Billy Vunipola

The guy is immense and if he doesn't get put into the EPS instead of Dowson or even Waldrom i will be flabbergasted.

Been impressed with him most of this season and todays game against Sale really showed everything he is capable of, yes i know it was only Sale but he still showed a full repertoire of skills. He tackled and hit rucks all day long, whilst also making a combination of explosive runs and small hard yard gains which are just as important. He offloaded virtually every time he was tackled and remained on his feet and then at the end made a very nice turnover. If his brother can get in the squad, i see no reason why he shouldn't, and at only 20 odd years of age, he and Morgan should be battling it out for the England shirt for a long time to come.

I agree & I have no doubt Billy Vunipola will be England's no 8 for the next World Cup.
It will be interesting to see if SL brings him in this time round. I hope he does together with Wade. The next one from a Wasps point of view will be Eliot Daly.
Launchbury is a given & could go on to be a true great.

I had heard about Billy and Mako a few years ago as a pair with real potential. I had considered placing a bet about them both getting full caps, but didnt. Kicking myself a bit now.

Awesome player loads of potential and should definatley should get a shot in an england jersey as Waldrom isnt one for the future or now even ! He's definately a bit different compared to the best in the buisiness such as Keiran Read, Spies, Fernandez Lobbe, Parisse etc and I wonder whether tighthead would have been his best position given his height, weight and build but he's a number 8 now and hopefully his fitness will be up to the rigours of international rugby.

That was the main thing i noticed about him Sirtidy, he really started to come to the fore towards the end of the match. He was still in pretty condition whereas Sale had tired and so he became that much more effective.

I reckon he will be able to cope with all the physical aspects of test rugby, hes big and fit enough for it no problem. Hopefully he has the brain to deal with it as well.

Fantastic carrier but lacks a bit between the ears to make a top 8.

You look at the world class 8's (Read, Lobbe, Parisse etc) and they're all very intelligent footballers as well as good carriers.

8 is a key decision making position, I'm not convinced Billy V has the nous to step up personally.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Fantastic carrier but lacks a bit between the ears to make a top 8.

You look at the world class 8's (Read, Lobbe, Parisse etc) and they're all very intelligent footballers as well as good carriers.

8 is a key decision making position, I'm not convinced Billy V has the nous to step up personally.

With Morgan as his main competitor we probably wouldn't be losing a huge amount in terms of nous. In fairness with Robshaw,Wood,Parling and Cole in the pack we have a bit of nous but could do with the carrying of Mako/Morgan. Ideally you want players with lots of both but they're fairly rare. In terms of intelligent No 8s, Crane has spent time as captain at most levels he's played and also Alex Gray is a very smart player but seems to be stagnating a bit at LI.

king_carlos wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Fantastic carrier but lacks a bit between the ears to make a top 8.

You look at the world class 8's (Read, Lobbe, Parisse etc) and they're all very intelligent footballers as well as good carriers.

8 is a key decision making position, I'm not convinced Billy V has the nous to step up personally.

With Morgan as his main competitor we probably wouldn't be losing a huge amount in terms of nous. In fairness with Robshaw,Wood,Parling and Cole in the pack we have a bit of nous but could do with the carrying of Mako/Morgan. Ideally you want players with lots of both but they're fairly rare. In terms of intelligent No 8s, Crane has spent time as captain at most levels he's played and also Alex Gray is a very smart player but seems to be stagnating a bit at LI.

Don't forget Billy has literally just turned 20. Still very young particularly for an 8. He will learn as he goes along & hopefully just get better & better.

I think the lad's getting over hyped a bit. He does some great stuff but then seems to switch off a bit (and I'm a Wasps fan).

Give him a stint in the Saxons maybe, and see how he goes. For me Easter is still the best all round English no. 8 but Lancaster has ruled him out.

Billy should get Saxons time but I agree with Hound

Thats very true Hound, especially about Easter who has looked great with Quins the last season and a half.

I see your point about Billy going missing, but the fact that he does have his moments shows that he has the ability. Consistency should come with age and experience, and as has been mentioned he's only 20.

I'd like to see him in the squad to train with everyone and maybe get a run out against Italy or Scotland (if we comfortable). It can do his development no harm to experience the EPS training.

Play him in the A league 6N's (if that still runs?) and then bump him up to the seniors for the tour to Argentina. He can still train with the EPS during the 6N's as well. But for the moment Morgan needs as much game time as possible and Haskell can cover well off the bench if needed.

He has too much potential and brings too much to the table to be in the Saxons for more then the 6N's though.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:I think the lad's getting over hyped a bit. He does some great stuff but then seems to switch off a bit (and I'm a Wasps fan).

Give him a stint in the Saxons maybe, and see how he goes. For me Easter is still the best all round English no. 8 but Lancaster has ruled him out.

I'm a Wasps fan to Hound. Apart from Ben Morgan there aren't any obvious contenders for the 8 in 2015. As Dai Young says , "....I believe he is ready for an England call up and he wouldn't let anyone down."

SL will know Billy from his U 18 & U 20s days & I don't believe he is the finished article but with his undoubted stand out talent I think he should be getting involved in the elite squad sooner rather than later.

If we had other options I would agree, put him in the Saxons but we haven't. Haskell can cover 8 like he does for England & Wasps but that isn't his best position and you need 2 specialist 8s in the EPS.
Is it time for Waldron to step aside?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Fantastic carrier but lacks a bit between the ears to make a top 8.

You look at the world class 8's (Read, Lobbe, Parisse etc) and they're all very intelligent footballers as well as good carriers.

8 is a key decision making position, I'm not convinced Billy V has the nous to step up personally.

Hi Sgt. I think you're right re the intelligence of those players, but i'm not sure Billy lacks nous, in what specific area do you think this is the case? For me he has good hands, a good offload and a decent awareness as to when to do so and when not. A pretty good instinct for when to hit rucks and when not to compete. I've seen him give the odd penalty away but not a lot. I've also seen him get worked up when a decision goes against him but nothing major.

I don't think he'll be chipping over fullbacks or making perfectly weighted grubbers a la Parisse, but i can live with that.

On the other hand, his carrying from what i've seen, is immense. I haven't seen a single player in the Prem carry that effectively, that is how highly i rate him in that respect. He'll have poor games and get targeted, but in both tight and loose he seems to always make yards. He also makes big hits in defense and hits rucks. He looks a special talent.

I really rate and like Morgan, and with his fitness improving he looks an excellent prospect, but I honestly believe BV will overtake him in a couple of years. I'd hope to see both of them battling for the 8 position for years.

I'd expect to see him in the Saxons for the games during the 6N. If he does the business there I can't see why he can't be drafted into the first team to acclimatise then if he continues to impress and England need more go forward then he could make his debut.

What fixtures do the saxons have this year? Because surely they dont have many and if that is the case is it any more beneficial for him to be playing with the saxons than training with the first team and possibly earning a call up during the full 6 nations.

I think he is definitely going to give Lancaster as much reason as possible to pick him, his carrying speaks for itself. The guy brushes off tackles for fun, even when he is going from a standing start and one thing I like my number 8's to be is to be destructive ball carriers and he is certainly that!

In fairness I often think it's rare to see the naturally very powerful players develop into what we consider smart players. When you name the likes of Parisse,Read,Harinoduquy etc whilst exceptionally fit and strong compared to the majority of us they aren't gigantic guys - Lomu style players who are just incredibly hard to stop.

Those smart players such as Parrisse,Read and Harinoduquy work and work to make up for not being behemoths by becoming technically exceptional, developing line-out skills etc to set themselves apart as a different style of player.

To be fair to Vunipola with people viewing him as not that bright a player, many players who have the natural strength he has along with reasonable core skills from a rugby upbringing they rarely develop in the same style of players as those we consider intelligent. That's not meant to be a criticism on either sort of player as each in the right side can work very well.

Theres always room for a brutal blunt weapon, providing its in a balanced team. I think he has the potential to be just the kind of runner think England need.
It makes Englands backrow a very competitive place.

To be fair to Vumipola his offloads and ability to compete at the breakdown have improved a lot this season.

formerly known as Sam wrote:To be fair to Vumipola his offloads and ability to compete at the breakdown have improved a lot this season.

I agree. I know it was only Sale, but he looked superb in all areas against them. He's looked very good against plenty of others as well. His work-rate is unrecognisable from a year ago.