P4P - Is Boxing still as hot as ever????

Whilst strength in depth is an issue maybe If we look at the p4p list it stacks up pretty well.........Some guys would beat the best 80's opponents at their weights.

Klit v Holmes.........Wlad just..
Broner v Leonard........Leonard for now!!
Ward v Park.............Ward
Marquez v Pryor............Marquez for me
Donaire v Gomez..........Gomez probably
Martinez v Hagler..........Hagler
Mayweather v MCcallum .....Mayweather over 12........4-3 to the present.

Obviously some of the top 10 are in the same weight class so I moved Floyd up to JR midd..........

Whilst Boxing is in a malaise it shows at the top the cream is still there!!

According to you.

Pryor beats Marquez, takes a few counter shots but beats him.
Wlad never beats Holmes don't be silly now. Holmes is just as tall as Wlad, has longer reach and is much quicker. Plays with Wlad and the ko's him round 8 to 10.

obviously according to me...but feel free to disagree....

Larry struggled with bigger..taller Boxers....Smith...Witherspoon...Williams all gave him problems.......

Holmes struggles to get inside like most do..........Larry didn't rap that hard either...


Guys like Corrie rapped harder....

I can't see how Wlad beats Holmes. You're mentioning names who gave Larry problems when Larry was way past it. Not a fair comparison.

I can't see a time when Broner would have beaten Leonard. And McCallum was a natural LMW/MW. Highly skilled and too big for Floyd.

Larry wasn't way past it when he fought Witherspoon........also he fought stiffs before then....or guys like Shavers and Norton that stood in front of him and lacked a top jab.....

Larry struggled with the type of fighter Wlad was..

Tim was a class act. No shame in having issues with him. Norton gave Ali fits also. No surprise he gave boxers who had a good jab nightmares.

Norton isn't in the Klit mode............Larry struggled with taller boxers with a jab...Holmes wasn't a great inside fighter.

Wlad struggled with boxers who moved.

I'd say that Larry would have trouble with Wladimir but would eventually see it out and get the win. Wladimir's a bit quicker and, while Holmes had a brilliant jab, he was vulnerable to taking one himself and was a bit more reckless than the Wladimir of recent years!

However, I think Holmes' movement (he went side to side as opposed to Wladimir, who just goes forwards or backwards) and fitness allow him to find enough angles to win the judges over. It would take a lot of movement on Larry's part as he struggled on the inside even when smaller guys like Spinks leaned on him and tied him up, but if he can keep the fight at a decent range I think he throws more shots and can take Wladimir's best ones to win it on the cards - in a fifteen rounder, I don't fully rule out the chance of him stopping Wlad, either.

Leonard for now? You have high hopes for boner truss. A lot of good attributes and time to improve but way too easy to hit for Leonard now or ever.

I too think wlad would give Larry problems, think big pants might get to him late on, but close call.

Marquez Pryor would be a cracking fight style wise and donaire Gomez might be about who lands big first.

Some good match ups

it is so pointless arguing who would win.

victorgarco wrote:it is so pointless arguing who would win.

There's a Log Out button at the top right of your screen...

I'd pick Holmes over Wlad. Wlad has decent footwork but nothing on the level of the way Holmes could move around the ring. Wlad has serious power in his right hand which is at all time great level so he would worry any former champ with it. In saying that Holmes could take a punch, by comparison Wlad is pure glass. If Holmes keeps circling and picking his punches he beats Wlad on points with there always being a chance of a knockout. It's all about movement for Holmes.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

victorgarco wrote:it is so pointless arguing who would win.

There's a Log Out button at the top right of your screen...

Shame you don't use it

You are an increasingly pointless poster.

Did he ever have a point?

I think you're giving the current crop a bit too much credit here though Truss, as much as I appreciate Marquez's skill and endurance I can't see how he handles a genuine 140lber like Pryor. If you're going by a textbook then it's a shutout for JMM but the relentless pressure of Pryor is something you can't prepare for, it's one thing doing it against Pacquiao who has his faults but does actually punch very correctly. Pryor does not as Arguello found out, it's very difficult to adapt to someone who himself doesn't know what he'll be throwing next.

The hardest one to figure out is Donaire against Gomez, despite starting at flyweight I think Donaire is going to be holding all the cards physically but it's hard to ignore the power of Gomez at the weight. Of the two Donaire is the quicker, more skilled and arguably more durable of the pair so with no great confidence i'd pick him to win by KO around the 9th or 10th round but with the caveat that Gomez could knock him out if he connects.

Holmes UD
Leonard Mid round KO
Ward easy decisions
Pryor LKO
Donaire LKO/UD
Hagler EKO
MCcallum UD or KO at any point

I make it 5-2 to the 80's lot but that's without including Arguello, Duran, Hearns, Pintor and Sanchez to add some serious strength in depth.

Just think Marquez gets the nod over 12.......15 Pryor's relentlessness becomes a different proposition Mate...

Mayweather too cute for Mccallum.........over 12....It took Mike 8 rounds to get on top of Mccrory....

Can't see it myself Truss, Mayweather has looked far from his best at 154lbs against two guys who aren't in McCallums class at the weight.

You put Pryor into a 12 round fight and he's going to start even faster than he did knowing he doesn't have to pace himself for those extra 3 rounds, Marquez is a great boxer but I wouldn't back anyone over Pryor at 140lbs.

But Mccallum has been outboxed by several guys who aren't in his class.....

Kalambay...........160 I know but he got done by a half decent technician....Curry outboxed him before the lottery ticket win........

I don't see Mccallum stopping him and he'd need to..........Mccallum a tad overrated for me......Graham should have beat him..

Well you're views on the Curry fight are a little wide of the mark for my liking, that punch had been coming for a round or two prior to that and was certainly not the schooling you make out.

Being beaten by middleweights is no real indication of how he would do against a small Welterweight, size, power, strength and chin will all play a massive part just ask Curry and McCrory who couldn't begin to make a dent in him and they both punch harder than Mayweather.

Marquez/Pryor is a really interesting one, however have to think that if the volume of Diaz at LW is enough to cause Marquez a lot of problems and going into the middle stages it looked uncertain as to who would win, have to believe that Pryor at 140 may just have too much for him. At the same time, Marquez is a brilliant counter puncher, and would take the Hawk to a places he hasn't seen in terms of catching him with plenty of hooks to the body. Tough one to call over 12, Marquez hasn't ever fought over 15 it has to be said though.

the scorecards didn't suggest it was coming..

So Kalambay's bulk was the reason he got his ears boxed off was it??

Mccallum nearly got decked in the 2nd off Curry!!

Funny thing is Pryor was a natural LW, imagine if everybody hadn't been too afraid of him in that weight class, he would have been a complete destroyer.

Pryor destroys him - much too big, too strong, too fast and non stop punches being thrown, also he can box if required.

The scorecards kind of did suggest it was coming Truss; 37-38, 38-39 and an absurd 36-40, the fight simply isn't the one sided schooling you want to paint it out to be, the wonders of youtube allow me to watch it and realise that McCallum had started to click in the 3rd round. He was one fighter in particular who was affected most by the change to 12 round fights, he was a notoriously slow starter who chugged through the gears and came on strong late on, in my opinion over 15 he beats Kalamby first time round, knocks Graham out and beats Toney the first time as well.

38-37 was absurd.............2nd round was 10-8 for a start...

I had it 40-37...........He was getting outboxed.....Curry was having a great round in the 5th also..

In your very biased view you may well have done.

No in an unbiased view he was getting his ears boxed off.........

You must have seen a different fight to me then Truss.

Ko magazine had it 39-37..........same as HBO....

Not the only one who saw it different...

I can make up my own mind, also not overly bothered by what an american magazine and tv station say when it concerns an american fighter.

Interesting. Im not too familiar with some of those names from the current list. But I imagine the 80s would be alot stronger. Leonard, Duran, Hearns, Hagler, Tyson, Spinks, Sanchez, Chavez, Nelson are all a cut above. I think boxing has gone downhill since then.

winchester wrote:Interesting. Im not too familiar with some of those names from the current list. But I imagine the 80s would be alot stronger. Leonard, Duran, Hearns, Hagler, Tyson, Spinks, Sanchez, Chavez, Nelson are all a cut above. I think boxing has gone downhill since then.

By the way, welcome back Gordy.

American TV station had Leonard on it who was being sued by Curry at the time...MCcallum was an American citizen anyway..

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The scorecards kind of did suggest it was coming Truss; 37-38, 38-39 and an absurd 36-40, the fight simply isn't the one sided schooling you want to paint it out to be, the wonders of youtube allow me to watch it and realise that McCallum had started to click in the 3rd round. He was one fighter in particular who was affected most by the change to 12 round fights, he was a notoriously slow starter who chugged through the gears and came on strong late on, in my opinion over 15 he beats Kalamby first time round, knocks Graham out and beats Toney the first time as well.

I personally think that McCallum may well have been stopped with an extra three rounds at the end of that one, Ghosty. He was all over the place in the twelfth and was out on his feet when the final bell sounded. At the very least, I'd have said Toney would have pulled away further to make sure of the win. McCallum the Middleweight was far from perfect and I think he was a bit fortunate to get a share of the spoils in that one.

However, I agree with a lot of your other points. Might not have stopped Herol but would certainly have made the decision more emphatic and unquestionable at the very least had he had another three rounds; Graham just stopped working in the second half of that fight and Mike was really punishing him to the body.

Mayweather-McCallum at 154? Not as cut and dried for me, even though it was Mike's best weight by a mile. McCallum wasn't the most elusive target and was vulnerable against serious speed from time to time so I don't think he wins this one at a canter and I don't see Floyd getting as over-confident as Curry did (it must have been a good three or four times before the knockout that Curry came in with a quick jab and darted back out with his gloves down and chin in the air).

However, McCallum's subtle pressure is different to the kind of straight up, in your face style which Gatti, Hatton and Corrales let Mayweather feast on and I can maybe imagine it being similar to Mayweather's first fight against Castillo, where the Mexican stalked Floyd so well and intently that Mayweather just couldn't find the room to get off. I see McCallum missing with a lot of punches as Castillo did, but I think his greater attacking arsenal, added weight and refusal to fall in to the trap of coming forward without throwing (as Castillo did now and then) would combine to make it all a bit too much for Floyd.

Mayweather doesn't get beaten up or outclassed, but doesn't throw enough or command McCallum's respect with his own punching enough to win this one. McCallum by two or three rounds on all cards.

88Chris05 wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The scorecards kind of did suggest it was coming Truss; 37-38, 38-39 and an absurd 36-40, the fight simply isn't the one sided schooling you want to paint it out to be, the wonders of youtube allow me to watch it and realise that McCallum had started to click in the 3rd round. He was one fighter in particular who was affected most by the change to 12 round fights, he was a notoriously slow starter who chugged through the gears and came on strong late on, in my opinion over 15 he beats Kalamby first time round, knocks Graham out and beats Toney the first time as well.

I personally think that McCallum may well have been stopped with an extra three rounds at the end of that one, Ghosty. He was all over the place in the twelfth and was out on his feet when the final bell sounded. At the very least, I'd have said Toney would have pulled away further to make sure of the win. McCallum the Middleweight was far from perfect and I think he was a bit fortunate to get a share of the spoils in that one.

However, I agree with a lot of your other points. Might not have stopped Herol but would certainly have made the decision more emphatic and unquestionable at the very least had he had another three rounds; Graham just stopped working in the second half of that fight and Mike was really punishing him to the body.

Mayweather-McCallum at 154? Not as cut and dried for me, even though it was Mike's best weight by a mile. McCallum wasn't the most elusive target and was vulnerable against serious speed from time to time so I don't think he wins this one at a canter and I don't see Floyd getting as over-confident as Curry did (it must have been a good three or four times before the knockout that Curry came in with a quick jab and darted back out with his gloves down and chin in the air).

However, McCallum's subtle pressure is different to the kind of straight up, in your face style which Gatti, Hatton and Corrales let Mayweather feast on and I can maybe imagine it being similar to Mayweather's first fight against Castillo, where the Mexican stalked Floyd so well and intently that Mayweather just couldn't find the room to get off. I see McCallum missing with a lot of punches as Castillo did, but I think his greater attacking arsenal, added weight and refusal to fall in to the trap of coming forward without throwing (as Castillo did now and then) would combine to make it all a bit too much for Floyd.

Mayweather doesn't get beaten up or outclassed, but doesn't throw enough or command McCallum's respect with his own punching enough to win this one. McCallum by two or three rounds on all cards.

Offt, I see where you're coming from CHris... But at the same time, I'm just not all too sure...

Castillo did that to Floyd when Floyd was just moving up to become a LW, but he was still relatively inexperienced at thast stage and I think he learned his lesson from the Castillo fight also., He was also, lest we forget injured during that fight which stopped him throwing the jab effectively, which is pretty much the ultimate come-forward stopper.

For me it's a who's better on the night, but most times out of 10 I just see Floyd moving around the ring a bit too effectively, similar to how he moved against Hatrton, he just seemed so much smarter to being pressured come 2007 rather than the skinny LW that nearly lost to Castillo to me.

I see your points as well Alex, and as I said I definitely don't see a McCallum win at 154 as a done deal. Mayweather's such a special fighter that it's always difficult to say when exactly he would have reached his absolute limit.

There's a difference between boxing going away and actually getting backed up or forced in to retreat, though. Mayweather's just a man at the end of the day and we've seen against De la Hoya that keeping those naturally bigger lads off him can be a problem, and Oscar is no career eleven stoner like Mike. Floyd's a tough customer but McCallum was immensely strong, was exceedingly difficult to hurt (none other than Julian Jackson chin checked him at 154 and Mike, though shaken, roared back to stop him in the very next round) and had a great punch variety himself. I just don't think Floyd gets enough space and time to win a decision and he doesn't want to be engaging McCallum on the inside more than he has to.

Not a slight against Mayweather, who stands a chance against anyone between Super-Feather and Light-Welter in history. At Welter his naturally smaller frame may prevent problems, but at 154 I can't see him beating the very, very best. Hearns and Norris would both have too much for Floyd at Light-Middle in my opinion, and I'd just about add McCallum to that as well.