necessarily dirtier than that spectacular rule-bender. The difference is that without his tendency to ignore the rules, Bika is a pretty ordinary fighter. Conteh could do it all.

I'm not sure how many of Conteh's fights are up on youtube in their entirety at the moment, but at one point, you could see every one of his title bouts. Chris has already mentioned the Hutchins fight, where Conteh overwhelmed his respected opponent with a combination of technical mastery and underhand tricks. However, it's his first defence of his world title, against Lonnie Bennett, where we see him at his absolute best, for me. Bennett was a really dangerous hitter and Conteh never let him settle from the off. As usual, he managed to open up a cut on his opponent, with punches on this occasion, and he proceeded to worsen the injury with a succession of hurtful, savagely accurate blows. Bennett was hauled out after five and looked as though he'd been in a road accident. That night, Conteh was as good a light-heavyweight as you could ever wish to see.

Rowley wrote:Cheers Chris, thought i'd get in before it was gordified, am quite excited to see how he shoe horns Lewis into it, to my mind it is not possible but I suspect I underestimate the mans ingenuity.

I'll save the WUM the bother.

What people that don't understand boxing need to realise is that Calzaghe said he could beat a Klitschko and even though this is the worst era for heavyweights of all time, the Klitschko's (who are brothers) are bigger than Conteh and although Conteh would be heavyweight champion if he were around now, the fact that Calzaghe said he would beat a Klitschko proves that he would beat Conteh. If Lewis was around he would beat them all though, especially Conteh, because Calzaghe said he would beat a Klitschko. I mean, look at what Lewis did to Tyson.

Sorry, chris - fine article and pretty much agree that Conteh's size, strength and no little ability are a step too far for Calzaghe. Fine idea in principle to look at all time great Brits in and around the same weight divisions and it would be great to see someone present a case for Calzaghe.

I'd like to throw Jock McAvoy into the mix, a really fine British middleweight/light-heavy. McAvoy-Conteh or McAvoy-Calzaghe might be interesting fights to sort out.

Calzaghe vs Conteh and he calls it for Conteh, what a surprise!

"Calzaghe had a very good chin but, nonetheless, he could be tagged and hurt, which tended to force him on to the back foot, a position where he just never looked comfortable."
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However, just to try and drag the debate along for at least another minute or two, when decked by Byron Mitchell, Calzaghe went into all out attack mode and completely overwhelmed his man forcing the stoppage. Whilst it mayb not have been his natural reaction to being tagged it does suggest there's a possibility that Calzaghe might up his game somewhat when faced with the better fighters/danger men.

Given the way he upped his game against the likes of Lacy and Kessler, would it be too much to suggest that he'd do the same against Conteh and make it a somewhat closer fight than many are suggesting?

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd like to throw Jock McAvoy into the mix, a really fine British middleweight/light-heavy. McAvoy-Conteh or McAvoy-Calzaghe might be interesting fights to sort out.

Remember some time ago I was going to do a war of the roses series, pitching Yorkshire fighters against them lot across the pennines, remember Windy put forward McAvoy for the red rose lot, believe it was going to be him against Bomber Graham, may be a series to revisit at some point.

Can't see you being biased towards us fine and perfect Yorkshire folk in any way, shape or form, Rowley.

For the record I will go first and say I found your "Dale Robinson KO's Conteh inside 4 rounds" to be a remarkabley well written piece

It was my inability to be anything other than hugely biased that stopped me writing it Dave, although now Flintoff has turned pro may have him representing Lancashire at heavy, him against Bruce Woodcock is one for the ages.

I thought it was a straight up Calzaghe UD or Conteh KO. I agree that Conteh was a big LH and a serious hitter with it - But Calzaghe always showed that if he got into trouble he stepped it up a gear and overwhelmed his opponents. If you add that neither of them have hand problems then Calzaghe also has a serious dig - not enough to hurt conteh but more than enough to make him think. Wouldn't be like that limp wristed performance against Hopkins. As everyone above has done a 12 and 15 round prediction - I'd say Calzaghe UD 12 and Conteh Ko 13/14. A little like Chavez - Taylor With Calaghe staying a little more on the outside than young Meldrick.

Jeff, I'd love to read your commentary on the Roses battle of the incompetent heavyweights, featuring Brian London and Richard Dunn. Which ungainly haymaker lands first? Who avoids tripping over the other's feet?

Wasnt richard dunn the only guy who manage to irritate Bugner? Then got annihilated or am I mixing him up with someone else? I always thought Eubank was a slightly more personable Bugner

Guiness book of Records 1980 shows Dunn spreadeagled on the canvas having been KO'd by Bugner in the first This implies he may have annoyed Joe somewhat. Which when coupled with Richard's questionable boxing skills does tend to suggest it was erring on the side of stupidity.

Still, he did get a Sport's Centre named after him in Bradford. Wouldn't see Junior Witter getting one.

Spot on, Shah. Dunn did something to rile Bugner, who massacred the Yorkshireman in a couple of minutes. I remember Harry Carpenter describing the shattering finishing right hand as "one of the very few blows Bugner ever threw in anger".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-_OMnt3YUs I think they should have employed people to pretend to be in the other camp and hurl insults at his wife and mother. I imagine Cooper wouldn't have seen the fourth round.

Conteh beats Joe up and stops him in around 6-8 rounds he was just too big and powerful for Calzaghe to deal with.

Conteh was decent, but not in Calzaghe's league not by a long way.

Conteh was around in the times of 'same day weigh ins', he wouldn't have been a big LH today, and was probably around the same ring weight as Calzaghe.

Hogey - I remember a similar thing being said in the run up to Calzaghe vs Lacy & we all know what happened in that one.

Granted Lacy was no where near as good as Conteh nor did he have any of the boxing skills which Conteh could utilise. However people assumed that size & power alone would win through that night.

For me this would be a cracker of a fight and a real pick em. I don't think you could really say one has the beating of the other every single time & as has been mentioned a lot would come down to whether it was a 12 or 15 rounder.

For me, over 12 Rounds Calzaghe wins more often than not.

88chris05 - One point you made in your post was that it was a case of a quantity vs quality fight...whilst I do agree that Conteh was probably a little more accurate with his punches I think people often overlook the precision of Calzaghe especially prior to the hand injuries. If you take a look at any of his fights against the likes of Eubank, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer you can appreciate that the guy was very precise himself.

Following the hand troubles he did begin to throw a lot more with less accuracy...I think the reasoning behind it was it was a way to keep fighters at bay & help him win rounds given that he couldn't do it with power anymore.

The key as you allude to is whether Calzaghe can evade being caught clean with that left hook of Conteh. He was open to it yet even then if you think back i'm not sure one could point to any moment where he was really hurt by it during his career. He certainly had a chin so i'm not sure Conteh would have knocked him clean out.

A big factor also for me is that Joe was barely ever marked up let alone cut...so i wouldn't be to sure that Conteh could open him up and then target it (unless of course he was able to get away with some of those underhand tactics).

John could be prone to a slow start and I think that in a fight between the two he would most likely be 4 or 5 rounds down by the mid way point. Whilst I would expect Conteh to come on strong during the 2nd half of the fight I think Calzaghe would have enough about him to knick a couple of 10-10 rounds somewhere along the line which would be enough to see him over the line.

Obviously John is by far the bigger man but Calzaghe had a good enough engine to pull bursts of success out even if he is slowing in the latter stages of a fight between them.

Calzaghe to win over 12 by 2 or 3 Rounds whilst maybe being dropped somewhere along the way.

Over 15 Rounds however I think it's advantage to Conteh & he wins just slightly more often than Calzaghe.

owen10ozzy wrote:Hogey - I remember a similar thing being said in the run up to Calzaghe vs Lacy & we all know what happened in that one.

Granted Lacy was no where near as good as Conteh nor did he have any of the boxing skills which Conteh could utilise. However people assumed that size & power alone would win through that night.

For me this would be a cracker of a fight and a real pick em. I don't think you could really say one has the beating of the other every single time & as has been mentioned a lot would come down to whether it was a 12 or 15 rounder.

For me, over 12 Rounds Calzaghe wins more often than not.

88chris05 - One point you made in your post was that it was a case of a quantity vs quality fight...whilst I do agree that Conteh was probably a little more accurate with his punches I think people often overlook the precision of Calzaghe especially prior to the hand injuries. If you take a look at any of his fights against the likes of Eubank, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer you can appreciate that the guy was very precise himself.

Following the hand troubles he did begin to throw a lot more with less accuracy...I think the reasoning behind it was it was a way to keep fighters at bay & help him win rounds given that he couldn't do it with power anymore.

The key as you allude to is whether Calzaghe can evade being caught clean with that left hook of Conteh. He was open to it yet even then if you think back i'm not sure one could point to any moment where he was really hurt by it during his career. He certainly had a chin so i'm not sure Conteh would have knocked him clean out.

A big factor also for me is that Joe was barely ever marked up let alone cut...so i wouldn't be to sure that Conteh could open him up and then target it (unless of course he was able to get away with some of those underhand tactics).

John could be prone to a slow start and I think that in a fight between the two he would most likely be 4 or 5 rounds down by the mid way point. Whilst I would expect Conteh to come on strong during the 2nd half of the fight I think Calzaghe would have enough about him to knick a couple of 10-10 rounds somewhere along the line which would be enough to see him over the line.

Obviously John is by far the bigger man but Calzaghe had a good enough engine to pull bursts of success out even if he is slowing in the latter stages of a fight between them.

Calzaghe to win over 12 by 2 or 3 Rounds whilst maybe being dropped somewhere along the way.

Over 15 Rounds however I think it's advantage to Conteh & he wins just slightly more often than Calzaghe.

The reality was though that when it come down to it Lacey was not very good and he was not a light Heavyweight and certainly not as good as Conteh. Joe had a good chin and a ton of heart but he did get hurt and put down by men who did not posses the power of Conteh if he caught him with the kind of shots Jones or Hopkins dropped him with i doubt Joe would recover. If you threw in modern training methods Conteh would be a monster in todays light heavyweight division.

I did make a point that Lacy wasn't on the same level of Conteh Hogey...my point is that it is far to easy to just say someone is too big and powerful and therefore they will win.

Conteh would still have to get to Calzaghe and catch him clean. Even when Calzaghe took a shot, bar one or to instances he very rarely took one completely flush...and the 3 times he did get put down he got up once to destroy Mitchell.

I don't hold much weight on him being put down by Jones or Hopkins due to the fact they were both at the tail end of his career & were flash knockdowns which didn't trouble him. (The Jones one as has been mentioned was mostly forearm rather than a punch).

If I was to hold weight to those two cases then I would look closely at the way Conteh was beaten by Parlov & Saad Muhammad (one by knockout)...but given we are talking about them during there peaks i'm not using those cases.

Whilst Conteh was a strong guy I wouldn't say he was a monster. He was only an inch or so taller than Calzaghe & whilst he held a 3 inch reach advantage it was not something his style of boxing fully made use of.

I would hazard a guess that on fight night the difference in weight would be 2 maybe 3 lbs in Conteh's favour. Calzaghe was very slender in frame but it's not like he was ever bossed around the ring by anyone. Against Hopkins he was far from troubled when the fight was on the inside & against Kessler who is huge in frame & known for his ability to wear down his opponents, Calzaghe came on the strongest in the 2nd half of the fight.

As I said...i do think it's a pick em but with both fighters in their respective peaks I think Calzaghe gets the edge over 12 rounds more often than Conteh. He may have tough patches in the fight but he does enough over the first six rounds to build a lead which Conteh just can't get back.

hogey wrote:

owen10ozzy wrote:Hogey - I remember a similar thing being said in the run up to Calzaghe vs Lacy & we all know what happened in that one.

Granted Lacy was no where near as good as Conteh nor did he have any of the boxing skills which Conteh could utilise. However people assumed that size & power alone would win through that night.

For me this would be a cracker of a fight and a real pick em. I don't think you could really say one has the beating of the other every single time & as has been mentioned a lot would come down to whether it was a 12 or 15 rounder.

For me, over 12 Rounds Calzaghe wins more often than not.

88chris05 - One point you made in your post was that it was a case of a quantity vs quality fight...whilst I do agree that Conteh was probably a little more accurate with his punches I think people often overlook the precision of Calzaghe especially prior to the hand injuries. If you take a look at any of his fights against the likes of Eubank, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer you can appreciate that the guy was very precise himself.

Following the hand troubles he did begin to throw a lot more with less accuracy...I think the reasoning behind it was it was a way to keep fighters at bay & help him win rounds given that he couldn't do it with power anymore.

The key as you allude to is whether Calzaghe can evade being caught clean with that left hook of Conteh. He was open to it yet even then if you think back i'm not sure one could point to any moment where he was really hurt by it during his career. He certainly had a chin so i'm not sure Conteh would have knocked him clean out.

A big factor also for me is that Joe was barely ever marked up let alone cut...so i wouldn't be to sure that Conteh could open him up and then target it (unless of course he was able to get away with some of those underhand tactics).

John could be prone to a slow start and I think that in a fight between the two he would most likely be 4 or 5 rounds down by the mid way point. Whilst I would expect Conteh to come on strong during the 2nd half of the fight I think Calzaghe would have enough about him to knick a couple of 10-10 rounds somewhere along the line which would be enough to see him over the line.

Obviously John is by far the bigger man but Calzaghe had a good enough engine to pull bursts of success out even if he is slowing in the latter stages of a fight between them.

Calzaghe to win over 12 by 2 or 3 Rounds whilst maybe being dropped somewhere along the way.

Over 15 Rounds however I think it's advantage to Conteh & he wins just slightly more often than Calzaghe.

The reality was though that when it come down to it Lacey was not very good and he was not a light Heavyweight and certainly not as good as Conteh. Joe had a good chin and a ton of heart but he did get hurt and put down by men who did not posses the power of Conteh if he caught him with the kind of shots Jones or Hopkins dropped him with i doubt Joe would recover. If you threw in modern training methods Conteh would be a monster in todays light heavyweight division.

The fights you mention against Hopkins and Jones weren't Calzaghe at his best though, in his mid thirties the reactions had slowed and his chin wasn't quite as steady. Joe had a very very sturdy chin and on the occasions he was hurt recovered so quickly. Combine that with possibly the best stamina of anyone who fought from 168-175 and he becomes a very hard guy to finish within the distance, also I can't see a referee stoppage being to likely as Calzaghe always threw back when hurt. I've been watching a bit of Conteh tonight as he was someone who has slipped under my radar somewhat and from what I've seen I find myself favouring Calzaghe in this one unless the size difference was too much but Conteh to me doesn't look like he'd weigh much more than Calzaghe on fight night.

The trouble with Conteh is people always assess the "what could have been" version rather than the "what actually was" version of him.

Put quite simply Calzaghe was a level above. Not saying Conteh doesn't stand a chance but Calzaghe wins comfortably by UD 9 times out of 10.

With Conteh it's more of a 'he could have achieved more based on the talent he proved he had' more than anything else, on his best night he was one of the best talents to come from these isles.

But Kirkland Laing was also one of the finest pure talents Britain has ever produced add possible Errol Christie to the mix too. I just think with Conteh he got the title and then showed around 75% of what he could do for the rest of his career. He never beat any great fighters.

Laing and Christie achieved very little in comparison, their stars didn't really shine and fulfilled none of their potential.

Christie turned out to have a chin of glass, and Kirkland a love of grass. Kirk has a better win in his ledger than anything conteh can offer though.

Regardless, I always liked conteh, such a smooth boxer, fought and looked a bit like a big wilfredo Benitez... But like so many he was a champagne Charlie. I'm assuming we're looking peak for peak. Had this been the mid 70 's, jc would have been a light heavy anyway... So I'm not sure we're looking at a significant size difference. Jc's last few money fight performances have been picked apart, but at least he won them, wheras conteh faded then capitulated against saad Mohammed.

I guess finnegan conteh against Lacey Calzaghe, is about where we match them. Don 't see a stoppage, so it's pretty much speed and workrate against, smooth boxing. Much as I like conteh, I'm leaning to Calzaghe in a close one

More interesting than the thread though Is that Chris has a girlfriend. How can you spend your entire life buried in boxing books and Dvd's, and find time for a woman?!

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Conteh was decent, but not in Calzaghe's league not by a long way.

Conteh was around in the times of 'same day weigh ins', he wouldn't have been a big LH today, and was probably around the same ring weight as Calzaghe.

What makes you say that Conteh was not in Calzaghe's league?

I reckon if the WBO title had been around in Conteh's day, he would probably have had the same type of lengthy reign just like Calzgahe had. And if Calzaghe had fought in the mid to late 70's with only 2 titles available he probably wouldn't have been any more successful than Conteh.

milkyboy wrote:Christie turned out to have a chin of glass, and Kirkland a love of grass. Kirk has a better win in his ledger than anything conteh can offer though.

Regardless, I always liked conteh, such a smooth boxer, fought and looked a bit like a big wilfredo Benitez... But like so many he was a champagne Charlie. I'm assuming we're looking peak for peak. Had this been the mid 70 's, jc would have been a light heavy anyway... So I'm not sure we're looking at a significant size difference. Jc's last few money fight performances have been picked apart, but at least he won them, wheras conteh faded then capitulated against saad Mohammed.

I guess finnegan conteh against Lacey Calzaghe, is about where we match them. Don 't see a stoppage, so it's pretty much speed and workrate against, smooth boxing. Much as I like conteh, I'm leaning to Calzaghe in a close one

More interesting than the thread though Is that Chris has a girlfriend. How can you spend your entire life buried in boxing books and Dvd's, and find time for a woman?!

I thought he was spreading Christmas cheer by telling jokes.

Union claims to have a wife, given his borderline autism I find Chris' claim less fanciful

Rowley wrote:Union claims to have a wife, given his borderline autism I find Chris' claim less fanciful

Poor Rowley - as much of a luddite as ever, union doesnt have a Wife he has a W.I.F.E - a Windows Interactive Fact Emitter

I've reconsidered my position on this. Given Chris' mopping up at the recent awards, his ladyfriend is probably a supermodel, whose hobbies include boxing and inviting her friends back for threesomes with her boyfriend. No doubt she can rustle up a mean fry-up too. When you're hot, you're hot.

i'd say calzaghe wins much like he did against kessler, who holds many comparisons to conteh, just beats him to the punch and keeps the pace higher than john could, he may get caught by him a few times but i dont think at that time in joes career it would change how he fought.

I watched Calzaghe vs Hopkins again last night and it made me more convinced Joe wins this one. He made a lot of small adjustments to beat a style which is a nightmare for his own natural game. Hopkins single shots then smothering Calzaghes work was giving him problems early on but he made Hopkins fight at a range and tempo that suited Calzaghe and I had Joe winning by a comfortable margin in the end. I think to beat Calzaghe it would take more than what I've seen from Conteh unless there really was a big difference in size and strength on fight night.

Ive watched many of Calazaghe's fights and I can Honestly say he was very intelligent (ring wise) If the fight wasn't going quite to plan he would always change tactics he had a plan B,C and D it was quite a pleasure watching him tbh he always found a way, Ive seen clips of Conteh on you tube and read up on him he was as solid as they come what a hard man, I feel with Joes ring smarts he wins via UD on work rate alone not taking anything away from Conteh but I think JC would be to smart and box his lugs off.

Atila wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Conteh was decent, but not in Calzaghe's league not by a long way.

Conteh was around in the times of 'same day weigh ins', he wouldn't have been a big LH today, and was probably around the same ring weight as Calzaghe.

What makes you say that Conteh was not in Calzaghe's league?

I reckon if the WBO title had been around in Conteh's day, he would probably have had the same type of lengthy reign just like Calzgahe had. And if Calzaghe had fought in the mid to late 70's with only 2 titles available he probably wouldn't have been any more successful than Conteh.

Calzaghe was a 10+ year two weight unbeaten world, and ring magazine, champion and #2 on the P4P list.

John Conteh was a relatively short reigning WBC champ, who really beat no one of note.

Conteh is more Richy Woodhall than Joe Calzaghe.

All this " he could have been great" talk is just pointless - he wasn't. It's like the guy in the pub saying he could have been better than Messi if he'd tried harder. It's like the people comparing Ike Ibeabuchi to VK, because Ike could have been better.

Ahumada, Lopez, Finnegan and Hutchins would all be great names on Calzaghes resume, seems to me like Conteh is getting a very raw deal here.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Ahumada, Lopez, Finnegan and Hutchins would all be great names on Calzaghes resume, seems to me like Conteh is getting a very raw deal here.

Those names are more Tocker Pudwill than Bernard Hopkins.

Not really though are they, Calzaghe may have the one stand out win of Hopkins but Lopez in particular stands very good comparison to Kessler.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Not really though are they, Calzaghe may have the one stand out win of Hopkins but Lopez in particular stands very good comparison to Kessler.

Apart from Kessler actually winning most of his title fights. Lopez lost all of his 5 world title shots and both his NABF title shots, the guy was a perennial loser.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Not really though are they, Calzaghe may have the one stand out win of Hopkins but Lopez in particular stands very good comparison to Kessler.

Calzaghe has one win over a P4P (at the time) great and future hall-of-famer. His wins over Lacy and Kessler rate more highly than anything Conteh has ever done.

That's your opinion, can't say I agree with wins over a couple of belt holders in Lacy and Kessler are any better than Finnegan, Ahumada and Lopez.