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Latest European rumblings

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:10 am

First topic message reminder :

Rather desperate PR effort from the Torygraph on the part of PRL and McCafferty:

Heineken Cup under threat as top English clubs consider alternatives

England’s leading clubs are set to consider a number of radical alternatives to the Heineken Cup at a board meeting next month that could shape the future of the European game, Telegraph Sport can disclose.

Up for discussion are a world club championship, a fourth England Test match every autumn and an expanded Premiership.

An enhanced and expanded Anglo-Welsh competition, including a new sevens tournament, is also expected to come under consideration as an alternative to the nine European weekends in the current season.

It is understood Premiership Rugby is to put the proposals to club owners and shareholders amid increasing frustration at the lack of progress on negotiations with its fellow European Rugby Cup stakeholders over the future structure of the current European competitions.

The English and French clubs served the necessary two years’ notice to leave the current accord that governs the Heineken and Amlin Challenge Cup more than nine months ago.

The English clubs, along with their French counterparts, are demanding reform of the Heineken Cup, including a reduction of the number of clubs from 24 to 20, a strengthening of the Amlin Challenge Cup and the introduction of a third tier competition.

While it would still prefer to strike a deal with its ERC stakeholders and make new European competitions work, Premiership Rugby is not prepared to accept the status quo, which guarantees all four Italian and Scottish Pro12 clubs places in the Heineken Cup.

After four stakeholder meetings, there is still no sign of any agreement being reached. With no further meetings planned – and it is understood the issue was not raised at the regular ERC board meeting last week ahead of this weekend’s quarter-finals – there is a growing sense of urgency in the English game to consider real alternatives for the 2014-15 season when, in the absence of agreement, the Heineken Cup will cease to exist.

Premiership Rugby has already presented a compromise over its original demand that only the top six of the Pro12 clubs should qualify for the Heineken Cup, suggesting that the top four Pro12 sides would qualify, with the final two qualifiers based on geography to ensure every country was represented in the tournament. That has not been accepted by the other ERC stakeholders.

Parallel to its search for a European solution, Premiership Rugby is understood to have held exploratory talks with the Super Rugby clubs in the southern hemisphere as well as the Welsh regions.

It is understood the possibility of a world club championship, staged every two years and involving the champions of the leagues in the northern and southern hemisphere including Super Rugby, is one concept expected to be put forward for further consideration by the English club owners.

A Premiership expanded from 12 to 14 sides would also give clubs an extra two home games and four extra rounds, and their financial position is strengthened by the controversial new television deal with BT Vision, which for Premiership games alone will almost cover current income from both the Premiership and European competitions.

That deal caused widespread anger in the Celtic unions and led to ERC also announcing on the same day last September an extension of the current agreement with Sky Sports.

Premiership Rugby is also likely to present a proposal for consideration to extend its current deal of releasing its players to the Rugby Football Union once every two years for a fourth Test match outside the International Rugby Board autumn window.

A fourth Test every year would be worth at least £3 million in extra revenue to the Premiership clubs, who currently receive around £8.5 million for their participation in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup.

Reform of the distribution of central ERC revenue is also one of the main demands of the English and French clubs. Currently the Pro12 clubs receive 52 per cent of funding with the English and French receiving 24 per cent each.

That format has meant the Pro12 clubs have benefited to the tune of €30  million (£25.5 million) over the last five years, according to Premiership Rugby’s calculations. The English and French clubs both want an equal three-way split in funding between the three leagues.

Exploratory talks with the four regions in Wales last month are unlikely to lead to Welsh clubs joining the Premiership despite the fallout between the Cardiff Blues, Scarlets, Ospreys and Newport Gwent Dragons over funding and player contracts. However, Premiership Rugby believes the commercial value of the LV Cup has not been maximised.

The potential for increased revenues as part of the Premiership’s BT Vision deal for European games could also tempt the Welsh regions to consider a new European competition if the dispute over the Heineken Cup is not resolved.

How clubs could fill their vacant European weekends

Plan A
A world club championship, held every two years, could run over two or three weekends, bringing together the champions of leagues from both hemispheres including Super Rugby clubs. Talks have already been held with SANZAR clubs, and the likes of Natal Sharks would be a huge draw in England.

Plan B
A Premiership expanded from 12 to 14 clubs would give each club two more guaranteed home games – they presently host three in the European competition – and four extra rounds. An enhanced Anglo-Welsh tournament would also help fill the nine European weekends.

Plan C
Allowing the release of their players for a fourth England Test match outside of the International Rugby Board window every autumn – currently they are released only once every two years – could net the Premiership clubs an extra £3million per game. Their present annual share of ERC revenue is £8.5million.

Until McCafferty puts his own house in order, see thread regarding Prem finances, then it's not clear why any of the other nations involved (NOT leagues FFS!) should take him seriously - you sir are a contemptible hypocrite

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:57 pm

Personally, I'm leaning the way of TrailApe. Smash the whole thing up and start again. We have 9 European weekends we can use in a season and a blank canvas. Let's go.

Agreed Robbo.

I'm sick of postulating Nx8 pools with no free passes or lucky losers of any kind.

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Post by Feckless Rogue Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:17 pm

Joe Schmidts opinion.

Schmidt, meanwhile, has called on the warring politicians of European rugby to listen to the supporters and pull out all the stops to save the Heineken Cup. The English and French clubs are at loggerheads with their rivals from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy over the future shape of European rugby.
Talks have reached a stalemate and if no agreement can be put in place for the 2014-15 season then there will be no Heineken Cup and no Amlin Challenge Cup.
Schmidt, who guided Leinster to successive Heineken Cup triumphs, finds it unbelievable that the game’s power brokers would betray such a popular and valuable competition.
“You cannot have a product that is this good and not continue it,” Schmidt said. “The Premiership clubs are pretty well represented this year. Leicester, Saracens and Harlequins all have great shots. That inevitably will get enthusiasm and clubs will want to do what their supporters want to see.
“Therefore, with competitions like this, I just don’t think people are going to allow to let it slip. I think one of the options that have been discussed will come to be and hopefully it will be inclusive of the whole of Europe and we will continue what has been a fantastic tradition over the last 15 years.”

Although I've been pretty astounded by the attitude of some English fans on this forum. If they're representative of English fans generally then I don't know if they'll be demanding the continuation of the HC as much as Schmidt thinks.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:02 pm

We all want the HEC feckless, no one wants to lose it. English fans would also like a revamped Amlin and the Sky coverage either ended or made to pay for the quality they get. We have ESPN and we've come to realise just how bad the Sky coverage is.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:44 pm

The idea that there may not be a HC after 2014 is unbelieveable.

By far the best club competition in the world.

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