British MW's Are Overrated And That Includes BJS

Sorry but they are.

Barker has not got world class punching power and that will see him fail in his bid to win a world title. Plus, what is his biggest win? How near to world level is that win? Not very.

Macklin just talks smack to get big fights, but he'll always be found wanting, not technical enough, to easily outsmarted, not smart enough to catch an elusive world level pro.

Lee lacks the killer instinct. Sorry, but he's probably the most decorated of all of them in terms of amateur fights, has the size and reach, but lacks the killer instinct.

Murray is good and has the will but not the experience. He's not fought regularly enough either. In fact, none of these have IMO.

Billie Joe Saunders is the most talented but needs to work on power, and endurance. He can look a bit James Degale, flashy but with no end result, and he can be hit. He did well in his last fight, but, not as well as he should have. He should have got that guy out of there, he needs to if he's going to progress. Maybe it was a fight for focusing on stamina?

I like all these fighters but they need to step up their level of opponent and get some decent wins before going for another world title. I know, FIGHT EACH OTHER!

*edit* I'll rise to the WUM bait here.

Barker - Over rated? Who's rating him beyond Euro level? He lost his only fight to probably the best MW out there. Martinez is elite world level. He stepped up and lost. No shame in that. He even pushed him to the late part of the fight. Barker is still a good boxer, just because he isn't world level at the minute doesn't mean he's over rated.

Macklin beat in many peoples eyes - Felix Sturm, who although limited is a good boxer with a good career behind him. Since he's gone away and not been saying "I deserve a world title shot" and not many people have been saying to give him one either.

Murray is again a very good boxer, not world level, as he'll lose against Martinez, but then again, who's over rating them?

BJS is still on a learning curve. I've yet to see anyone on here claim he's going to be a new Mayweather. Wind your neck in sunshine.

You're clearly looking for a response. There it is.

Also, can you refrain from capitalising letters at the start of words in a topic title? It looks five knuckle shuffle.

Debate it you turkey. Debate it.

davidemore wrote:Debate it you turkey. Debate it.

Debate the subject not the poster please. If you have no opinion on the subject feel free not to post. Far easier than the other route and the clean up job it inevitably creates for us mods.

cheers

"vulva equinox"

How can i take you seriously?

Thanks Rowley, I truly believe this lot are European at best at the mo.

davidemore wrote:"vulva equinox"

How can i take you seriously?

Call him by his old name then.

Coxy. You'll probably remember him.

'Overrated' needs context, Davide. Just because a fighter isn't from the elite bracket it doesn't automatically mean they're overrated, particularly when nobody is saying that they are of that class.

Barker is on the fringe of world level and that's basically how most regard him as a talent. Macklin, who I have a hell of a lot of time for and is more than capable of beating someone like Geale for a belt, should arguably already have one of them from when he boxed Sturm in the German's backyard. He didn't exactly disgrace himself in his challenge of Martinez, either.

I'm not entirely sold on Lee either, but again, 'overrated' needs context. Who exactly is describing him as anything other than a European level operator with hopes of maybe going beyond that in the future?

I think Saunders may well end up being a fighter who is worth the 'hype' and I think he'll be a real force at world level (although if he can make 154 he should maybe look there, as he's pretty small for a Middleweight). He's a genuine all-rounder and a natural mover who has some real class to him. It's early days, and with Warren's depleted stable there's a concern that he'll maybe match him too carefully over the next year or two, but let's give the lad a proper chance before we start chucking around the word 'overrated', seeing as his career is still only just getting started, effectively.

I gave them context Chris, re-read, i talked about opponent, amateur experience and best wins. Also, they've lost to world champions (or worse) convincingly, all of them bar BJS.

Rowley wrote:Debate the subject not the poster please. If you have no opinion on the subject feel free not to post. Far easier than the other route and the clean up job it inevitably creates for us mods.

cheers

I did, I went back and amended my post, however you must admit this article does smell like Dawn Frenches knickers after a vindaloo and prune juice

davidemore wrote:Also, they've lost to world champions (or worse) convincingly

Actually watch Sturm vs Macklin or Sturm vs Murray and then have an opinion.

davidemore wrote:I gave them context Chris, re-read, i talked about opponent, amateur experience and best wins. Also, they've lost to world champions (or worse) convincingly, all of them bar BJS.

Yeah, you did - but to call them overrated would suggest that many observers are giving them too much hype and kudos for their careers so far, and I just don't see that in general. That's what I was getting at in terms of context. Much of what you've written in the article is true in some degree, but my point is that most would agree with it, so who exactly is overrated any of these fighters?

This article is clearly a backlash against the Sky Hype machine who feel the need to claim every British fighter they show is "world class" or "fringe world class". They've very free and easy with these terms, in much the same way they bandy about the word "legend".

It isn't just the MW who get the five star treatment. They're doing it with Cleverley and Bellew Froch, Groves and Degale, Kell Brook, Carl Frampton etc etc etc with very few of them what most would consider to be genuine world class

Adam Smith needs a "world class" kicking for continually spouting this drivel. However, I'll forgive Glenn McCrory cos basically he simply doesn't know any better.

My own view is I don’t think they are particularly over rated but it is inevitable they will garner attention and column inches because it is rare that in Britain we will have four or five guys in the same division where you can pretty much out any two together and get either a close or intriguing match up and whatever their relative abilities you can pick any match up from Murray, Lee, Macklin or Barker and I would be interested in seeing it.

The situation is similar to the light middles a few years ago when there were guys like Stone, Roberts, Alexander, Takaloo and Williams. None of these fighters were world class and as Stone’s showing against Mosley showed they were probably a damned sight further away from it than our current middles. They still received plenty of press in disproportion to their talents as they represented some potentially mouth watering match ups.

i think murray will get a title, he gave martinez his best fight, and 99% of people think he won strum. his 1st round KO of acline was a great return.

they need to get in the ring with each other, find out the old fashioned way whos best.

eddyfightfan wrote:i think murray will get a title, he gave martinez his best fight, and 99% of people think he won strum. his 1st round KO of acline was a great return.

they need to get in the ring with each other, find out the old fashioned way whos best.

You mean Macklin?

Pedro147 wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:i think murray will get a title, he gave martinez his best fight, and 99% of people think he won strum. his 1st round KO of acline was a great return.

they need to get in the ring with each other, find out the old fashioned way whos best.

You mean Macklin?

i do indeed.

vulva equinox wrote:

davidemore wrote:Debate it you turkey. Debate it.

Hi Coxy001

azania wrote:

vulva equinox wrote:

davidemore wrote:Debate it you turkey. Debate it.

Hi Coxy001

Seriously?

davidemore wrote:Thanks Rowley, I truly believe this lot are European at best at the mo.

Who's said much different?

Other maybe Macklin, who 'beat' a world champ.

davidemore wrote:I gave them context Chris, re-read, i talked about opponent, amateur experience and best wins. Also, they've lost to world champions (or worse) convincingly, all of them bar BJS.

The context required is regarding the word 'over-rated' as it’s a relative term. There’s a pretty clear top 5 (Golovkin, Geale, JCCJr, Quillin, Martinez), the Brit guys fit into the next bracket down and I don’t think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

Though I’d give Macklin a shout against Geale if he was at his best.

Don't two of those fighters represent Ireland?

Sheng would have got two days out of this 'insult'.

Meh

i would fancy macklin against geale and maybe even JCC jr

I wouldn't against the juice man, Geale has a good work rate and can fight to a plan so he'd be tricky too. Mack the Knife is way overrated, and a little delusional, but i wish him well.

JCC jr definetly has the power to stop macklin, but he is there to be outworked, and is only really dangerous if you allow him to trap you on the ropes.

macklin's win over acline, and showings in the martinez/sturms fights prove he is at a certain level, and JCC is a step down in quality from the likes of martinez, so where else would you rank macklin?

I just wish they would face each other.

Macklin is too inactive and waiting for a payday. I hope they all fight though.

im actually suprised with macklins inactivity, he hasnt fought since last september. hopefully something will be announced soon.

Macklin was on Ringside a few weeks back saying they were close do a world title fight. He is based in the U.S now and promoted by DiBella who I dont think is as interested in the all British showdowns as the others. Barker could do with getting a run fitness together.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

davidemore wrote:I gave them context Chris, re-read, i talked about opponent, amateur experience and best wins. Also, they've lost to world champions (or worse) convincingly, all of them bar BJS.

The context required is regarding the word 'over-rated' as it’s a relative term. There’s a pretty clear top 5 (Golovkin, Geale, JCCJr, Quillin, Martinez), the Brit guys fit into the next bracket down and I don’t think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

Though I’d give Macklin a shout against Geale if he was at his best.

I'd only be confident in backing Martinez to beat Macklin if i'm honest. Geale, Quillin and Chavez would be very winnable fights for him and after his showing against N'Dam N'Jikam i'd make him favourite over both Geale and Quillin while the only thing Chavez has over him is his size. Compare their showings against Martinez for instance, Macklin showed he belonged at world level while Chavez baring the 12th looked like he was no where near world level.

They are all doing their very best to avoid each other. It's a shame really as it would make for some pretty decent scraps.

Think Barker is the best of the lot. Just has that little bit more composure.

BJs are not overrated

azania wrote:BJs are not overrated

Different perspective I suspect, hes the one giving em.

ShahenshahG wrote:

azania wrote:BJs are not overrated

Different perspective I suspect, hes the one giving em.

He's a Wlad impersonator?

Unfortunately for Davide Wlad is now engaged to be married to a american blonde called hay patty. The lengths some people will go for a visa eh.

actually thought this was one of davides better topics...

i agree that the british middleweights get overrated by some. not BJS though. he deserves more credit and exposure than he has had so far, and could go on to big things.

barker has done very little. not his fault hes been injured so much, but he has gained more respect from me as a pundit than he has as a fighter so far.

murray clearly lost to sturm, and was gifted a draw because of the backlash sturm recieved from the macklin fight. he has skipped european and top domestic level to get two title shots.

i blame the likes of martinez giving these guys title shots instead of making them earn them. no wonder they dont want to fight each other when they can just hang around to get big money fights off champions like sturm and martinez who cant be bothered to fight each other.

Quilin is quality. i would bet my house he beats macklin easily...