Toby Floods tackle for all to see

Not not a Prince Harry moment but the tip and Andy Goode last night

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2012-13/rugby/story/175309.html

Fair play for him for being able to push the lard bucket that far (who himself should be cited for 2 incidents in the game) certainly less of a mismatch than Warburton vs Clerc but still doesnt look good for him at all. Squeeky clean record and being a jolly good chap and all that should help but if he dioes get a ban it screws his chance of regaining form in time for the 6 nations.

Looking at it Flood was driving sideways and almost falling over when Goode was actually tipped and rolled, and he wasnt dropped or driven from a height, Goodes head was almost down by the point his legs went over horizontal and he had a hand down.... appears clumsy rather than deliberate....probably a low end with record and lack of biscuit eating taken into account shouldnt keep him out too long.

On his performance though I dont think his coaches would be too bothered if he was banned for a long time. Looks rusty, big worry for the lad whos really struggled with persistent injuries over the last few years. Its threatening to derail his career, and last night wont help one bit.

I did not think it was that bad to be honest. Flood got hold of him lifted him up and Goode twisted around the higher flood lifted him.

I dont think he should get a citing for it.

It's not that bad, however the hips go past the horizontal so it will be a citing and a ban. There's no maliciousness but it is dangerous.

As formerly says it's not malicious but dangerous and will definitely get a citing and probably low level ban.

As a positive I guess it'll give Ford a chance to start a few more games. On the downside Flood seems to be struggling to find form again since his latest injury and this certainly wont help.

yeah, that's off to the citings. Shame, but he'll take a hit for that. No maliciousness involved at all though.

Just been announced that he has been cited after the Northampton game finished. Am i the only one who thinks Rob Hawkins didn't help things by seeming to pull Goode's shoulders down? He was obviously just keen to ruck over.

There was also a hint of hair pulling in the incident.

Yeah Hawkins really didn't help, he was a little over eager most of the game. I guess he's seen Tom Youngs leap frog him and reap international rewards. With Chuter set to retire as well he won't want Tigers to be signing another hooker. Lots of reasons why he was keen to get involved.

I think it is dubious enough to argue no intent but it depends whether or not that matters. Certainly a bad end in that goode came down on his neck. There is no way a ban will take him into the 6N but he should be gone for January.

A 4 week ban takes us to the first 6N weekend. If he plays any part in the two HEC games i will be very surprised.

Won't it be an RFU disciplinary officer making the decision? Don't be surprised if he is cleared in the interests of the English national team. Home unions making decision like these in the past have done exactly that.

Very true Dodger. That will probably mean a low end ban as he needs match practice as well.

The only one reason Flood might not get punished. That is if the citing panel start laughing hysterically thinking Flood can't really pick up anyone heavier than 10 stone and wondering who helped him actually pick up a grown man.

He could have killed him, to drive a players unsupported neck and head into the ground is malicious , he had at least three chances to bring the tackle down to the floor safely or let go and get a better tackle in.

Pretty shocking from Flood really he always seemed a clean cut player! oh wait... he did try to push Percy into the crowd before.

They should throw the book at him set the example for the young kids who watch the game and look up to the professional players.

#prayforgoode

viewtothegym wrote:He could have killed him, to drive a players unsupported neck and head into the ground is malicious , he had at least three chances to bring the tackle down to the floor safely or let go and get a better tackle in.

Feic me, I find myself in the alarmingly unsettling position of agreeing with view - Flood had plenty of scope for letting go the legs long before Goode's head was run into the ground.

We agree because he did, it wasn't like most spear tackles when two players collided and the larger player usual wins the collision then momentum turns it into a spear tackle.

Flood actually seemed to be looking for the spear tackle,fighting to lift Goodes hips up.

I will have to watch it again. At the time, I didn't think it was as bad as you feel it was.

Ok watched it.
I don't see anything malicious in it at all. But, that is all opinion.
I also agree it is illegal and a ban should be coming.

doctor_grey wrote:I will have to watch it again. At the time, I didn't think it was as bad as you feel it was.

Incase tour hadn't noticed view is a bit of a troll with a massive chip on his shoulder regarding England. Don't take him too seriously. If flood had been trying to kill him he would've kicked a soccerball at his head

Cheers, Peter!

I dont think it is malicious but it is clumsy and i do agree he had the opportunity to make a really good (and legal) tackle but took it too far.

2-4 weeks imo. It will be of much more concern to tigers than england imo

They should throw the book at him set the example for the young kids who watch the game and look up to the professional players.

Like they did with Sam Warburton in the rugby world cup.

Can't see why difference in size of the tackler and the ball carrier has to do with how bad the tackle is Peter?

What length ban did warburton get?

4 Weeks I think stand.

seems about right then

I don't understand what you mean stand? The ban for Warburton? I agree if you mean that.

I think Flood should be within that subset as well to be honest. Nothing malicious but reckless. It will be interesting to see given that its a union rather than the IRB or ERC panel. Ireland and wales have both been guilty of being 'generous' to their players in disciplinary hearings.

I agree with what you say with the domestic bans and on the flood tackle. The tip tackle seems to be public enemy number 1 at the moment. Will be interesting to see what he gets.

Not good for Flood.

Not a malicious player but that was a bad tackle.

The fact Flood didn't set out to do a spear tackle is irrespective, he turned it into a very dangerous tackle and showed very poor technique by effectively dropping Goode on his neck. He deserves a ban for this as does Smith for the elbow to the back of the head.

Reckless and dangerous ( if not malicous) . Should be banned until after the 6 nations.; clear tip tackle, clearly very dangerous. Should get a long ban

Lloyd Williams is currently serving a 5 week ban for this one. Is Flood's any better?

https://youtu.be/UCJfNIr_UvA

HongKongCherry wrote:The fact Flood didn't set out to do a spear tackle is irrespective, he turned it into a very dangerous tackle and showed very poor technique by effectively dropping Goode on his neck. He deserves a ban for this as does Smith for the elbow to the back of the head.

Flood should be banned for at least 6 weeks.

Smith should be cited as should Grove for the elbow to the face that preceded Smith's attack and the stamp to the testes that followed.
Goode should also be cited for the haymaker he threw near the end. However I suspect that the citing for Flood will be the only one.

Griff wrote:Lloyd Williams is currently serving a 5 week ban for this one. Is Flood's any better?

https://youtu.be/UCJfNIr_UvA

It would be nice to think these punishments were internationally unilateral...!

Griff wrote:Lloyd Williams is currently serving a 5 week ban for this one. Is Flood's any better?

https://youtu.be/UCJfNIr_UvA

Siomilar - floods maybe not quiet as bad but as flood did not get a card does he not get a bigger punishment?

I think Williams tackle was worse.
Not sure if the ban depends on whether the player gets a red, yellow, penalty, or anything. I might be wrong, but I thought the punishment was entirely up to the citing panel based upon what they see (and the statements of the players and referee).

TJ wrote:

Griff wrote:Lloyd Williams is currently serving a 5 week ban for this one. Is Flood's any better?

https://youtu.be/UCJfNIr_UvA

Siomilar - floods maybe not quiet as bad but as flood did not get a card does he not get a bigger punishment?

I thought Flood got red carded?

no red, no yellow.

doctor_grey wrote:no red, no yellow.

Wow, considering how often they are handed out so easily for less dangerous tackles. Goode landed on his head.

Just read that Flood could miss the first two weeks of HEC, he has officially been cited.

Not good for the Lions, he is definitely one of the form flyhalfs.

majesticimperialman wrote:I did not think it was that bad to be honest. Flood got hold of him lifted him up and Goode twisted around the higher flood lifted him.

I dont think he should get a citing for it.

majesticimperialman wrote:They should throw the book at him set the example for the young kids who watch the game and look up to the professional players.

Like they did with Sam Warburton in the rugby world cup.

Either you're on the wum, or that's one heck of an opinion change

viewtothegym wrote:He could have killed him, to drive a players unsupported neck and head into the ground is malicious , he had at least three chances to bring the tackle down to the floor safely or let go and get a better tackle in.

Pretty shocking from Flood really he always seemed a clean cut player! oh wait... he did try to push Percy into the crowd before.

They should throw the book at him set the example for the young kids who watch the game and look up to the professional players.

#prayforgoode

You could couldn't make it up!

I see what you've done now Madge. I'll teach you how to quote if you want Madge? All part of the service. Without a quote, it's hard to guess what's your post.

LondonTiger wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:The fact Flood didn't set out to do a spear tackle is irrespective, he turned it into a very dangerous tackle and showed very poor technique by effectively dropping Goode on his neck. He deserves a ban for this as does Smith for the elbow to the back of the head.

Flood should be banned for at least 6 weeks.

Smith should be cited as should Grove for the elbow to the face that preceded Smith's attack and the stamp to the testes that followed.
Goode should also be cited for the haymaker he threw near the end. However I suspect that the citing for Flood will be the only one.

Quite ...there were at least half a dozenciteable incidents in the game. Yet unless flood gets a 6 year ban there will still be those who claim he's been let off lightly because he's in the England squad

majesticimperialman wrote:They should throw the book at him set the example for the young kids who watch the game and look up to the professional players.

Like they did with Sam Warburton in the rugby world cup.

Nice to see you agree with me madge

It was a bad end to what started out as a pretty good tackle. Stupid really as he did have several chances to put him down. You must know that if you lift a player to that height that the chances of it ending well are minimal.

Low level ban of around 1-2 weeks awaits i feel.

Strange that during the game, it didn't seem to me as bad as on the replays I seen afterwards. Clearly a tip and I agree the lower level sanction is appropriate.

Also strange the referee didn't see it as so severe at the time either.

Maybe Doyle bottled it as he was shown to have wrongly red carded the LI number 8 in the game against London Welsh a few weeks back, almost certainly costing them the match.

Just the same as 80%(made up stat) of these tackles. A good tackle that went slightly wrong and ended up being a bit dangerous. 1 wk ban.

Lloyd Williams getting 5 weeks is ridiculous IMO.

The Fijian flanker red carded for Treviso v Glasgow at Scotstoun on Friday was a textbook spear tackle on Al Kellock. Tackle, lift, legs up and throw to the ground head first all in a split second in front of the ref. Identical to Warburton's in the RWC11 v France. The referee took his time and consulted the TJ before going for the red card.

Flood's took longer in that he carried him over a few metres before spearing his opponent in head first. Still a dangerous thing to do and if anything more deliberate.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:The Fijian flanker red carded for Treviso v Glasgow at Scotstoun on Friday was a textbook spear tackle on Al Kellock. Tackle, lift, legs up and throw to the ground head first all in a split second in front of the ref. Identical to Warburton's in the RWC11 v France. The referee took his time and consulted the TJ before going for the red card.

Flood's took longer in that he carried him over a few metres before spearing his opponent in head first. Still a dangerous thing to do and if anything more deliberate.

Also worth mentioning is that with the Flood incident, there were other players involved in the tackle which of course would of had an effect on the balance of any players. So it would be harder to prove intent.