Talent Wasters

Evening guys,

How many talented boxers have we seen come and go over the years? Mayweather, Ali, Pacquaio, Jones Jr, Hopkins etc. some gifted in departments that others are not.

My question is a simple one:

What boxers can you think of, that in your mind, were brilliant talents but failed to really fulfill it??

Young stars Frankie Gavin for example?

Amazing amateur career, great prospect, but has he delivered in the pro game??

Go on, who could you guys think of (bearing in mind you can go back as far as you like)?

Most importantly, why have you made these fighters your choices......

Woud be interesting to hear gents.....

Discuss.....

Daddy of all British wasted talents is Kirkland Laing. Motivational and probable psychological issues held back what, in the words of Belle and Sebastian, "could have been a brilliant career".

Odlanier Solis.

The situation that springs to mind for me is when a boxer starts burning up the ranks early on in their pro career, looks good to go on and make a name for themselves and then gets banged up in jail for a few years or longer. Ibeabuchi jumps to my mind instantly, but I'll bet there are plenty others.

And also, does talent waster =/= perennial underachiever?

Nice thread mate

Joan Guzman for me. Such a talent but has almost zero discipline when it comes to making weight.

Could of challenged the elite level fighters (Pacquiao, Marquez, Mayweather etc.) with his elusive style but frankly the ambition to be the best just isn't there.

Judah, Camacho, Hammed, Reid possibly

James Toney in a way even the he achieved alot

Nice thoughts so far gents, especially with Judah and Hamed.....thanks silver....

Agree with D.I.R.T, as many would probably assume I would!

I wrote an article a year or so back arguing that Toney is the biggest case of wasted talent in the past quarter of a century, even though he's had a seriously fine and impressive career by most fighter's standards, and I stick by that.

The thing is, sometimes lavishly gifted fighters can fail to live up to their talent and potential for reasons which aren't entirely their fault, or because of factors which are beyond their control; a poor chin, persistent injuries, bad management, pure and rotten bad luck etc.

But with Toney, the term 'wasted' fits perfectly, sadly. The downfalls to go along with his high points have almost always been completely down to him, and him only.

Although there were a couple of poor displays thrown in, his title fight form between 1991 and 1994 showed a fighter who had the potential to be truly great and was knocking on the door of that status, for me. And then there was that mini-revival in 2003 with that utterly brilliant fight against Jirov.

But between that? Nine years of nothing, comparatively speaking.

Couple more Great British wastes of talent to set beside Laing - Benny Lynch and John Conteh. World champions and wonderful fighters, who not for the drink would be top 5 all time from here, in my book.

Any number of American heavyweights from circa 1983 - Thomas, Tubbs, Page, Witherspoon, Dokes. All overloaded with talent, but equally encumbered by rolls of fat from their addiction to the KFC bucket. Some of them were also bled dry by their love of the old tootski. Could have been a great generation to match any in heavyweight history, almost without exaggeration.

Edwin Valero as well, a truly destructive force at lightweight who proved he could box as well as brawl when he beat DeMarco

Andrew Golota. Proved in the Bowe fights that he had what it took at the top level in terms of physical toughness but had absolutely nothing up top in terms of discipline. His mental frailties were then exposed in multiple attempts at getting a title, something he never managed.

Could have got somewhere with all his ability. Sadly didn't.

Could we throw mike Tyson into this? Achieved so much early on, and had it not been fir his out of the ring fiascos, he could have been an even bigger force

... This could be a long thread.

I guess there's levels of underachievement, nobodies who could have been somebodies and champions who could have been greats. And often its just that the guys were lacking in some of the attributes, physical or mental, required to be what we hoped they might.

As super says, Laing is the obvious Brit. No-one told him that marajuana wasnt a ped.

Graham achieved more than laing but ultimately fell at the final hurdle in fights he could have/should have won.

We all had high hopes of top amateur error christie but turned out he was susceptible to a passing breeze.

Countless yanks with similar stories.

Not going there with toney, Chris.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Could we throw mike Tyson into this? Achieved so much early on, and had it not been fir his out of the ring fiascos, he could have been an even bigger force

Totally agree with this, he could have been even greater.

You could argue buster Douglas wasted more of his talent. At least tyson made the most of his for more than one fight

Naseem Hamed
Orli Solis
Andre Dirrell

Seanusarrilius wrote:Naseem Hamed
Orli Solis
Andre Dirrell

Don't think Dirrell,is quite fair- he's only lost a highly disputed fight to Froch (considered #2 at SMW). Also, he's still active.

Don't get why people say Hamed underachieved? Two weight world champion, a title holder for five years and changed the scope of boxing for the lower weight divisions. Sounds like he achieved a great deal, fact was his style was beatable.

Naz achieved a lot, but his performances deteriorated post ingle, and he retired young. Plenty, me included, think he had more to give and it wasnt as straight forward as simply being found out by a better fighter.

Audley Harrison. He could and should have been heavyweight champion but he wasted his talents after winning Olympic gold.

Can't see how Naz wasted his talent. He simply retired. 7 years on top isn't a waste.

Wilfred Benitez had everything but discipline.

Probably because if you can fight barrera and trouble him here and there when youve spent the entire camp making homoerotic videos with your hairdresser you might have something about you. He might never have beaten barrera or morales marquex or pacquaio even at his very best although I think he would have. It was his own stupid fault but he had thr talent to mix in that company without disgracing himself which is what he ended up doing.

Joe Calzaghe is an underachiever though for different reasons.

Leon Spinks

I know he beat Ali became champ but after Ali went on an almighty drugs and booze bender that harmed his chances in the rematch

James Kirkland

Trying and failing to mount a comeback. Afew years ago he was being hailed as a middleweight titan but his troubles outside the ring have all but ruined his career.

Great fight with Agurro tho.

winchester wrote:Audley Harrison. He could and should have been heavyweight champion but he wasted his talents after winning Olympic gold.

Wait, is he serious?

Had he been less greedy (food and money) Chris Byrd could have been the best Cruiserweight that ever lived.

azania wrote:Can't see how Naz wasted his talent. He simply retired. 7 years on top isn't a waste.

Wilfred Benitez had everything but discipline.

Benitez is a good pick az... Can't see how his story is that far removed from hamed's though... World champion young, 6 or so years at the top, lost direction while still relatively young. Benitez just carried on fighting while naz quit.

If hamed's 6 or 7 years at the top wasnt a waste of talent, how is Benitez' career... similar time frame, 3 weight world champion... beating cervantes, palomino and Duran... a waste?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:James Kirkland

Trying and failing to mount a comeback. Afew years ago he was being hailed as a middleweight titan but his troubles outside the ring have all but ruined his career.

Great fight with Agurro tho.

He the one pancaked by some skinny Jap that'd never knocked anyone out before??

TopHat24/7 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:James Kirkland

Trying and failing to mount a comeback. Afew years ago he was being hailed as a middleweight titan but his troubles outside the ring have all but ruined his career.

Great fight with Agurro tho.

He the one pancaked by some skinny Jap that'd never knocked anyone out before??

This loss was blamed on his trainer, he should get a mention in the best excuses thread.

Odlanier Solis.....

Ike Ibeabuchi - would have been wonderful if he wasnt mad as a box of frogs (and not mad as in aww isn't he talking to the chair)

would have loved to see what he could have done

Howard Eastman

Didnt ike change after the Tua war? Might have had some brain-alternating damage

think he was fundamentally flawed from the off kingraf...

I dont know. Wasnt really old enough to know his behaviourism, but I saw the fight, it was epic.

Similar thing happened to Gman Kingraf - serious brain damage after fighting a chilling puncher( Julian jackson) and nothing showed up on the brain scans. Same with Ike who apparently could have been treated with medicine with a high probability of sucess were he put into a mental helth institute immediately after his first offence.

Sanders was a bit of a wasted talent. Good chin, fast hands and real power. If he wasnt as fond of the outdoors and the golf course he could have developed into a very good heavyweight.

Same with Tua as well, I think the leaner version might have won a few more.

Tony Ayala looked like he had everything,but a horrible specimen outside the ring, not very sportsman like in it either, got what he deserved.

The thing with Sanders is that he really wasnt a fighter. Not mentally, he didnt live and breathe the sport. It was just a way for him to make a few bob.

Through some of his own doing, but not all, I am going to throw Herbie Hide's name into the mix.

Had the 200lb limit been about when he was campaigning as a small heavyweight, he could have made some serious headway in the cruiser division. Good skills and a hell of a dig. Just a shame he was not the sharpest tool in the box and was very small at the weight. Didn't Bowe say Hide cried like a child whenever he was hit?

Still, he did get the WBO belt twice (fighting mainly tomato cans & faded fighters admittedly). Shame he got bounced around so much by the big guys.