Professionalism is ruining South African rugby.

I'll start off by saying I am a traditionalist. I believe when you look at sport it is "the modern" way of showing off your prowess as a nation. note I am saying nation and not country.

When I say nation I am talking about history, tradition, patriotism, pride etc.
when I say country I am thinking more along the lines of a place with people working for the same tax man.

I remember in the old days, I was 6 years old and my uncle took me to Newlands on saturdays to watch Currie Cup rugby. In those days Western Province still played against Far North Transvaal, albeit beating them by 50 - 60 points.

In later years as I grew up I loved going to ellis Park and see the top Currie Cup teams mix it up. Sport was innocent in those days, it was all about the pleasure of playing rugby, of course it was about winning, but it was also a way for small boys to "man up" and show no fear.

The challenges of rugby has changed, it is no more about history, pride, tradition and patriotism. In South Africa alone the Vodacom Cup barely manages to kep top players and then only when these players have a sustainable income from a Currie cup contract.

At Super Rugby level, politics have played its part to remove the Lions from the equation, The Kings will now partake as the fifth franchise and yet their results are bound to be even more dismal than that of the Lions. There are plenty of South Africans saying the Lions deserve to be ousted because they have not performed. But look a little closer and the reasons are more upfront than many care to acknowledge.

There are only 3 super rugby Franchises that has money. Now I know many will say the Lions, the cheetahs etc can make more money, I mean let's face it, the Lions are situated in the financial capital of Africa.

I often sit and wonder how much money SARU and their provinces as a whole make in one calendar year of rugby. That is where the whole problem begin. As a rugby supporter in South Africa it is frustrating not to be able to figure out how much money there is in the game, now we all know we live in a capitalistic society and that rugby is seen as a business.

well I have a serious problem with people seeing rugby as a business.

That in my view is utter nonsense. How many clubs and franchises go belly up and need financial assistance?

It happens all over the place, now if rugby was a business, it would have to be a profit making organisation, wouldn't it?

How many clubs make a sustainable profit?

If clubs were supposed to make a profit, it would have a financial guru who would cross his t's and dot his I's and make sure expenses do not exceed revenue. That certainly isn't the case with many clubs.

It seems to me clubs/provinces/franchises or wahtever you want to call them these days, need tycoons with pick bank accounts to dump money into the sport to make clubs survive.

Just look at Japan and their professional model, there are barely 5000 people at a match, yet players such as SBW and Jaque fourie are on million dollar contracts. There is no way in hell that is sustainable.

The english clubs are complaining about their salary caps falling behind the Frnach clubs, yet some of them are struggling financially. How does that make any sense?

New Zealand has sold "part rights" (easiest way to explain as the deal doesn't make commercial sense to me) of their rugby franchises to make more money, The Highlanders are or were in deep fiancial trouble, the Lions on the verge of backruptcy.

In the meantime players are playing musical chairs and changing their allegiance from one country to next next with the ease of a signature on a piece of paper worth 30 silver coins.

Rugby is in deep shyte for those who haven't thought about it in recent times.

There is no more tradition (I'll sell you my sense of trdition for 30 coins), there is no sense of pride (I don't really care who I represent at international level, my nation, your nation, what's the diffs?, it is all about money.) History, (ugh, that's for the librarians, not us players)

If SARU do not stand up and get their soul back, get rid of Super rugby, go back to financing all provinces and appointing CEO's, CFO's and administrators who knows how to sustain a system trying to be professional and yet failing miserably at the attempt, rugby not only in SA, but other countries as well, will all fall on the mighty sword of hari kiri business men serving their own egoistic motives and goals.

Think you've pretty much voiced what a lot of us feels about state of national sides there mate, though I disagree with this line here..
"there is no sense of pride (I don't really care who I represent at international level, my nation, your nation, what's the diffs?, it is all about money.)"

My reasoning is that there is NO money in representing any nations, so those mercenaries who plays for other countries cannot be doing it for monies, but for self pride in playing tests, even if not for country of birth?

OzT, these guys don't play test rugby for free mate.

Oh no, not for free for sure, but no way national fees pays as much as club?

Professionalsim will never ruin South African rugby..

But South Africa and New Zealand must always retain and respect what the Currie cup and the Ranfurly Shield do for rugby in their respective Countrys.

Even if some players earn more via club contracts, you can bet your bottom dollar their international income is right up there.

There should be an agreement made across all leagues worldwide that if a player who has played all his life in one country such as SA say for the Lions etc and learned his trade there then if he wants to go play in Japan then a proportion of his wages in Japan should go to the club that produced him.

Scathing stuff Bilt!

I can't be quite so pessimistic at the international level. Yes, you do and always will have, those that take the 30 peices of silver (very harsh analogy there mate!) and tootle off, but i suspect there are a lot more than this minority who genuinly wish to represent their country for the honour of wearing the jersey of their nation. The world however is getting smaller, in these times we can cross 12,000 miles in a day, and in greater numbers than at any point through history.

As for the professional advent of Rugby Union at the club/regional/province/franchise level there has always been 'sugar daddies' of some type or another for as long as the sport has been around. It has just been alluded too in a different manner in the past. In London, it was the worst best kept secret in the early 90's that a lot of the 'amateur' rugby players in the big clubs (Richmond, Quins, Wasps, etc, etc) were paid through their city job, but sat at their desk 'jobs' for maybe 6 hours a week.

As for crappy financial management, i feel that is keeping up the Joneses to a certian extent. Clubs/regions/franchises without a sugar daddy somehow have to compete for the best players. In the 'amateur' days it was jobs with the sponsors, now that dirty laundry can be aired in public!

The popularity of the game itself isn't in danger, i just can't believe that. For as long as there are muppets like us wanting to run into each other at break neck speeds, there will be Rugby. The rest is just icing on the cake.

Initially professionalism seemed to bring a lot of good changes. I believe it originally came about to stem the tide of union players heading off to play league? In any case as as the game evolves profesionalism really does represent a lot of threats to the game and should be managed intellegently accross all unions.

GunsGerms wrote:There should be an agreement made across all leagues worldwide that if a player who has played all his life in one country such as SA say for the Lions etc and learned his trade there then if he wants to go play in Japan then a proportion of his wages in Japan should go to the club that produced him.

Are we talking about a transfer fee??? That discussion would require a lot of space on this forum..

No not necessarly. I think that the club of origin should get a percentage of the wages per anumn on a sliding scale downwards each year. If you are in university and you develop a business or write a book for example the university can claim profits or ownership over that venture because that individual has used the knowledge they gained in said university for profit. I just dont think its fair that a young buck like CJ Stander can be nurtured and be the subject of a lot of time and attention of one club just to bugger off and take a big wage in another country and the system that made him gets no reward. However, its not just the reward thats important the cut of wages might also act as a deterrant. Thats why this method would be in my opinion more suitable than a transfer fee.

The reason why pro rugby is struggling is that the amateur setup was not compatible with a professional one.

In the amateur days we had 14 Currie Cup teams and the best players would be well split between say 8-10 of those sides. There was no money to be made and guys needed to have jobs so you went where your job took you not where rugby took you.

How can a city like Bloemfontein challenge one like Cape Town which is near 10 times larger in terms of population and more importantly, has a far higher proportion of white and coloured people (rugby's traditional fans... compared to Africans who grow up preferring football)???? Not least, more wealthy fans willing to spend more on merchandise, ticket prices etc etc.

Take the football premier league in England... London has what 5-6 clubs active... why because the population can sustain that many competitive clubs.

Can a team like Southampton compete with one of the larger London clubs... of course not.

Professional rugby in SA would be better in the LT if we had 2 clubs in both Durban & Cape Town at the very least. These clubs would have in time the same amount of support as the Stormers and the Sharks get.... and mean that SA rugby have not 2 but 4 rugby powerhouses in these cities.

Guns IIRC that only applies while still at University as they would probably be using Uni resources or used Uni resources to develop their idea or product.
There already is transfer fees for players who want to leave while still under contract but as most contracts seem to be 2 years,3 at most, there is little need.

Hi,Biltong there are several problems realistically the Super Series is expanded to far.At Worst Nz 4,SA 4 ,Aus 3 at best Nz 5 is the most Super Rugby can sustain it.
We are now getting SA Players going abroad while still believing they can still play for there Country.Morne Steyn and Bryan Habana are the latest going that way.
At least NZ and Aus have resisted that so far,players being recycled under dubious qualifications.Mysterious grand parents or residential qualification BUT
most of those with the od exception.Would never be good enough to play for there native countries.

I won't say professionalism is ruining South African rugby, I believe the end of apartheid in South Africa was the ultimate cause for the demise in both the standards of the the national team and the standards within the leading provincial sides who had to suddenly start selecting non-white players purely because teams had to satisfy the racial fixed quota criteria as laid down by the SA Rugby Board as was the case in cricket with the selection of Justin Ontong for the SA Team V Australia in 2002 over the white player Jacques Rudolph. Prior to apartheid ending in 1990, SA for many years throughout the isolation era of the late 70's to the start of the 1990's could have sent out an awesome playing XV to represent SA (against even the 1989 mighty All Blacks led by Wayne Shelford) with players like Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Ray Mordt,Carel Du Plessis, Johan Heunis, Michael Du Plessis, Danie Serfontein, Rob Louw, Hennie Bekker, Flippie Van Der Merwe, Uli Schmidt...

broadlandboy wrote:Guns IIRC that only applies while still at University as they would probably be using Uni resources or used Uni resources to develop their idea or product.
There already is transfer fees for players who want to leave while still under contract but as most contracts seem to be 2 years,3 at most, there is little need.

If you developed a project in universtiy and finished and perfected it and grew it outside university the principle would still apply. The analogy isnt perfect and maybe the idea isnt either but I think a working group form all leagues and unions should scrum down and address issues like this.

gboycottnut wrote:I won't say professionalism is ruining South African rugby, I believe the end of apartheid in South Africa was the ultimate cause for the demise in both the standards of the the national team and the standards within the leading provincial sides who had to suddenly start selecting non-white players purely because teams had to satisfy the racial fixed quota criteria as laid down by the SA Rugby Board as was the case in cricket with the selection of Justin Ontong for the SA Team V Australia in 2002 over the white player Jacques Rudolph. Prior to apartheid ending in 1990, SA for many years throughout the isolation era of the late 70's to the start of the 1990's could have sent out an awesome playing XV to represent SA (against even the 1989 mighty All Blacks led by Wayne Shelford) with players like Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Ray Mordt,Carel Du Plessis, Johan Heunis, Michael Du Plessis, Danie Serfontein, Rob Louw, Hennie Bekker, Flippie Van Der Merwe, Uli Schmidt...

Slightly racist maybe?

gboycottnut

hmm interesting point of view.

Can you tell me which ACI player has been picked ahead of white more deserving players throughout his career.

ACI players in my mind have been severely held back till this day... esp. in grassroots rugby.

I'll give you an example.

2005 U21 rugby world championship.

The babyboks beat NZ and AUS in successive games.... and had 9 ACI players starting each of those 2 matches.

yet out of that side only 2 players made it to the boks..... Morne Steyn and Ruan Pienaar (both Afrikaans, both white).

GunsGerms wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:I won't say professionalism is ruining South African rugby, I believe the end of apartheid in South Africa was the ultimate cause for the demise in both the standards of the the national team and the standards within the leading provincial sides who had to suddenly start selecting non-white players purely because teams had to satisfy the racial fixed quota criteria as laid down by the SA Rugby Board as was the case in cricket with the selection of Justin Ontong for the SA Team V Australia in 2002 over the white player Jacques Rudolph. Prior to apartheid ending in 1990, SA for many years throughout the isolation era of the late 70's to the start of the 1990's could have sent out an awesome playing XV to represent SA (against even the 1989 mighty All Blacks led by Wayne Shelford) with players like Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Ray Mordt,Carel Du Plessis, Johan Heunis, Michael Du Plessis, Danie Serfontein, Rob Louw, Hennie Bekker, Flippie Van Der Merwe, Uli Schmidt...

Slightly racist maybe?

I wasn't trying to be racist at all. All I'm trying to get at is that SA rugby has suffered the same problems as SA cricket after the international isolation ended in the early 1990's, with teams having to select non-white players regardless of ability as was the with the Justin Ontong incident V Australia in 2002.

In Wales we thought that professionalism would stop the drain of our best players going to rugby league. But it has only meant we lose them to wealthier countries top clubs.

fa0019 wrote:gboycottnut

hmm interesting point of view.

Can you tell me which ACI player has been picked ahead of white more deserving players throughout his career.

ACI players in my mind have been severely held back till this day... esp. in grassroots rugby.

I'll give you an example.

2005 U21 rugby world championship.

The babyboks beat NZ and AUS in successive games.... and had 9 ACI players starting each of those 2 matches.

yet out of that side only 2 players made it to the boks..... Morne Steyn and Ruan Pienaar (both Afrikaans, both white).

Sorry as I'm not from SA I don't understand what you mean by ACI players.

gboycottnut

Please back up your statement...

which players?

gboycottnut

So you're not from SA... meaning you know sweet FA about it.

ACI - African, Coloured, Indian (i.e. non White).

fa0019 wrote:gboycottnut

Please back up your statement...

which players?

Well in cricket there was Omar Henry who was selected ahead of Alan Kourie in of the tests V Australia in 1987. Then Justin Ontong in 2002 ahead of Jacques Rudolph also against Australia.

In rugby there was Avril Williams and Errol Tobias V England in the 2 tests in 1984. And in 1986 I believe that Wilfred Cupido got selected for Western Province V the NZ Cavaliers.

maestegmafia wrote:In Wales we thought that professionalism would stop the drain of our best players going to rugby league. But it has only meant we lose them to wealthier countries top clubs.

Apparently the former Wales number 8 forward Paul Moriarty's son is now playing for England in Rugby League!

thats another sport.

Erroll Tobias was actually quite a good player and well deserving of his caps.

And if thats your sole argument.... he was banging on the door for years... as was the dozens of coloured players who were easily better than their white counterparts but given they were banned from representing the boks... the couldn't.

In the last 15 years SA have produced ACI players such as Chester Williams, Breyton Paulse, Brian Habana, JP Pietersen, Ricky Januarie, Conrad Jantjies, Brian Mujati, Beast, Ashwin Willemse, Gio Aplon, Juan De Jongh, Adi Jacobs, Ashley Johnson, Elton Jantjies, Siya Kolisi and Chilliboy Ralepelle.

So tell me if in 15 years ACI players can produce well deserving boks like the above (ahead of White players) with dozens more and who were mismanaged as youths.. then how is it conceivable that in the years before... the best players would have been all white? It this when you go on about white supremacy???

Good article Biltong.

Professionalism has ruined rugby globally in many ways, but sadly i don't see how the process can be reversed or even changed really. Globally French clubs rule the roost, but how can this realistically be changed?

While I enjoy Super rugby, it has moved away from its original aim and has (in my opinion) become too big and unwieldy. I would like to see the semi finalists of the Currie Cup, ITM cup etc come together for a tournament which is for the best teams who are playing well. As it is Super XV 'THE' league for the season with everything else below it largely irrelevant.

In a similar way the Heinieken cup has become the same, I feel it should be the pinnacle of NH rugby, for the best performing teams. Arguably thats because I am a traditionalist who probably wouldn't go and support a 'London lancers' or 'SW Warriors' if regionalisation came to England.

Sadly unless some sort of cap is imposed on French clubs, its hard to see how the current path will change. This is only going to have a negative affect on international rugby, which should be the peak of a players career, not a way to make some money (the same for the Unions too who seem to be determined to dilute international rugby and squeeze it for every last penny).

A bit of a rambling post but a major issue is a lack of money globally. Basically French clubs plus on or 2 English clubs have cash. Globally the rest of the money/income comes from the AI games. Which can't be sustainable long term.

As a ps. Moriarty's son plays for Gloucester and is in the England U20's team.

fa0019 wrote:thats another sport.

Erroll Tobias was actually quite a good player and well deserving of his caps.

And if thats your sole argument.... he was banging on the door for years... as was the dozens of coloured players who were easily better than their white counterparts but given they were banned from representing the boks... the couldn't.

In the last 15 years SA have produced ACI players such as Chester Williams, Breyton Paulse, Brian Habana, JP Pietersen, Ricky Januarie, Conrad Jantjies, Brian Mujati, Beast, Ashwin Willemse, Gio Aplon, Juan De Jongh, Adi Jacobs, Ashley Johnson, Elton Jantjies, Siya Kolisi and Chilliboy Ralepelle.

So tell me if in 15 years ACI players can produce well deserving boks like the above (ahead of White players) with dozens more and who were mismanaged as youths.. then how is it conceivable that in the years before... the best players would have been all white? It this when you go on about white supremacy???

You can remove Adi Jacobs from that list, he was never better than Jaque Fourie.

Ive heard you lament Chiliboys inculsion at times too Bill. However, on the whole there have been some really good players that slot into the "ACI" category. Interesting Kirchener didnt make the list.

gboycottnut I honestly doubt you are racist so sorry probably shouldnt have implied that. However, I dont think you can really claim that the introduction of what FA0019 calls "ACI" players is the sole reason for SAs struggle for form.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Good article Biltong.

Professionalism has ruined rugby globally in many ways, but sadly i don't see how the process can be reversed or even changed really. Globally French clubs rule the roost, but how can this realistically be changed?

While I enjoy Super rugby, it has moved away from its original aim and has (in my opinion) become too big and unwieldy. I would like to see the semi finalists of the Currie Cup, ITM cup etc come together for a tournament which is for the best teams who are playing well. As it is Super XV 'THE' league for the season with everything else below it largely irrelevant.

In a similar way the Heinieken cup has become the same, I feel it should be the pinnacle of NH rugby, for the best performing teams. Arguably thats because I am a traditionalist who probably wouldn't go and support a 'London lancers' or 'SW Warriors' if regionalisation came to England.

Sadly unless some sort of cap is imposed on French clubs, its hard to see how the current path will change. This is only going to have a negative affect on international rugby, which should be the peak of a players career, not a way to make some money (the same for the Unions too who seem to be determined to dilute international rugby and squeeze it for every last penny).

A bit of a rambling post but a major issue is a lack of money globally. Basically French clubs plus on or 2 English clubs have cash. Globally the rest of the money/income comes from the AI games. Which can't be sustainable long term.

As a ps. Moriarty's son plays for Gloucester and is in the England U20's team.

Cheers Bathman, I will continue to watch super rugby as long is it runs, but I am over it to the extent where it doesn't mean as much as it used to in previous years.

SARU might not be able to reverse the situation, however I believe they can halt it and slowly gain back what they have lost.

Firstly they either need to negotiate a smaller Super Rugby comp, max 9 teams, or remove themselves from the equation.

The Franchises must have less independance and the talent must find its way back to the 14 provinces. There is a thought that you need all your best players in a few Super rugby teams, whilst that may be true (There are alternative ways to have that happen other than Super rugby), there is also a case to be made that we have enough tlanet to keep 14 provinces strong. The only way that will happen is revenue must be spread fairly (television revenue and sponsorship revenue), each province can still make their top up revenue from gate money and merchandise (however gate money should be apportioned sothat the away team gains some beneift).

This way we will have more competitive teams.

As far as getting strength vs strength, we can easily go to a All Star system at the end of the season (or when there is time) and put together 4 All Star teams that will play a double round robin where the best only get selected, top 4 flyhalves spread, top 4 scrumhalves etc.

It can be done, but we need to be astute in the planning.

GunsGerms wrote:Ive heard you lament Chiliboys inculsion at times too Bill. However, on the whole there have been some really good players that slot into the "ACI" category. Interesting Kirchener didnt make the list.

gboycottnut I honestly doubt you are racist so sorry probably shouldnt have implied that. However, I dont think you can really claim that the introduction of what FA0019 calls "ACI" players is the sole reason for SAs struggle for form.

Guns, I just think he is too small. He is a solid provincial player, but his size worries me. Especially seeing that our scrum is not what it used to be

I don't understand how rugby in SA can be so well supported and yet they have no cash to pay their best players. Is it just because of the weak currency? Average attendances are much higher than in England for example aren't they?

screamingaddabs.

You need to understand that with a currnecy near 1/10 the strength of most major currencies players who save can bring back stacks of money.

You can't do much with a million pounds in the UK, but you can do a hellavu lot with 1 million pounds in SA.

with that amount of money you can buy yourself a 300 sqm house in an middle upperclass suburb, invest your money and live the life off the interest.

Apart from that nobody knows what the guys get here or what happens to the money SARU makes.

gboycottnut wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:In Wales we thought that professionalism would stop the drain of our best players going to rugby league. But it has only meant we lose them to wealthier countries top clubs.

Apparently the former Wales number 8 forward Paul Moriarty's son is now playing for England in Rugby League!

One of the Moriarty's lads is a flanker at Gloucester. Good player too. Also been nabbed by the English school boys system.

BB

I respect you think that Jacobs wasn't as good as Fourie I myself do also. But that doesn't mean he wasn't worthy of a squad place. He was/is easily better than Maisiekind & co. and with Steyn playing 15 for me he was in the top 3 centres in SA at the time.

White never capped him once. Didn't rate him.

Whether he was the very best or not... he was far better than a lot of players who White capped at centre throughout the duration of his tenure.

The one thing Jacobs had was versatility. He had a step which neither Steyn, JDV, Fourie, James or Maisiekind could match. He was a plan B player, route 1 is all the above players have/had. Jacobs was a smarter footballer and for me well worthy of his test status.

Firstly, would just like to say, Saffers have brilliant names, Chilliboy was my fav but has now been usurped by Bismark Du Plessis.
On this issue, whilst I not as informed on SA rugby as you, what could be done now? Surely Pandoras box has been opened. Look at football, surely once rugby went pro we were always headed in that direction(to a lesser extent obviously). In reality money is king in this world. To fans like us, yeah we would love nothing more than to have been blessed with the talents of top players and would play for our country/home club for free. But that has always been a pipedream, for these boys its probably been a strong possibility since 14 years old. Its no surprise that they view their skills as a trade to make money with.
Even if changes were made in 1 nation(eg SA) the money would still be on offer in other places so maybe even more players would leave?

FA, he was very suspect in defence, yes I agree as an attacking runner he had a good step, but again, he went to the ground more often than not.

I agree Meisiekind is poor, but I never rated Adie.

kingjohn7 wrote:Firstly, would just like to say, Saffers have brilliant names, Chilliboy was my fav but has now been usurped by Bismark Du Plessis.
On this issue, whilst I not as informed on SA rugby as you, what could be done now? Surely Pandoras box has been opened. Look at football, surely once rugby went pro we were always headed in that direction(to a lesser extent obviously). In reality money is king in this world. To fans like us, yeah we would love nothing more than to have been blessed with the talents of top players and would play for our country/home club for free. But that has always been a pipedream, for these boys its probably been a strong possibility since 14 years old. Its no surprise that they view their skills as a trade to make money with.
Even if changes were made in 1 nation(eg SA) the money would still be on offer in other places so maybe even more players would leave?

You will never stop them leaving, South africa changing their system will change the world of rugby or pro rugby, but we can keep our structure closer to our chests and give rugby players an ultimatum, you play overseas you won't play Bok rugby.

Oh yes I agree the South Africans consistently produce some of the best rugby names. I always liked Corne Krige. Wouldnt mess with that name.

Think Chilliboy is just a nickname though.

Beats the hell out of 'Melon'

Who is called melon?

How would you keep the 14 provinces strong Bilt (assuming the super XV wasn't around in the same format as now)? I would imagine that WP, The Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks, Bulls plus maybe the Kings would be fairly strong, but how would you try and make it possible for Boland (or similar) to break into that gang to make it more competitive?


A further comment on the rich French clubs. If a IRB global rule meant that fewer foreign players were allowed per team, would that sound a death knell for the likes of Georgia and some of the PI teams? The reason rugby is developing in these 2nd/3rd tier countries is that player are getting exposure to top level pro rugby. So while it would be good if SA and others generally could keep their best talent at home, would it cause the development of the game globally to falter?

Gethin Jenkins

Bathman, effectively you want the talent all to return back to it's original provinces.

1. It will make an immediate impact on the lesser teams who have lost their top players.
2. it will obviously take time, but now the Bulls, Province, sharks etc will have to rely on players developed in their own region and not just run out with a cheque book.
3. The Craven Week has become a bit of a joke in the way the Franchises run aroud during that time to contract future players.
4. If there is a salary cap on these contracts then the provincial teams will retain their players by getting their share of revenue
5. SA needs to remove itself from the grip Super rugby has on it, it is slowly killing our feeding grounds.


Give it five years and the fourteen provinces will provde equals competition and coaches will have to start relying on smarts to play rugby rather than checkbooks and antiquated gameplans.

Bathman, your second part of the question.

the IRB must split the revenue they are currently splitting (majority to top nations) more equally, that will go some way to assisting development in those nations.

I think rugby can learn a lot from the American sports system. The draft lottery where the league winners get the bottom pick in the draft means that talent is spread around.

Since 1996 there have been 6 winners in SR. In the NHL & NFL there have been 11 winners over the same period.

The thing which ACI players like Chilliboy is that they don't get is time in the shirt. People are demanding instant results... they always say that they want world class performances now or fans can bring up "more deserving players" into the mix. White players don't suffer the same fate.

Coaches always have their favourites... I'm sure ENG fans cry blue murder why Johnson picked Steve Borthwick for so long or why Lancaster picks Barritt as 12 today with other (on paper) better players available.

PDV took Chilliboy from the U21 squad and was a believer in him. Meyer has committed a more cardinal sin in sticking with Morne Steyn for so long when he had guys like Grant, Lambie, Jantjies & Goosen better suited to the pivot position this season. There are not many people around in SA today who say that Chilliboy is not a good player anymore.

I know its cricket but look at Jacques Kallis for instance. One of the all-time greats for sure. But when he first started as a youngster he was dire. In his first 20 innings he averaged only 24.... hardly club standard let alone test standard yet SA Cricket had faith in him and he improved.... big time. This is something ACI players can only dream of in my opinion. Its getting better as esp. club rugby ACI players are getting chances.... not just on the wings.
A national coach to their credit cannot choose players who are out of favour in their clubs.

gethin jenkins is called melon.

i was surprised this summer how many SA players signed for Rabo teams stating they wanted to play for their adopted country:

Wales

George Earle: Scarlets
Joe Snyman: Scarlets
Jacobie Adriaanse: Scarlets

Scotland

Joss Strauss: Glasgow
WP Nel: Edinburgh
Izak van der Westhuizen: Edinburgh

Not sure what the contract status with the Irish SA signings. Are the following Project players too?

CJ Stander: Munster
Quinn Roux: Leinster
Danie Poolman: Connacht.

Italian teams signed the likes of Dries van Schalkwyk.

It not only the NH teams that are doing it - haven't the Brumbies signed Etienne Oosthuizen as their foreign development player for the next two Super Rugby seasons?

I know it's all within the rules, but it still doesn't sit comfortably with me. Wish the IRB looked into this.

Sias Ebersohn has just joined the Western Force as a development player... in which contractually meant he pledged himself to AUS.

The same happened with Dan Vickerman and Clyde Rathbone.

I would imagine they are told the contract is on condition that they pledge themselves to their host national team and the financial rewards are far better because of it???

fa0019:

didn't the cheetahs lose up to 4-5 locks this summer? not sure how they are suppose to remain competitive when practically they are stripped of their entire second rows.

Yes, 4

Carl Wegner (Gallo Images)
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Robshaw remains Eng skipper O'Driscoll to miss Bok Test ABs to try different skipper Cape Town - The Cheetahs have lost their fourth lock to club rugby in Europe after Carl Wegner signed with French side Stade Francais.

Wegner joins Izak van der Merwe (Edinburgh), George Earle (Llanelli Scarlets) and Griquas' Frikkie Spies as the fourth lock from the central franchise to head to European clubs. It is still unsure what club Spies will join after he didn't extend his contract with the Kimberley side.