The Froch legacy

First topic message reminder :

Simple question, were Froch to beat Kessler in the May 25th rematch at the O2 Arena, would his resume overtake Zaghe's?


Thoughts?

andrade was robbed the first time round, no two ways about it, bute was completely out and the ref stopped mid count to tell andrade to get in the neutral corner, where he already was.

however the second fight he handled him much easier and proved his point.

I dont really think Andrade was robbed. He floors Bute with about 4/5 seconds left and Bute gets back up within ten seconds of it. The fight is over then. The only way Andrade would have won is if the ref waved off the fight which would have then led to controversy on the other end. As far as I can see Bute beats a count of ten seconds and the fight is over. The ref might delay a bit but if you count the length of time Bute is on the floor to when he gets to his feet then its less than 10 seconds for me.

You can't be saved by the bell in any round including the 12th and final round, he was in no shape to continue at the count of ten so should have been stopped.

To be honest that is a ridiculous rule. The fight is 12x 3 minute rounds. No overtime.

I think Kessler will beat Froch again.

I'm not convinced Froch has learned that much since the first fight.

Kessler is a very good fighter, the best Calzaghe faced if you discount old men and past it fighters.

Kessler teaches Eubank a lesson on boxing as well.

azania wrote:To be honest that is a ridiculous rule. The fight is 12x 3 minute rounds. No overtime.

Bute wasnt saved by the bell. He beat the count. Saved by the bell meant if you were knocked out and didnt beat the 10 second count you could be saved by the bell signalling the end of the round.

I think the controversy stems from the fact the ref is slow and delayed in making the count but if you time the length of time Bute is on the floor its only about 8 seconds. So he was up before ten and the bout was then over.

After 22 seconds he's still using the ropes to support him, no question at all he should have been stopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8N4-xN5468

watch it and see, he is out on his feet, and despite the ref stepping in at every oppertunity andrade still tags him and as ghosty said, only the ropes keeping him up.

he couldn't have continued in that state, ego he loses.

eddyfightfan wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8N4-xN5468

watch it and see, he is out on his feet, and despite the ref stepping in at every oppertunity andrade still tags him and as ghosty said, only the ropes keeping him up.

he couldn't have continued in that state, ego he loses.

At what point in that round would you have stopped the fight? Bute was exhausted and hurt but Andrade couldnt floor him until there were 4 seconds left in the fight. By then it was too late. Bute made it up by the count of ten and the fight was over. The alternative was the ref waving Bute off after the final bell had sounded which would have been even more controversial in my opinion.

I'm not particularly convinced that Andrade was robbed of a victory either, really. I can definitely see that side of the argument, but to me a lot of it seems down to personal preference more than anything else.

By the letter of the law, Andrade didn't render Bute unable to continue within the three minute time span of that final round, at least not in the eyes of the referee. Bute went down, but beat the count (and would have beaten it even if the referee hadn't have delayed it, which is the crucial point). Bute went the entire round without being knocked out or stopped.

I don't think there's any way of getting around those two facts. The only reason I can see for arguing that Andrade was robbed (with the benefit of hindsight I'll stress, as I can understand why his corner were upset as the event actually unfolded as they haven't had the chance to review it with precise time on the clock like we have) is if you, as a referee, would have stopped the fight yourself at an earlier stage with Bute still on his feet, like the moment he tottered across the ring back to his own corner before being knocked down, for instance.

However, that's a subjective call, but the objective fact is that Andrade didn't quite manage to stop Bute in those three minutes and, due to how long was left on the clock, still wouldn't have done even if the referee hadn't dithered over his count.

I can see both sides, for sure, but if I had to fall on one I'd be more inclined to say that Andrade wasn't robbed, if we're going on cold, hard facts.

88Chris05 wrote:I'm not particularly convinced that Andrade was robbed of a victory either, really. I can definitely see that side of the argument, but to me a lot of it seems down to personal preference more than anything else.

By the letter of the law, Andrade didn't render Bute unable to continue within the three minute time span of that final round, at least not in the eyes of the referee. Bute went down, but beat the count (and would have beaten it even if the referee hadn't have delayed it, which is the crucial point). Bute went the entire round without being knocked out or stopped.

I don't think there's any way of getting around those two facts. The only reason I can see for arguing that Andrade was robbed (with the benefit of hindsight I'll stress, as I can understand why his corner were upset as the event actually unfolded as they haven't had the chance to review it with precise time on the clock like we have) is if you, as a referee, would have stopped the fight yourself at an earlier stage with Bute still on his feet, like the moment he tottered across the ring back to his own corner before being knocked down, for instance.

However, that's a subjective call, but the objective fact is that Andrade didn't quite manage to stop Bute in those three minutes and, due to how long was left on the clock, still wouldn't have done even if the referee hadn't dithered over his count.

I can see both sides, for sure, but if I had to fall on one I'd be more inclined to say that Andrade wasn't robbed, if we're going on cold, hard facts.

Come on. This is v2 where facts are made up or ignored to get a point across. Not something I ever do mind.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:I'm not particularly convinced that Andrade was robbed of a victory either, really. I can definitely see that side of the argument, but to me a lot of it seems down to personal preference more than anything else.

By the letter of the law, Andrade didn't render Bute unable to continue within the three minute time span of that final round, at least not in the eyes of the referee. Bute went down, but beat the count (and would have beaten it even if the referee hadn't have delayed it, which is the crucial point). Bute went the entire round without being knocked out or stopped.

I don't think there's any way of getting around those two facts. The only reason I can see for arguing that Andrade was robbed (with the benefit of hindsight I'll stress, as I can understand why his corner were upset as the event actually unfolded as they haven't had the chance to review it with precise time on the clock like we have) is if you, as a referee, would have stopped the fight yourself at an earlier stage with Bute still on his feet, like the moment he tottered across the ring back to his own corner before being knocked down, for instance.

However, that's a subjective call, but the objective fact is that Andrade didn't quite manage to stop Bute in those three minutes and, due to how long was left on the clock, still wouldn't have done even if the referee hadn't dithered over his count.

I can see both sides, for sure, but if I had to fall on one I'd be more inclined to say that Andrade wasn't robbed, if we're going on cold, hard facts.

Come on. This is v2 where facts are made up or ignored to get a point across. Not something I ever do mind.

He who smelt it - dealt it

azania wrote:

Are you questioning my integrity (or what's left of it)?

I'm not a medium so can't do seances

I can't do sean either.

azania wrote:I can't do sean either.

Would have been fascinating to watch.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

azania wrote:I can't do sean either.

Would have been fascinating to watch.

always refining methods eh?