v2 G.O.A.T Round 1 Group 14

First topic message reminder :

Wednesday group was dominated by the only Ice Hockey entrant Wayne Gretzky, he bagged 58% of the vote and sails into round 2 alongside crickets Garfield Sobers. Exiting the competition at the first stage are Kenenisa Bekele and Franz Beckenbauer who only managed a combined 11 votes.

Today we have just the one article written by forum members, please feel free to submit your own argument below for the ones not championed.

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should progress into the next round.

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Muhammad Ali- Boxing- Championed by 6oldenbhoy

When I offered to take part in this exercise I was originally asked to champion another fighter. I had my reservations as, in my opinion, this man’s aura was built more on the reputation he had acquired rather than his in ring achievement (though I must admit he did achieve a heck of a lot). I had no such qualms with the second option, the self proclaimed ‘Greatest’ Muhammad Ali. At this point I must admit that, although I have been a fight fan for many years, some of my earliest memories are of watching Michael Carruth and Wayne McCullough in the Barcelona Olympics and no Saturday night was complete with watching the boxing on ITV, I have never been a massive fan of Ali. I have seen almost all of his fights, viewed all the major documentaries and read various articles on the man but I've always had an almost take it or leave it attitude towards him. However, upon undertaking this activity, I have found an admiration and respect for the man who would be a worthy winner of this accolade. His career encompassed everything, monumental highs, catastrophic lows, triumph in the face of adversity, not to mention controversy all now tinged with tragedy. To fit all of this into an article would be an impossible task, such was the effect he had on Boxing and the World around him.

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr was born on the 17/1/1942 to a Methodist father and Baptist mother. Few could have predicted what this child would go on and accomplish. The story begins when at the age of twelve young Cassius had his bicycle stolen. A thirst for revenge drove him to his local boxing gym where he should such aptitude for the sport that in a mere six years he was crowned Olympic Light Heavyweight Champion in Rome in 1960. Nino Benvenuti, the darling of his home crowd, won the Val Barker Trophy but many thought this accolade belonged to Clay.

Upon returning home he promptly turned profession under the tutelage of Angelo Dundee. He quickly developed into a boxer fleet of foot with a stinging jab,lightning reflexes and with more than adequate power. Nineteen straight wins led to a title shot against the fearsome Sonny Liston. Going into the contest Clay was a 7/1 underdog, but won the title when Liston retired on his stool at the end of the sixth round. The rematch wouldn’t last as long, Liston going down in the first. Some claimed Liston took a dive, others claim it was a legitimate punch. The fight did create one the most iconic sporting images of the twentieth century, where Ali (shortly after the Liston fight he had changed his name to Cassius X, then to Muhammad Ali) stands over his fallen opponent screaming at him to continue. Ali went on to defend the title a further eight times.

Muhammad was stripped of his title soon after his final defense against Zora Folley. His boxing license was also revoked and was sentenced to five years in jail. He appealed and remained on bail but was unable to box for three and a half years. Eventually given a license to fight in Atlanta, Ali won the first of two comeback fights before challenging Joe Frazier for the undisputed Heavyweight Championship, in a bout now known as “The Fight of the Century”. It was a thriller from start to finish, Ali starting the faster, but Frazier slowly walked him down. Frazier was ahead on all scorecards going into the final round when he unleashed a tremendous left hook that put Ali on the canvas. Ali bravely rose and heard the final bell but lost a unanimous decision. It was noted that Ali did not have the usual bounce in his step and one could argue showed the effects of three and a half years out.

Ali would not challenge for the World title for another three years. He won thirteen of his next fourteen fights, avenging the only loss he suffered in this period. A win over Joe Frazier set up a bout with Big George Foreman. This was to be Ali’s finest hour. Going into the bout, entitled the “Rumble in the Jungle”, nobody was giving Ali a chance. Ali had suffered losses to both Ken Norton and Joe Frazier whereas Foreman had knocked both of the out in them in the second round. Ali started brightly enough, but then adopted a tactic of lying on the ropes and absorbing punishment from Foreman. Foreman punched but Ali blocked them, shooting out counters of his own at every chance. This tactic, which Ali would later describe as “Rope-a-Dope” would have been seen to be suicide to many but becoming increasingly effective as Foreman threw haymaker after haymaker to down Ali, but Ali took them and answered back with his own. Entering the eighth Foreman was visibly exhausted. Ali pounced, trapping him on the ropes pummeling him with a barrage of blow that put Foreman down. He was unable to answer the count and a New Champion was crowned. Ali defended the title a further three times before facing Joe Frazier in the final installment of their classic trilogy.

The “Thrilla in Manila” took place, funnily enough, in the Filipino capital in front of crowd of 28,000. What followed was fourteen rounds of unsheathed brutality before Frazier was retired on his stool. Frazier’s eyes were so badly swollen that he claimed he couldn't see the punches coming, yet still protested when Eddie Futch withdrew him from the contest. Ali led from the front punishing Frazier with hooks, jabs and uppercuts wobbling Frazier frequently. Frazier gamely fought back every time and in the mid rounds unleashed one of his trademark left hooks right to Ali’s jaw. This punch looked like it could have felled a tree, yet Ali took it and stayed on his feet. By the end of the fight Frazier was taking continuous punishment. In the fourteenth, Ali landed punch after punch on a more and a more helpless Frazier. It was a mercy when the fight was stopped. Ali described the contest as the closest thing to dying he had experienced, whilst showing humility, describing Frazier as the toughest man alive. A further six defenses of the title followed before he lost the title to “Neon” Leon Spinks. He won the title back in the return before retiring. A brief comeback last two fights, both defeats, though Ali was a shell of his former self by this stage.

When people talk of athletes transcending sport, Ali is the one who first comes to mind. When you ask the common man or women on the street who they most associate with the sport of Boxing, Ali’s name will be said most frequently. As big a fan as I am of the Klitschkos, the average person on the street would struggle to name either of them as Heavyweight Champion of the world. When Ali was Champion, it was the exact opposite. He was one of the most recognized faces in the world, never mind sportsmen. This was the reason Sports Illustrated named him Sportsman of the Century, as did the BBC. The Heavyweight Championship of the World was once talked of as the greatest prize in sport and it was fighters like Muhammad Ali that made it so. This is a sport that has so little margin for error. Moving your head even fractionally may have devastating results. As former Heavyweight title challenger Tex Cobb once said "If you screw things up in tennis, it's 15-love. If you screw up in boxing, it's your ass." Ali excelled at this sport even when he had returned a faded fighter physically from his imposed exile. However like all greats at any sport he found other ways to win. His in ring intelligence set him apart from his contemporaries when he had lost the bounce in his step and his reflexes had dulled. It must not be forgotten that he displayed all these skills and attributes in what was the golden period of Heavyweight boxing. While he is remembered for his talents by some, others will recall him for his mouth. Ali was the ultimate showman. The press loved him and although he could be vulgar and downright disrespectful to his opponents at times, it could be said that this hyped fights and helped him to get that mental edge on his opponent. As I alluded to in my opening paragraph, I had my doubts when I was asked to champion another fighter due to his record, I find Ali to be the complete package. His record stands alone as far as Heavyweights go, while he had the showmanship and charisma that contributed to his everlasting legacy on sport. Long after we are all gone people will still talk of Ali. The Ali of today has been ravaged by Parkinsonism, an unwanted souvenir of a career spanning twenty one years inside the ring. Yet to see him light the Olympic flame at the Atlanta games was a one of the most iconic moments of the 20th Century. To this day he continues to battle his condition with just as much courage as he exhibited throughout his career in the ring. It takes a brave man to step through those ropes and Ali has shown both through his career and the aftermath, that he is right up there with the bravest of them all.

Richie McCaw - championed by Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Richard Hugh McCaw has spent the last decade dominating every opponent on the rugby field, in that time winning the International Rugby Board’s Player of the Year award three times, and being the key player in the All Blacks’ 2011 Rugby World Cup win, as well as 8 Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship titles, 3 Northern Hemisphere Grand Slams, 4 Super Rugby titles (the toughest domestic rugby competition on the planet) and 3 runners-up medals with the Crusaders and 6 National Championships with Canterbury.

He was the first New Zealander to play 100 rugby tests – a result of his dominance of his position, as generally the Black jersey is the hardest one to win, and to retain. In his 116 international caps he has been on the winning side over 100 times, more than any other rugby player. Captain of the All Blacks since 2006 he is now the most capped captain NZ has ever had, and he’s simply the greatest player from the world’s greatest rugby nation.

As an open-side flanker he has been consistently the best player in his position throughout his career, brushing off challenges from the likes of George Smith, Marty Holla, Schalk Burger, Heinrich Brussow and David Pocock along the way, while he has also been versatile enough to play on the blindside flank and at number 8 at international level. His great skills are:
His fitness – developed by running 10km every 2nd day from the age of 12,
Pain threshold (medical testing found that after a match his nerve endings resembled those of a burns victim), and he played through the final 3 games of the 2011 Rugby World Cup with 3 broken bones in one foot
Anticipation – his reading of the game of rugby is superb meaning he gets to the right place before most other players,
Adaptability – he is 2nd to none at adjusting his style of play to suit the interpretations. The head of the IRB’s refereeing panel was overheard to say to a senior referee:
“The trouble with McCaw is he’s so fast we can’t see if he’s doing anything illegal.”
“Then how to we control him?”
“We can only penalise what we can see.”

Id say Bolt was more famous than Obama comfortably, an awful lot of people switch off when it comes to politics. Tom Cruise is probably more famous than Obama to the rank and file.

Tyson get humiliated by the Earlier and just beaten by the latter Ali. More important than that - such a mentally frail personality would lose the fight after the word was exchanged.

Most famous man on the planet is Still John Lennon.. Alive is Sir Paul mccartney!

Na - we'd never heard of till we came to the UK. Mr bean is the most famous man of all time.

Michael Jackson is probably the most recogniseable face........especialy amongst young children.

I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

You clearly move in different circles from me, diggers!

Or maybe the queen!

Just possibly see the world from a different perspective Captain.

Diggers wrote:Michael Jackson is probably the most recogniseable face........especialy amongst young children.

Easily, diggers.

mystiroakey wrote:Most famous man on the planet is Still John Lennon.. Alive is Sir Paul mccartney!

Can't stand either of them. Don't think that either are that prominent though, not compared to someone like Usain Bolt, Lance Armstrong, Messi etc.
Quite a lot of actors and musicians would be better known too.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Spinks was unbeaten, and for many he one of the greatest light hv of all time, and he went down in the first. Same for Olympic champions and other hv champions

It's easy to say that nobody Tyson fought was great or very good or to dismiss the guy for his bed behaviour, when in reality the power he generated in a fight was unseen before and never replicated afterwards.

We'll have no Beatle dissing on here, thanks very much

super_realist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Most famous man on the planet is Still John Lennon.. Alive is Sir Paul mccartney!

Can't stand either of them. Don't think that either are that prominent though, not compared to someone like Usain Bolt, Lance Armstrong, Messi etc.
Quite a lot of actors and musicians would be better known too.

Fame is a generational and cultural thing and few have transcended both. I would imagine that most 10-15 year olds haven't heard of Lennon and McArtney - and that's just in the west!

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Apart from the times Shavers and Snipes dumped him on his arris that is

Holmes was knocked down by both Shavers and Snipes, the best part of a decade before fighting Tyson, JK. Granted, he got up to win both fights, but then again, he was in his early 30s back then, rather than nearly 40. I haven't dismissed Tyson's opposition or achievements at any stage, but you are arguing that he would have nailed Ali to the canvas in 4. I profoundly disagree with you there.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Spinks was unbeaten, and for many he one of the greatest light hv of all time, and he went down in the first. Same for Olympic champions and other hv champions

It's easy to say that nobody Tyson fought was great or very good or to dismiss the guy for his bed behaviour, when in reality the power he generated in a fight was unseen before and never replicated afterwards.

I once saw him leap a tall building in a single bound and bullets literally bounce off him.

Stella wrote:We'll have no Beatle dissing on here, thanks very much

Oh come on, surely we can at least take a few pops at Ringo - not even the best drummer in the Beatles

superflyweight wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Spinks was unbeaten, and for many he one of the greatest light hv of all time, and he went down in the first. Same for Olympic champions and other hv champions

It's easy to say that nobody Tyson fought was great or very good or to dismiss the guy for his bed behaviour, when in reality the power he generated in a fight was unseen before and never replicated afterwards.

I once saw him leap a tall building in a single bound and bullets literally bounce off him.

Wrong yet again, the building moved out of the way for him.

George Harrison wrote all the really good songs. I'd quite happily see Macca put down.

dummy_half wrote:

Stella wrote:We'll have no Beatle dissing on here, thanks very much

Oh come on, surely we can at least take a few pops at Ringo - not even the best drummer in the Beatles

He did narrate Thomas The Tank Engine............deserves some credit

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Spinks was unbeaten, and for many he one of the greatest light hv of all time, and he went down in the first. Same for Olympic champions and other hv champions

It's easy to say that nobody Tyson fought was great or very good or to dismiss the guy for his bed behaviour, when in reality the power he generated in a fight was unseen before and never replicated afterwards.

Foreman?

super_realist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Most famous man on the planet is Still John Lennon.. Alive is Sir Paul mccartney!

Can't stand either of them. Don't think that either are that prominent though, not compared to someone like Usain Bolt, Lance Armstrong, Messi etc.
Quite a lot of actors and musicians would be better known too.

nah.

Aucks doent even know who messi is!!

Point about global sport and all that.

I had a really interesting discussion about snooker with an indian on the old 606.

He kept telling me that the world champ snooker player was an indian and that it was allways held in india..

They actually play alot of snooker. yet he(and probally many others) didnt even realsie it was a game played at a much higher level in the UK(and i mean much higher).

He didnt even know who ronnie was or hendry!!

yet he kept listing indian snooker players that i had never heard of- Wheh i checked them out there were at best of top amatuer quality!!

However trust me he knew who John lennon was!!

6oldenbhoy wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:I'd love to have seen the Tyson of 1987 try to lay a glove on the Ali of 67, JK. If, and it's a big if, he'd have managed it, he'd have found one of boxing's greatest chins. Meanwhile, Ali would likely have been landing at the rate of 5 to 1. Ali was never frightened of anyone. Remove the aura of intimidation from the Tyson of the late 80s and he was half the fighter. Ali could beat you any which way in his heyday and his versatility would have been far too much for Mike, in my view.

Holmes was never knoced down, he went down in four.

Spinks was unbeaten, and for many he one of the greatest light hv of all time, and he went down in the first. Same for Olympic champions and other hv champions

It's easy to say that nobody Tyson fought was great or very good or to dismiss the guy for his bed behaviour, when in reality the power he generated in a fight was unseen before and never replicated afterwards.

Foreman?

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, "Georgie, You'll never believe this but, Frak' Tyson is scared Poopie less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that Frak' animal, if you love the mother Frak so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/foreman_tyson_fl.html Full article.

Are we going to have a Music GOAT ater this?

he mentioned the below lad alot- saying that he won the world championship- I was clearly very bemused(he didnt realise the real one was held at sheffield!

"Pankaj Advani won the World Snooker Championship conducted by IBSF in 2003 in China. At 18, he became the youngest Indian to lift the title"

Pankaj highest ever break is 143 btw!

I truely didnt even know there was an IBSF amatuer wc at the time(maybe my ignorance)

but he didnt even realise there was a proper profesional snooker tour!!


anyway i suppose i am going abit of topic. But yeah it was suprising to me!! How we are all told what to believe by our own surrondings is clearly massive!!

Stella wrote:Are we going to have a Music GOAT ater this?

awesome idea dude!

Billiards, that was, mystir. For some reason, presumably linked with prodigious feats of patience, India have been pretty good at this dullest of all spectator sports in recent years. A bloke called Geet Sethi won the title about five times recently.

Although Ali is probably a shoe-in from this group, I'm not convinced by him as overall G.O.A.T.
I'm not a massive boxing fan, but I've read that a number of boxing experts don't rate Ali as even the best heavyweight ever, preffering Joe Louis. Add in some of the disgaceful insults he threw at Frazier and the fact that a number of the 'soundbytes' that made Ali famous, such as his 'Ain't no Vietnamese ever called me n!gger" line, were fed to him by the Nation of Islam and he's not quite the outstsanding candidate that he might have seemed.
However, as I said, he deserves to progress from this group, but I'm not sure how much further he should go.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Billiards, that was, mystir. For some reason, presumably linked with prodigious feats of patience, India have been pretty good at this dullest of all spectator sports in recent years. A bloke called Geet Sethi won the title about five times recently.

nah he also won the world champ snooker(amatuer)

However the poster in question thought that was the pinnacle acheivment for snooker- he didnt know about the pro game!

Stella wrote:Senna made one great film and that was his lot.

Please tell me this is a joke.

MIG wrote:

Stella wrote:Senna made one great film and that was his lot.

Please tell me this is a joke.

very true MIG- he wasnt even alive when it was made.. He certainly didnt make that film!

Pankaj Advani recently chose to play the World Billiards championship over a snooker ranking event. Wasting his opportunity as he was given a wild card on snooker main tour.

The World Billiards Championship is played in front of 2 men and a dog (in Leeds I think) the winner gets about £5k. Seems like an odd decision to me!

very odd!!

But from what i heard he is quite massive in india.. Therefore maybe he just loves the success in his small pond!

Voted for Ali, don't really need to explain why though I haven't had time to read the write up sadly.

McCaw, I watch a bit RU but could not really tell a good player from a bad one unless its in the more noticable positions e.g. wing, fly-half.

Johnson is a personal hero of mine but I thought that was a team that seemed to have quite a few great players.

Senna is a great but should have achieved more. I loved watching his battles with Prost anyway, back when I actually used to follow F1.

mystiroakey wrote:very odd!!

But from what i heard he is quite massive in india.. Therefore maybe he just loves the success in his small pond!

He's definitely being accused of that. Hearn won't stick it for long, does he want the opportunity or not?

MIG wrote:

Stella wrote:Senna made one great film and that was his lot.

Please tell me this is a joke.

No, it was a brilliant film. Yes of course I jest. Senna was a great and on the edge type driver but we unfortunately will never know how great he could have been.

Ali all the way I think. As good as McCaw is (and he's exceptional) I'm not sure I can give it to him over Ali.
Despite people's negative remarks re. Senna, he was also exceptional.
Not quite sure why Johnson is up here TBH. Good player and great leader of a great side but he wasn't near being the best player in an England team that could boast Richard Hill (up there for best blind side ever maybe), Back, Dallaglio, Leonard, Wilkinson, Greenwood, Robinson etc and that's just the England of that era.

VTR wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:very odd!!

But from what i heard he is quite massive in india.. Therefore maybe he just loves the success in his small pond!

He's definitely being accused of that. Hearn won't stick it for long, does he want the opportunity or not?

well I know most would and clearly Hearn wants to get Inida in to the pro game!! The potential is massive as they are allready established even if only in the amatuer game

went with Ali from this group. An extraordinary boxer, but of course his legacy goes well beyond just that. He transcended his sport like perhaps no other sportsman in history has. Is a serious contender for the overall title IMO.

Senna is another good candidate IMO, who doesn't seem to be getting much attention on here? Arguably the fastest ever driver, certainly the best ever in the wet. A lot of fans see him as the best ever F1 driver though I'm not sure about that personally.

Johnson was more than just a "good" player, he was a genuine all-time great, and would certainly make it into most people's all-time world XV sides (alongside Eales in the second row). A great leader of course too, who led England to the ultimate glory. I think he deserves a place in the 64, but shouldn't be an overall contender.

McCaw is another worthy candidate (in the 64). I repeat that I don't think not voting for someone on the basis that you don't know enough about them is right. That's a poster's failing. Yesterday I voted for Gretsky (sp?) despite never having even heard the name before, on the back of the case made for him. McCaw is IMO the best open-side in history (though there's some stiff competition there so he doesn't make all world all-time XVs), he's certainly been the best player in the world for the best part of the last ten years. Again, I think in this group him and Johnson fall somewhat behind Senna, and a fair way behind Ali, but they deserve a mention in the 64.

Ali - Like many don't think he deserves the ultimate GOAT but goes through this round.

Had Senna in my mind as I think he's in the supremely talented but not quite category (that doesn't formally exist).

McCaw, possibly GOAT rugby (based on the write up as I do not know of him) but justification seems to be he's fit, he's hard, he can read the game and (by implication from the quotes) knows how to get away with dirty play. He seems like an excellent rugby player. Don't think he's transcended his sport.

Johnson? Good rugby player, good on field leader. The end. Wouldn't win if it was him, McCaw Hastings (missed that day btw, really in the list?) and Lomu. Might make the podium in third.

My English heart made me vote for Martin Johnson, so I did.

Good boy Duty!

If I am gonna be honest its the same reason I did!

Cut that heart out and re-read the reason we're doing this...it's to vote for the Greatest Sportsman / Woman of all time. Not your favourite Englishman. Madness

boooooo..

mystiroakey wrote:boooooo..

Johnson for 4th!

Thats only because you kiwis wanted him!

He would have been the most succesfull All black ever in your team!

You might have even got a WC in that time!