France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

[Ospreydragon]

First topic message reminder :

A very interesting opening weekend in the 6N. Good wins for Ireland and England, and a great one for Italy, who showed some nice touches and are devloping their play (unlike Wales).

Here's a typically hyperbolic journalist (or sub-editor's headline) in today's Express:

"Rob Howley Planning to Dump Failures"

http://www.sundayexpress.co.uk/posts/view/375256/Rob-Howley-planning-to-dump-failures

Nothing in the article to state who is going to be dumped, and no surprise there.

Will Howley have the cojones to drop some players? Jenkins, Shingler, and one of the centres? We'll see!

[wales606]

Evans only made one mistake carrying too high - and that was partly the supports fault

He made a hell of a lot of carries in the first half, and still lasted 73 minutes. He is also vital if we want to win any of our lineout ball - he is our best lineout jumper and without Alun Wyn Jones or Charteris, we would be in trouble without Evans

[Ospreydragon]

wales606, Can't remember how many times he caught upright, nor how many times he may have lost the ball in contact or missed a tackle, but was impressed he lasted so long and grafted. He is a class player and needs the game time to get to match fitness. It wasn't so long ago that he was superb in a Wales shirt, which is a lot more than you can say about Gethin and a few others.

[Casartelli]

Can't blame Howley for all the injuries and Jenkins being rusty I suppose.

You could blame him for not going with;

James, Hibbard, Adam, Kohn, Evans, Warburton/Faletau, Ryan, Tipuric.

Which actually looks like it could compete physically. Ryan's experience would be good at 8 and either Warbs or Faletau would do a vastly superior job to Shingler or Coombs at 6 at this level.

[manofgwent]

Can only think that Ryan Jones isn't 100%. I'd have thought we'd have had to start with an out and out 6. It should never be a case of play your best 15 players and fit them in somehow. I honestly think the pack could take a stuffing!!
I didn't expect too many changes as wakes have persisted with the same style of play for a while now and there doesn't seem to be any flexibilty whatsoever.
Anyone thinking Hook would start s dreaming. He doesn't suit the one-dimensional style that Wales play. We're too predictable. France will know what's coming, like we all do.
Expect the inept Cuthbert to be chasing shadows for 80 minutes!!
Lumping on France -8 for sure. Made £75 last weekend backing the Irish. I must be the only person who is loving the clueless Howley as head-coach!!

[manofgwent]

On Coombs. I thought he was superb for his debut. He showed great heart and passion. He may not be as talented as some, but maybe those more talented players don't have the heart as they're in the comfort zone. Some players seem undroppable. It reminds me of Sven's England team. Pick your best 11 and fit them into a team. What a joke!!
For me Coombs will not have many caps. He's not as talented as the likes of AWJ or Charteris and eventually I'm sure he'll be found out at this level. I just think everyone admired what it meant to him to play for his country. He's not stupid. He knows that he's only in because of an injury crisis, but I wish the rest of the team showed his heart. We've become too complacent.

[Casartelli]

Coombs gave it 100% and didn't let anyone down. Should be proud of what he's done. I think he could have been effective off the bench, after Kohn's bulk, power and experience in the 2nd row had contained the Irish, maybe, or punched a few holes with Wales' infamous bishbosh tactics. Then Coombs would have had some space when the game opened up.

I can only assume that Howley thinks a grannygate player is less controversial if they don't actually start the game?

[Ospreydragon]

Casartelli, "Howley" and "thinks". Now there's a stretch. I have a real problem connecting the two.

[Glas a du]

He's bowed to pressure with Tipuric and Warburton. However for that luxury you need two top class second rows (one isn't fit and the other's a 6) and your best front row. In other words, yes you can have Jenkins as he's bound to hit form sometime, you can have Coombes because he has plenty of heart, and yes you can play your lightweight back row, but you can't do all three against a pack the size of France's without getting your head stuffed up your ARSE!

[maestegmafia]

Is it still all Howleys fault?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Howley's one step ahead of you, Glas - his head's already there.

Maes, we're discussing selection. Who should we blame? The players?

[Glas a du]

Is it still all Howleys fault?

He's not a volunteer. He has miles more pull than coaches even 10 years ago. OF COURSE IT'S HIS BLYDI FAULT!

[maestegmafia]

Is it still all Howleys fault?

He's not a volunteer. He has miles more pull than coaches even 10 years ago. OF COURSE IT'S HIS BLYDI FAULT!

It's lovely to have a reason for all your failures that is so concise, so pivotal. I hope for all our sakes that Howley has had a better week training and this weekend he doesn't miss simple tackles, fail to defend at rucks, turn over possession, miss line outs and passes to overlapping outside backs.

Then that would make a difference.

[manofgwent]

There are question marks over Ian evans fitness. Coombs is naturally a blindside and Warburton is out of position. And we're going to Paris with the French having a load to prove. It's going to be the mother of all performances not to get battered!!!
Ryan jones had to start a 6. I thought he was available?!?!

[RubyGuby]

Without a powerful platform AGAIN we're doomed

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jonathan Davies
12. Jamie Roberts
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar
9. Mike Phillips

1. Paul James
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Ollie Kohn
5. Ian Evans
6. Andrew Coombs
8. Toby Faletau
7. Justin Tipuric (Warburton)

Power and we might win a line out or 2 with that team. Tipuric to come on for Coombs or Kohn after 50 as he's likely to go with Warbs to begin with

[Glas a du]

Is it still all Howleys fault?

He's not a volunteer. He has miles more pull than coaches even 10 years ago. OF COURSE IT'S HIS BLYDI FAULT!

It's lovely to have a reason for all your failures that is so concise, so pivotal. I hope for all our sakes that Howley has had a better week training and this weekend he doesn't miss simple tackles, fail to defend at rucks, turn over possession, miss line outs and passes to overlapping outside backs.

Then that would make a difference.

So why appoint a coach at all? Why demand contracts so they can have quality time with the coach before big tournaments? Why have lots of mini-coaches to look after different parts of the team? Why call Warren Gatland a Grand Slam winning coach?

Because the days of the captain being the boss and determining tactics ended in the 70's, that's why. I believe that the cult of the coach has gone too far as well, but if they are there for the plaudits, they are there for the Poopie.

Why do teams start badly? Selection, tactics and motivation.

What is Howley respionsible for?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Saint-Andre's named his team:

Y Huget (Toulouse); W Fofana (Clermont Auvergne), M Mermoz (Toulon), M Bastareaud (Toulon), B Fall (Racing Metro); F Michalak (Toulon), M Machenaud (Racing Metro); Y Forestier (Castres), D Szarzewski (Racing Metro), N Mas (Perpignan), J Suta (Toulon), Y Maestri (Toulouse), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), T Dusautoir (Toulouse, capt), L Picamoles (Toulouse).

Replacements: B Kayser (Clermont Auvergne), V Debaty (Clermont Auvergne), L Ducalcon (Castres), R Taofifenua (Perpignan), D Chouly (Clermont Auvergne), M Parra (Clermont Auvergne), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), F Fritz (Toulouse).

[GunsGerms]

Saint-Andre's named his team:

Y Huget (Toulouse); W Fofana (Clermont Auvergne), M Mermoz (Toulon), M Bastareaud (Toulon), B Fall (Racing Metro); F Michalak (Toulon), M Machenaud (Racing Metro); Y Forestier (Castres), D Szarzewski (Racing Metro), N Mas (Perpignan), J Suta (Toulon), Y Maestri (Toulouse), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), T Dusautoir (Toulouse, capt), L Picamoles (Toulouse).

Replacements: B Kayser (Clermont Auvergne), V Debaty (Clermont Auvergne), L Ducalcon (Castres), R Taofifenua (Perpignan), D Chouly (Clermont Auvergne), M Parra (Clermont Auvergne), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), F Fritz (Toulouse).

Wales are going to have a field day v Michelak. North coming off his wing will be fun.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We need to be careful with Michalak early doors. It's all well and good targetting him and trying to put in a few hits, but if we fly up with that in mind, he's quite capable of dancing inside and linking with the French back row.

[wales606]

If Roberts fronts up to bastareaud and keeps him collared behind or on the gain line then he could become a bit of a liability for France.

I'm glad parra and trinh-duc are not starting.

[GunsGerms]

Is Rougerie injured?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm glad parra and trinh-duc are not starting.

Same here - but if we leave it as late as we did against Ireland to start playing, they'll probably have come off the bench by then.

[lostinwales]

Anyone know if there were any citings after the Ireland Wales match?

I did see Shingler throw an uppercut on Heaslip in a ruck early on, but given that it probably had as much effect as the rest of his game I am not surprised its been missed and forgotten about

[ChequeredJersey]

Don't make assumptions about how Michalak will play, GG

[Jimpy]

Don't make assumptions about how Michalak will play, GG

I was going to say that, but you beat me to it. It is clutching at straws a bit to suggest that Welsh players who were largely anonymous against Ireland will have a field day against Michelak, who can be genius.

France are at home and hurting from their last result, I epect Wales will hardly touch the ball.

[Casartelli]

Saint-Andre's named his team:

Y Huget (Toulouse); W Fofana (Clermont Auvergne), M Mermoz (Toulon), M Bastareaud (Toulon), B Fall (Racing Metro); F Michalak (Toulon), M Machenaud (Racing Metro); Y Forestier (Castres), D Szarzewski (Racing Metro), N Mas (Perpignan), J Suta (Toulon), Y Maestri (Toulouse), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), T Dusautoir (Toulouse, capt), L Picamoles (Toulouse).

Replacements: B Kayser (Clermont Auvergne), V Debaty (Clermont Auvergne), L Ducalcon (Castres), R Taofifenua (Perpignan), D Chouly (Clermont Auvergne), M Parra (Clermont Auvergne), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), F Fritz (Toulouse).

Wales could be massively outmuscled in the 2nd and backrows. If Kohn and Ryan are fit I don't see how we have the luxury of leaving them on the bench until the game is dead and buried. If we do then Ian Evans is going to have to put in a monumental shift (without the red mist descending) and Warburton will have to put in a Lydiate-esque, and then some, tackling display just to keep the score respectable.

At least Sean O'Brien isn't playing for them, I suppose.

[whocares]

Weird team by PSA with the only unforced replacement being Fritz by Bastareaud while he was way better than Mermoz who still there. am not going to mention again that our best 12 is playing on the wing and will never see the ball as needs to rely on "fat crash ball" bastareaud to make a decent pass...

[Glas a du]

Weird team by PSA with the only unforced replacement being Fritz by Bastareaud while he was way better than Mermoz who still there. am not going to mention again that our best 12 is playing on the wing and will never see the ball as needs to rely on "fat crash ball" bastareaud to make a decent pass...

My heart bleeds for you

Your pack should win this for you at a canter, given the Idiot Howley.

[Casartelli]

Weird team by PSA with the only unforced replacement being Fritz by Bastareaud while he was way better than Mermoz who still there. am not going to mention again that our best 12 is playing on the wing and will never see the ball as needs to rely on "fat crash ball" bastareaud to make a decent pass...

To be honest whocares, you could play Audrey Tautou and Marion Cotillard in the centres and it wouldn't make any difference. O'Brien aside, the French pack is better than the Irish pack, and they strolled through us for fun.

This is going to be grim.

Unless Audrey plays.

[whocares]

Weird team by PSA with the only unforced replacement being Fritz by Bastareaud while he was way better than Mermoz who still there. am not going to mention again that our best 12 is playing on the wing and will never see the ball as needs to rely on "fat crash ball" bastareaud to make a decent pass...

My heart bleeds for you

Your pack should win this for you at a canter, given the Idiot Howley.

yes, given france is starting with 4 toulon players, chances are that Jenkins will start as well. People saw him there in training doing penalty kicks so I'd say that halfpenny doesnt have a guaranteed spot!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

There isn't much creativity in either centre pairing. I don't see any of the wings getting much ball.

[Glas a du]

Weird team by PSA with the only unforced replacement being Fritz by Bastareaud while he was way better than Mermoz who still there. am not going to mention again that our best 12 is playing on the wing and will never see the ball as needs to rely on "fat crash ball" bastareaud to make a decent pass...

My heart bleeds for you

Your pack should win this for you at a canter, given the Idiot Howley.

yes, given france is starting with 4 toulon players, chances are that Jenkins will start as well. People saw him there in training doing penalty kicks so I'd say that halfpenny doesnt have a guaranteed spot!

Not scrummaging then?

[whocares]

There isn't much creativity in either centre pairing. I don't see any of the wings getting much ball.

yes expect a lot of traffic in the midfield with all wings going there to look for employment. also the pitch is likely to be in sh*t condition after the footy game last night and its gonna be cold (zero ish)

[Guest]

This team is showing on the Wales Online live announcement. Is it right? Where's Warbs? Kohn?

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips, Gethin Jenkins, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Andrew Coombs, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (capt), Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Craig Mitchell, Lou Reed, Aaron Shingler, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams

[doctornickolas]

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips, Gethin Jenkins, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Andrew Coombs, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (capt), Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Craig Mitchell, Lou Reed, Aaron Shingler, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Sam announced out for Saturday.

May I suggest that is good for both Howley and Gatland as it removes a monkey from both's back?

[wales606]

Now that is interesting. Im guessing Warbs is injured and Kohn hasn't recovered.

At least we have a proper 6, but Gethin

[twoeightnine]

Is Rougerie injured?

Wondering the same. But equally cannot figure out much of the French selection. They seem to play a game of drop the names in a bag and call them as they come out. No Parra, Fofana on the wing when he's one of the best 12s in Europe... I guess it comes down to PSA's obsession with big, powerful players. Or maybe it just the French conforming to stereotype.

[lostinwales]

BBC website Warburton has shoulder injury

[wales606]

Was is Owens in over Rees? The line out was a shambles with Owens on, whereas Rees carried well and hit his jumpers

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Sam announced out for Saturday.

May I suggest that is good for both Howley and Gatland as it removes a monkey from both's back?

They'd never have dropped him. If he was fit, they'd have moved him to blindside. So yes, the injury's made their lives easier.

[Comfort]

well at least we know Tips should be starting this game now....

I feel bad for Warbs though, since he came back from injuryto lead the Oz series hes been in a tough situation for Wales.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Well yes, it's not his fault he's been getting selected. He can only do his best. Same as Gethin Jenkins and Jamie Roberts.

[fa0019]

Jannie Du Plessis once went home with a neck injury in 2009 during the AIs...but in fact he was dropped and was fine to play on. Management were not happy with his attitude nor his performances so sent him home.

Interesting nothing was heard before of Warburtons injury.

Although in this case I believe he probably is injured.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The thought did cross my mind, fa0019, but I'm sure they wouldn't have dropped Warburton.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

From the comments on the BBC article:

'Matthew Rees becomes the first player to be dropped in 2 years. All the other changes are injury related.'

If it's true that Howley / Gatland have only made changes when injury has forced them to do so, then that's shocking.

[GavCanDance]

From the comments on the BBC article:

'Matthew Rees becomes the first player to be dropped in 2 years. All the other changes are injury related.'

If it's true that Howley / Gatland have only made changes when injury has forced them to do so, then that's shocking.

This is true, back as far as I can remember. And yes - it is shocking.

But fairplay, Rees deserved to be dropped. He's been cack for years - no go forward, gives away lot's of lovely turnovers and has severe problems throwing a straight ball at the lineout.

But I would have gone for Owens of Hibbard. Hopefully the Scarlets will take note as Rees has been pretty cack for them too...

[fa0019]

Warburton was dropped for the Samoa match in the AIs right????

Or was it the Argentina match??? whichever was the 2nd test of the series.

[fa0019]

or was he rested?

[Cyril]

Hibbard was dropped after the 2nd Australia test last Summer.

[SubsBench]

Still can't understand Gethin being picked! Personally I would have preferred to see Ryan coming off the bench as I see him more of an impact player these days, but there is clearly a lack of options there. The pack is still a little light weight.

Still can't understand the selection of Scott Williams either. Liam Williams on the bench would make it more balanced and cover more situations.

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