Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints Saturday 19 January 2013 1335

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue 15 Jan 2013, 5:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well who does Toonie select for this game when he is about to lose 19 players to the Scottish 6Ns squad ?
Can the Warriors break this year's Heino duck ?
Can Saints win a 5 pointer, and, depending on results elsewhere still go through to the 1/4s?
Any Saints supporters travelling - the SRU site looks like Scotstoun is near capacity?

For me :

Welsh MacArthur Kalman
Swinson Ryder
Strauss, Wilson Fusaro (Harley if Fozzy not fit))
Kennedy Weir
Horne Dunbar
DTH Hogg Maitland

is my 15 to start with.

by Imperialbigdave Sat 19 Jan 2013, 3:47 pm

wonder try by horne, played his way into the 22 for HQ?

Im not buying Morrisons good game. He does this everytime he gets dropped for scotland, only to revert back to mediocrity once he gets reinstated.

by TJ1 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 3:48 pm

Glasgow looked the better side and played well indeed. Does this mean its time for the Scots optimistimeter to swing back to " we will win the 6N"?

by funnyExiledScot Sat 19 Jan 2013, 3:50 pm

Great result glasgow. Congratulations on restoring a bit of pride for scots rugby in the competition.

by **RDW** Sat 19 Jan 2013, 3:54 pm

Great result Glasgow! Yahoo

how we're the Scotland boys? Twitter said Maitland played well?

by Imperialbigdave Sat 19 Jan 2013, 3:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great result Glasgow!

how we're the Scotland boys? Twitter said Maitland played well?

He butchered a definate try by tripping over his own feet at one point, but yeah, otherwise quite good.

by yappysnap Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:05 pm

God Saints were awful. Half the players look like they've never met and what an idiotic punch at the end there Doh

Congrats Glasgow, deserved winners

by markb Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:08 pm

Northampton were their own worst enemy in that game, handing Glasgow the win with a ridiculous number of unforced handling errors and a gameplan that didn't aim to sensibly build.

More or less immaterial though, they were extremely unlikely to qualify for the final stages even if they got the 4th try, and the lack of concern about an Amlin place was correct, they really need to concentrate on the Premiership this season, they've been a lacklustre side that look like they'll lose their place at the top table to the likes of Wasps, Gloucester & Exeter. Maybe King will work wonders for them next season, if not Mallinder should really move on from them.

by Morgannwg Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great result Glasgow!

how we're the Scotland boys? Twitter said Maitland played well?

Not sure why he would get singled out for a mention. There were plenty of other better players for Glasgow, as always your Fijian scrum half was one of those. The try at the end was one of the best I've seen for a while.

by Artful_Dodger Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:15 pm

Well played Glasgow clap

by bsando Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:35 pm

Yeah loads of the young uncapped Scotland players put there hand up for a spot in the Scotland starting XV today.

by TJ1 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:41 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great result Glasgow!

how we're the Scotland boys? Twitter said Maitland played well?

Stats here

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2012-13/rugby/match/167671.html.

Glasgow backs looked very good. Optimisticometer for the 6N set to " grand slam" Whistle

by Hood83 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:47 pm

markb wrote:Northampton were their own worst enemy in that game, handing Glasgow the win with a ridiculous number of unforced handling errors and a gameplan that didn't aim to sensibly build.

More or less immaterial though, they were extremely unlikely to qualify for the final stages even if they got the 4th try, and the lack of concern about an Amlin place was correct, they really need to concentrate on the Premiership this season, they've been a lacklustre side that look like they'll lose their place at the top table to the likes of Wasps, Gloucester & Exeter. Maybe King will work wonders for them next season, if not Mallinder should really move on from them.

They really have gone backwards. Their pack looks half the pack it's been in the recent past. They have very little dynamism there and the traditional strong ball-carrying has evaporated. The less said about the backs the better, but Waldouck has been poor. I honestly think Mallinder took them as far as he could and they need fresh ideas now.

by IanBru Sat 19 Jan 2013, 4:59 pm

Just home from the fortress. Aaaaaand...

What a ridiculous game! Great advert for rugby in Glasgow. They say the difference between genius and insanity lies in the bounce of a rugby ball. Nico proved that today. Ref lucky to escape Scotstoun alive. Utter sh7te from start to glorious finish. Also a lovely, positive and passionate atmosphere today - great day to support the Warriors!!

More coherent analysis will come when I've got the icicles off my te****les.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Sat 19 Jan 2013, 5:11 pm

Nothing to see here!

by Dorothy_Mantooth Sat 19 Jan 2013, 5:24 pm

Good, sorry Great result for Glasgow!

Considering we we basically played the last 10 mins with 13 men, with Niko and Jedi both done in, it showed great character to get the win.

Nicko got MOM and fair enough, I thought Kellock and Morrison where both immense.

Maitland at least has proved he has Scottish blood, he had a clear run in from 5m and made a mess of it. How anyone on twitter singled him out for positive attention mindboggling.

by HammerofThunor Sat 19 Jan 2013, 5:47 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:Maitland at least has proved he has Scottish blood, he had a clear run in from 5m and made a mess of it. How anyone on twitter singled him out for positive attention mindboggling.

by GLove39 Sat 19 Jan 2013, 6:28 pm

Weird that only 2 seasons ago Northampton were 1 half away from being Heineken Cup champions and now to this.

by jimbopip Sat 19 Jan 2013, 8:19 pm

A game that could have easily gone to the Saints. If the police find a body wearing a 17 jersey dumped beside the M74 I won't be surprised.
Initial impressions;
GRANT- immense in the loose when he came, nailed on to start at Twickers
MACARTHUR- very impressive in the loose, hit his jumpers consistently, possible start
HALL -pretty much as above, though not quite as dynamic
LOW- Think Tongapardonthespellingweei had him in the scrum
Big AL-Led from the front, abrasive, brave, could start
WILSON- quieter than usual, no telling breaks, could miss out
KENNEDY- started with poor box kick which led to a try, to put ins to scrumm shot out other side! Might be an international one day but not yet.
G DOG - put heart and soul into the fight, as ever showed tremendous courage, does he lack the creativity Scotland need? Possibly, but we are lucky to have in a Glasgow jersey. What would'nt the MFL give to have his spirit coursing through their team?
JACKSON- looked good till he was taken out with a very cheap shot, it wasn't the first so they were obviously targetting him, does this mean they rate him? If fit will probably start at HQ
MAITLAND- had a typical winger's bad day, ( I know whereof I speak), always seemed to get the ball just as openings were closing and when the try line is calling like a wanton hussy has premature grounding of the ball. (ooh er missus). Should deffo start at Twickers nonetheless
SEYMOUR- Solid game but did not do anything to take the breath away, see Max Evans' stunning pass for Castres.
HOGG- one of his better games of late - acertain start
Horne and Dunbar did their cause no harm, probably in the 22

by Manky-Flanker Sat 19 Jan 2013, 9:36 pm

Great try by Horne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpP-S1Rs4M

Although the Northampton 21 seemed to slow down and stop chasing 3 times! If I was a NS fan I wouldn't be happy with that half-hearted attempt to tackle!

by IanBru Sat 19 Jan 2013, 10:03 pm

Thanks for finding this Manky!

My brother called me at 80 minutes (by his watch), and I was speaking to him while Horne scored. I can at least show him why I dissolved into a gabbling, swearing eejit all the sudden!

by MrsP Sat 19 Jan 2013, 10:24 pm

IanBru wrote:Thanks for finding this Manky!

My brother called me at 80 minutes (by his watch), and I was speaking to him while Horne scored. I can at least show him why I dissolved into a gabbling, swearing eejit all the sudden!

Did he notice the change Ian?

Chuffed that Glasgow got something from this game as they have been better in this competition at times than the "wins" column reflects!

clap

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 20 Jan 2013, 9:02 am

What a fantastic 2nd 40. Every player who appeared was a hero. Saints forwards were a disgrace esp the 2nd half. That cretin who threw the punch and got carded was ignored by his teammates at the end. Nico brilliant, Strauss immense, Tom Ryder playing back row when Wilson went off injured excellent, Kellock immense, and that try by Peter Horne - try of the season for me.

Good travelling support from Saints and a right old knees up in the club afterwards. They deserve better than that display of cheap shots and poor leadership by Hartley. Kellock had him by the throat at one stage !

Hope the injuries to Jackson, MacArthur and Wilson are not too serious.

Referee, Hodges WRFU, was a total incompetent numpty from start to finish and as stated above was lucky to leave Glasgow's West End alive.

Yahoo

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 20 Jan 2013, 10:07 am

Great result for the Weegies

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 20 Jan 2013, 10:50 am

Will be interesting to see how those one eyed morons at Planet Rugby see Horne's try ? Any player playing for an Aviva side scores a try like that and he is propelled into their team of the week even if they have spent the rest of the game scratching their erse !
Glad to see you enjoyed it yesterday RD - atmosphere amazing throughout -helped by a vocal Saints contingent. Very Happy

by Cryptoyourisan Sun 20 Jan 2013, 12:32 pm

Slept in and missed the game yesterday. That try by Horne was crazy! Scotland have to be looking at him and Dunbar in the centres!

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:01 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
Good travelling support from Saints and a right old knees up in the club afterwards. They deserve better than that display of cheap shots and poor leadership by Hartley. Kellock had him by the throat at one stage !

Which doesn't reduce him to Hartley's level at all.

by **George Carlin** Sun 20 Jan 2013, 1:20 pm

gelodge wrote:
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
Good travelling support from Saints and a right old knees up in the club afterwards. They deserve better than that display of cheap shots and poor leadership by Hartley. Kellock had him by the throat at one stage !

Which doesn't reduce him to Hartley's level at all.

Gelodge - does this mean that your Lions '99' call would have consisted of a stiffly worded letter?

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:06 pm

It means that criticising opposition players for thuggish behaviour and then condoning you your own player grabbing someone by the throat is hypocritical and insincere.

If the '99' call happened today most of the players would be yellow/red carded or later cited by video evidence and banned from the rest of the tour, with people calling them thugs and idiots for putting their side in the sh1t. Whether we like it or not the best leadership is to man up, control yourself and not react to any provocation. Some aren't capable of that, the best professionals are. It's not the amateur era anymore, players have the extra demands as role models who have all their professional actions televised to live up to.

I've laughed off a punch on the pitch before, really riled the guy up, particularly when I got to wave goodbye to him as he was sent off. Far more effective than losing it, getting in a scrap and us both going off.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:10 pm

Grabbing a dirty player and telling him what will happen to him if he does it again is not in the same league as punching someone. a possible penalty / yellow against a red.

anyway - saints got their just deserts as a piece of foul play lost them the chance to win the game and allowed Glasgow to win. Serves them right laughing

by jimbopip Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:18 pm

gelodge wrote:
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
Good travelling support from Saints and a right old knees up in the club afterwards. They deserve better than that display of cheap shots and poor leadership by Hartley. Kellock had him by the throat at one stage !

Which doesn't reduce him to Hartley's level at all.

gel you are perilously close to criticising St Al patron saint of the misunderstood Glaswegian. He was merely checking that Hartley's carotid artery was allowing blood to his brain: lots of people have been concerned about that for some time but only St Al had the compassion to check.

by IanBru Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:21 pm

I seem to remember Kevin Bridges doing a bit about Glasgow being Britain's murder capital, whilst also having been voted Europe's friendliest city - they'll stab you, then give you directions to the hospital...

So true!

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:22 pm

TJ wrote:Grabbing a dirty player and telling him what will happen to him if he does it again is not in the same league as punching someone. a possible penalty / yellow against a red.

anyway - saints got their just deserts as a piece of foul play lost them the chance to win the game and allowed Glasgow to win. Serves them right

Hartley wasn't the guy throwing punches as far as I'm aware. Grabbing a guy in general and having a word is fine. Grabbing someone by the throat is completely unnecessary and can easily result in a penalty against you, maybe even a yellow if there is an officious ref. Poor leadership.

by jimbopip Sun 20 Jan 2013, 2:47 pm

gel, old bean, I love rugby and I'm sure we have that in common, but the biggest moral dilemma I have is this: it is a game for bullies. Always was always will be. We all want to play open running skillful rugby, or at least those of us not numbered 1-5, but we understand that big nasty bullies will try to stop us by any means necessary. Standing up to that is all part of the game' s attraction. Hartley is clearly not an advocate of Human Rights and if you did not see him throwing punches that proves nothing: hookers do most of their work up very dark alleys where there are few witnesses. St Al was merely trying to drag him into the light and engage him in some Socratic dialogue.
Seriously, Kellock, Glasgow's captain, was making a very public statement to the referee and his team-mates about what would and wouldn't be tolerated. To paraphrase Jim Telfer, I know who I would want standing beside me on a wet Wednesday night in Auckland when four Maoris are bearing down on you. I admire your sense of decency, gel, but I believe the Glasgow players love Big Al and I fully understand why.

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:36 pm

It's got nothing to do with decency jimbopip, it's what you can get away with in modern rugby with a camera pointed from every angle, miked assistants and increasingly tight legislation on what is deemed acceptable and the punishments for what isn't. The same point could be made by Kellock just as poignantly without jeopardising his team to penalisation. To do as he did is poor control and leadership, which if he continues, sooner or later will see his side unnecessarily suffer.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:40 pm

Gelodge - nonsense when you compare to Hartley as you did. Kellock could have given away a penalty. Hartley leads a team whos ill discipline cont them the game. Look at the disciplinary records of the two of them and you will see which one is the leader. Kellock knows exactly how far to go, Hartley is an idiot with a short fuse.

Kelock was not poor control - he was perfectly controlled

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:22 pm

Hartley's history of thuggish idiocy is irrelevant, the point is that Kellock needs to remain above such players whatever they do, or as you agree he may get penalised which doesn't benefit his side in any way. The best leaders turn every situation to their team's advantage and in modern rugby that involves more control than Kellock showed. Reacting to idiot windups like Hartley and his sort plays straight into their hands. If he does something sneaky in the depths of a maul, you grabbing him by the throat right in front of the ref is exactly what he wants, don't give him the satisfaction, he's not going to be intimidated by it, it serves no purpose. Grab him by the shirt if you have to, make your point to the ref, but more than that often ends up hampering your team.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:26 pm

Nonsense - utter nonsense. Kellock does this in a controlled manner - its about putting the opposition in the wrong. Its not done in temper or in an uncontrolled manner reacting to windups. Its about establishing dominance ands provoking the oposition into throwing punches and he does not get penalised for it.

Kellock may not be a world class lock but his does not lose his temper and leads from the front and shows the opposition there is a line not to be crossed without actually giving away penalties.

by jimbopip Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:31 pm

TJ gel, I'm not sure which of you I would rather go for a small refreshment with, probably both, but I'm beginning to have just the sneakiest of suspicions who I would like to play alongside. (no offence gel)

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:33 pm

jimbo - I was a fancyboy in the backs hid behind the big chaps when it got physical :-)

by jimbopip Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:36 pm

In which case you were probably standing on my toes cos I got there first.

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:45 pm

Kellock could have achieved exactly the same objective by grabbing Hartley in a different manner, going for the throat was unnecessary, potentially damaging to his side and uncharacteristically lowering.

If you don't understand that a ref might penalise a player for grabbing someone by the throat whatever manner it is conducted in, especially if he hasn't seen what might have sparked the incident, then there really is no hope in discussing the matter further with you, your understanding of it is fatally flawed.

by gelodge Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:51 pm

You might have preferred to play alongside TJ jimbopip, but the difference is that you'd be having a refreshment with me to celebrate as a fellow member of the winning side and drinking to drown you woes with TJ because he'd got sent off, costing his side the game and not being being able to play for a few weeks.

by TJ1 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 4:58 pm

gelodge - which team lost because of ill discipline?

I have seen kellock do this a good few times - never seen him penalised for it. Its not an act done in temper.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:08 pm

jimbopip wrote:
gelodge wrote:
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:
Good travelling support from Saints and a right old knees up in the club afterwards. They deserve better than that display of cheap shots and poor leadership by Hartley. Kellock had him by the throat at one stage !

Which doesn't reduce him to Hartley's level at all.
gel you are perilously close to criticising St Al patron saint of the misunderstood Glaswegian. He was merely checking that Hartley's carotid artery was allowing blood to his brain: lots of people have been concerned about that for some time but only St Al had the compassion to check.

by GLove39 Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:45 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0UWfEwTCOhw better version of the Horne try (commentary & replays) Run

by johnpartle Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:47 pm

I have to say I agree with Gelodge here, grabbing a player by the throat however it is done and irrespective of the provocation is not sensible play. It didn't lead to problems for Kellock and Glasgow this time but it easily could have, I've seen referees issue cards and reverse penalties for a lot less.

by Imperialbigdave Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:52 pm

GLove39 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0UWfEwTCOhw better version of the Horne try (commentary & replays)

Scott Hastings goes mental there laughing

by IanBru Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:56 pm

Did anyone actually see Kellock grab Hartley by the throat?

Not to belittle the severity of throat-grabbing, or the effort that has gone into this discussion (fun as it is...), but I didn't see anything.

Kellock often grabs players by the collar and issues helpful advice on how best to sauté an onion (or whatever people from Bishopbriggs do in their spare time), but I wouldn't say that Kellock is particularly thuggish.

Like the massive dog that jumps on me when I'm delivering Christmas cards, Kellock is 'just being friendly'.

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 20 Jan 2013, 6:56 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:
GLove39 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0UWfEwTCOhw better version of the Horne try (commentary & replays)

Scott Hastings goes mental there

Indeed, although I will admit to going a bit mental myself when it happened... Unfortunately this was beside the Saints bench so got a few dirty looks from Tongauiha and Hartley!! Erm

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sun 20 Jan 2013, 7:06 pm

Kellock grabbed Hartley to offer him some advice - i.e put down a nasty wee bullying tw**. If he did not grab him by the throat he got a hold of him in some other way. Whistle

Advice was along the lines of - "welcome to glasgow you dirty little fecker, we are about to lob your schize team out of Europe so feckin behave or you will be going to the GWI"

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