How Good is Saul Alvarez?

Just a quick one folks.

Having looked at Saul's record, is anyone in agreement that it is actually pathetic for a World Champion?

He wont the WBC Light Middle title against non other than Welterweight Sensation Matthew Hatton.

He then goes on to defend it against P4P great Ryan Rhodes along with the likes of Cotto's leftover Alfonso Gomez, a completely shot Mosley, a blown up Light Welter in Lopez and some washed up wannabe in Cintron.

Does anybody understand how:

a) He fought Matthew Hatton in a WBC Title Fight at Hattons wrong weight
b) How is he allowed to continue beating up bums and wash ups

Im presuming its because of his Mexican Heritage that allows him this limelight (with Suliman being his nuthugger).

His class is there to see, but is that only because he is beating up on washed up fighters (some in a different weight class by ALOT)?


Thoughts?

Every time he fights I think he has some great talent but then I look at who he is fighting. I will reserve my judgement until he has had a defining fight. Trout may well be that fight, he put in a great performance against cotto. I'm still sore over it, I placed my bet the wrong way and lost £50!

Mentioned it on the other thread, but Trout is 2/1 on PaddyPower with Alvarez at 1/3. Odds I find far too wide. Will be waiting until the method of victory is announced as Trout could be as long as 10/1 to win by UD.

Not convinced by him yet, but the Trout fight will tell us a fair bit about him. He seems to have a fairly solid set of boxing skills, just not sure he has the power or the De la Hoya wow factor about how he goes about his business. Can't quite put my finger on it, but the fact he's been so hidden away might suggest they're not sold on him either.

Time will tell.

Over to you, Az.....

Oh, what the hell, I'll throw my two pence in before he gets here. How good is Alvarez? Well, to tell you the truth, I'm not really sure yet myself, and the fight against Trout is absolutely massive for him.

My general feeling right now is that he won't quite become the pound for pound operator or new face of the sport the way Golden Boy are hoping he will, however. Just a little bit too ponderous and easy to hit and, while I plan on revisiting a couple of their fights before I make a full on prediction, I reckon Trout will be a bit too canny and cute for him.

However, he can punch, can hold a shot pretty well and has a great frame and handy fitness at Light-Middle, so while he'll fall short of the huge hype surrounding him in my opinion, I still expect him to be a fixture in the 154 / 160 lb standings for a good few years and his 'Irish' looks, powerful backers and aggressive style mean that there will always be money to be made by fighting him.

Others have said it, but I tend to think that his list of opponents so far haven't really been reflective of his ambition. He wanted Ortiz, remember, and would have got it had Victor not surprisingly lost to Lopez. When his team were recently talking about matching him with Cotto, he came out and publicly said he wanted the man who vanquished the Puerto Rican and, thankfully, he's now got what he wanted.

Anyway, that matters little now. He's in there with Trout, it's a legimitate, big fight and, for whoever wins, there could be THE golden result for anyone between 140 and 154 lb right now at the end of it - Mayweather, baby!

im convinced with what i've seen so far, great power good chin and good engine- all the ticks are in the right boxes. the trout fight is a defining fight for him, he is a genuine LMW, coming off a great win and has excellent skills himself.

alvarez is young and hungry, and golden boy must have enough faith in him if they are making the trout fight. they did afterall want the cotto or ortiz fight but neither materialised. yes some of his fights shouldnt have been for a title, but you could say that about many boxers these days. his record for a man of his age is actually pretty impressive, and he handled mosley more comfortably than pacman or mayweather, and it wasnt as long after as made out to be. i think he needs to improve his stamina and concentration if he is to challenge flloyd, but hes got a big career ahead of him. his record is a lot better than brooks, yet we are supposed to accept kell is special.

mobilemaster8 wrote:

welterweight sensation Matthew Hatton....and.....P4P great Ryan Rhodes

Mobile demonstrates the subtle use of sarcasm.

Average and chinny. Trout is not a huge puncher to expext trout to jab him silly, win 10 rounds coasting then get jobbed.

Sometimes Chris you have to be careful what you wish for.

azania wrote:Average and chinny. Trout is not a huge puncher to expext trout to jab him silly, win 10 rounds coasting then get jobbed.

Much like every other fighter whose ever been ko'd, knocked down, rocked or stunned for a split second! Only fighter whose not chinny in the history of the sport is probably Oliver Mccall but don't quote me on it there's probably evidence to suggest otherwise!

Canelo will lose to Trout. Trout is faster, strong and smarter.

There's a difference between getting decked by someone your own weight and a fat lw.

Its not always just about size though az as you should know as you obviously watch a lot of boxing & claim to have done a bit yourself. Just gets boring seeing you churn out the same one liner over & over again about fighters that are obviously not your favorites.

Ok. He has a strong chin. Excellent jab. Elite handspeed and beat a peak ssm. I have no favourite boxers or hate any boxer. I see it and call it as I see it.

azania wrote:Ok. He has a strong chin. Excellent jab. Elite handspeed and beat a peak ssm. I have no favourite boxers or hate any boxer. I see it and call it as I see it.

Now your being pathetic! In 40 or so fights he's yet to lose or be ko'd, you can't really prove he has a weak chin nor can the rest of us prove its made of granite but so far so good. Don't worry your nemesis ghosty will be coming out of the woodwork anytime now so you will have somebody to argue the toss with, enjoy.

For 40 fight he's fought cans. Cotto had him out on his feet. I see nothing in him that a good jab won't nullify.

He's passed all his tests well up until this point. Now he's entering the period of his career where we'll really find out if he's top class. He looks to have all the tools, but he's coming to the point where he has to prove it or be found out as just another contender. Trout is a great test. I'm surprised he's taking the fight to be honest. I'd put Trout as the slight favourite.

That's fair enough az, as i said I get a little bored of the same ole same ole chinny that you come out with about fighters. As we all know he had next to no amateur career & has used these cans as his apprenticeship and with the hatton fight for a world title has unfortunately shown us everything that is wrong with boxing in the modern day. As I said before its not just about size & brute strength that determines the effectiveness of a punch.

sohotnot wrote:That's fair enough az, as i said I get a little bored of the same ole same ole chinny that you come out with about fighters. As we all know he had next to no amateur career & has used these cans as his apprenticeship and with the hatton fight for a world title has unfortunately shown us everything that is wrong with boxing in the modern day. As I said before its not just about size & brute strength that determines the effectiveness of a punch.

Well put. I think he turned pro when he was 15 in Mexico so he has had basically no amatuer career. He is 22ish and is unbeaten in about 40 fights.

Must have missed the part of the Cotto fight where Alvarez was out on his feet, my memory may be failing me for once but I recall him being slightly stunned that's it. The bigger hitting Lopez landed flush and did nothing.

Round 1. Check it out. Haven't seen the lopez fight.

He stumbles ever so slightly into the ropes but at no point did he look out on his feet, he continues to move, cover up and punch back within about a second of that punch landing.

His legs went awol. Watch it again. A decent boxer would have ended it.

You seem to see what you want to see, if my aunt had a **** she'd be my uncle.

azania wrote:His legs went awol. Watch it again. A decent boxer would have ended it.

Is that really your justification in calling him chinny hahaha

Vic. Get lost please.

azania wrote:Vic. Get lost please.

you're calling a guy chinny and your only evidence is that his legs went to jelly or a few seconds in a fight.

Vic. There's a book called "Men are from mars women from venus" . You come from Uranus. It is my opinion that he is chinny based on what I've seen.

Azania, is there a boxer you don't think Chinny? Vitali has one of the best in boxing, but getting knocked out sometime when we still had apes running round the planet probably means you think he's got a bit of a glass jaw?

A LMW getting badly shaken by a fat LW does warrant a few questions.

Canelo is the real deal. Very strong, very talented and very determined. I know he needs to step up and he will.

He IS the most exciting prospect in boxing at the mo. He is being very well looked after. He has impressed me.

He was a Welterweight at the time but you're fully aware of that, i'll leave you to it.

azania wrote:Vic. There's a book called "Men are from mars women from venus" . You come from Uranus. It is my opinion that he is chinny based on what I've seen.

On what evidence? legs a little jelly for a few seconds in 1 fight? hardly great evidence.

What evidence you're from Uranus? Read the carp you write.

azania wrote:What evidence you're from Uranus? Read the carp you write.

You're really good at this debating.

Debating with you vic is like chewing leather. Pointless.

azania wrote:Debating with you vic is like chewing leather. Pointless.

Jesus. That's perhaps the most ironic thing I've ever seen written down. I looked up irony in the dictionary just to be sure and it directed me back to this post from Az.

superflyweight wrote:

azania wrote:Debating with you vic is like chewing leather. Pointless.

Jesus. That's perhaps the most ironic thing I've ever seen written down. I looked up irony in the dictionary just to be sure and it directed me back to this post from Az.

No comment.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Canelo is the real deal. Very strong, very talented and very determined. I know he needs to step up and he will.

He IS the most exciting prospect in boxing at the mo. He is being very well looked after. He has impressed me.

Can't disagree with that. Very exciting fighter. But an accident waiting to happen. Apparently he balloons up in weigh between fights and loves a party? Which 22 year old doesn't.? Lets hope he fulfills his potential after trout beats him.

alvarez gets a bit of a ribbing for his recent opponents but when you look at it objectively its no worse than some others, and much better than some (cleverly springs to mind).

he stepped up from WW claiming a silver WBC belt and beat n'dou, baldomir and cotto (JM cotto that is). he then fought for a vacant WBC strap against hatton, not his fault that the WBC chose a poor opponent. his first defense was against rhodes, who deserved a shot, and is no sloutch. after that was gomez, who comes from the same hometown as saul, so was a natural defense. another credible defense against cintron was next, then mosley, who lasted the full 12 with manny in his last outing (even if he is getting on in years). around this time a fight with kirkland had fell through.

then he was scheduled to fight ortiz, would was beat by lopez in the mean time, so lopez got a shot instead. lara was once considered a good opponent, but he has proved not to be as good as first thought. a fight with paul williams was made, and then tragedy struck and williams was paralyzed.

he then looked set to face cotto, but again he was beaten by trout who is now set to face alvarez. with a big fight been lined up with mayweather at the end of the year i don't really see why el cinnamon gets such a bad deal.

azania wrote:Debating with you vic is like chewing leather. Pointless.

This is the single most hypocritical statement I've ever read on here.

Boxtthis wrote:

azania wrote:Debating with you vic is like chewing leather. Pointless.

This is the single most hypocritical statement I've ever read on here.

Oi!!!

It's hard to guage how good he is and his opponents hasn't been his doing but his promoters

He has had a couple soft touches, but you can see that the man oozes confidence and wants to prove himself. He calls out and agreees to fight Kirkland, the biggest punhcer in the division and off the back of a great win vs angulo, but Kirkland prices himself out. He fights williams, and 6'1 volume puncher who gave the best middleweight in the world a tough time in their first fight and had since came back with a domianting performance over Isdhida after a poor showing agianst Lara (who went missing untill matirouysan), then we all know what happened. Then he wanted to fight ortiz, a huge welterweight with power and last floyd opponent, but he got beat by Lopez. He then fought lopez as it was the decent thing as lopez earnt it and he himself showed that he wasnt happy and went on to destroy Lopez. He called out Cotto, the #1 LMW behind floyd which would have been huge but he gets beat also.

As someone mentioned, they went him to fight Cotto but he himself said he wanted Trout as trout deserved it

As a fighter i like him but see alot of room for improvement but his maturity at his age is brilliant. You can count on one hand the amount of rounds he has lost throughout his 40 fight career. He has a very measured style, a counterpuncher with a good jab and throws great combinations. He has power, not huge but noticeble and fast compact punches when he does let them go. Solid chin, don't think he has been hurt or down ever except for 10 seconds against Cotto, and alright stamina as he gets stronger as he gets into the middlerounds.

Trout is a huge fight and is a real 50/50. He can either win and stop the doubters or lose and continue to progress as he is only 22

Good points here.

Considering chucking a bit of money on a Trout UD myself, just a bit wary of being jobbed considering what Alvarez is.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:It's hard to guage how good he is and his opponents hasn't been his doing but his promoters

He has had a couple soft touches, but you can see that the man oozes confidence and wants to prove himself. He calls out and agreees to fight Kirkland, the biggest punhcer in the division and off the back of a great win vs angulo, but Kirkland prices himself out. He fights williams, and 6'1 volume puncher who gave the best middleweight in the world a tough time in their first fight and had since came back with a domianting performance over Isdhida after a poor showing agianst Lara (who went missing untill matirouysan), then we all know what happened. Then he wanted to fight ortiz, a huge welterweight with power and last floyd opponent, but he got beat by Lopez. He then fought lopez as it was the decent thing as lopez earnt it and he himself showed that he wasnt happy and went on to destroy Lopez. He called out Cotto, the #1 LMW behind floyd which would have been huge but he gets beat also.

As someone mentioned, they went him to fight Cotto but he himself said he wanted Trout as trout deserved it

As a fighter i like him but see alot of room for improvement but his maturity at his age is brilliant. You can count on one hand the amount of rounds he has lost throughout his 40 fight career. He has a very measured style, a counterpuncher with a good jab and throws great combinations. He has power, not huge but noticeble and fast compact punches when he does let them go. Solid chin, don't think he has been hurt or down ever except for 10 seconds against Cotto, and alright stamina as he gets stronger as he gets into the middlerounds.

Trout is a huge fight and is a real 50/50. He can either win and stop the doubters or lose and continue to progress as he is only 22

That certainly is not Alvarez.