Leicester Tigers - 2013/14 Thread

[LondonTiger]

First topic message reminder :

Senior Squad

Props - Ayerza, Balmain, Bristow, Cole, Mulipola, Schuster, Stankovich
Hookers - Briggs, Chuter, Hawkins, Youngs
Locks - Cain, Deacon. De Chaves, Kitchener, Parling, Price, Slater
Back Row - Crane, Croft, Gibson, Mafi, Salvi, Waldrom

Scrum Halves - Harrison, Mele, Steele, Youngs
Outside Half - Flood, Lamb, Williams
Centres - Allen, Bowden, Smith, Tuilagi
Wings - Benjamin, Camacho, Goneva, Morris, Thompstone
Full Back - Hamilton, Tait

Coaches - Cockerill (DoR & Forwards), Blaze (Asst Forwards), Burke (Backs), Murphy (Asst Backs)


Aviva Premiership Fixtures

Sun 8 Sep 14:00 Leicester Tigers   32         Worcester Warriors 15
Sat 14 Sep 15:15 Bath Rugby  27   Leicester Tigers 20
Sat 21 Sep 15:00 Leicester Tigers  33   Newcastle Falcons 6
Sun 29 Sep 14:00 Exeter Chiefs   9   Leicester Tigers  22
Sat 5 Oct 15:15 Leicester Tigers 19   Northampton Saints  19
Sun 27 Oct 14:00 London Wasps 22   Leicester Tigers 12
Sat 2 Nov 17:30 Leicester Tigers  16   Harlequins 23
Sat 23 Nov 15:00 Leicester Tigers 20   London Irish 11
Sat 30 Nov 15:00 Gloucester Rugby 17   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 21 Dec 15:00 Saracens  49 v   Leicester Tigers 10
Sat 28 Dec 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Sale Sharks
Sat 4 Jan 15:00 Leicester Tigers 27  v   Bath Rugby 27
Fri 7 Feb 19:45 Worcester Warriors  22 v   Leicester Tigers 23
Sat 15 Feb 15:00 Leicester Tigers 11  v   Gloucester Rugby  8
Sun 23 Feb 15:00 London Irish  15 v   Leicester Tigers 20
Sun 2 Mar 15:00 Newcastle Falcons  18 v   Leicester Tigers 41
Sat 22 Mar 15:00 Leicester Tigers   45 v   Exeter Chiefs 15
Sat 29 Mar 15:00 Northampton Saints 16  v   Leicester Tigers 22
Sat 12 Apr 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   London Wasps Welford Road
Sat 19 Apr 15:00 Harlequins   v   Leicester Tigers Twickenham Stoop
Fri 2 May 20:00 Sale Sharks   v   Leicester Tigers Salford City Stadium
Sat 10 May 15:00 Leicester Tigers   v   Saracens Welford Road



Heineken Cup Fixtures

Friday, October 11 8pm Ulster Rugby 22  Leicester Tigers 16
Friday, October 18 8pm Leicester Tigers 34  Benetton Treviso 3
Sunday, December 8 3pm Leicester Tigers 41 Montpellier Herault Rugby 32
Sunday, December 15 4pm (local time) Montpellier Herault Rugby 14  Leicester Tigers 15
10/11/12 January 2014 Benetton Treviso 19 v Leicester Tigers 34
17/18/19 January 2014 Leicester Tigers 19 v Ulster Rugby 22
Saturday, 5th April ASM Clermont Auvergne v Leicester Tigers

[LondonTiger]

I'll take Kibirige off your hands.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd take Joel Hodgson but otherwise our squad is pretty good. Think we have good prospects coming through we just need to give them some game time.

[LondonTiger]

Toby Flood finally confirmed as joining Toulouse.

I wish him well.

[Welly]

Rumours were he got offered more money and more budget for his scouting network. Tiger couldn't/wouldn't match the offer so he left. Shame he was a hero at Tigers and Notts as well as being the greatest kicker of all time.

I'd say after a slightly iffy period we are churning out good players we're just not adapting our recruitment and making the most of them.

 Yep saints flashed the cash.

 AS said the current crop has

 Pohe
 Cain
 Thacker
 Price
 Wells
 Brugnara
 Pasquali
 Rudkin
 Steele
 Bower
 Catchpole
 Purdy

 Now out of those my favs are Thacker, Pohe, Pasquali, Brugnara, Wells, Cain and Price. I reckon all of these could be 1st team squad players in the next 2/3 seasons it just depends on other clubs luring them away.

 And the next set we have some hugly talented backs players and some very good forwards. The standard is rising imo.

 But the trouble with tigers compared with all the other clubs Quins, Sarries, Saints etc. Is we haven't had a chance to bring them on in a no pressure situation whereas tigers have the constant demand for success every year it makes the coaches job so difficult to bring on youngsters.

[formerly known as Sam]

Rhys and David Williams (unrelated I believe) are ones to watch. David Williams played in the 7s last summer and was lightening and at only 17. Rhys made his debut in the LV vs Bath and has great footwork, highlight of the LV being the diminutive winger's tackle and rip on Fearns (and Fearns reaction) late on in that game. Inside centre and Charlie Thacker and openside Owen are also big prospects.

Purdy and Catchpole are both probably off this summer. Not worried about that, Pasquali, Thacker, Wells, Cain, Price and Pohe are the big talent we should be looking to see more of next season. Though Cain is now onto his third serious knee injury.

[nathan]

far happier with todays performance. Ben Youngs is starting to come back into form which is great for us and england(will put pressure on Care). I thought Ed Slater was brilliant too, i think he should be going to NZ. Hope we keep Goneva, he really has kept us in the fight this year.

Lets just hope we keep on improving for the run in. Bonus point win next weekend would be nice

[Scratch]

should Gatland be looking at Williams with Priestlands drop in form?

[formerly known as Sam]

Williams isn't quite looking international standard yet. Needs a little work to fine tune his game but could certainly offer a very different but no less potent option in attack. He may be a summer tour squad option, certainly Wales need a 10 that will put them in the right areas of the pitch and uses a passing game that utilises the Welsh backline rather than Priestland who runs it too narrow or goes wide too deep.

[Welly]

I think he will get caps for wales but I hope he doesn't go to SA, I rather he had the summer off followed by a full pre-season with Freddie Burns.

 But in the future I think a player like Williams who is Steady but plays on the gain-line and is solid in defence would allow wales to use players like Liam Williams at 15 instead of Halfpenny if they wanted.

 But Williams Kicking from hand outside the odd kicks was huge esp into the wind..

[Welly]

Tom croft was warming up with the players before the game.

[LondonTiger]

Tom croft was warming up with the players before the game.

He looked really fit. Enjoyed the session where Tom Youngs was practicing lineouts from the 22m line aiming to hit the cross bar with Croft catching.

Anyone know why Matty Tait was pulled?

Ben Youngs had his best performance of the season, as did the team, while Tom Youngs was truly awesome today.

[Welly]

Tait had a slight tweak wasn't 100% but will be back for next week, don't think cockers was going to risk it with Saint and Clermont coming up.

 starting from the Irish game YBY has been getting better and better best thing him not being picked and benched for England.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

I'd play Williams over Floody this week-end. He looks as if his heart isn't in it any more.

Mentally he's already left imo.

Totally unTiger-like. His abilty is clearly still there but not the required commitment and desire.

But the rest of the team were admirable.

Tom Youngs - I wonder if part of his problem at the throw-ins is the possibly over-ambitious calls from Lawes. Calls to the back of the line are dodgy when the thrower is low in confidence/got the yips. He's not been so bad for the Tigers, but as mentioned above, both the Youngs bros form is recovering form nicely.

Worryingly though, Ben's form is prone to regular cycles and seems to depend on long spells of fitness and he appears to require a long time to get back on top of his game.

I won't mind if we lose to the Saints this week. I want them to win the league this season as I still tend to acknowledge the regular season over the playoffs and for me, Saints are thus far the best. But frankly, it's anyone but Sarries for me though - I cannot warm to their business model.

[LondonTiger]

Disagree about Flood's heart no being in it. Yes he missed a tackle first up, but he gave it absolutely everything when he came on, showing his typical bravery when in possession carrying the ball up in the face of the opposition to offload/pass just before he is flattened by a slightly high and slightly late challenge.

[formerly known as Sam]

It's probably not easy for Flood coming off the bench recently. Williams is putting the team into good positions with rock steady play and Flood is clearly looking to win the shirt back. His first 30 seconds (missed tackle then penalty) were abject but after that he warmed up a bit but looked like he was forcing things rather than relaxing into his position. I think he is struggling a bit with focus but I don't think he's wrapping himself in cotton wool.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

The reason I demur, LT, is not on the basis of a cameo performance when the game was won and the points bagged on Sunday, but on other games this season. When the team was depleted for reasons of form, fitness and outside calls, Floody had the opportunity to display his doggedness and ability in adversity. He failed in that respect. He didn't show the hunger.

Meanwhile, Williams has steadily bedded in and is now far more effective for us than when he arrived. I've been impressed with his development. Especially after the disappointment of Lamb.

[LondonTiger]

I am pretty sure his head is not completely right - affected by concussions, BYs form, leaving and the shameful way Cockerill treats those who are leaving. Anyone who questions his desire should I suggest, really take a look at the game of rugby again. His performances have not been down to a lack of desire or hunger, just form and fitness.

Based purely on form Williams deserves to start, but the allegations that flood is not trying irks me. As you say, Sam, if anything he is trying too hard. I was very vocal with some curmudgeons on Sunday who were shouting that flood does not deserve to wear the Leicester shirt and called him a Judas. He has done so much for us. He has never given anything less than 100%.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Well I for one wouldn't dream of slagging a Tiger from the terrace/stand, but whilst a player (especially a stand-off) when those around him are missing or misfiring, I would have hoped a class ten would have found more fire, grit and determination in adversity.

I think that when the team was in real adversity, Toby reflected it rather than demonstrably compensating for it. Maybe I'm being hard, but that's how I feel.

I think he lost his focus running up to and since penning his new contract.
Imo.

[LondonTiger]

I just feel accusations that he is not trying to be unfair.

Not achieving - fine I agree - but you can see he is trying with every fibre.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

I think that we'll just have to disagree on this point, LT.

But it was good to see the back line firing at last. And I don't think it was all down to Manu's return like they implied on the telly in the 1st twenty.
The return to form of Hamilton, Goneva and Ben and a good centre partnership is most welcome.

Perhaps we can go to C-F with some hope!

[Welly]

Flood has always tried for us, sometimes I think he over tries hence why this season since he came back he was taking the ball more on his own etc. Flood heart will always be in it until he leaves, Cockerill, Williams and Youngs have both said how much help he is giving Owen but still wants to be 1st team 10. To say his heart isn't in it is wrong imo. But on form Flood shouldn't be ahead of Williams.

 I think Youngs has been the key, ever since the Irish game where he has gained form the team has grown around him, The likes of Williams and Crane has both picked up form due it it and that allows others around them to do what they do.

[beshocked]

Disagree Portnoy. Manu is your most important player in my opinion. Tigers have a bit more spring in their step with him back. He gives the Tigers much more bite in attack.

Every side needs players who are going to get them on the front foot. Tigers two primary players to fill that in the backline are Goneva and Manu. Tigers were relying on Goneva with Manu out for that impetus in attack but now Manu is back you have two players that can cause havoc. As a rival fan, Manu is the player on your team I am most wary of, then Goneva.

As for Toby,I agree with Londontiger. Doesn't mean he's not trying, he's trying too hard, forcing plays,making poor decisions, trying to run when it would be more sensible to pass.

You shouldn't turn on Toby, he's done very well for you.

[LondonTiger]

 I think Youngs has been the key, ever since the Irish game where he has gained form the team has grown around him, The likes of Williams and Crane has both picked up form due it it and that allows others around them to do what they do.

It can be argued that Cockers sacrificed Flood for Youngs. Youngs form was dire and really Mele should have bneen starting. However Flood was going so was heavily criticised in the press (unfairly) and dropped (fairly). youngs was praised in the press (undeservedly) and retained (undeservedly but understandable).

What it means is that now with Manu back and his presence taking defenders attention away from others, Williams, Youngs and Crane playing well, suddenly we looked like something more than a geriatric, toothless tiger.

Looking forward to the weekend, and more confident than I was that we can make the Play-Offs again.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

'shocked, I have to agree that Manu's very presence must have exercised Baxter's mind to the point of sh!tlessness.

Certainly changes will have to be made by SL to accommodate Manu especially if his form improves on that of his return.

Imo, Cockers timed his return perfectly for his own club ends - although, of course, the Tigers, if they can, don't like to rush players back.

This is the pointy end...

[LondonTiger]

Gotta say that poor old Nowell got a real PI battering. Manu, Goneva and Logo all treated him like a rag doll.


Oh and how was the Chief player not sinbinned for the deliberate knock on. We had 3 men done for it the other week.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Nowell is still but a boy yet. The next two years will tell.

[beshocked]

Portnoy complaint not quite sure I would go that far but opposition are certainly more wary when Manu is on the team sheet.

Londontiger it makes sense to keep faith in B.Youngs because he's staying at Tigers. He's a very good player when on form too.

Well Nowell has had a bullseye on him ever since he was picked by England.

Pacific Island players are really entertaining players. If they could add more technique to their powerful attributes...

[Portnoy's Complaint]

There's a whole new generation of Tuilagis being born and bred in Europe as we write.

Maybe we'll have a chance to see one day along with Manu and Faletau.

Scary...

[LondonTiger]

Freddie's boys doing well in the academy/Leicestershire age group rugby.

[formerly known as Sam]

Ben Youngs form picked up once Williams had the 10 shirt. I think he is finding it easier to play with a 10 that doesn't leave him with all of the tactical kicking duties. I expect Flood to have an op on the glute/hamstring issue he's had in the summer. He's not looked the same since then.

[LondonTiger]

Was it the home game against Montpellier where that happened?

A lot of things happened around the same time. It was then, after Lancaster told him that no matter how good his form he would not supplant Farrell, that he decided to move to France, he was also still carrying the knocks from Lawes and Tuohy and really should have sat out the first few weeks of the season.

He has not been right physically and has looked frail. He has not been right mentally - has looked shell-shocked. However, unlike Ryan Lamb, he has always gone out and performed with heart and courage. Sadly that could not overcome the other issues.

[lostinwales]

Freddie's boys doing well in the academy/Leicestershire age group rugby.

Aren't there some more Tuilagi's growing up in France? There is going to be a Tuilagi rugby arms race one day

[LondonTiger]

Freddie's boys doing well in the academy/Leicestershire age group rugby.

Aren't there some more Tuilagi's growing up in France? There is going to be a Tuilagi rugby arms race one day

Henry's kids, very good at rugby I believe. Probably play for France Ladies though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Definitely turn of the year Flood looked unsteady. Against Montpellier he was good but he certainly did some damage there and the glute is a real sod of an injury as it hampers running, kicking as well as pulling on the lower back and hamstring. He's been a great servant and I'm sad he's going but the cash and that Tolouse team are a big draw for any 10. I hope he comes back to form and leads us to silverware but he'll have to be good to push out the lad he and Geordie have been mentoring for the last 8ish months.

[nathan]

Flood still has a lot to give, even if it's not on the pitch. He's a professional and will work hard with Williams.

[yappysnap]

Very impressive from Tigers.

But I was a little surprised to hear how stunned the commentators were by this performance, as the same thing has happened for the last three or four seasons. Patchy Sep-Jan and then a gradual pick up in form for when the 6N's are over and come out all guns blazing right to the finishing line.

This was pretty much the same thing.

Great to see Ben Youngs back on the up, him and Care playing to their potentials will be out standing for England. That backline of Williams,Allan,Manu,Goneva is out standing. But it was Slater,Mulipola,Youngs, Crane and my MoM Salvi that won that game for you.

As a long distance punt i'm going to say Tigers to play Sarries in the final having beaten Saints at FG's to get there.

[formerly known as Sam]

Slater was HUGE for us yesterday, he was my man of the match. Salvi was his stealing, Gibson was going about his business, Crane hinting at a return to his best and Kitchener was great when he came on. Front row are internationals no surprise they are quality, thought Balmain looked solid when he came on, carried and got stuck in which is what you want from your young tightheads.

Agree with Yappy that it was the forward graft that gave the platform, that and the Chiefs standing off Youngs at the ruck, you cannot give him time on the ball.

Morris, Benjamin and Croft to all come back before the end of the season as well!

[yappysnap]

Morris, Benjamin, Cole, Croft, Tait, Bowden.

If Tigers could ever play their first choice team it'd be scary enough for any team in Europe (not to mention the selections would give Cockers a head ache!).

[Jimpy]

Morris, Benjamin, Cole, Croft, Tait, Bowden.

If Tigers could ever play their first choice team it'd be scary enough for any team in Europe (not to mention the selections would give Cockers a head ache!).

My prediction - Saracens will top the league, but Tigers will win the title.

[Welly]

Loamanu granted visa, Bowden likely to be going.

 Would leave @ 12 Allen, Pohe, Heptema
 
 Reckon more cap room now for goneva hopefully, Also reckon Bai will be granted Visa soon so he can cover 10 and 12.

 Shame to lose a Bowden but looking at it from a cap to depth point of view it makes sense, Pohe and Heptema (who is very much in the same mold as Bowden) are our 2 most talented backs youngsters who both play 12 and we add a player like Loamanu who can cover 6,8,11,12,13,14,15. Add in bai and I think it some smart business if it works out like that.

 Thoughts

[yappysnap]

Good for Tigers to trust in their academy boys, next season if Allen can stay fit you should be all right, especially as in a push you can play Manu at 12.

Could even see 12. Manu 13. Goneva which would certainly be entertaining in a fair weather game!

Perhaps just one more season for Goneva? He's a talent but ageing and as mentioned blows hot and cold, I can only see this getting worse as he gets older and contemplates retirement etc best not to have to hold onto him if his heart isn't in it.

[Welly]

Goneva wont stay for 1 year imo.

 But imagine a backline of

 Youngs
 Williams
 Benjamin
 Pohe
 Manu
 Goneva
 Tait

 Mouth watering prospect.
 
 The backs would be sorted really
 9. Youngs, Mele, Harrison, Steele
10. Williams, Burns, Bai
12, Bowden, Bai, Pohe, Heptema
13, Manu, Goneva, Loamanu, Camacho, Pohe, Smith, Thompstone
14, Goneva, Benjamin, Morris, Scully, Camacho, Thompstone, Loamanu, Hamilton
15, Tait, Morris, Scully, Loamanu, Hamilton

 Would be a loss to see Bowden go though but it is liveable.

[Geordie]

Is Pohe of pacific island heritage?

Has his ACl recovery gone ok?

[nathan]

Is Pohe of pacific island heritage?

Has his ACl recovery gone ok?

I think he's a kiwi.

[Geordie]

Ah right cheers Nathan.

[Welly]

Kiwi Dad Cornish Mum.

 He has started Nottingham's last 2 games so I assume the ACL went brilliantly.

[lostinwales]

Is Pohe of pacific island heritage?

Has his ACl recovery gone ok?

I believe he is half Cornish half PI

[Geordie]

Ah right...good to see his recuperation has gone well. Him and many in the midfield with Goneva on the wing...ouch, some power and pace there.

[Welly]

Ah right...good to see his recuperation has gone well. Him and many in the midfield with Goneva on the wing...ouch, some power and pace there.

 add I our young future winger Zach Kilbridge and life will be good

[Geordie]

I can imagine that would be great...but the days of the falcons being a top 4 side feeder club appears to be over...thanks to Mr Richards.

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