WILKO GET ON THAT PLANE

Maybe next time Faz

Wilko
Biggar

Hook utility centre.

Sexton is the best 10 available by a long way - Wilko is too old, too slow and unavailable anyway. we will need to score tries to beat Aus, we have some very potent backs, we need a 10 who can release them. Wilko is not the man to do this.

Ahead of him:
Sexton by miles.
Flood
Biggar
Laidlaw
Farrell ( just)
Preistland
Jackson
Madigan

How many of these threads will there be?

Slightly changed topic and then a list of your players.

I still think Wilko could go, doubt he would be first choice but we might need someone to close games out.

Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.

[quote="majesticimperialman"]Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

samuraidragon wrote:

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

A few other 10s might play in sides that would use more of the advantage of going forward (as was happening) to try to score a try? Not all 10s always look for the kicking option.

"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

[quote="samuraidragon"]

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

Read what i said again. I am not defending Owen Farrell, i am simply saying that it sounded to me that Wilkinson would rather not go....This is because he believes that other 10s like Flood, Farrel, Biggar, Sexton. would gain more experence from touring Australia than he would.

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.

i think he is right, he is happy to finish his career where he is, let him be.

The young guns must step up.

In all pikely hood Sexton eill be the man anyway.

I think Farrell has twice recently revealed he is not the big game player yet and in my view he won't tour, so i would be happy for JW to back up JS....but I don't think JW will go and it will be Biggie or Priest as back up with Laidlow as 9/10 utiltiy

[quote="samuraidragon"]

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

lol

think your making it up, flood tried to intercept a pass. hardly losing it!!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

Distance ain't the point. He only had a split-second to get it off.

Mind your language samurai!

samuraidragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

Distance ain't the point. He only had a split-second to get it off.

What? Sexton's was way harder and it was a final.

[quote="nathan"]

samuraidragon wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

lol

think your making it up, flood tried to intercept a pass. hardly losing it!!

He was mouthy and flustered throughout the second half. The carding was the icing on the cake after being comprehensively outplayed, outthought and outcaptained.

On these performances, neither Flood nor Farell have got what it takes.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

It wasn't that high pressure,if he missed they were still leading and they'd get to recieve a 22 drop out.It's not like he had to get it or the game was lost.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

Distance ain't the point. He only had a split-second to get it off.

What? Sexton's was way harder and it was a final.

I just checked it out. Sorry - there's no comparison. Sexton had all the time in the world - no opposition player within a mile of him.

Take away the place kicking in the Toulon v. Sarries game and there is only one OH that looked class.

Thats right Charlie Hodgson!!!

And he looked Poopie an all!

samuraidragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:"No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game."

Sexton dropped one from the half way line in the 09 final.

Distance ain't the point. He only had a split-second to get it off.

What? Sexton's was way harder and it was a final.

I just checked it out. Sorry - there's no comparison. Sexton had all the time in the world - no opposition player within a mile of him.

What matters is wilkinson is still the best at what he does... Closing a game out.

Is he the best 10 in the home nations... No.
Does he have the best kicking stats... No.
Would you want anyone else taking a drop goal/penalty to win the vital 2nd test... No.

If gatland watched the game today and still thought he shouldn't take him then he's barking and not the man for the job. if Farrell gets in over Wilkinson it will strike of The county trials jokes of old.... So and so gets in because his da was a coach etc.

Sexton, Wilkinson and Madigan has a very nice blend to it.

[quote="samuraidragon"]

nathan wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

lol

think your making it up, flood tried to intercept a pass. hardly losing it!!

He was mouthy and flustered throughout the second half. The carding was the icing on the cake after being comprehensively outplayed, outthought and outcaptained.

On these performances, neither Flood nor Farell have got what it takes.

Flood was carded in the first half...

I'm taking nothing away fro Wilkenson but i think your hyping u a few other elements to make your point.

Age is nothing.

57 out of the 79 English that toured in 2005 were over 38 years old.

How many tries were scored today with the blessed Jonny and the nearly blessed Farrell playing at 10?Quelle surprise!

[quote="nathan"]

samuraidragon wrote:

nathan wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Reading between the liens of what Wilking said, was that he would like to go. but he feels his time is done and it is the time of Toby Flood, Johnny Sexton,
Owen Farrel, Dan Biggar. they are the ones taking NH rugby in the uk forward.

So i dont think he will go to be honest.[/quote

Wilkinson totally outplayed Farrell, who again showed suspect temperament. In the QF he totally outplayed Flood, who also lost it and got himself carded.

No other 10 in the NH would have landed that drop in such a high pressure game.

lol

think your making it up, flood tried to intercept a pass. hardly losing it!!

He was mouthy and flustered throughout the second half. The carding was the icing on the cake after being comprehensively outplayed, outthought and outcaptained.

On these performances, neither Flood nor Farell have got what it takes.

Flood was carded in the first half...

I'm taking nothing away fro Wilkinson but i think your hyping u a few other elements to make your point.

nathan

I am not hyping any thing, nor am i trying to make a point.

I was simply saying. that Wilkinson would (rather let ) the Likes of Farrel, Flood, Sexton, or Biggar. Travel too Australia rather than him ( Wilkinson himself. ) Now do you understand?

OMG, I can't wait for 11:00 on Tuesday.

Calm and reason will reign supreme

11am and off work on Tues. shall choose venue carefully!! Notice Wilko didn't say "........and Priestland". You reading this Beefy?

Calm and Reason are both injured Hound and they are not in Gatlands reckoning; in all honesty I don't think they've ever been on his radar

RubyGuby wrote:Calm and Reason are both injured Hound and they are not in Gatlands reckoning; in all honesty I don't think they've ever been on his radar

Are they? That's a shame. I bet Chaos is available though. He always seems to be a Gatland favourite.

I wouldn't take wilkinson because teams no how to play against him. They no he is conservative, slow and ponderous. He has been shown up many times in the last few years playing some shocking games for England, hence he retired from international rugby.

We need a flyhalf that can play an international with out having to be protected, who doesn't need to have a creative inside centre to make thinks happen as JW does.

In the same way that Madigan won't tour neither will Wilko. NH club form ALONE is not indicative of an abilty to perform at the highest level- i.e- against one of the top 3.

Wilko was picked on his club form in 2011 wasnt he? And performed dismally then.

Gatland wouldnt be stupid enough to take either. International form and experience is the only measure he should be basing his selections on, regardless of how poor the options may look. And he understands the difference between playing for Toulon and playing against Aus in a Lion's series- poles apart.

Taylorman wrote:In the same way that Madigan won't tour neither will Wilko. NH club form ALONE is not indicative of an abilty to perform at the highest level- i.e- against one of the top 3.

Wilko was picked on his club form in 2011 wasnt he? And performed dismally then.

Gatland wouldnt be stupid enough to take either. International form and experience is the only measure he should be basing his selections on, regardless of how poor the options may look. And he understands the difference between playing for Toulon and playing against Aus in a Lion's series- poles apart.

So do you think players such as Hines, Byrne, Hook and the Armitages shouldn't be considered to tour beacause of their lack of international gametime?

Hines and Hook are great choices, Byrne has been superb for CA. I would take Byrne over Kearney at the moment.

Neither Byrne or keany should go - neither has shown much this year and Hogg and 1/2 p are well ahead

TJ wrote:Neither Byrne or keany should go - neither has shown much this year and Hogg and 1/2 p are well ahead

Byrne has been superb all season for Clermont. He is pushing Hogg in my opinion.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:In the same way that Madigan won't tour neither will Wilko. NH club form ALONE is not indicative of an abilty to perform at the highest level- i.e- against one of the top 3.

Wilko was picked on his club form in 2011 wasnt he? And performed dismally then.

Gatland wouldnt be stupid enough to take either. International form and experience is the only measure he should be basing his selections on, regardless of how poor the options may look. And he understands the difference between playing for Toulon and playing against Aus in a Lion's series- poles apart.

So do you think players such as Hines, Byrne, Hook and the Armitages shouldn't be considered to tour beacause of their lack of international gametime?

As starters? Depends why they're not playing test rugby. If its because they weren't considered good enough for their 6N side then no. They shouldn't be.

Wilkinson has either chosen to not play or is not considered good enough for England. Form for Toulon is garbage logic in terms of reconsidering him for the Lions on that basis. His test rugby has been poor for a good 6 or more years so to go back to him is pure desperation and a signal to the Aussies that the NH simply don't have a capable 10 in the mix.

But everyones entitled to their opinion. Isnt Byrne no. 3 or 4 for Wales? Why would he be considered?

If Wilko and Halfpenny both started, who should kick?

Taylorman wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Taylorman wrote:In the same way that Madigan won't tour neither will Wilko. NH club form ALONE is not indicative of an abilty to perform at the highest level- i.e- against one of the top 3.

Wilko was picked on his club form in 2011 wasnt he? And performed dismally then.

Gatland wouldnt be stupid enough to take either. International form and experience is the only measure he should be basing his selections on, regardless of how poor the options may look. And he understands the difference between playing for Toulon and playing against Aus in a Lion's series- poles apart.

So do you think players such as Hines, Byrne, Hook and the Armitages shouldn't be considered to tour beacause of their lack of international gametime?

As starters? Depends why they're not playing test rugby. If its because they weren't considered good enough for their 6N side then no. They shouldn't be.

Wilkinson has either chosen to not play or is not considered good enough for England. Form for Toulon is garbage logic in terms of reconsidering him for the Lions on that basis. His test rugby has been poor for a good 6 or more years so to go back to him is pure desperation and a signal to the Aussies that the NH simply don't have a capable 10 in the mix.

But everyones entitled to their opinion. Isnt Byrne no. 3 or 4 for Wales? Why would he be considered?

Byrne is number two for Wales, because Halfpenny is a top quality goal kicker. Byrnes form this year has been superb. Back to his best.

If you're going to restrict choices to 6N starters, then you have just 4 players to choose from. Most agree that Sexton is in pole position, while Biggar is credible, though not greatly experienced at international level.

The others are unconvincing or inexperienced or both. People are even talking about Priestland who was disastrous for Wales in the autumn internationals.

Gatland may take just 2 FHs and a utility, who could be Twelvetrees, Hook or Madigan.

utility could also be laidlaw

t1000advancedprototype wrote:If Wilko and Halfpenny both started, who should kick?

If Wilkinson, Sexton or Farrell starts at 10 then regardless of who plays 15, they take the kicks.

They are all equally as good as Halfpenny with the tee... Wilkinson is the man for the big occasion whereas Sexton has an awesome record... probably the best figures in world rugby... superior to Halfpenny anyhow.

Halfpenny probably has an extra 5m on them all in terms of distance but he's no Frans Steyn... he's not going to be slotting them over from 60+m. Given JW slotted one over from inside the halfway line yesterday the number of chances you get in that region are probably rather rare.. maybe 1 or 2 in the 3 match series.

Playing 10 is a confidence position. You can't strip away the responsibilities of slotting over the goals from a man who is meant to be running the side.

Unless Halfpenny was far superior or the 10 was a Carlos Spencer/Gregor Townsend type then you have to keep with the 10.

Why? why does the 10 have to take the place kicks? Its only recently in #rugby this has become the Norm. Hastings at FB used to take them. I recently watched a 70s game and the scots 8 was taking the kicks.

fa0019 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:If Wilko and Halfpenny both started, who should kick?

If Wilkinson, Sexton or Farrell starts at 10 then regardless of who plays 15, they take the kicks.

They are all equally as good as Halfpenny with the tee... Wilkinson is the man for the big occasion whereas Sexton has an awesome record... probably the best figures in world rugby... superior to Halfpenny anyhow.

Halfpenny probably has an extra 5m on them all in terms of distance but he's no Frans Steyn... he's not going to be slotting them over from 60+m. Given JW slotted one over from inside the halfway line yesterday the number of chances you get in that region are probably rather rare.. maybe 1 or 2 in the 3 match series.

Playing 10 is a confidence position. You can't strip away the responsibilities of slotting over the goals from a man who is meant to be running the side.

Unless Halfpenny was far superior or the 10 was a Carlos Spencer/Gregor Townsend type then you have to keep with the 10.

Depends whether the Lions want to slow down the game or not.

Halfpenny has a scrum cap, it takes longer to prepare for the kick.

Biltong wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:If Wilko and Halfpenny both started, who should kick?

If Wilkinson, Sexton or Farrell starts at 10 then regardless of who plays 15, they take the kicks.

They are all equally as good as Halfpenny with the tee... Wilkinson is the man for the big occasion whereas Sexton has an awesome record... probably the best figures in world rugby... superior to Halfpenny anyhow.

Halfpenny probably has an extra 5m on them all in terms of distance but he's no Frans Steyn... he's not going to be slotting them over from 60+m. Given JW slotted one over from inside the halfway line yesterday the number of chances you get in that region are probably rather rare.. maybe 1 or 2 in the 3 match series.

Playing 10 is a confidence position. You can't strip away the responsibilities of slotting over the goals from a man who is meant to be running the side.

Unless Halfpenny was far superior or the 10 was a Carlos Spencer/Gregor Townsend type then you have to keep with the 10.

Depends whether the Lions want to slow down the game or not.

Halfpenny has a scrum cap, it takes longer to prepare for the kick.

Forgot about that... do you reckon Adam Jones tears into him at every opportunity for wearing a scrumcap?? You don't get too many cauliflower ears playing fullback.

TJ wrote:Why? why does the 10 have to take the place kicks? Its only recently in #rugby this has become the Norm. Hastings at FB used to take them. I recently watched a 70s game and the scots 8 was taking the kicks.

Hastings took them because he was far superior to Chalmers who wasn't a class place kicker. Montegomery took them when Butch James was in the side because his successs rates were at near amateur levels.

If you have 2 players of equal quality, one a fullback, one a flyhalf then you give it to your 10, everytime.

Halfpenny is a good kicker but Sexton is far better... he hardly ever misses and from what I recall has been the most accurate kicker in test rugby for the last couple of seasons... better than Morne, better then Peter Grant.

Laidlaw has been the best IIRC. Highest % recently

Nowt wrong with sextons kicking tho

IMO the best kicker in the side should take the kicks no matter what position they play. It really is only recently the 10 has been the preffered placekicker

TJ wrote:Laidlaw has been the best IIRC. Highest % recently

Nowt wrong with sextons kicking tho

IMO the best kicker in the side should take the kicks no matter what position they play. It really is only recently the 10 has been the preffered placekicker

Laidlaw's stats can be a little misleading though. His range is pretty pathetic.... near colts range.

Peter Grant is the same too... if its beyond 40m he probably won't take a chance... yet he's been the best kicker in SR for 2-3 seasons... his average last season was 86-87%.

Because of that... I'd still say Morne is the better of the 2 for instance.

Laidlaw is not the longest of kickers - we have Hogg for that - but its insulting to say his range is poor - he regularly knocks over 40m plus kicks

For example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fm8vRV7ao

that kick looked like it was right on his boundary.. at least for his level of power he's comfortable with to maintain consistency and that was right on the 10m line.

I can't recall him kicking any further than that. He's good like Grant and Paterson but the best; well below the pecking order.

If you have a kicker with a poor range then it releases pressure for the opposition. Look at SA with Frans Steyn... you won't dare commit a penalty in your own 10m line. With Laidlaw kicking it gives teams 20m more space.