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In light of today's announcement - the Light-Middleweight Super Six Classic

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In light of today's announcement - the Light-Middleweight Super Six Classic Empty In light of today's announcement - the Light-Middleweight Super Six Classic

Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 2:49 pm

Afternoon, chaps.

With all the talk and excitement surrounding the upcoming Floyd-Canelo showdown, which will determine who really is numero uno at Light-Middleweight, I thought it might be a decent time to throw out another v2 specialty which we've all seen before; a Super Six format, albeit a hypothetical one, and this time to keep it topical we'll have a look at the 154 lb weight class.

The six combatants are Mike McCallum, Thomas Hearns, Terry Norris, Ronald 'Winky' Wright, Oscar De la Hoya and Saul Alvarez.

I'd loved to have included the likes of Julian Jackson and Felix Trinidad, but my aim was to make sure that none of the six fighters I'm using had ever fought each other in any division or at any stage of their careers, and I'm sure you can all see why I've gone for that option. However, the above six still provide us with a great mix of styles. Also, I'm confident that most posters amongst us will have seen at least some of all six of these fellas.

The round robin draw is as follows.

Round 1
McCallum versus Hearns
De la Hoya versus Norris
Winky versus Alvarez

Round 2
Hearns versus Norris
McCallum versus Alvarez
De la Hoya versus Winky

Round 3
McCallum versus Winky
Alvarez versus Norris
De la Hoya versus Hearns

In typical De la Hoya fashion, he's got by far the most challenging route to the semi finals!

After the group stage, the top four advance to the semis, where the draw is for first place to fight third and second place to fight fourth, setting up the grand finale.

So who comes out on top? How do these fights, or the ones which interest you most, go in your opinion?

Let's crown an all-time v2 king of the Light-Middleweight division!
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 2:53 pm

Hearns ko 3 Mccallum
DelaHoya ko 8 Norris
Alvarez ko 11 Winky

Hearns ko 2 Norris
Mccallum w12 Alvarez
DelaHoya w12 Winky

Wright w12 Mccallum (styles make fights)
Alvarez k011 Norris
Hearns w12 DelaHoya...........

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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 3:04 pm

Bleedin' 'ell, you don't think much of Norris, do you Truss!? I think he was an absolutely exceptional Light-Middleweight, certainly too good to be 0-3 (3) against this crop in any case. Interesting that you think De la Hoya does so well here, winning two of his bouts and managing to go the distance with Tommy in the other, even with such a tough draw. Oscar was a very handy 154 pounder, but I wouldn't say it was his best weight by any means.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 3:06 pm

I'm a big fan of Terry..........Just think his chin lets him down............He'd be ahead of Oscar when stopped..

Hearns lands the right on Mccallum and he goes..........

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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 3:22 pm

McCallum-Hearns is a hell of an opener, that's for sure. McCallum was a slow starter now and then, so Hearns would fancy his chances of bombing him out early doors, but McCallum showed against Jackson that he could stand up to some seriously hard shots from an absolutely murderous puncher; McCallum was visibly hurt in the opener there and roared back to stop Jackson in the very next round. It's a fight where Hearns might be well advised to use his boxing skills, rather than trying to seek and destroy.

Something tells me that McCallum would find a way to outlast Tommy, though. However many rounds it lasts, I think Hearns wins more of them, but doesn't necessarily make it to the end. Not an easy one to call.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 3:24 pm

Hearns was capable of producing a right hand that demolished Shuler for five minutes at 160.........

Heaven knows what his power tasted like at 154.........Jackson didn't possess Hearns reach or accuracy..........

However like with any Hearns fight...Mike has a punchers chance..

Longer it goes the likelier he wins.

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Post by milkyboy Thu 30 May 2013, 7:11 pm

Some cracking match ups chris..

Hearns mccallum, the toughest fight to call first. I watched mccallum kalule a while back.. A good old tussle, the younger mike was a much more mobile all rounder than the later version we saw more of. I think all results are possible here, but I'm going with hearns w12.

Oscar tko 10 Norris
Winky w12 Alvarez

Hearns tko 3 norris
Mccallum tko 9 Alvarez
Oscar sd12 winky (another to add to the contentious decisions these two both had throughout their careers)

Winky w12 mccallum (pure awkward boxers troubled mike)
Norris w12 Alvarez (bit of a Pickem)
Hearns w12 Oscar

Like truss, I think Norris along with Taylor was the most talented guy of his era... But too fragile in this company. I haven't seen anything from Canelo to suggest he's quite in this class... But he's the curve ball as he's young and could well prove me wrong.









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Post by RanjitPatel Thu 30 May 2013, 7:48 pm

Hearns
Norris
Winky

Hearns
Mccallum
Winky


Mccallum pts
Norris
Hearns

Hearns wins his relatively easy. Cant see DLH beating Norris. I rate Oscar highly but cant see him beating any of them to be honest.




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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 7:54 pm

I guess I should at least have the decency to have a go at this, as it's my article!

Round one. As I said above, gut feeling tells me that McCallum, outboxed early and behind on points, finds a way to outlast Tommy and chops him down with this body attack late, as Hearns continues to be a little too brave for his own good. Hearns gets him out of there early on occasion, but I do think that a McCallum late stoppage is, just about, the percentage call for this one, based on styles. With his reduced output and speed at 154 as opposed to the lower weights, I think Oscar is in for a torrid time against Norris. Terry's chin wasn't cast-iron, for sure, but nor do I think it was porcelain; the knockout loss to Jackson, which happened when Norris was just a wet behind the ears kid in any case, could have happened to anyone, really, and the Brown defeat quite a few years later came only after Norris had absorbed some serious punishment before he was put down and out by a very possibly illegal punch. As he was against Mosley, I see De la Hoya being lost against Norris' incredible speed and reflexes and, with him being harder to hit than Shane, I think it's Norris' to lose. Oscar could hit at 154, but not enough to turn this one, for me. Norris by comfortable decision. Although he lost the fight, I think Trout showed glimpses of how Winky would go about beating Alvarez, and I'd back him to decision the Mexican. I think his superb defence and inside game would give him the upperhand against the slower Alvarez. Winky was vulnerable against fighters who threw, threw and then threw some more non-stop, ala the way he lost to Simon, but Alvarez's pace is a little slower than that. Wright by close decision.

Round two. Hearns against Norris? Well it's either one of the flashiest and classy exhibitions of boxing you'll ever see, or it's an all-out war from the off. Right now, I'll go with the latter and back Hearns to come out on top of a slugfest. Hearns by KO inside four action-packed rounds. McCallum soaks up anything Alvarez throws at him and comes on strong near the end to win the verdict. De la Hoya against Wright is, in terms of De la Hoya's career, the only one that got away. Oscar was good at nicking rounds, Winky susceptible to losing them through not being busy enough. What's more, Wright doesn't really have the power to upset De la Hoya. I can see this one being incredibly close, with opinion on who won being very much split. But I'll go with De la Hoya's pressure to eek out a split decision.

Styles make fights and all, and with that in mind I think McCallum has got his work cut out against Wright. McCallum didn't like fighting cagey, awkward operators (look at his first fight with Kalambay, for instance) and Wright could make any look bad and feel frustrated. However, McCallum had the knack of growing in to the fight as it went on and I can see him edging out Wright, who maybe isn't busy enough to stop McCallum getting inside to land those body punches, in another very close and maybe unpopular decision. Graham gave McCallum a torrid time for six rounds or so but couldn't hold him off, and I see a repeat here. If Alvarez doesn't find the big money punch from somewhere, I see Norris simply standing in front of him all night taking shots, but firing off three for every one he takes. There's a chance that his cocky approach might play in to Alvarez's hands, but I see Norris overwhelming the Mexican with his speed. Decision win for Norris. Oscar's peeing in the wind against Hearns at 154, I feel. De la Hoya's defence was only ever really serviceable in any case, and I see him being tattooed by Tommy's jab all night. Not strong enough to hurt or upset Hearns, either. Hearns by wide decision.

So that leaves McCallum, Hearns, Norris and De la Hoya going through.

In one semi final, Hearns just repeats what he did to Oscar in the group stages to advance to the final. In the second.....What the hell, I'll be controversial. Norris turns up with everything in his arsenal working, including those fantastic reflexes, taking the lion's share of the early rounds against McCallum. Naturally, McCallum softens him up a little as things wear on, but Norris was seriously hard to catch when in full flow, similar to Nunn, Jones and a young Hamed - no fundamentals, just cat-like reactions. McCallum needs those feet planted to score as much as he'd like to, but once he's there Norris' quicksilver attacks see him impressing the judges more. It's a twelve-rounder and Norris just about hangs on for a split decision.

And then the final, Hearns against Norris again. Sadly for Terry, his run ends here. The temptation to slug it out proves too great for the pair of them, and again it's Hearns who proves to be the fastest gun in the west, taking Norris out in the mid rounds of a barnstormer.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:03 pm

Chris......Great analysis but..........Norris was decked by a jab from Brown...

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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:12 pm

That's true, Truss, but it was his brain that let him down more than anything that night. He just showed a complete lack of respect for Brown's power; as I said, the finishing punch had a sniff of foul about it, but he'd basically just given Brown an open target to tee off on for the three rounds beforehand when, in fact, he had the tools to outbox him, as he did in the rematch.

I don't know, Norris is a fighter who I really tend to enjoy watching back, so maybe I've given him too much of the benefit of the doubt, but on his day I don't think any of the above results I've given him are beyond him. Wonderful talent, just a shame he was completely off his rocker!
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Post by milkyboy Thu 30 May 2013, 8:20 pm

I thought we were waiting for the votes to come in so we were working on the same semi finalists. At the moment, I'm not sure Terry's making the cut chris. That great semi final win against the bodysnatcher is in vain. Sorry Very Happy

My favourite Norris fight is Jackson. One of the great ko's. Maybe that impairs my view, as Jackson could do that to anyone. Except he didn't, and in the end that's my problem with Norris in this company. You can't afford to make mistakes, if you don't have a great chin. And so we're clear, I really liked Norris as a fighter... Great talent.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:24 pm

Not a very popular fighter was Terry.........Conceited braggart was the phrase most used..........

Lucky timing as well...........Big fighters like Mugabi, Curry, Taylor, Brown and Leonard all past their best looked good on his record...

Close to a great fighter though..

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Post by 88Chris05 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:24 pm

It's my tournament, Milky, and if I say that Norris makes it to the final, then he makes it to the final!

As I said to Truss, the pair of you (and Ranjit) are probably closer to the mark than I am, but just thought I'd try to put a different slant on things. A McCallum-Hearns final is the likely one, I agree.
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Post by milkyboy Thu 30 May 2013, 8:33 pm

Fair enough chris. It's your party and you'll cry if you want to. Don't think we're much in disagreement on terry. He certainly was capable of beating all bar hearns possibly on his day, and arguably everyone had an outside chance against tommy as well. It's just a game of probability re how likely his day is to happen. Truss is right re timing.., he fed on the rotting corpses of Leonard, Mugabi, curry and Taylor. Just one of them on their prime would have been a more useful indicator.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:37 pm

No Hearns vs Duran IN THE FIRST ROUND ??

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Post by azania Thu 30 May 2013, 8:40 pm

Round 1
McCallum versus Hearns UD
De la Hoya versus Norris LKO
Winky versus Alvarez LKO

Round 2
Hearns versus Norris EKO
McCallum versus Alvarez EKO
De la Hoya versus Winky UD (boring fight)

Round 3
McCallum versus Winky UD
Alvarez versus Norris UD
De la Hoya versus Hearns LKO

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Post by azania Thu 30 May 2013, 8:41 pm

Hearn to fight McCallum again in the final where the result will be the same but closer, possibly split decision.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:42 pm

Az really rates canelo........

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Post by hazharrison Mon 03 Jun 2013, 11:39 am

Round 1
Hearns PTS McCallum
De la Hoya TKO 6 Norris
Wright PTS Alvarez

Round 2
Hearns KO 2 Norris
McCallum PTS Alvarez
Wright PTS De la Hoya

Round 3
McCallum PTS Wright
Norris PTS Alvarez
Hearns KO 12 De la Hoya

Semis

Hearns PTS 12 De la Hoya
McCallum PTS 12 Wright

Final

Hearns PTS 12 McCallum

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Post by captain carrantuohil Mon 03 Jun 2013, 12:27 pm

McCallum TKO 11 Hearns
Norris PTS DLH
Wright PTS Alvarez

Hearns KO 3 Norris
McCallum TKO 7 Alvarez
DLH PTS Wright

Wright PTS McCallum
Norris TKO 10 Alvarez
Hearns PTS DLH

Top 4 are therefore McCallum, Hearns, Norris and Wright, each with 2 wins. I'll try to avoid rematches for the semis, since there is no clear round-robin winner, which means that my semis pair McCallum with Norris and Hearns with Wright.

McCallum was arguably the best 154 pounder of all time (even though I think that Winky would have bored him to defeat) and I just think that he does everything better than Terry. Early deficit, body attack slows Norris down mid-rounds, Mike forces a late stoppage or wins a decision going away. A familiar enough tale.

Wright's tricks aren't enough for a sharpshooting boxer of Hearns' ilk, in my opinion. A lousy match-up for Wright, who concedes a runaway decision to the Hitman rather meekly.

The final is therefore Hearns-McCallum II; like a lot of people in the Kronk (Steward included, I suspect) I reckon Mike had Tommy's number and I look for a similar result to their RR fight. Late stoppage to the Bodysnatcher.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 05 Jun 2013, 4:38 pm

Can't see Norris beating Oscar at 154..........Oscar takes the centre of the ring and eventually Norris chin lets him down.........

Terry had so much talent but his whiskers were just not world class.......

Still some intriguing opinions...........

Watched Mccallum-Jackson the other day.........what a slugfest!

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