Leicester Tigers - 2013/14 Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

Senior Squad

Props - Ayerza, Balmain, Bristow, Cole, Mulipola, Schuster, Stankovich
Hookers - Briggs, Chuter, Hawkins, Youngs
Locks - Cain, Deacon. De Chaves, Kitchener, Parling, Price, Slater
Back Row - Crane, Croft, Gibson, Mafi, Salvi, Waldrom

Scrum Halves - Harrison, Mele, Steele, Youngs
Outside Half - Flood, Lamb, Williams
Centres - Allen, Bowden, Smith, Tuilagi
Wings - Benjamin, Camacho, Goneva, Morris, Thompstone
Full Back - Hamilton, Tait

Coaches - Cockerill (DoR & Forwards), Blaze (Asst Forwards), Burke (Backs), Murphy (Asst Backs)


Aviva Premiership Fixtures

Sun 8 Sep 14:00 Leicester Tigers   32         Worcester Warriors 15
Sat 14 Sep 15:15 Bath Rugby  27   Leicester Tigers 20
Sat 21 Sep 15:00 Leicester Tigers  33   Newcastle Falcons 6
Sun 29 Sep 14:00 Exeter Chiefs   9   Leicester Tigers  22
Sat 5 Oct 15:15 Leicester Tigers 19   Northampton Saints  19
Sun 27 Oct 14:00 London Wasps 22   Leicester Tigers 12
Sat 2 Nov 17:30 Leicester Tigers  16   Harlequins 23
Sat 23 Nov 15:00 Leicester Tigers 20   London Irish 11
Sat 30 Nov 15:00 Gloucester Rugby 17   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 21 Dec 15:00 Saracens  49 v   Leicester Tigers 10
Sat 28 Dec 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Sale Sharks
Sat 4 Jan 15:00 Leicester Tigers 27  v   Bath Rugby 27
Fri 7 Feb 19:45 Worcester Warriors  22 v   Leicester Tigers 23
Sat 15 Feb 15:00 Leicester Tigers 11  v   Gloucester Rugby  8
Sun 23 Feb 15:00 London Irish  15 v   Leicester Tigers 20
Sun 2 Mar 15:00 Newcastle Falcons  18 v   Leicester Tigers 41
Sat 22 Mar 15:00 Leicester Tigers   45 v   Exeter Chiefs 15
Sat 29 Mar 15:00 Northampton Saints 16  v   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 12 Apr 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   London Wasps Welford Road
Sat 19 Apr 15:00 Harlequins   v   Leicester Tigers Twickenham Stoop
Fri 2 May 20:00 Sale Sharks   v   Leicester Tigers Salford City Stadium
Sat 10 May 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Saracens Welford Road



Heineken Cup Fixtures

Friday, October 11 8pm Ulster Rugby 22  Leicester Tigers 16
Friday, October 18 8pm Leicester Tigers 34  Benetton Treviso 3
Sunday, December 8 3pm Leicester Tigers 41 Montpellier Herault Rugby 32
Sunday, December 15 4pm (local time) Montpellier Herault Rugby 14  Leicester Tigers 15
10/11/12 January 2014 Benetton Treviso 19 v Leicester Tigers 34
17/18/19 January 2014 Leicester Tigers 19 v Ulster Rugby 22
Saturday, 5th April ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leicester Tigers

[nathan]

Haha, we've been using that ploy all season

[yappysnap]

Playing the long game their boys and it worked a treat!   

[formerly known as Sam]

I thought we were in big trouble when Floody went off. Ryan Lamb is not a reliable 10 and he was hit and miss today. Thankfully Ben Youngs took control and played a blinder at 9, his step and reverse pass opened up the Montpellier defence as they rushed out and that took away some of their urgency off the line.

Big games from Salvi, Cole and Youngs. Gibson coming along nicely as well and is becoming a bit of a menace.

Some of those Montpellier youngsters were decidedly better than some of the bigger names that started at WR. The 9 and 10 I'm particular were really good players. Trinh Duc at 10 with the young 10 (who isn't a small bloke) at 12 would give Montpellier so many more backline options than they showed over the last two games. That big Montpellier pack just don't work hard enough to protect the ball, far too many are looking for the next carry before the ball is secured.

[nathan]

Just watching the game, With benjamins try which was ruled out as he had a foot in touch. Owens asked if the pass was ok, but the TMO looked to see if he was in touch. Was the TMO allowed to do that? or was he supposed to only answer on the pass.

Makes no difference really as it ensures the correct decision is made which is what we fans want but i didn't think the TMO could decide on an aspect they wasn't asked to.

[formerly known as Sam]

Owens amended his question after the first replay. Not sure he's strictly allowed to do that but it did ensure the correct decision. He really should ask "Is there any reason why I cannot award the try?" then stipulate any particular concerns he has rather than narrow the field and back track.

[Nachos Jones]

Owens amended his question after the first replay. Not sure he's strictly allowed to do that but it did ensure the correct decision. He really should ask "Is there any reason why I cannot award the try?" then stipulate any particular concerns he has rather than narrow the field and back track.

Its getting to the point with the TMO usage that the ref's are basically asking 'Can you please find a reason why I can disallow the try'.

Sometimes I would just prefer that ref's use the linesmen and their own instinct instead of constantly going to the TMO. Ref's seem more afraid to make a mistake than to actually make a judgement.

[lostinwales]

Stupid thing is - as was mentioned on the forward pass threads - if a ref has a clear view his two eyes on the ground are liable to be more accurate than the TMO looking at a flat screen in the stands

[formerly known as Sam]

What really annoyed me was that Owens kept asking how long was left. He wears a watch and the time on the watch should be what he goes with.

It's a catch 22 for refs. If they back themselves and get it wrong then they are vilified but if they check everything then they are accused of slowing down the game. I think Owens did the right thing on the TMO decisions even if he did bungle the question.

[yappysnap]

Sam I thought B Youngs had a really strong game until the final quarter when you were chasing it, he looked all over the pace and gave little control at that time which didn't help Lab at all. His kicking was a lot better then Dickson's though.

[quinsforever]

Just watching the game, With benjamins try which was ruled out as he had a foot in touch. Owens asked if the pass was ok, but the TMO looked to see if he was in touch. Was the TMO allowed to do that? or was he supposed to only answer on the pass.

Makes no difference really as it ensures the correct decision is made which is what we fans want but i didn't think the TMO could decide on an aspect they wasn't asked to.

technically the TMO overstepped the mark. Owens only asked about the last pass.

this is clearly an area where absolutely clear guidance needs to be given. TMOs need to follow the question of the on-field referee. Owens should have asked about the feet in touch and the last pass. his mistake.

but we cant have a situation where the TMO looks at whatever he wants to every time it goes upstairs. otherwise what is the point of the refereee asking a question, and how far back could an independent TMO go without guidance from the referee?

[quinsforever]

thought montpellier were huge in defense today. have no idea how ulster could have scored 4 tries against that defense.

[Artful_Dodger]

We didn't.  We scored one against them.  Much tougher Montepellier team than the team Montpellier fielded today though.

[brennomac]

Its going to be the round 6 epic showdown with Ulster at Welford Road.

By then it's all or nothing (well not quite) for Tigers, Ulster will take 4/5 pts off a by-now disinterested Montpellier in Ravenhill so will have 22/23 pts before Tigers game - either way two teams are going through from this group - only q is which order - and winner will probably no. 1 or 2 seed so will take on a best runner-up - Sarecens/Toulouse? Huge amount to play for - so result today for Tigers was massive

[nathan]

We didn't.  We scored one against them.  Much tougher Montepellier team than the team Montpellier fielded today though.

I think todays team did better than the one that made the trip to Welford Road.

[Notch]

I still can't decide whether they were rotating their squad for the game against Toulon next weekend or whether they were dropping players for not showing up with the required level of intensity and focus at Welford Road in the first half. Either way, whether those first team players were being given a rest or a kick up the arse it's with an eye on Toulon which is a shame.

Montpellier are the most disappointing team in the Heineken Cup this year, because in their Round 2 and 3 fixtures they just didn't show up. Yes, Ulster and Leicester are good teams and deserve credit but Montpellier just haven't played to their potential at all.

[nathan]

I still can't decide whether they were rotating their squad for the game against Toulon next weekend or whether they were dropping players for not showing up with the required level of intensity and focus at Welford Road in the first half. Either way, whether those first team players were being given a rest or a kick up the arse it's with an eye on Toulon which is a shame.

Montpellier are the most disappointing team in the Heineken Cup this year, because in their Round 2 and 3 fixtures they just didn't show up. Yes, Ulster and Leicester are good teams and deserve credit but Montpellier just haven't played to their potential at all.

Neither have Leicester.

[formerly known as Sam]

The Montpelier side today had fewer big names but they were miles better than what came to Welford Rd. The young winger who grabbed a try today and two off the bench last weekend looks a real talent, the young 10 showed more attacking intent than TD and the scrum half was exceptional. Considering those three are considered as bench at best normally is ludicrous they were quality. Those guys looked hungry in a way the big names just weren't at Welford Rd.

Tigers badly need some of their firepower back. Manu and Tait will add much needed impact and Allen is still missing which leaves us lacking a little organisation. Thankfully the forwards are picking up the slack, the likes of Cole, Youngs and Salvi have been huge for us this season. The return of Morris and Goneva is a step in the right direction and It's nice to see Benjamin getting a few games under his belt.

[nathan]

I think the biggest help has been Goneva coming back in.

[formerly known as Sam]

He provides that spark of brilliance to the backline, even if he does increase the error count as well. I hope we can hold on to him with Castres sniffing around and probably Montpellier as well now. I like him om the wing coming off the shoulder of the half backs or cutting the line off of Manu.

[yappysnap]

Goneva has stepped up and been massive for you guys. The extended run out seems to have helped Bowden as well and he's actually looking pretty good now, good enough to get another contract? If I was Cockers I'd keep him over Lamb and have him as a 12/third choice flyhalf.

Forgotten what Manu is like in the league now! When is he ever coming back? B Youngs still isn't on form yet and he's probably the biggest hamper to the backline at the moment. Kicks well though.

[nathan]

Goneva has stepped up and been massive for you guys. The extended run out seems to have helped Bowden as well and he's actually looking pretty good now, good enough to get another contract? If I was Cockers I'd keep him over Lamb and have him as a 12/third choice flyhalf.

Forgotten what Manu is like in the league now! When is he ever coming back? B Youngs still isn't on form yet and he's probably the biggest hamper to the backline at the moment. Kicks well though.

Your possibly the only person saying B. Youngs didn't have a good game. I thought he did well today and got he ball away pretty quickly.

[yappysnap]

Most of his game was very good, I just thought at the end there when you boys were chasing the try he lost all control, ended up running backwards with the ball a lot and got caught by the Montpellier defence as well. Think back to him at his best and you'll agree he's still not there yet, not saying he's terrible by any stretch but just not at his best that's all.

[nathan]

Most of his game was very good, I just thought at the end there when you boys were chasing the try he lost all control, ended up running backwards with the ball a lot and got caught by the Montpellier defence as well. Think back to him at his best and you'll agree he's still not there yet, not saying he's terrible by any stretch but just not at his best that's all.

Agree he isn't at his best yet, but don't think he lost control at the end. Thought he had a good game, just like T. Youngs did. Don't think many englands will pick up on it though.

[yappysnap]

I still think he's the best fit for England. A good mix of both Dickson and Care's playing styles. He'd get so many chances with guys like Morgan or Vunipola to run off of as well.

Agree Tom Youngs had a really big game.

[formerly known as Sam]

I thought Ben was probably MOTM to be honest. He was at heart of so much good stuff especially late on where Lamb was looking flakey and leaving Ben with pretty much running the attack. He did scurry around the back of the ruck quite a bit but he wasn't really caught much and used the eagerness of the Montpellier defence to put our ball carriers through holes. He's not on his best form but he was excellent and key to the scoring of the final try as he marshalled that attack down into the 22 before whipping a pass out to the backs.

The Youngs boys will have given Lancaster something to think about.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

It's good to see the Tigers getting some dog back.

We'll need some of that spirit next week against the Sarries.

Thank you, Mr Cockerill for retaining faith in the base requirement of the pack. Where would we be without them?

[Hood83]

I thought Ben was probably MOTM to be honest. He was at heart of so much good stuff especially late on where Lamb was looking flakey and leaving Ben with pretty much running the attack. He did scurry around the back of the ruck quite a bit but he wasn't really caught much and used the eagerness of the Montpellier defence to put our ball carriers through holes. He's not on his best form but he was excellent and key to the scoring of the final try as he marshalled that attack down into the 22 before whipping a pass out to the backs.

The Youngs boys will have given Lancaster something to think about.

Really? Thought Tom was good but Ben looked ponderous. Compared with Care against Racing Metro, I think he's firmly behind him now. He always looks simultaneously hurried and laboured, slow to the breakdown, slow to get the ball out, slow to make a decision and then slow to pass. He has moments when he seems to step on the gas and looks brilliant but it seems that his first instinct is to wait and wait at the moment. I thought the Montpellier SH was far better.

[RDW]

Rugby banter page is claiming Johnnie Beattie is joining the Tigers - anyone able to confirm?

Also, I I'm assuming this is instead of Dave Denton?

[Sgt_Pooly]

I was really impressed with Youngs, some great tactical play and always a threat. He'll always be ahead of Care for England for me as Care hardly ever reproduces his club form for England.

I think Tom Youngs may have burnt his bridges a little after his awful AI. He still throws too many duff darts for my liking, even when under little pressure. Hartley is nailed on at 2 for England without a doubt. T Youngs will be very lucky to stay as backup.

[yappysnap]

Youngs really seems to split peoples views!

As a completely biased Quins fan I'd put him behind Care but for England I do still think he should be first choice.

[formerly known as Sam]

Sgt interesting comments made by Cockerill post AI where he said it is hard to hit your jumpers when you've not trained with them. Alluding to the rumours that Tom Youngs missed several sessions as he was with his heavily pregnant wife who gave birth before the ABs game.

Considering his throwing for Tigers has been excellent and for the Lions it was flawless.

[nathan]

I thought Ben was probably MOTM to be honest. He was at heart of so much good stuff especially late on where Lamb was looking flakey and leaving Ben with pretty much running the attack. He did scurry around the back of the ruck quite a bit but he wasn't really caught much and used the eagerness of the Montpellier defence to put our ball carriers through holes. He's not on his best form but he was excellent and key to the scoring of the final try as he marshalled that attack down into the 22 before whipping a pass out to the backs.

The Youngs boys will have given Lancaster something to think about.

Really? Thought Tom was good but Ben looked ponderous. Compared with Care against Racing Metro, I think he's firmly behind him now. He always looks simultaneously hurried and laboured, slow to the breakdown, slow to get the ball out, slow to make a decision and then slow to pass. He has moments when he seems to step on the gas and looks brilliant but it seems that his first instinct is to wait and wait at the moment. I thought the Montpellier SH was far better.

you sure you wasnt watching another game?

[nathan]

I was really impressed with Youngs, some great tactical play and always a threat. He'll always be ahead of Care for England for me as Care hardly ever reproduces his club form for England.

I think Tom Youngs may have burnt his bridges a little after his awful AI. He still throws too many duff darts for my liking, even when under little pressure. Hartley is nailed on at 2 for England without a doubt. T Youngs will be very lucky to stay as backup.

but was it awful through the AIs or just in the latter part of the NZ game?

It's a bit daft to say he's burnt his bridges. He's been knocked off the starting spot by Hartley who was playing better. It will now put the presure back on T. Youngs to play better. Thats what we want.

[formerly known as Sam]

Nathan, some people will see what they want. For me it was the first time this season that Ben dictated the tempo of the Tigers attack and his movement off the back of the rucks opened spaces for the forward runners. The passes were quick when they needed to be and measured when they didn't. I've played 10 and you don't want your 9 throwing the ball out of the ruck at break neck speed all game as it makes it difficult for players to come back into the game after each phase. Whilst your probing the defence and drawing in defenders the pass speed doesn't matter. It's once the ball is carried in behind, the miss match or over lap is on that's when you want the 9 to hit the gas and start whipping the ball out. Ben did that pretty well.

[VietGwentRevisited]

Brett Deacon announces his retirement and gets a job with the Academy.

[Hood83]

I thought Ben was probably MOTM to be honest. He was at heart of so much good stuff especially late on where Lamb was looking flakey and leaving Ben with pretty much running the attack. He did scurry around the back of the ruck quite a bit but he wasn't really caught much and used the eagerness of the Montpellier defence to put our ball carriers through holes. He's not on his best form but he was excellent and key to the scoring of the final try as he marshalled that attack down into the 22 before whipping a pass out to the backs.

The Youngs boys will have given Lancaster something to think about.

Really? Thought Tom was good but Ben looked ponderous. Compared with Care against Racing Metro, I think he's firmly behind him now. He always looks simultaneously hurried and laboured, slow to the breakdown, slow to get the ball out, slow to make a decision and then slow to pass. He has moments when he seems to step on the gas and looks brilliant but it seems that his first instinct is to wait and wait at the moment. I thought the Montpellier SH was far better.

you sure you wasnt watching another game?

Yup. He's fast turning into a SH who people will claim has good 'game management'. Which means he takes an age to decide what to do. Compare how long it takes him to get the ball out of the ruck with Care. I honestly can't see how people don't notice this. People saying Care doesn't replicate his form at international level - I think that says more about the England set-up than it does Care. Youngs kicks too much for me too, far too much.

[Sgt_Pooly]

" People saying Care doesn't replicate his form at international level - I think that says more about the England set-up than it does Care. Youngs kicks too much for me too, far too much."

Or possibly the step up to Int level is a little too much for Care? I fail to see how numerous England management teams have stopped Care performing on the Int stage. I can count on one hand the times I've been impressed with Care when he's started.

"Sgt interesting comments made by Cockerill post AI where he said it is hard to hit your jumpers when you've not trained with them. Alluding to the rumours that Tom Youngs missed several sessions as he was with his heavily pregnant wife who gave birth before the ABs game.

Considering his throwing for Tigers has been excellent and for the Lions it was flawless."

Sam I share your view on Ben but can't agree on Tom. He was dreadful in the AI's and his throwing is a serious issue. I know he looked decent at the weekend but he still made quite a few errors and this was with the opposition not really competing.

I personally don't see how we can risk him for England, he's too much of a liability.

[formerly known as Sam]

Two miss throws with the sun in his eyes vs a man of the match performance. Of course three iffy games with a lineout he wasn't training with is worth considerably more than a great season last year, solid 6N, excellent showing for the Lions and a brilliant season so far with Tigers. To suggest he's a liability is ridiculous when we have a backline that can't run a set move.

[Sgt_Pooly]

A hooker has to be able to throw, it's that's simple.

Youngs throwing was awful during the AI and he's never quite looked comfortable in this department for England. He's steady enough for Leicester, I think his occasional lapses are made up for in his loose play.

When he pulls on that England jersey though he seems out of his comfort zone and really struggled. Perhaps it's the pressure/unfamiliarity or just the step up in quality.

Whatever it is, as an England fan I don't want us to be in the situation where every line out is a gamble. He has to improve.

I think SL will start looking at other hooking options sooner rather than later. Line out ball is key to keeping the teams momentum and Youngs is a liability in this department.

The backline is also a shambles but that doesn't mean our set piece has to be as well.

[maverickmak]

The lineout vs NZ was barely scrapping by before Youngs came on anyway. The stats may say 100%, but the quality of ball was poor most of the match. NZ made a mess of us. New partnership to work with. Inexperienced callers. Head possibly not fully in the game due to the aforementioned sprog. Funny how he goes back home and immediately his darts improve.

People need to give him a break. He has had a Frak good year. Yes Hartley has deservedly taken his chance, but to say Tom doesn't deserve his place is ridiculous. He has proven himself at top level, and is streets ahead of the other contenders (barring Hartley). Nobody offers his level of workrate and impact in attack and defense, and bad throwing days are very much a rarity for him now. Every hooker has them now and again.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Youngs bad darts days are hardly a rarity.

I've never heard so many excuses offered up. Head not in it, sun in his eyes, lack of practise......he just can't throw!

[Artful_Dodger]

Sun in his eyes   

Sorry, but that is pretty funny.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

R5: Saturday 11th January 2014, KO 14:35
Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso
R6: Saturday 18th January 2014, KO 18:00
Welford Road, Leicester

http://www.ercrugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures_heineken_cup.php

[yappysnap]

Sun in his eyes   

Sorry, but that is pretty funny.

You'll find the Tigers fans are very protective of their players. More so then most and usually it's for a good reason. But yes, blaming it on the sun in his eyes sounds like something his mom would be coming out with, especially as the game was in England. In December.

[Welly]

TBh Youngs had played non stop rugby last year and Hartley had a nice big rest , Youngs club lineout throwing has been very good lately, and Kitchener form has been immense. If lawes was a better organiser then youngs wouldn't of had a problem .

Also Tait and Matera supposedly in the squad for saracens.

Matera maybe starting cant wait to see more of him.

[yappysnap]

TBh Youngs had played non stop rugby last year and Hartley had a nice big rest , Youngs club lineout throwing has been very good lately, and Kitchener form has been immense. If lawes was a better organiser then youngs wouldn't of had a problem .

That's better!! Nice work in getting Youngs off the hook AND shifting the blame on to another teams player!   

[yappysnap]

Oh and who's Matera?

It'll be good to see Tait back too.

[beshocked]

Welly do you think Tait will start?

Do you think it's wise to start Matera vs Saracens?

[broadlandboy]

Pablo Matera young Argentinian Back row international signed as Croft Injury replacement

[Welly]

Think tait will be bench.

Well Matera ha played against SA, NZ and aus and impressed in those games, he is very physical.

I would back a back row of

6. matera
7. Salvi
8. Crane/ waldrom

Against any in the pimership.

But he maybe on the bench though with Gibson starting just heard he maybe starting.

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