Philipe Saint-André bemoans the amount of overseas players in TI4 games, but makes Five Squad changes...!!!

L’Equipe pondered on Sunday how France could go from “the sublime to the ridiculous” in the space of just three months after a November in which they defeated Australia , Argentina and Samoa in fine fashion.

Le Journal du Dimanche, meanwhile, examined the ‘Autopsy of a Disaster’, bemoaning the fact ‘‘the gladiators of the autumn have transformed into tramps with worn shoes”, before pointing the finger firmly at the the club system.“ This Top 14, overflowing with foreign stars, is robbing the championship of home-bred French talent, the worry is that nobody is knocking on the door of selection.”

Philippe Saint-André, although trying to avoid being dragged into the row at his post-match press conference, said that he hoped a deal will be negotiated between the French clubs and the Federation in June along the lines of that Rob Andrew put in place between the Premiership clubs and the RFU.

The France coach was unable to gather his match squad until the Monday of the Italy game because of a full T14 programme the previous weekend, while this week he will lose some of his players as the clubs reclaim their prize assets for another busy T14 weekend featuring big matches between Toulon and Montpellier, and Toulouse and Perpignan.

Before the tournament Saint-André also angrily identified the French clubs’ obsession with expensively procured overseas players, a situation that sees just two or three French qualified fly-halves regularly starting for their clubs, while he estimates that on some weekends as many as 20 of the 28 T14 wings are overseas players. “The calendar is due to be discussed in June by the league, the Federation and the players and I hope everybody shoulders his responsibilities,” Saint-André said.

“We can’t win the title now but we can win respect. We must work harder and lift ourselves, and we will have to perform a smash-and-grab raid at Twickenham in a fortnight. It’s a fantastic challenge and while we may not be sure of ourselves, we have to fight and show the desire to win.

“Rugby can always produce surprises and we must go there with our heads held high.”
Saint-André though has also made a number of controversial selectorial calls for which only he can take responsibility. He has banished the brilliant young centre, Wesley Fofana, to the wing, opted for the inexperienced Maxime Marchenaud at scrum-half instead of Morgan Parra and selected Frederik Michalak at fly-half despite the fact that with Jonny Wilkinson at Toulon, Parra plays all his club rugby at No 9.

None of that has worked and you wonder where Saint-André goes now. A popular figure in France, he has a deal of credit left in the bank but appears to be running out of ideas. His former France colleague Abdel Benazzi is suggesting a mass old style clear-out, but the difference between then and now is that there doesn’t appear to be a raft of players to bring in.

There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

there is only like 3 frenchmen playing regular rugby at 10 and guess what they are not playing for the top clubs as well appart from Trinh duc.
In terms of back 3 players , he's exagerating as there is plenty of quality around but he's been missing a coupel of players just before the Italy game (Clerc and Dulin).
All french coaches have been moaning about lack of preparation for the 6N for a while now so it's nothing new. Clubs moan as well because they dont see the players back for 6 weeks while they dont even receive a real indemnity (in England the clubs are paid 200k£ per international players by the RFU right?). The problems lies with the FFR gravy train : they are rich and dont give anything back to the pro clubs and prefer to spend their cash in expensive hotels, travels and other uneccessary luxuries. They have delusion of "grandeur" with their new stadium project that is going to cost 1 billion euros...

I really do like some of the French turns of phrase 'Autopsy of a Disaster’ and 'the gladiators of the autumn have transformed into tramps with worn shoes'. Brilliant! Conveys the point with a sensationalism far less crass than that of the British press.

Something needs to be looked at for sure, be it a gruelling T14 calendar (IIRC that's +2 rounds each way more than AP) & HC on top of that. There's no way that's not going to affect players, although i seems PSA's biggest gripe all goes back to a point raised by a lot of 606er's that Club > Country.

Outside of France, a lot of nations feel annoyed that the T14 is 'poaching' their players. Now that PSA has come out and said 'we need more seasoned players in X/Y/Z' position maybe this will sink in?

I didn't know that the FFR didn't reimburse for international players though Whocares . Maybe they could take a page from AP/P12 models? or do you think this would ruin their gravy train?

AlastairW wrote:I really do like some of the French turns of phrase 'Autopsy of a Disaster’ and 'the gladiators of the autumn have transformed into tramps with worn shoes'. Brilliant! Conveys the point with a sensationalism far less crass than that of the British press.

Something needs to be looked at for sure, be it a gruelling T14 calendar (IIRC that's +2 rounds each way more than AP) & HC on top of that. There's no way that's not going to affect players, although i seems PSA's biggest gripe all goes back to a point raised by a lot of 606er's that Club > Country.

Outside of France, a lot of nations feel annoyed that the T14 is 'poaching' their players. Now that PSA has come out and said 'we need more seasoned players in X/Y/Z' position maybe this will sink in?

I didn't know that the FFR didn't reimburse for international players though Whocares . Maybe they could take a page from AP/P12 models? or do you think this would ruin their gravy train?

yes they definitely should but they wont - am actually not correct they do give 500 € per day to clubs for poaching the players and dont even give tickets to those clubs to watch france game !!!
FFR is full of old farts that live in the 19th century ... time to cut some heads !

Saint Andre has a point and a good one,IF you are selecting a test side it is usually built around your best two franchises.Boks say Bulls/Stormers,NZ say Crusaders/Hurricanes,england say Leicester and whoever.
But if you do this with France just say Toulouse/Toulon the starting teams probably only 6 or 7 are qualified for France.
IT is the same for ALL the NH sides but it is up to the IRB or whoever to set up a sensible season.
Giving test Rugby priority of course you could always do the other thing pick
overseas players for your team.
Trouble with THAT Top14 usaully only cherrypick ESTABLISHED test players for the Barbarians style sides.

Saint Andre is only doing it to take everyone's minds off his shambolic attempt at running the French National Team.

Not sure if I would change the 23 much, apart from starting with Parra, Trinh-duc, Clerc (if available), Fofana, Rougerie. Is Bonnaire still available? Dusatoir has been annonymous for me.

Perhaps he'd be right if he was picking the best players and they weren't performing.

But he's picking a man who hasn't played 10 in years. Isn't this season and wasn't last season.
Unless you're Carlos Spencer or Stephen Larkham most flyhalves perfect their game through repetition.

FRA have 14 sides in their top division, if each squad has 30 players then thats 420 pro players compared to 150 for NZ, SA & NZ. So they have 100 foreigners lets say, thats still double what most countries (bar ENG) have.

FA you hit the nail on the head

He picks Michalak over say Trihn Duc??
Why not play Parra at 9?
Fofana on the wing?

yeah Parra on the bench is loco.

I think half of FRA problems however is that they are stuck in the past though.

The game has moved on and these days ENG, IRE, WAL are very strong at the breakdown and commit numbers and really fight for possession.

Thats where we came unstuck last week (Scotland against England) and thats where I see FRA losing control. Their front row can scrum but offer little in the tight.

Mas will fancy his chances against any loosehead in world rugby come scrum time... but hes nothing in the loose and guys like Jenkins & Healy will win overall.

A few things:

Start Parra and Trinc-Duh.
Play Nalaynga(sp?) at 6 (he was amazing in the AI's).
Hope that Pape is fit for Twickenham.
Ship Fofona to 12 then find him a good 13, maybe Bastauraud maybe not.
What has happened to Medard? If he's fit get him to 15.
Never let Michilak play 10 again.

fa0019 wrote:Perhaps he'd be right if he was picking the best players and they weren't performing.

But he's picking a man who hasn't played 10 in years. Isn't this season and wasn't last season.
Unless you're Carlos Spencer or Stephen Larkham most flyhalves perfect their game through repetition.

FRA have 14 sides in their top division, if each squad has 30 players then thats 420 pro players compared to 150 for NZ, SA & NZ. So they have 100 foreigners lets say, thats still double what most countries (bar ENG) have.

Michelak has played beautifully at ten for Toulon this year. He has done well enough to warrant a selection for France, despite also being picked at scrum half for many games. Trinh-Duc is the more consistent performer at Montpellier.

St Andre has a point, the top 14 is flooded with foreigners especially the top teams who are fighting out the final spots in the HEC.

Many British players have also commented that their clubs in France are heavily forward dominated and defensively minded. Contributing to much "negative" play.

No doubt France have the players available to turn two loses in to two loses and three wins, but whether they will or not does now rest heavily on both the players personal performances and their coaches ability to analyse what was good in the autumn that isn't happening now.

Selections would be a key start. Parra is an obvious omission these last few weeks. Dausitoir is recently recovered but no where near his talismanic best.

With an abrasive front five, fast back row a clever halfback partnership and creative midfield could well turn Frances fortunes.

Two weeks of contemplation will help massively, the squad disappearing back to their clubs will not.

After watching Michalak sauntering back to the try-line to 'help' in defence against Italy he should never had played against Wales anyway.

The coach is trying to deflect blame from himself and the players. Yes, the system isn't perfect, but it didn't force SA to pick the wrong players in the wrong positions or make the players, lazy, gutless and inept.

PSA already asked for his players not to go back to their clubs this weekend - let's see if the clubs listen to him.
As for the players, well the same team did well in the AIs ( minus a couple of injuries) so he had to start them. now its not working but I dont think it would have been way better with TD starting. In fact while in the AIs they managed to get quickball and find gaps in the defenses quite easily, this time they were dominated in the rucks and couldnt get any decent ball. granted Michalak decision making has been very poor but for me TD is just a good 12 with a vision to play 10, not international standart.
it's also quite a bad time for french teams right now as seen last weekend in the top 14 where all the top clubs lost mainly to bottom teams (Toulon losing 41-0 to Bordeaux-Begles was quite a farce really) so in terms of conditionning most players peak at the beginning and the end of the season.

I liked Fabian Pelous statement yesterday where he suggested that, "France have to be very low before they can do something very special; it's just our mentality. We are very low now so we will probably win in Twickenham. That is how we do things in France"

Yawn ... excuses.

The Welsh tighthead has barely played all year, dfidnt mean he couldnt be on the winning side.

The Jeff is full of foreigns and retired players, doesnt stop england being top of the table.

PSA needs to stop worring about the experience his 5th choice players have and start worrying about how good his first choice ones are.
Every week theres 140 french players getting first team starts. If you cant find 23 from that then Scotland and Italy might as well have given up years ago.
And if its really that bad he needs to start tapping up the exile communities in SANZAR like everyone else does, there must be a player who "knows all about France" there.

Maybe just maybe the problems are the same theyve always been:
1) Michalak is a fair weather fairy. Flashy and floppy
2) The french players arent that bothered unless they are winning (also see HC)
3) The french players are even less bothered when the coach doesnt have them on board
4) They lack leadership
5) Meh

yappysnap wrote:A few things:

Start Parra and Trinc-Duh.
Play Nalaynga(sp?) at 6 (he was amazing in the AI's).
Hope that Pape is fit for Twickenham.
Ship Fofona to 12 then find him a good 13, maybe Bastauraud maybe not.
What has happened to Medard? If he's fit get him to 15.
Never let Michilak play 10 again.

This is what Saint Andre should do but will he? I hope not. It would be typical if he picks the correct team vs England.

maestegmafia wrote:

Michelak has played beautifully at ten for Toulon this year. He has done well enough to warrant a selection for France, despite also being picked at scrum half for many games. Trinh-Duc is the more consistent performer at Montpellier.

Michalaks played at 9 whenever I've seen him mm? I was surprised he was starting at 10 to be honest, especially after last week.

Fofanas been the stand out 12 in Europe, why shift him onto the wing?
If he was going to do that, why not then bring in Fickou (sp?) who is another exciting prospect at 12.
Oh and actually play a 10, at 10, hello Trinh-Duc.
He's had some injuries in the back 3 that perhaps magnifies what he's trying to say (Butin/Clerc) but so has every other side in he competition in one area or another. Wales had their first 4 locks out injured...

Sorry, but whilst I agree the Top14 is probably a bit too foreign heavy, there's more than enough quality french players getting regular gametime to facilitate a winning France side. They've never been short of talent or quality, its just harnessing that and they seem to have fallen down at coaching level.

Whats that saying we hear all the time, you dont become a bad side over night.

And does anyone know of the availability of Bonnaire? Injured? Retired from int. rugby?

Morgannwg wrote:And does anyone know of the availability of Bonnaire? Injured? Retired from int. rugby?

retired from international rugby last year

I am pretty sure Fickou is injured. Michelak was at ten when Toulon racked up their mighty score in the HEC.

There are good French players playing but the majority do no play for the top four teams. Especially flyhalf alternatives to Michelak and Trinh-Duc.

TD and Michelak are both good players.

I think scrum half is more an issue than Flyhalf.

Centre too. As you say Fofana is about as good as it gets he should be at 12 like last year.

Thank you. Has Medard returned to rugby yet? Nyanga? Those guys should surely be worth a look at.

I think the French have been ridiculously greedy, and are finally beginning to pay the price for it. Importing talent is only going to cause trouble which escalates throughout the international structure.

They undoubtedly provide the most competition in the Heineken Cup, but they are forfeiting the home grown talent for it, and their international game is suffering because of it.

I despise way clubs like Toulon are buying the best talent from other countries, and wasting players on the bench. It's atrocious, and is one step closer to the 'football culture' that has plagued that game. I just hope that provisions are put in place to stop this sort of behaviour before it develops further.

Titles are earned, not bought.

They need to take a leaf out of Englands book and recruit them before they've been capped

"I really do like some of the French turns of phrase 'Autopsy of a Disaster’ and 'the gladiators of the autumn have transformed into tramps with worn shoes'. Brilliant! Conveys the point with a sensationalism far less crass than that of the British press."

thats about crass and sensationalist as you can get tbh.. funny though!

Morgannwg wrote:Thank you. Has Medard returned to rugby yet? Nyanga? Those guys should surely be worth a look at.

Medart is just coming back from Injury so didnt make the 23 - I think he will make it this time. Not to have a specialist full back is madness (not too mention playing TD there!). Buttin form seem doubtful.
Nyanga was in the 30 but not in the 23 as well - Ouedraogo took his place and they only have one 8 (chouly) on the bench. he might come back as well.
Fickou is injured - Rougerie or Harinordoquy are clearly deemed too old by PSA (yachvili probably as well).
they need someone at 9 with a good kicking game specially if michalak or TD is playing though. Machenaud doesnt have that.

the next alternative at 10 is either camille lopez (plays for begles-bordeaux...) or Plisson (former under 21 player who plays for stade français). not too exciting yet...

RubyGuby wrote:They need to take a leaf out of Englands book and recruit them before they've been capped

Ha, maybe. I can imagine Jenkins playing in the French front row! By the looks of him, he certainly enjoys to be enjoying at least part of the french lifestyle!

Thats the problem France have with foriegns, they are recruiting big name already capped players rather than picking off the under 20s/youth squads

France have a problem at 10 - especially when you consider that the 3 top teams in the T14 tend to play a foreigner there.

Other than that PSa could help himself by picking the best players. Leaving the best SH in the NH on the bench is criminal while the makeup of his back 3 absurd (Winger at FB, the countries best centre and a winger on the wing)

Pick Parra and Trinh-Duc and France will start to click. Michalak has been bouf for 2 weeks running now.

maestegmafia

Perhaps he's filled in occasionally but Jonny is the starting 10 at Toulon and kicks the goals.

Last year he was also at scrumhalf whilst Lambie played pivot.. he also kicked the goals.

Not that his place kicking is his problem but an occasional game here & there at 10 over the last couple of seasons isn't ideal for a player most see as a nailed on scrumhalf.

Michalak has been Toulon's first choice scrum half and only played at 10 a couple of times when they gave jonny a rest. On the Toulon website he is listed as a scrum half (mind they list Gethin as a tighthead)

PSA announced the 23 players for England and none of them will play next weekend....

backs: Vincent Clerc, Florian Fritz, Yoann Huget (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana, Morgan Parra (Clermont), Benjamin Fall, Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Mathieu Bastareaud, Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), François Trinh-Duc (Montpellier)

forwards : Thierry Dusautoir, Yoann Maestri, Yannick Nyanga, Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), Vincent Debaty, Thomas Domingo, Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Antonie Claassen, Christophe Samson (Castres), Luc Ducalcon, Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Jocelino Suta (Toulon)

out : Chouly, Forestier, Mermoz, Ouedraogo and Taofifenua
In : Clerc (wing), Domingo(LH), Nyanga(flanker), Samson (lock) and our own south african Antonie Claassen at number 8 (his father was a springbock in the 80s).

good news is that Fofana should play at 12. Bad news is that we still dont have a real fullback (huget can help but he doesnt have the kicking quality required for international level). Claassen is a real surprise though!

Are you french Whocares or do you just live there?

mystiroakey wrote:Are you french Whocares or do you just live there?

both

cool.. A real frenchman!!

Your team has been a bit shocking yo~!

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

Probably not too many more. If you think about it the Welsh (for example) have not only four welsh lads starting at fly half a week at regional level (and four more on the bench), but also a few getting starts in the Jeff (Jones/Robinson) and T14 (Hook), where as the french tend not to have anyone playing outside of their league, and are then impacted by the non-french players. Funny enough when there was talk of the welsh (and other nations) exodus to France for money, I remember saying that it could not continue, as the nation that would be most effected would be the french.

The Jeff is full of foreigns and retired players, doesnt stop england being top of the table.

Pete, i think this is rapidly changing though. There was a big culture of bringing in overpaid journeymen that added nothing...whereas now there is a growing emphasis on the academies and giving the kids gametime over old foreigners.

I can only see France having a huge problem soon if they keep going the way their clubs are going. They need to bring in a foreigner limit...minimum Frenchmen per club rule...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

Probably not too many more. If you think about it the Welsh (for example) have not only four welsh lads starting at fly half a week at regional level (and four more on the bench), but also a few getting starts in the Jeff (Jones/Robinson) and T14 (Hook), where as the french tend not to have anyone playing outside of their league, and are then impacted by the non-french players. Funny enough when there was talk of the welsh (and other nations) exodus to France for money, I remember saying that it could not continue, as the nation that would be most effected would be the french.

If you think about it... the Welsh have the four fly-halves, the few in the AP... and the French have 14 top sides from which to pick their players. 14. That's 14 minus the Welsh 4 and the AP few. That's about 8 more sides to pick players from than the Welsh. That's a handy number Scarlet - don't knock it till you try it

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

Probably not too many more. If you think about it the Welsh (for example) have not only four welsh lads starting at fly half a week at regional level (and four more on the bench), but also a few getting starts in the Jeff (Jones/Robinson) and T14 (Hook), where as the french tend not to have anyone playing outside of their league, and are then impacted by the non-french players. Funny enough when there was talk of the welsh (and other nations) exodus to France for money, I remember saying that it could not continue, as the nation that would be most effected would be the french.

If you think about it... the Welsh have the four fly-halves, the few in the AP... and the French have 14 top sides from which to pick their players. 14. That's 14 minus the Welsh 4 and the AP few. That's about 8 more sides to pick players from than the Welsh. That's a handy number Scarlet - don't knock it till you try it

Fly not sure what your on about mate. If the French have 3 players starting at fly half in France, and 0 in the Jeff, and 0 in the Rabo, then that is 3 fly halves starting week in week out. Sod the number of clubs, it is the number of people getting game time that was in question!

On a serious note. If the French coach can watch his men yawning and walking through two games in two weeks and put it down to the number of foreign imports in the Top 14, then perhaps he should take himself off for a long walk and yawn too, and not come back.

It's bull....... I don't know whether it was BBC or RTE that pulled up shots of the French game against Italy. The antics of players who got game time the following week was disgraceful. Sauntering back into position at walking pace as their tryline was being threatened. If French players don't play, you can be damn certain it isn't because they can't play.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

monwy wrote:There is more than enough quality in the current French squad, the problem lies in how they are being brought together and directed.

Completely agree. There are many more French players getting game time than there are Irish, Scottish, Italian, Welsh etc.

Saint André is making his predecessor look good at the moment!

Probably not too many more. If you think about it the Welsh (for example) have not only four welsh lads starting at fly half a week at regional level (and four more on the bench), but also a few getting starts in the Jeff (Jones/Robinson) and T14 (Hook), where as the french tend not to have anyone playing outside of their league, and are then impacted by the non-french players. Funny enough when there was talk of the welsh (and other nations) exodus to France for money, I remember saying that it could not continue, as the nation that would be most effected would be the french.

If you think about it... the Welsh have the four fly-halves, the few in the AP... and the French have 14 top sides from which to pick their players. 14. That's 14 minus the Welsh 4 and the AP few. That's about 8 more sides to pick players from than the Welsh. That's a handy number Scarlet - don't knock it till you try it

Fly not sure what your on about mate. If the French have 3 players starting at fly half in France, and 0 in the Jeff, and 0 in the Rabo, then that is 3 fly halves starting week in week out. Sod the number of clubs, it is the number of people getting game time that was in question!

You picked one position. Sod the position and let's talk real time. France have far more players to choose from than Wales. Period. The real answer to your initial point wa actually my second point. let's not have any "Not enough French players getting gametime" excuses from the French. it won't work.

whocares wrote:PSA announced the 23 players for England and none of them will play next weekend....

backs: Vincent Clerc, Florian Fritz, Yoann Huget (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana, Morgan Parra (Clermont), Benjamin Fall, Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Mathieu Bastareaud, Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), François Trinh-Duc (Montpellier)

forwards : Thierry Dusautoir, Yoann Maestri, Yannick Nyanga, Louis Picamoles (Toulouse), Vincent Debaty, Thomas Domingo, Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Antonie Claassen, Christophe Samson (Castres), Luc Ducalcon, Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Jocelino Suta (Toulon)

out : Chouly, Forestier, Mermoz, Ouedraogo and Taofifenua
In : Clerc (wing), Domingo(LH), Nyanga(flanker), Samson (lock) and our own south african Antonie Claassen at number 8 (his father was a springbock in the 80s).

good news is that Fofana should play at 12. Bad news is that we still dont have a real fullback (huget can help but he doesnt have the kicking quality required for international level). Claassen is a real surprise though!

Still missing a few vital frenchmen there. Picking from that I'd go with;
Huget, Fall, Fritz, Fofana, Clerc, Trinh-Duc, Parra - Picamoles, Dusatoir(c), Nyanga, Maestri, Suta, Mas, Szarzewski, Domingo.

Are guys like Pape, Medard going to come back in? If Pape was then I'd be tempted to drop Dusatoir.

Fly - honestly don't agree with you mate, PSA mentioned that they area a bit stumped in the fly half position with lack of realistic options, to be honest if you swapped Biggar and Freddie around then I think France probably would have won. So I can see his point.

Well that's the beauty of opinions Scarlet..we can have them and have disagreements about them, which is really just another few words for 'good chat'.

Anyway, here's another thought on the subject. If Gatland got his hands on the French team for the same period as Philippe has had them then I think you'd have seen a much more different French side come to play ball in the first two weeks of this 6N.

No, I'm not saying they'd win both games by a landslide, but I'm saying I think he'd tolerate less rubbish from them coming into camp, he'd insist on every player chosen performing to International standards required of them, he'd be ruthless in his picks, and they'd have brought much more fire with them as a result.

In a sense, what's wrong with French rugby over and over again, is that the same mercurial players (famed for it) are virtually always coached by the same mercurial coaches. Keep French coaches away from French International sides and maybe they'd get those World Cups everyone says they're oh so capable of.

Ok, another half joke - but only half a one.

Should never single out poor performances from a whole team full of poor ones but Dussatoir and Picamoles were standout failures up front and Michalak in the backs. France have no-one leading right now and I hope they don't sort it before Twickenham. Really don't care why it's happening but PSA is turning out to be another abject failure with mental problems, he's on another planet.

Fly, the French wouldn't work for a foreigner and they will only work for one of their own if it suits them. They looked lazy and disinterested but I wouldn't bet on them not to turn it around for the England game. I do think we would cope though even if they did.

Fly - so No calling for Guy Noves to take over ASAP then?

Guy Noves doesn't Take over...there is probably a very real point made in the emphasis I make

Guy Noves probably agrees with me. He doesn't want to lose any reputation by becoming yet another gesticulating, hyperventilating man on the side lines as the French International side goes AWOL yet again.