Bahrain GP Thread - Contains Practice/Qualifying/Race Spoilers - Sponsored by Bernie's get rich Schemes

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :



Having served up a fascinating battle in 2012 between Sebastian Vettel and both Lotuses, the Formula 1 circus arrives in Bahrain for round four of the Championship.

Mark Webber will be eager to bounce back from a nightmare weekend in China and prove a point to the world, whilst the pressure is on Mexican pair Esteban Gutierrez and Sergio Perez to deliver after disappointing starts to the season.

Kimi Raikkonen came close to victory last year and will be hoping to go one better and claim his second win of 2013 which would take the Iceman to the top of the Drivers' Championship

THE 2013 BAHRAIN GP IN A NUTSHELL
Track: Bahrain International Circuit. Permanent track.
Race start time: 1pm UK time Sunday (3pm local).
Laps: 57.
Track length: 5.412km.
DRS Zones: Two - Pit straight and backstraight, with separate detection points.
Driver steward: Mika Salo
Lap record: Michael Schumacher - 1:30.252 (Ferrari; 2004).
2012 pole: Sebastian Vettel - 1:32.422 (Red Bull).

FORM GUIDE
With Ferrari showing good race pace in China, the signs look good for the Scuderia in Bahrain. Between them, Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa have won five of the eight grands prix to date, although two of Alonso's wins came in a Renault, whilst Ferrari themselves have picked up the Constructors' trophy on four occasions.

2012 result: 1. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus); 3. Romain Grosjean (Lotus); 4. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 5. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes); 6. Paul Di Resta (Force India); 7. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 8. Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 9. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 10. Michael Schumacher (Mercedes).

Last five winners: 2012: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2010: Fernando Alonso (Ferrari); 2009: Jenson Button (Brawn); 2008: Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 2007: Felipe Massa (Ferrari).

TYRE ALLOCATION
A week on from a race dominated by tyre degradation, Pirelli are taking the two hardest compounds in their range to Bahrain this weekend - the white-marked medium compound, which will serve as the option tyre, and the orange-marked hard compound, which will be the prime tyre. Thus, both compounds are a step harder than they were in 2012, with Pirelli having made a late change to the option compound.

The main demands placed on the tyres this weekend will come from traction and braking, whilst the circuit itself will be dirty, given its limited use throughout the year, coupled with sand blowing in from the desert. However, unlike in China, the GP2 Series are on the support card, meaning they will help clean up the circuit and lay down more Pirelli rubber.

These factors coupled with high ambient temperatures mean Pirelli feel "Bahrain is one of the most demanding tracks of the year in terms of longitudinal energy going into the tyres: especially under braking in turns one and 14, and traction in turn 10

Weather Forecast: http://www.enterf1.com/f1-weather/Bahrain.asp

Source: Sky Sports

[CaledonianCraig]

I thought Rosberg pushed things to the limit defending, in particular early on, when he created the chance for Alonso on Vettel. Much better with aggressive driving though.

Very skilful driving by Vettel to get back from 3rd to 1st in those early laps, basically earning him the race. Obviously the driver of the day.

Vettel was superb today. However, not enough overtaking for me as Ferrari's challenge petered out due to mechanical and tyre issues. Sure he was peerless but neither Lotus or Force India have the pace to challenge Adrian Newey-designed Red Bull.

[mystiroakey]

Do you really think that merc has better race pace than maclarean!

tbh i think its just lh making it look so.

gaining places from further down the grid is so much easier to do.

6 places from 12th is no better than 4 from 9th! this should be a given tbh mate- they would both be similar to 8 places from 15th

[dyrewolfe]

I thought Rosberg pushed things to the limit defending, in particular early on, when he created the chance for Alonso on Vettel. Much better with aggressive driving though.

Very skilful driving by Vettel to get back from 3rd to 1st in those early laps, basically earning him the race. Obviously the driver of the day.

Skilful yes, but he'd have got past Rosberg sooner rather than later due to the Mercedes' tyre issues. He also profited from Alonso's DRS failure.

From that point he just strolled away with the race...hardly drive of the day.

[dyrewolfe]

Do you really think that merc has better race pace than maclarean!

tbh i think its just lh making it look so.

gaining places from further down the grid is so much easier to do.

6 places from 12th is no better than 4 from 9th! this should be a given tbh mate- they would both be similar to 8 places from 15th

Hamilton finsihed ahead of Perez and Rosberg finished ahead of Button (despite 4-stopping). Mercedes had the edge on McLaren today, no question.

Could be a different story come Barcelona, once McLaren get their upgrades...of course that also depends on what all the other teams bring.

[mystiroakey]

On the plus side- apart from the great race. Lotus still look awesome.

I just wish they could sort this qualy pace sorted- It would be nice if the lads could have really battle Vettel today

[bogbrush]

I thought Rosberg pushed things to the limit defending, in particular early on, when he created the chance for Alonso on Vettel. Much better with aggressive driving though.

Very skilful driving by Vettel to get back from 3rd to 1st in those early laps, basically earning him the race. Obviously the driver of the day.

Skilful yes, but he'd have got past Rosberg sooner rather than later due to the Mercedes' tyre issues. He also profited from Alonso's DRS failure.

From that point he just strolled away with the race...hardly drive of the day.

He was strolling away from Alonso long before the DRS issue.

Still, am I surprised to see so many gritted teeth through which credit is given to Vettel?

[GSC]

Certainly Mercedes has the edge on a mediocre McLaren car thats just beginning to find its feet. Mercedes aren't as good as RB, Lotus and Ferrari in the race, buts its better than McLaren.

I don't see how you can watch both races and come away thinking Hamilton was better. Perez was constantly scrapping with World Champions and Webber and held his own.

[Critical_mass]

hmmm Sorry as it was such an eventful day and we expect that performance from Vettel and his car.. i wouldnt put Vettel in the top 3 drivers of the day.

I'm surprised nobody credits Vettel for the stunning moves early on, especially on Alonso given he's supposed to be so great.

yeah sorry, my mistake. Got to give him credit for that. Some ballsy moves.

[mystiroakey]

Do you really think that merc has better race pace than maclarean!

tbh i think its just lh making it look so.

gaining places from further down the grid is so much easier to do.

6 places from 12th is no better than 4 from 9th! this should be a given tbh mate- they would both be similar to 8 places from 15th

Hamilton finsihed ahead of Perez and Rosberg finished ahead of Button (despite 4-stopping). Mercedes had the edge on McLaren today, no question.

Could be a different story come Barcelona, once McLaren get their upgrades...of course that also depends on what all the other teams bring.

tbh you may be right- I personally cant split them. And with your example of rosberg finishing above button well lets be honest mate he started on pole!! that needs to be factored in.


I have to admit to everyone though - yeah i love LH. and i only say the last half of the race- So maybe its slightly rose tinted!! but my point about race pace stands

[GSC]

The myth that Vettel can't race really doesn't stand nowadays.

More to his credit that he often doesn't need to since hes so far ahead.

[CaledonianCraig]

Certainly Mercedes has the edge on a mediocre McLaren car thats just beginning to find its feet. Mercedes aren't as good as RB, Lotus and Ferrari in the race, buts its better than McLaren.

I don't see how you can watch both races and come away thinking Hamilton was better. Perez was constantly scrapping with World Champions and Webber and held his own.

Spot on. Look at all of this season's qualifying - an excellent indicative of pace and practice times. Mercedes have consistently outdone McLaren for pace - that is not up for debate. Hamilton AND Rosberg have had the McLaren's number for pace.

[GSC]

i only say the last half of the race

Makes more sense. He was very good in the 2nd half, but not particularly great in the first half.

[mystiroakey]

You cant be this good and consitant and not be good.. Vettel is up there for sure.. no doubts.

[mystiroakey]

Craig- i was talking race pace- not qualy pace.

its not something that is allways similar.

Look at lotus for example- the other way

[Critical_mass]

Certainly Mercedes has the edge on a mediocre McLaren car thats just beginning to find its feet. Mercedes aren't as good as RB, Lotus and Ferrari in the race, buts its better than McLaren.

I don't see how you can watch both races and come away thinking Hamilton was better. Perez was constantly scrapping with World Champions and Webber and held his own.

WHAT!!!? pffff

Perez did excellent today but i feel the Mclaren wasnt as bad today as it has been in the previous races. Sure Perez was fighting with button alot and came out on top. But Lewis came back from a poor start and losing time, to then gain more time and pass a hard ot pass webber to get 5th. For me that does need some recognition.

Driver performance i couldnt say one was better than the other as the circumstances differed. IF i did have to pick one id say Perez based on his previous performances since joining Mclaren. Thats not to say Lewis didnt do good today, cos i think the did, but he's had better races this season.

[dyrewolfe]

Certainly Mercedes has the edge on a mediocre McLaren car thats just beginning to find its feet. Mercedes aren't as good as RB, Lotus and Ferrari in the race, buts its better than McLaren.

I don't see how you can watch both races and come away thinking Hamilton was better. Perez was constantly scrapping with World Champions and Webber and held his own.

Don't recall anyone saying Hamilton was better...just that both he and Perez deserve praise for some great driving today. In the conditions today, I'd say the Mercedes was marginally the better car.

For that matter Grosjean deserves some plaudits for making the podium, from where he started.

[CaledonianCraig]

Don't get me wrong mysti I do think Hamilton pulled it around and turned a disappointing start into a solid finish so he can be happy with that. However, half a race of very good driving shouldn't get him in the reckoning for driver of the race above others in my opinion. Perez impressed me more with his tenacity, his refusing to yield to more senior drivers and world champions in a car that isn't all that competitive - that is what impressed me and don't forget he started from 12th on the grid.

[dyrewolfe]

Certainly Mercedes has the edge on a mediocre McLaren car thats just beginning to find its feet. Mercedes aren't as good as RB, Lotus and Ferrari in the race, buts its better than McLaren.

I don't see how you can watch both races and come away thinking Hamilton was better. Perez was constantly scrapping with World Champions and Webber and held his own.

Spot on. Look at all of this season's qualifying - an excellent indicative of pace and practice times. Mercedes have consistently outdone McLaren for pace - that is not up for debate. Hamilton AND Rosberg have had the McLaren's number for pace.

Actually qualifying is very POOR indicator of overall performance.

Yes, the Mercedes has great 1-2 lap qualifying pace...hence why they have qualified well so consistently and ahead of McLaren.

However, the car eats its tyres, so its race performance drops drastically after a few laps, bringing it more on a par with the McLaren. Why do you think Rosberg ended up going backwards, after starting on pole?

[mystiroakey]

I admit to only seeing the second half bud..

Just happy to see good racing at the end.. I got a bit excited

[Critical_mass]

This was my point before, there's too many to choose from.

[Bull]

6th for Perez in McLaren is a better result than 5th for Hamilton in a Mercedes?

Perez gained 6 places compared to Hamiltons 4?

Perez was involved in scraps all day and held his own against the likes of Button, Alonso and Webber?

Take off the rose tinted glasses mate, Hamilton was good but Perez was better for me.

this

[bogbrush]

This was my point before, there's too many to choose from.

It was a very exciting race for sure, from 2nd down into the teens it was all happening.

We don't need plasticine tyres to make a race; the track is paramount.

[monty junior]

Vettel was in a different league today, he's really becoming the finished article, his overtaking is now superb and he has always had everything else.

He was my DOD, gutted for Paul, lost a cheeky 40 quid with that late pass too still a very good finish when you see all the much bigger teams he finished ahead of. I think on a 3 stopper though may have been the way to go.

Quite a few good drives today , some great racing between the Mclarens, Grosjean etc..

[Critical_mass]

This was my point before, there's too many to choose from.

It was a very exciting race for sure, from 2nd down into the teens it was all happening.

We don't need plasticine tyres to make a race; the track is paramount.

The tyres we ridiculous today, first delamination on Lewis's car then the same on Massa's and what about Massa's second puncture where you saw it just fall apart! Shocking!

Pirelli nneed to sort it out.

[bogbrush]

Indeed, but haven't they been told to do this?

I understand its getting tightened up for Barcelona. Hope so.

[Gerry SA]

Excellent to see Checo regain his confidence today. A very good drive. Showed plenty of Latino spirit!

Also enjoyed the return to form of Romain Grosjean, along with Checo and Hulk - he's a very talented young driver.

[lorus59]

I can't help but think there is a bit of jingoism here concerning British drivers. If one looks at it impartially, all of these drivers are exceptional. I personally would put Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel as the top 3 and if I was really pushed, I'd choose Alonso. Until all drivers are in the exact same car with the exact same strategy, we will never know who is the best. It is all subjective.

[mystiroakey]

I would have to say alonso just pips as the overall.

LH i would say just pips in overtaking and dirty air

Vettel best in clean air

the driver that i am gutted about is Kubica- because i thought he had it all.


Grojean for me is really good in dirty air and a good aggresive driver- but he needs to tone it down big time.

And for one off speed raikanham has to also be mentioned

[mystiroakey]

I do think its great that lotus has these two drivers tbh..

They really are a team to reakon with . And I love that considering lotus is a team i love from the past. Two very good drivers who are also massive characters to boot on and off the track

[CaledonianCraig]

Hardly, the same Lotus team of the past. More just a team reviving the Lotus name as there is no other connection to Lotus in my opinion.

[mystiroakey]

I understand that. However the team is still british based and it uses the name- so a bit of selective memory is utilsed for me..

And its a very exiting team- that i reakon has the brand name to remain strong for the future

[CaledonianCraig]

Yes I do see where you are coming from as it does leave me with a soft spot for them. It would be great if, somehow they could strengthen ties with Lotus, who are still an operating company.

[mystiroakey]

I have to admit that i dont know to much about lotus's motorsport teams in recent years(if they have even had any others)- however its retail production is owned by proton now so i am not sure how much of the original lotus is still about..

[CaledonianCraig]

Well I do know their base factory in Norfolk is still active and producing Lotus sports cars. I suppose all of the motorsport/F1 branch has long since been disbanded as it was around 20 years ago that the original Lotus F1 team folded.

[Guest]

Thought it was a very good race in terms of actual racing and overtaking, however, we were robbed of an actual fight for the race win, firstly by Raikkonen's poor qualifying and secondly Alonso's DRS failure. It was an absolute gift for Vettel yesterday and people stating Vettel was in a 'different league' and the 'complete package' are just laughable. Also having to not fight during the race, is of course, going to lead you to be able to preserve your tyres longer because your in clean air, whereas other's are not. I'm a Hamilton fan and on an British forum, I am surprised by the lack of praise for Hamilton's superb drive. The Mercedes was an embarrassment and Hamilton and Rosberg were sitting ducks, as expected, however, for Hamilton to keep to strategy and be able to go from 11th to 5th on a car with horrendous rear tyre's and to beat Webber at the end was quite frankly brilliant and completely unexpected when you see how bad the situation was for Mercedes half way through the race. Was Hamilton driver of the day, no, but it was a drive which showcased his ability and the reason he's paid more money than Rosberg because he simply delivers consistantly.

The McLaren battle was fascinating and seeing Button rushing to the radio to calm Sergio down, in attempt to get Whitmarsh to tell him to back off, was embarrasing really. Button being outperformed by Sergio is not what JB wants people to see and it could now be a case of Sergio settling into the team and car and putting JB under real pressure. Of course, with Carlos Slim in attendance, Sergio was going to put on a show and he delivered which was great to see. Raikkonen & Grosjean showed that the Lotus is again the top dog of a car in terms of tyre preservation, however unless they improve qualifying then they will be fighting a losing battle to Vettel.

Great race, unfortunate that Vettel strolled to a win and extended his lead in the WDC without breaking sweat. Good drive from Di Resta. As for Mercedes, I just can't see them challenging for the title with their issues. Monaco could be the place where they could target a realistic win because of their fantastic qualifying speed and the lack of overtaking opportunities.

Bring on Barcelona and looking forward to the McLaren updated package.

[dyrewolfe]

Not a bad summary, although I would say Button was within his rights to tell the team Perez was banging wheels and trying to embed bits of his front wing into his rear tyres.

Good, hard racing is one thing but Perez could easily have ended up taking both McLarens out of the race. I wonder what all the Button-bashers would be saying if that had happened?

Like it or not, F1 is a team sport with many other considerations besides individuals' finishing positions and one of the main cardinal rules being: "Thou shalt not take off thy team mate".

Other than that Sergio had a great race and I was happy to see him get a top 6 finish. Despite being a Button fan, I'm also a McLaren fan and want to see the team do well.

I also wouldn't say the Mercedes is embarrassing. It obviously has good straight-line speed and can perform well on some circuits. Bahrain is known for being heavy on rear tyres and coupled with the Mercedes higher rear tyre wear, it was a double whammy that was always going to leave them struggling. If they can tweak the suspension / aero set-up to reduce this problem, they could have a great car on their hands.

Kimi and Romain probably deserve more props than they're getting, although the (Renault) Lotus is undoubtedly a good car, as does Di Resta, for equalling his best ever finish. He seemed to think the Force India was a good package, so I hope we see him score at least one podium this season.

[SteveG]

Great race from start to finish. Will never be a lover of these tyres but do concede that it can sometimes add spice to tracks that in the past have been a bit of a snoozefest.

Stand out drivers for me were Perez and Groj. Vettel was also impressive early on but once up the road obviously had a quieter race. And a nod to Hamilton and Alonso who showed their champions pedigree in that they will always salvage something from whatever the wreckage.

As for Mercedes: seems that the high track tempertures brutally exposed their inherrent tyre weakness. As the temperature dropped the car got quicker. The upside is their biggest achilles heel race is now behind them and both drivers, in particular Hamilton managed to bag precious points. The downside is that Red Bull don't seem to have much of a tyre problem in warmer climes - clean air didnt mean didly squat in Oz as Vettel was quickly reeled in but no such problems in the dessert. The key to this season not becoming another Red Bull fest is that they don't quite have the one lap advantage on Saturdays that they used to enjoy and Vettel won't always make short work of the pole sitter as he did Rosberg in this instance.

Vettel is definately building up a head of steam but as F1 decends on Europe where Hamilton should re-discover his race pace and Alonso gets his flap back and Kimi can buy a drink it's all still to play for.

[monty junior]

Thought it was a very good race in terms of actual racing and overtaking, however, we were robbed of an actual fight for the race win, firstly by Raikkonen's poor qualifying and secondly Alonso's DRS failure. It was an absolute gift for Vettel yesterday and people stating Vettel was in a 'different league' and the 'complete package' are just laughable. Also having to not fight during the race, is of course, going to lead you to be able to preserve your tyres longer because your in clean air, whereas other's are not. I'm a Hamilton fan and on an British forum, I am surprised by the lack of praise for Hamilton's superb drive. The Mercedes was an embarrassment and Hamilton and Rosberg were sitting ducks, as expected, however, for Hamilton to keep to strategy and be able to go from 11th to 5th on a car with horrendous rear tyre's and to beat Webber at the end was quite frankly brilliant and completely unexpected when you see how bad the situation was for Mercedes half way through the race. Was Hamilton driver of the day, no, but it was a drive which showcased his ability and the reason he's paid more money than Rosberg because he simply delivers consistantly.

Frankly that's completely Kimi/Lotus's fault, i don't think it would have mattered, Vettel was way to quick and was just pacing himself after those brilliant first few laps. The only person who could have challenged was Alonso but even then that's just presuming, Vettel is always very good in Bahrain. Hamilton drove a good second half of the race but don't pretend like it was some act of god that he got fifth, his car obviously wasn't too bad on the tyres. Fair enough with the British forum but Di Resta in a Force India finished the highest of the lot and get's considerably less talked about on his performance.

[Guest]

I agree that the consistantly poor qualifying is Lotus/Kimi's fault and will probably be the sole reason come November time that the WDC will be once again be going to either Vettel or Alonso. For Kimi, he just can't afford to be starting lower than the first two or three rows if he is to realistically challenge drivers of Alonso & Vettel.

I was not making out Hamilton's drive was some kind of 'act of god', he wasn't even my driver of the day, but in terms of the situation of going down to 11th and facing severe rear tyre issues, it was quite a superb drive, especially when his teammate started pole and finished ninth. Hamilton won't get the praise because for the majority of the race he was not on view because of the action elsewhere, however he stuck to the strategy, preserved his tyres and then showed his speed and quality. To achieve ten points was a great points haul, which let's face it, was not looking very likely. To be sitting in third in the WDC, just 27 points off Vettel is some achievement and deserves recognition, especially as he's our only British representation actually involved in the Championship hunt.

I also am quite interested to see what happens in the battle between Caterham & Marussia. According to many people, Caterham's updated package has found over half a second with Pic in Bahrain and there is apparently more to come for Barcelona, hence why they wanted Heikki to test and analyse the new parts.

[SteveG]

Does Caterham have KERS? Marussia introduced theirs this season but not sure about Caterham - makes a huge difference. Ask Webber .

[Critical_mass]

Does Caterham have KERS? Marussia introduced theirs this season but not sure about Caterham - makes a huge difference. Ask Webber .

They had it last season, dont see why they wouldnt have it this season?

[Guest]

I'm not sure if Caterham have KERS this year but it will be interesting to see how they develop throughout the European phase.

The interesting thing with KERS in 2014 is that the power capacity of the KERS units will increase from 60 kilowatts (80 bhp) to 120 kilowatts (160 bhp) that last for more than 25 seconds. Also the unit will actually be fully integrated, therefore if the KERS fails, like Webber continues to experience in F1, then he would be out of qualifying or the race there and then. Huge importance on KERS technology for team's next year and it's reliability.

[Fernando]

In some good news Robert Kubica has been in the Mercedes simulator the last few weeks.

If can get back to F1 fitness id worry if i were Nico

[GSC]

That's the real reason why Webbers off

[CaledonianCraig]

In some good news Robert Kubica has been in the Mercedes simulator the last few weeks.

If can get back to F1 fitness id worry if i were Nico

Who knows? If Kimi is daft enough to go to Red Bull to be Seb's lackey then a spot may become available at the remnant's of his old team - Lotus (formerly Renault).

[GSC]

I can't see Kimi going to be Vettels #2 when he's #1 in a car that can win races personally.

Good to see Kubica back, rated him

[Critical_mass]

I can't see Kimi going to be Vettels #2 when he's #1 in a car that can win races personally.

Good to see Kubica back, rated him

Me either, Kimi will stay at Lotus imo.

Although Kubica wasnt a bad driver by any means, i dont think he was as brilliant as people seem to make out - maybe we need to see more of him. But i cant honestly see him coming back into F1.

[monty junior]

Agreed Cm, he was very good at times but was still 50/50 pretty much over his 3 seasons pretty much with Heidfeld. Thought he was superb in 2010 with Renault (maybe coming in to his prime?!), i don't know if he was the messiah in waiting he's made out to be.

[Critical_mass]

Agreed Cm, he was very good at times but was still 50/50 pretty much over his 3 seasons pretty much with Heidfeld. Thought he was superb in 2010 with Renault (maybe coming in to his prime?!), i don't know if he was the messiah in waiting he's made out to be.

yeah thats prob a good analysis of it. Heidfeld has never been that good, as so so driver and he beat Kubica.. Like you say, maybe he gelled better with the Renault car and was coming into his prime. Unfortunately not long after he had the accident - and for me, its all over now.

Even if he was in the Merc simulator and did well, its still going to be a year or 2 before he's back in a car in a race situation, thats providing a) there's a seat for him and b) a team wants him. Maybe he could help one of the lower teams to develop... may be not ideal for him, buts its an option.

[Fernando]

After the complaining from teams about tyres Pirelli have acted by doing pretty much nothing except change the operating window on the hard tyre

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