Jeff: The importance of clubs owning their own grounds

Poorfour wrote:I think rugby has learned the lessons, at least in England. Hence the salary cap and other measures that level the playing field for clubs.

greytiger wrote:

Poorfour wrote:I think rugby has learned the lessons, at least in England. Hence the salary cap and other measures that level the playing field for clubs.

Not at Goldington Rd, Bedford it hasn't mate.

LondonTiger wrote:

greytiger wrote:

Poorfour wrote:I think rugby has learned the lessons, at least in England. Hence the salary cap and other measures that level the playing field for clubs.

Not at Goldington Rd, Bedford it hasn't mate.

Frank Warren almost killed Bedford Rugby - and it will be some time before anyone involved with the club would countenance spending the wages needed to be competitive in the Premiership (watch me get immediately proven wrong should they win the play-offs perhaps).

As to developing Goldington Rd, well there is no room to do so on the land they currently own without major construction. The only real stand directly abuts Goldington Rd, the main road heading east out of the centre of town. East and west of the ground they are right up against houses. So the only option would be to knock down the club house and changing rooms to the north of the ground, rotate the pitch and lose the training/second team pitch. This would be seriously expensive (probably more than the £24m Sarries are rumoured to have spent - and way in excess of the £1m funding given to help Wuss) and may well struggle to get planning permission.

Irish Londoner wrote:Of course ground ownership would be beneficial to teams rather than having to groundshare with football teams, but the start-up costs combined with the NIMBY approach of a lot of residents to any form of development within five miles of their home and local council planning departments especially in the south make it very difficult.
Saracens in the ealry days of professionalism were set to move to a non-League ground in Enfield and had big plans to develop the stadium. The local council refused it on the basis of objections from dog walkers as a small part of a local park would have to be used to increase the footprint of the stadium. Although it is rumoured that the then Labour council were also happy to stick it to the "rugby posh boys" and their pushy South African chairman.
End result - Saracens ended up spending years at Watford and Enfield lost the income of several thousand hungry and thirsty rugby fans 15 times a year.

greytiger wrote:

I have no idea about the internal finances nor property covenants at Bedford, LT, but the site must be valuable considering its central town location.

Just thinking aloud and on the hoof...

greytiger wrote:Looking at the current Premiership and Championship tables it seems that ground ownership is the key to long-term success.

andyi wrote:

greytiger wrote:Looking at the current Premiership and Championship tables it seems that ground ownership is the key to long-term success.

Of the 4 teams who qualified for the Championship playoffs, Bedford are the only club who own their own ground and they can't get promoted as they don't meet the MSC (sorry cowpat PRL cartel rules which dont stand up in court) and the chairman/owner doesn't want to bankrupt the club trying!

aitchw wrote:
Don't know what the situation with Falcons is but Carnegie are in partnership with the Rhinos as Leeds Rugby Ltd and Headingley Carnegie Stadium is theirs and doesn't ground share with anyone else. Don't know of any criteria that we don't meet better than most AP sides, just need a team that can compete.

Big wrote:

greytiger wrote:

I have no idea about the internal finances nor property covenants at Bedford, LT, but the site must be valuable considering its central town location.

Just thinking aloud and on the hoof...

Completely agree actually, though again i don't know whether they own/lease the ground and what if any covenants there are. It wouldn't be that extraordinary if they sold off the site for housing and bought a cheaper and easier to develop site on the edge of town. The only danger doing that is that you don't want to lose decent public transport links, and being an easy walk for the home fans.

With my civil engineering hat on, I'd suggest that they could reasonably redevelop the ground and just look to replace the training ground with an out of town site. You could probably fit in a big stand down one side and temporary stands at the ends if you wanted the extra capacity. Certainly more than the £1m Wuss got, but not necessarily more than Sarries are spending and arguably unless there are constraints we are unaware of I'd expect it to be less. It would need to be bigger to get 15k in, but realistically I don't think they'd need to do that straight up, just leave space and scope for it in the future - and it's likely there would be fewer constraints as the ground wouldn't have the same demands on use. Sarries will be/are paying a lot for the artificial surfacing and stands that can be easily removed from the running track because their ground has protected dual use with the athletics club. From experience is also a premium on any work being done in London due to access, living/lodging costs for workers, etc.

aitchw wrote:

andyi wrote:

greytiger wrote:Looking at the current Premiership and Championship tables it seems that ground ownership is the key to long-term success.

Of the 4 teams who qualified for the Championship playoffs, Bedford are the only club who own their own ground and they can't get promoted as they don't meet the MSC (sorry cowpat PRL cartel rules which dont stand up in court) and the chairman/owner doesn't want to bankrupt the club trying!

Don't know what the situation with Falcons is but Carnegie are in partnership with the Rhinos as Leeds Rugby Ltd and Headingley Carnegie Stadium is theirs and doesn't ground share with anyone else. Don't know of any criteria that we don't meet better than most AP sides, just need a team that can compete.

Not at Goldington Rd, Bedford it hasn't mate..

aitchw wrote:AFAIK Caddick is still one of 3 shareholders in the company along with Hetherington plus 1 other. It became the first dual code club anywhere. Not sure how it works from a real estate point of view but the 'common' stand has shared facilities under it which include The Watering Hole bar. Capacity is around 21,000. Headingley is a pretty good facility and the strong links with Leeds Met University add a lot to the the club.