Another 6n title surely proof that regional game + player drain to france working to our advantage?

For me our latest title win is just another example of why regionalism is working to provide us with top level athletes to compete.

I also think that the lack of money available in wales at present is working too our advantage as we are having to expose younger players to top level rugby. This added to the number of expats we have playing in top level rugby abroad just adds to our player pool to hoose from.

Depends whether the aim of the Regions is to advance the national team or to advance themselves in their respective competitions. Currently the national team is benefiting but the Regions have suffered a limp European campaign.

totally agree Sam, and I am in the former in terms of my attitude,

Irish provinces have more financial muscle, make great signings in keypositions to give them heineken success but then struggle for depth on international stage

GavinDragon wrote:totally agree Sam, and I am in the former in terms of my attitude,

Irish provinces have more financial muscle, make great signings in keypositions to give them heineken success but then struggle for depth on international stage

Ireland International............ well two things.

Firstly - They're struggling through what in anyone's language is a plague of injuries. Which is certainly not an excuse for terrible play but a true portrayal of a situation few sides could deal with or would want to deal with (France had a dreadful campaign without the excuse of injuries, as it were - so Ireland have more reasons for their lowly standing this year than France certainly have)

Secondly - They (Ireland) have a coaching team that have now proven beyond any reasonable doubt that they are not functioning as a unit at International Level and fall way below the standards required. The constant inconsistency over the years, using differing selections of players, has now fully decended into consistent underperformance and is proof of their mismanagement - especially when their players continue to prove worth in other theatres)

Ireland were pretty ok, without ever being spectacular, during the Noughties...and now they've suffered four years of ever decreasing circles in results and performances. But I couldn't and still wouldn't blame Provincial success or lack of depth in the player profile (not perfect in all positions by a long stretch but doable and workable with wise coaching.) So, I'd blame bad coaching of the International side. Something that finally might be about to be resolved.

The problem with Wales is that if the regions begin to suffer further or even fold then where do the young players go?

There needs to be a balance struck and Wales are bringing through young players at Rabo and HC level partly because they have to with players going elsewhere and their being given a chance at test level too wether it be from the bench or starting. Ireland havnt been doing that so using them as a comparison is a bad idea.

Fly yes the injuries have been a factor but when you have very good SH players playing in key players for the provinces how are you ever going to build up the depth required to deal for such injury crises?

Marty - yes that is the worry, however I believe at the point of regions folding the WRU would move to centralise contracts

The WRU shows a distinct lack of care for the Regions at the best of times. Wouldn't central contracts just see the best players rested from club games more often so they were fresher for internationals, they'd probably be a fifth AI thrown in as well.

GavinDragon wrote:For me our latest title win is just another example of why regionalism is working to provide us with top level athletes to compete.

I also think that the lack of money available in wales at present is working too our advantage as we are having to expose younger players to top level rugby. This added to the number of expats we have playing in top level rugby abroad just adds to our player pool to hoose from.

I think it's a fair argument. You look at the young lads that have come through at the Ospreys this season, we lot a load of players last season yet kids have come in and most have settled quite well and shown a lot of talent.

The issue for me though is players like Dwayne Peel, Gareth Delve, Andy Powell, etc are now off the radar because they choose to play abroad. In fact to my knowledge the only Aviva Premiership club who doesn't have a Welsh player in the squad is Leicester.

A lot of these players in England, and France are probably not even considered by Wales, despite being tecnically in our talent pool.

Bath: Paul James, Dominic Day
Exeter: Craig Mitchell, Phil Dollman
Gloucester: Will James, Martyn Thomas
Harelquins: Olly kohn
London Irish: Darren Allinson, Cai Griffiths
London Wasps: Rhys Thomas, Will Taylor, Stephen Jones, Nicky Robinson, Lee Thomas
London Welsh, Dan George, Adam Brown, Jonathan Mill,s Lee Beech, Gavin Henson, James Lewis, Sonny Parker
Northampton: Rhys Oakley, Martin Roberts
Sale: Marc Jones, Eifion Lewis-Roberts, Andy Powell, Dwayne Peel, Nick Macleod
Saracens: Rhys Gill
Worcester Warriors: Ed Shervington, Ceri Jones,

Melbourne Rebels: Gareth Delve

Toulon: Gethin Jenkins
Clermont: Lee Bryne
Perpignan: Luke Charteris, James Hook
Biarritz: Ben Broster, Aled Brew
Bayonne: Mike Phillips,
Agen: Jamie Robinson

I just wonder how many of these guys might be pushing for Welsh honors if they were playing for a Welsh region. You could probably have the makings of a bloody good team there. Its a two way street.

Tigers have a decent young winger in their academy, might see him in the LV next year when he will be 18. Rhys Williams.

I think they key question in relation to the players escaping abroad are which ones are needed back home? If the answer is quite a few then maybe the system isn't working.

yes but two of our best players yesterday play their rugby abroad, so I dont quite buy that argument.

I suppose it all comes down to the purpose of the regions, are tey their to support the national side or to be successful entities in their own rights. obviously id say we all want both but in the cold light of day the biggest financial stakeholder in all the regions and in wales as a whole (wru) will only care about the national side

There needs to be balance or the whole thing is too top heavy to be sustainable. Saturday's result was in many ways the worst possible for Welsh rugby as a whole as the national obsession with giving England a bloody nose has writ Chairman Wodge a cart-blanche to continue his mission of dismantling his competitors in the Welsh regions and clubs. Never mind though the daffodil hats will go away til next February and it's all eyes back on the footie, welcome to our 'rugby nation' of Wales...

Stone Motif wrote:There needs to be balance or the whole thing is too top heavy to be sustainable. Saturday's result was in many ways the worst possible for Welsh rugby as a whole as the national obsession with giving England a bloody nose has writ Chairman Wodge a cart-blanche to continue his mission of dismantling his competitors in the Welsh regions and clubs. Never mind though the daffodil hats will go away til next February and it's all eyes back on the footie, welcome to our 'rugby nation' of Wales...

The most annoying thing is, listening to the '6ns only' fans and the radio news, that you would not actually know we retained the 6 Nations Championship. Nobody seems to care about that, all they are saying is how we beat England and ended their Grand Slam dreams. It is bloody pathetic, this tournament was dire, and we somehow won, but in the eyes of people like that the only think that matters is that we stopped England from a Grand Slam. As for the WRU, this has worked out very well for them to paper the cracks in a system that is clearly struggling. The regions are doing exactly what the WRU set them up for an producing top level players who can give the national side a good chance at winning things. Now Roge will have a better chance at selling this Judgement Day game to the '6ns only' fans, and milk the regions even more.

The problem I do have at the moment, is that people forget that the majority of the good young lads in the regions at the moment, have been there for a while, and had high quality players there when they were younger.

Leigh Halfpenny - Mike Blair
George North - Sean Lamont
Scott Williams & Jon Davies - Regan King
Dan Biggar - Gavin Henson / James Hook
Lloyd Williams - Gareth Cooper / Richie Rees
Justin Tipuric - Jerry Collins, Marty Hollah
Sam Warburton - Martyn Williams
Bradley Davies - Paul Tito
Richard Hibbard - Mefin Davies

If these sort of players were to be shipped off to the Jeff or T14, then would the coming generation be half as good, without the quality there to train with/push them?

Balance is difficult to achieve...look at France who is completely on the opposite: PSA has little access to his players for preparing the test matches (6-7 days before Vs 13-14 for Lancaster) and cannot really use a pool of 30+ players as they have to reduce to 23 quite quickly wich means quite limited training drills. if that doesnt change (suppose to be a meeting soon between FFR and LNR to discuss those terms) then we are stuffed for the next 10 years. On the other hand the clubs gets close to nothing when their players are away (as opposed to english clubs that are incentivised to have EPS players). The problem is that the FFR needs plenty of money to build their new stadium so we will probably only get worst with more international games and unprepared players till we get relagated to tier 3 rugby nations.

sorry am getting carried away but in some way, the Wales situation is not too bad...

The way I see it is ireland aren't that far away from bring good and are getting better at club level as a whole for the four teams.
Wales is getting worse at club level so it will be harder to turn things round when it does go bad.
We must also remember that in the last three years Wales have had two desperate losing runs. Which is the true Wales. Their losing runs is akin to the clubs where when they lose they have no confidence

It is hard to believe that a few years ago ulster and Connacht were fighting it out for last in the league. This year Connacht are pushing and could pass the blues with the dragons well behind.
As has been pointed out most of the current welsh team have had people to mentor them. Also if it weren't for the kicks of halfpenny Wales would have struggled to stay with teams.
I would rather have the irish system which is on the up and getting more and more money so are getting better coaches at club level, then Wales who when it does/has gone wrong they don't seem to have options to change things.

You're right, the Heineken is the real proof in the pudding as are results against the SH teams. This is the true measure and it tells us Ireland are playing below their means. The national team and the 6n in particular are so entrenched in Welsh 'rugby fans' minds they can't get that winning the 6n is less of a big deal these days. As long as we beat the English an all that...fact is Wales, when they are able to play their power game, are a very tough side to beat for the other NH teams but they're miles off the HC and regularly beating the big three, who can match them physically and have the game to put them away.