HIGGINS WORLD CHAMPION - A BAD DAY FOR SNOOKER???

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 03 May 2011, 10:40 am

First topic message reminder :

Just twelve months ago I saw a guy (watch on youtube) ask someone that if he took money for a bribe if could he "lose" the money on his Holiday home. For most the film we saw was quite revealing although the subsequent case absolved him of the major charge...

Remembering the fact that Michael Watson bankrupted the BBBC through the high court and Linford Christie threatened to the same to the athletic association if his drug test was upheld some of us weren't surprised that the wealthy Higgins got a punitive sentence......

Being American a two month ban was no surprise....Certainly looked a compromise.

Thing is 12 months later this guy is no1 and holder of the most prestigious title in the Sport......

Good day for snooker or not??? Me I think not.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:32 pm

Just to sum up how low the NOTW will go to get a story they are at it again:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13681812
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:51 pm

Cheers CC. They really are gutter press arent they.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:55 pm

Scum would be too nice a description.
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 10:26 pm

I really hate their kind of 'journalism'.
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Post by braveheart101 on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 10:38 pm

Liam_Main wrote:I was rooting for Trump in the final it must be said Higgins knew exactly what he was doing when meeting them men.
Firstly has anyone actually seen money changing hands
Second he has been found not guity of taking bribes or match fixing
Third why do you think his manager was banned for life from any involvment in snooker, its because he dealt with all financial aspects of Higgins career in the same way Jason Thame does with James Wade and other dart players. To quote Wade after winning UK open 'my manager deals with all the finances'
Don't you think Higgins or any other top sportsman for that matter would spend all their time practising rather than making arrangements to take bribes, match fixing etc.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 8:25 am

Yep. Well said. Not easy to win that title. The margin of error must be the smallest in any sport, the talent that is available.

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 11:51 am

It will be interesting to see just how far Higgins goes now. Easily the best of his generation but still a long way behind legends such as Hendry and Davis.
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Post by braveheart101 on Mon 13 Jun 2011, 4:33 pm

eirebilly wrote:It will be interesting to see just how far Higgins goes now. Easily the best of his generation but still a long way behind legends such as Hendry and Davis.
I think another 2 world titles isn't out of the question, don't think he will achieve his goal of matching Hendry's 7 world titles though. Don't you think that there are alot more top top players around now than there were when Hendry and Davis dominated the sport.

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Post by GeeMonkee on Wed 29 Jun 2011, 12:54 pm

It's worth noting that the FULL video hasn't been seen by the public, only by the snooker authorities.

With that in mind it's difficult to reach an informed opinion on this. It's all too easy to make a snap judgement while not having access to the full facts/evidence.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 29 Jun 2011, 7:12 pm

No mis-understanding to me....

Evidence looked pretty damning..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 29 Jun 2011, 7:13 pm

Notice he hasn't sued the news of the world who basically gutted him in front of the whole of Britain..

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Post by Guest on Thu 30 Jun 2011, 7:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Notice he hasn't sued the news of the world who basically gutted him in front of the whole of Britain..

I agree Truss. There will always be a cloud hanging over him no matter what he does.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 07 Jul 2011, 7:39 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Notice he hasn't sued the news of the world who basically gutted him in front of the whole of Britain..

Bit hard when the newspaper got assurances they wouldn't be sued (curiouis eh?) before they released all their 'evidence'. Hmmm that very same newspaper disgracefully in the news again for all the wrong reasons. Rolling Eyes
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 7:39 am

Oh this is sweet justice. The News Of The World to close. Where are all those anti-Higgins fans championing the cause of the NOTW now?
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Post by Guest on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 1:43 pm

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallelujah

It's great news that the gutter press, rif raf, toilet roll paper has been closed.

Unfortunately, they'll probably re-brand themselves as something else and be back in circulation within a few months.

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Post by Guest on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 6:02 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh this is sweet justice. The News Of The World to close. Where are all those anti-Higgins fans championing the cause of the NOTW now?

Of course it was The News of the World's fault that John Higgins agreed to throw a match. Silly me.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 6:57 pm

Nope it was the News Of The World that went to the trouble of 'manufacturing' a story by 'manufacturing' a tournament their reporters claimed to be organising (which they weren't of course) and those were the matches supposedly that were to be fixed but as we all know an independent tribunal after deliberation with the reporters were in agreement the charges should be dropped. Ho hum I hope those reporters are enjoying signing on.
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Post by Guest on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 7:14 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Nope it was the News Of The World that went to the trouble of 'manufacturing' a story by 'manufacturing' a tournament their reporters claimed to be organising (which they weren't of course) and those were the matches supposedly that were to be fixed but as we all know an independent tribunal after deliberation with the reporters were in agreement the charges should be dropped. Ho hum I hope those reporters are enjoying signing on.

Could it not have been in this flagging sports best interests that the independent tribunal cleared higgins in order to at least keep one of their very few stars in the game? I think the point had been made that had it been a 'poorer' snooker player at the centre of these allegations the outcome would have been very different? Nobody will ever know I suppose.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 8:05 pm

Oh right so an independent tribunal led by ex- top Metropolitan Police Officer is going to be caring about snookers interests? Clutching at straws there. The tribunal saw ALL the evidence and more and saw everything down to hotel bills and phone calls made etc and spoke to all parties and all parties agreed on the outcome. Now please explain why the NOTW never appealed the decision etc after all their video was made to look so damning it would have been a piece of cake. However, it is crystal clear there was much more to this case than a video patched together by a seedy newspaper hence the outcome.
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Post by Guest on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 8:25 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh right so an independent tribunal led by ex- top Metropolitan Police Officer is going to be caring about snookers interests? Clutching at straws there. The tribunal saw ALL the evidence and more and saw everything down to hotel bills and phone calls made etc and spoke to all parties and all parties agreed on the outcome. Now please explain why the NOTW never appealed the decision etc after all their video was made to look so damning it would have been a piece of cake. However, it is crystal clear there was much more to this case than a video patched together by a seedy newspaper hence the outcome.

There was nothing for the NOTW to appeal unless I am wrong and they have a vested interest in the sport? The outed him. If anything he would have taken them to task surely?

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Post by braveheart101 on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 8:39 pm

FreekShow wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh right so an independent tribunal led by ex- top Metropolitan Police Officer is going to be caring about snookers interests? Clutching at straws there. The tribunal saw ALL the evidence and more and saw everything down to hotel bills and phone calls made etc and spoke to all parties and all parties agreed on the outcome. Now please explain why the NOTW never appealed the decision etc after all their video was made to look so damning it would have been a piece of cake. However, it is crystal clear there was much more to this case than a video patched together by a seedy newspaper hence the outcome.

There was nothing for the NOTW to appeal unless I am wrong and they have a vested interest in the sport? The outed him. If anything he would have taken them to task surely?
If there was any REAL evidence then the independant tribunal would have found Higgins guilty and World Snooker would have given him a lengthy if not lifetime ban. As it happens he was cleared of match fixing charges and if World Snooker thought the tribunal was wrong in their decision why haven't they banned him anyway and let Higgins take the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and let them judge it. As for NOTW appealing any decisions that were made surely only World Snooker could have done that not a newspaper. Do you really think the NOTW were interested in what happened to Higgins. They fabricated a story to sell papers and thats all they cared about.

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Post by Guest on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 8:58 pm

braveheart101 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh right so an independent tribunal led by ex- top Metropolitan Police Officer is going to be caring about snookers interests? Clutching at straws there. The tribunal saw ALL the evidence and more and saw everything down to hotel bills and phone calls made etc and spoke to all parties and all parties agreed on the outcome. Now please explain why the NOTW never appealed the decision etc after all their video was made to look so damning it would have been a piece of cake. However, it is crystal clear there was much more to this case than a video patched together by a seedy newspaper hence the outcome.

There was nothing for the NOTW to appeal unless I am wrong and they have a vested interest in the sport? The outed him. If anything he would have taken them to task surely?
If there was any REAL evidence then the independant tribunal would have found Higgins guilty and World Snooker would have given him a lengthy if not lifetime ban. As it happens he was cleared of match fixing charges and if World Snooker thought the tribunal was wrong in their decision why haven't they banned him anyway and let Higgins take the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport and let them judge it. As for NOTW appealing any decisions that were made surely only World Snooker could have done that not a newspaper. Do you really think the NOTW were interested in what happened to Higgins. They fabricated a story to sell papers and thats all they cared about.

I take your point braveheart but why has the interview in it's entirety not been released? Surely this would nip it in the bud completely? John Higgins asking how he could 'swallow 300 grand' was not a fabrication but an actual occurrence. What was exposed looked pretty damning but we can argue until the cows come home. Everybody has their own opinion of John Higgins and there will always be a black cloud hanging over him which is sad because he is an outstanding snooker player.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 9:06 pm

Sorry FreekShow but NOTW chose what we saw. The whole video evidence has been seen by the only people qualified to judge (the independent tribunal) and we all know the result of that. You are right there will always be a black cloud over him and there always be those that choose to sleep with the devil and take the side of the seedy NoTW which I find remarkable but only because they are anti-Higgins and will cling on to anything they can use against him.
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Post by braveheart101 on Fri 08 Jul 2011, 10:13 pm

FreekShow wrote:
I take your point braveheart but why has the interview in it's entirety not been released? Surely this would nip it in the bud completely? John Higgins asking how he could 'swallow 300 grand' was not a fabrication but an actual occurrence. What was exposed looked pretty damning but we can argue until the cows come home. Everybody has their own opinion of John Higgins and there will always be a black cloud hanging over him which is sad because he is an outstanding snooker player.
Yes it was said but it was a set up by the NOTW and if the whole video was released it would most probably show the public how underhand and devious they were and could even prove to everyone that Higgins is innocent, why else would NOTW only show a certain part of it, for all we know other parts of it could have landed the paper in alot of trouble which is why only a handful of people have seen it. As for what has been seen being damning that is why Higgins was suspended for 6 months, for giving the impression he would breach betting rules, failing to report the meeting to World Snooker and bringing the game into disrepute not actually taking money to deliberately lose frames

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 09 Jul 2011, 4:03 pm

Pretty sad to see so many people backing Higgins over this when he asked if he could avoid paying tax on the prospective bung.....

That was most damning to me..

Forget journalistic practice is a strange thing for someone to say..

Is it not??

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Post by Guest on Sat 09 Jul 2011, 7:29 pm

Tbh, I'm astounded that people are so quick to make judgements.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

At most John Higgins's detractors can suggest that there appeared to be some wrongdoing on his part, but to claim that he is definitely guilty of those charges, without seeing all the evidence, and basing that assumption on an EDITED piece of footage presented by one of the most unscrupulous tabloid newspapers in this country, is unfair, narrow minded and immature.

Who knows why John said what he said in the portion of the video the NOTW allowed us to see. We are not aware of any extenuating circumstances. Did he feel threatened? did he think it was a private joke? The point is we don't know.

I'm sure those who are so quick to make themselves judge, jury and executioner are the very same people who would vehemently defend their own right to a fair process in similar or otherwise circumstances.

Perhaps we should return to the good old days of burning witches at the stake?

emancipator - telling it how it is

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Post by braveheart101 on Sun 10 Jul 2011, 4:56 pm

emancipator wrote:Tbh, I'm astounded that people are so quick to make judgements.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

At most John Higgins's detractors can suggest that there appeared to be some wrongdoing on his part, but to claim that he is definitely guilty of those charges, without seeing all the evidence, and basing that assumption on an EDITED piece of footage presented by one of the most unscrupulous tabloid newspapers in this country, is unfair, narrow minded and immature.

Who knows why John said what he said in the portion of the video the NOTW allowed us to see. We are not aware of any extenuating circumstances. Did he feel threatened? did he think it was a private joke? The point is we don't know.

I'm sure those who are so quick to make themselves judge, jury and executioner are the very same people who would vehemently defend their own right to a fair process in similar or otherwise circumstances.

Perhaps we should return to the good old days of burning witches at the stake?

emancipator - telling it how it is
Well said emancipator. It seems that alot of people have made their minds up without ever being able to see ALL of the evidence. Would these same people still think John Higgins was guilty if this case had been heard in a court of law and he had been found NOT GUILTY. Maybe now that the NOTW is no more the original UNEDITED version of this video can be made public so everyone can see how these events came about and how Higgins was SET UP by an underhand devious group of 'journalists'

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 11 Jul 2011, 7:35 am

The laughable thing here is that even the NOTW reporters involved told thwe investigators they were sure Higgins knew nothing of the 'stinng' until it was sprung on him at the meeting. The ex-MET police officer has seen the evidence as well that clearly suggests that as well where the video shows the pair first coming into the room and Mooney says to Higgins under his breath:'If they bring up match-fixing just go along with it'. Also ask yourselves why Mooney (a member on the WPBSA board) was suspended for life if this tribunal was not fair and snooker tried to cover things up. Surely, they would have looked after their own first. Sadly, there are snooker fans that will cling to this video for an excuse to place their player over John Higgins in the 'greatest snooker player debate'.
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Post by eirebilly on Sun 17 Jul 2011, 10:59 am

The whole situation is ridiculous but thankfully NoTW is now being exposed for the gutter press that they are.
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