Where would Wales A finish in the Six Nations table?

Quite a remarkable turnaround that just a decade ago our strongest XV could lose to England and Ireland by 50.

Now we have depth in certain positions that was once a dream.

Looking at certain players who've been unlucky to miss out, I think a 2nd string Wales side would be quite competitive.

15. James Hook
14. Lee Byrne
13. Scott Williams
12. Gavin Henson
11. Liam Williams
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Lloyd Williams

8. Ryan Jones
7. Aaron Shingler
6. Dan Lydiate
5. Luke Charteris
4. Bradley Davies
3. Craig Mitchell
2. Ken Owens
1. Paul James

They would win the slam with ease.

Shame we have such a clueless spiteful bunch in charge who don't have a clue have to hold onto and nurture OUR players.

the first team need a 23 man squad. So you need to remover The entire front row, two of the other five forwards, hook, your scrum half and one otehr player the team would be weaker. Add in injuries which always happehn and few of those players would be able to feature.

Now, also add in that many blamed injuries for the team losing to Ireland - strength in depth may not be as good as you think.

Until the WRU can be arsed to run an "A" side we will never know.


Edited Bit:

Ah I see, you are not talking about the "A2 team playing as well, but instead. That team you have stated would still have lost to Ireland, probably not have managed to win the tight game you had in Paris and who knows what would have happened in the last game with less to play for.

LondonTiger wrote:the first team need a 23 man squad. So you need to remover The entire front row, two of the other five forwards, hook, your scrum half and one otehr player the team would be weaker. Add in injuries which always happehn and few of those players would be able to feature.

Now, also add in that many blamed injuries for the team losing to Ireland - strength in depth may not be as good as you think.

Until the WRU can be arsed to run an "A" side we will never know.

Three reasons Ireland won that match:

BOD magic
Dan Biggar charge down
Wales came into the game complacent

They would win tournament with maybe a slam.

15- Byrne
14- Liam Williams
13- Garin Evans
12- Henson
11- Brew
10- Hook
9- Webb
8- Pretorius
7- Navidi
6- Ryan Jones
5- Chartris
4- Bradley Davies
3- Cai Griffiths
2- Mathew Rees
1- Bevinton

You illustrate a valuable and rewarding point that Wales are not struggling for depth anywhere near as badly as we were a decade ago.

I am still not convinced that an A team is the best way to build on our depth though.

I think we gain more from our current under 20s set up. Add to that the fact that only a couple of countries still use the A Side as a concept is it a necessary expense?

Probably better to see the same budget go in to the Premiership clubs in Wales.

I think a second team of Wales A would be both a good and bad idea.
I think the possibilty of a second division of nations would be great. Teams like the irish wulfhounds, england saxons and Wales A joint with full international teams like Romania and Georgia. It would help the development of teams like Georgia and Romainia yet also bring through young talented players for england, Ireland and wales (but not taking players from the U20's teams).
However it would mean taking away more players from their regions and i higher count of injuries for each region.
But i do like the idea and even though it could be a gamble i think it might just pay off. And the only reason it stopped before was because we didnt have enough strength in depth which we have more than enough now.
However i feel the team you have picked wouldn't be the team. Wales need 23 players in their squad, so if the Wales A played the same weekend as Wales they would not be able to play craig mitchell, paul james, Bradley davies, Ryan Jones, rhys priestland, ken owens, scott willaims and dan lydiate who when fit is definitely a starting player.All of these players when fit are arguably in the 23.
This team would be more likely:
1. Ryan Bevington
2. Matthew Rees
3. Samson Lee/scott andrews
4. Andrew Coombs
5. Luke Charteris or becuase he plays abroad now a younger player coming through like jake ball
6.Chris Patterson/Aarron Shingler
7. Josh Navidi
8. Andreious Pretorious or i woould rather Morgan Allen who is a great player coming through at ospreys (very strong ball carrier).

9. Lloyd Williams/Tavis Knoyle (depends who is in the 23)
10.Rhys Patchell (would be the only exception form the U2O's team for me)
11.Hano Dirkson
12.Adam Warren or Ashley (beck if not in the 23)
13.Andrew Bishop
14.Eli Walker
15.Liam Willaims

I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

I think Wales are finally at the stage that we could play any top 3 players in their position and still be a strong team that can compete and win six nations or atleast competing to a strong standed
Gethin jenkins
Owens
Jones
AWJ
Evans
Lydiate
Warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Biggar
North
Roberts
JD2
Cuthbert
Halfpenny


Team 2

Paul James
Hibbard
Mitchell
Combs
Chartris
Jothan Thomas
Tipric
Ryan Jones
Lloyd Williams
Pristland
Brew
beck
Scott Williams
walker
byrne

Team 3

bevinton
Rees
Andrews
Davies
kohn
king
Navidi
Pretorius
Webb
Hook
Robinson
Henson
Bishop
O.williams
Liam williams

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Three reasons Ireland won that match:

BOD magic
Dan Biggar charge down
Wales came into the game complacent

Four reasons:

Wales were beaten.

Most countries with a decent playing base could name a side made up predominantly of people not featuring for the first team and claim this to be fair. Whether or not these talented players would come together to form a good team we can really have no idea.

1.Corbisiero
2.Webber
3.Wilson
4.Slater
5.Garvey
6.Croft (c)
7.Kvesic
8.Vunipola

9.Wigglesworth
10.Burns

11.May
12.Twelvetrees
13.Lowe or Tomkins - I'd consider the two of them better than Joseph at current
14.Wade
15.Foden

16.Lindsay 17.Sheridan 18.Thomas 19.Attwood 20.Fraser 21.Simpson 22.Ford 23.

That's is an England side excluding players who featured frequently during the 6N. I've included Croft as prior to Morgan's injury I expect Lancaster would have had him competing with Haskell for the bench spot with Wood at 6. Similarly Twelvetrees played but not as first choice when Barritt/Tuilagi were fit. Wilson was consistently on the bench but saw little game time.

That side would have been competitive if the players came to together as we're envisaging that the Welsh A side would - in reality I don't think we can really know how they would have played together or how they would have fared.

Problem being a lot of that team would actually be on bench for the first team.

Also:

Hook is not a XV Byrne is so why pick him on the wing

Scotland could have:

1. Welsh
2. MacArthur
3. Low
4. Kellock
5. Gilchrist
6. Harley
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Cusiter
10. Jackson
11. Brown
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Tonks

bedfordwelsh wrote:Problem being a lot of that team would actually be on bench for the first team.

Also:

Hook is not a XV Byrne is so why pick him on the wing

1) When Byrne has been picked he has scored loads of tries from a wingers position. He's an excellent finisher and support runner.
2) Hook is a better 15 than he is a wing and has played 15 internationally.
3) Hook is too good to leave out.

There is no depth in Welsh rugby. We've seen that over recent years. The starting 15 are good, but they struggle just to name a decent bench. The Welsh A team would be decimated.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Problem being a lot of that team would actually be on bench for the first team.

Also:

Hook is not a XV Byrne is so why pick him on the wing

1) When Byrne has been picked he has scored loads of tries from a wingers position. He's an excellent finisher and support runner.
2) Hook is a better 15 than he is a wing and has played 15 internationally.
3) Hook is too good to leave out.

From the side you picked in the OP I'd probably put 12.Williams 13.Hook with Byrne at FB then bring a young lad such as Robinson in on the wing. Henson hasn't shown enough this season to keep a contract with London Welsh let alone be discussed for an Int call up.

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

GloriousEmpire wrote:There is no depth in Welsh rugby. We've seen that over recent years. The starting 15 are good, but they struggle just to name a decent bench. The Welsh A team would be decimated.

GE,

I think that was the case for many a season but I do think we can now name a decent 23 man squad which would have the likes of either :

James, Gill and Mitchell providing prop cover
Coombes and Davies providing 2nd row cover
R Jones, Shingler, Tipuric providing back row cover

Half back cover is young I admit but then we still have the likes of Sc Williams, Hook, Byrne, Li Williams who could provide backs cover.

Also for me if we had an A Side then it shouldn't be packed with International players more packed with up and coming youngsters with a few old heads sprinkled in for experience.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

Let's see Wales beat some SH opposition before we go that far!

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

...but England where pretty consistent during that time. Wales have had one good game (England) in the past 13. I'll wait until next years 6 nations before handing out the plaudits.

Breadvan wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

...but England where pretty consistent during that time. Wales have had one good game (England) in the past 13. I'll wait until next years 6 nations before handing out the plaudits.

Now that is what i call honesty. Well said their breadvan. well said.

I know it is a slow news day, but is the OP seriously suggesting that a Wales A team will be able to win the Six Nations, never mind a slam?

Biltong wrote:I know it is a slow news day, but is the OP seriously suggesting that a Wales A team will be able to win the Six Nations, never mind a slam?

Yup, a win over England does strange things to the Welsh psyche.

Yeh Bilt....the op is the man with a thousand usernames!

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

Biltong wrote:I know it is a slow news day, but is the OP seriously suggesting that a Wales A team will be able to win the Six Nations, never mind a slam?

Yup, a win over England does strange things to the Welsh psyche.

hmmm, OK.

Biltong wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

Biltong wrote:I know it is a slow news day, but is the OP seriously suggesting that a Wales A team will be able to win the Six Nations, never mind a slam?

Yup, a win over England does strange things to the Welsh psyche.

hmmm, OK.

Yeah, apparently the "Welsh" Lions are going to beat the Aussies at the 8th time of trying. Probably made up of 8th string Welsh players because they're so good now.

Cyril - the bitter ex-Welshman. Can't wait for the film!

Griff wrote:Cyril - the bitter ex-Welshman. Can't wait for the film!

Ex-Welsh? How very dare you! Living in Wales doesn't make me Welsh. Unless North, Cuthbert, Davies etc are English...

What happened in Wales Cyril??? Come on, let it all out! That's the key to you and your gripes, I reckon. Were you kicked out of the bowls club and told never to come back???

Cyril used to love Wales "the country not the team" but one night he went out for a quite drink and fell in love, i heard the story went something like this...................

Cyril met her in a club down in old Soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola
C-o-l-a cola
She walked up to him and she asked him to dance
He asked her her name and in a dark brown voice she said Lola
L-o-l-a Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

Well Cyril's not the worlds most physical guy
But when she squeezed him tight she nearly broke his spine
Oh his Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well he's not dumb but he couldn't understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh Cyril's Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

Well they drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked him up and sat him on her knee
And said dear boy wont you come home with me
Well Cyril's not the worlds most passionate guy
But when he looked in her eyes well he almost fell for his Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

He pushed her away
He walked to the door
He fell to the floor
He got down on his knees
Then he looked at her and she at him

Well that's the way that He want it to stay
And He always want it to be that way for his Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

Well he left home just a week before
And Ihe never ever kissed a woman before
But Lola smiled and took him by the hand
And said dear boy I'm gonna make you a man

Well Cyril's not the worlds most masculine man
But he now what he is and he's glad he's a man
And so is Lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola....................................



He never got over that night and walks like John Wayne ever since.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:the first team need a 23 man squad. So you need to remover The entire front row, two of the other five forwards, hook, your scrum half and one otehr player the team would be weaker. Add in injuries which always happehn and few of those players would be able to feature.

Now, also add in that many blamed injuries for the team losing to Ireland - strength in depth may not be as good as you think.

Until the WRU can be arsed to run an "A" side we will never know.

Three reasons Ireland won that match:

BOD magic
Dan Biggar charge down
Wales came into the game complacent

Wales came into the game complacent on the back of 7 losses?

robbo277 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:the first team need a 23 man squad. So you need to remover The entire front row, two of the other five forwards, hook, your scrum half and one otehr player the team would be weaker. Add in injuries which always happehn and few of those players would be able to feature.

Now, also add in that many blamed injuries for the team losing to Ireland - strength in depth may not be as good as you think.

Until the WRU can be arsed to run an "A" side we will never know.

Three reasons Ireland won that match:

BOD magic
Dan Biggar charge down
Wales came into the game complacent

Wales came into the game complacent on the back of 7 losses?

Robbo how is the VHS player doing? be the vids of 2003 are looking fuzzy now.

I think what Wales did in the Six Nations after the France game was absolutely phenomenal. It took a scrappy, dogged win to get them their confidence back, but they didn't look like losing to Italy or Scotland and then completely demolished England.

But they came into the tournament low on confidence and were absolutely routed in the first half against Ireland. How anyone can say they were complacent is beyond me.

I have no idea what 2003 has to do with anything.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

...but England where pretty consistent during that time. Wales have had one good game (England) in the past 13. I'll wait until next years 6 nations before handing out the plaudits.

Now that is what i call honesty. Well said their breadvan. well said.

6Ns champions (and 30-3)

I wonder if that scoreline would be shown so much if it was 9-7.

Two championships in a row is consistency.

Not sure I would agree that two is consistent, but in 6N terms it is a high achievement.
Rugby fans can be so fickle, can't they. One week they are pulling their team and their coach apart, the next they are lauding them as world beaters who, in theory, have an A team who could take the 6N slam, even though their current team failed to do so...
We can all be a bit fickle at times, methinks, although I do believe this thread has to be a wind-up

Dontheman wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:I think we can finally put the 'arrogant England' term to bed now. Although there is some strength in depth compared to past years.

Biggest compliment ever.

I will happily have Wales or their fans called arrogant. Shows signs of progress and success.

We said nearly all the England players of 1997-2003 were arrogant but it was secretly jealousy, envy and admiration of how good they were

...but England where pretty consistent during that time. Wales have had one good game (England) in the past 13. I'll wait until next years 6 nations before handing out the plaudits.

Now that is what i call honesty. Well said their breadvan. well said.

6Ns champions (and 30-3)

We can all quote old scorelines..

Yawn

30-3

30-3 makes England look better than they are.

The way Wales played they should have won by more.

Shaun Edwards will be very disappointed at leaking 3 points.

Going back to the OP and although I agree some tweaking could/should be done to that side, the only way in answering the OP question, assuming it means that A side playing in the 6 Nations as is, making it a 7 Nations, is to predict how they would have faired against each of the teams...

Wales A v Ireland - Think Ireland would have just got the better of them (15 - 22)
France v Wales A - I think Mumbles Jnrs would have beaten France this year so a Wales A win (9 - 15)
Italy v Wales A - Big challenge, but a Welsh win (18 - 23)
Scotland v Wales A - Welsh win (12 - 18)
Wales A v England - Now that would have been a game... Dont think they would have done as well as the first XV, but no problem in beating England, so Wales win by only 26 points (3 - 29).

Would this have won them the 6 7 Nations...

Well they would have then had to play the Wales 1st XV, and I think they would have lost by 7-10 points to them.

So to answer the OP... I think the Wales A side would have come 2nd.

I thought, technically speaking, that the Wales A side is their U20 team. That team did OK in the U20 6N but was dismantled in their last game.

I would depend on who reffed.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:30-3 makes England look better than they are.

The way Wales played they should have won by more.

Shaun Edwards will be very disappointed at leaking 3 points.

On the day. I still think there's not much between the teams.

I am just wondering if this is a serious post or just a silly joke

The Welsh first team were not really all that great this year, and stuttered to the final game (where they then played well)

If it is serious, then get a grip

If not then, well played sir, a very funny wind up

Breadvan wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:30-3 makes England look better than they are.

The way Wales played they should have won by more.

Shaun Edwards will be very disappointed at leaking 3 points.

On the day. I still think there's not much between the teams.

Just the 27 points.

I think that this is completely ridiculous, the only team that Wales comprehensively beat was England who bottled it under pressure and the incredible atmosphere, to suggest that Wales second team could beat any other side is quite frankly absurd and insulting. Wales have a very good squad but are they that good that they can put out two full teams that can beat Scotland and Italy? No, Nowhere near

agreed.

I think the OP is seeking for more compliments.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:30-3 makes England look better than they are.

The way Wales played they should have won by more.

Shaun Edwards will be very disappointed at leaking 3 points.

On the day. I still think there's not much between the teams.

Just the 27 points.