Warren Gatland : Greatest Lions Coach Ever?

Unpopular? Controversial? Courageous...

Maybe, but ushering a Lions side to a record victory and first series win if the professional era marks him as the greatest Lions coach ever.

no Geech is and probably always will be the greatest.

But Mr Gatland is certainly up there

Just imagine if he did two in a row

Nowhere near McGeechan. Would you have even written this if Gatland wasn't a kiwi?

Record win. Series win. Geech talks a good game but in the last 10 years his best plays have been behind a microphone.

Winning a series puts him above a lot of others but still light years from McGeechan

The Lions have only failed to win a series in Australia once before.

Hahahahaha! Behave yourself!

we won, I'm happy about that. But mistakes were made along the way. He's done better than most but he is still a long way from Geech.

Or even Carwyn James

Hes probably had the best opportunity at winning a series since the pro era given the team he was up against and the players at his disposal.

Geech is a legend for the right reasons....and well I can't say the same for Gatland.....brought us the series but sapped a lot of the fun out of it for me with the way he managed the team.

Gatland is incredibly lucky that Lealiifano was knocked out in the first test, today was the only test we've looked the better side and deserved to win, and that seems to be mostly due to the Lions' backs ignoring what Gatland has had them doing all tour.

Of course, of course. It's all about the players ignoring the silly coach. Yawn.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Of course, of course. It's all about the players ignoring the silly coach. Yawn.

It's like England in 2007 GE, you remember, when we made the final despite being 'the worst defending champions ever'. The players started to call the shots (i.e. revert back to 10 man rugby). A top tournament I think you'll agree.

You're right though, it's always the coach driving the team on. Just look at France in 2011...

Yes. Keep the tin foil hat on.

Carwyn James...only coach to beat a NZ side...perhaps...

If its Geechs it cant be based on successes then having been involved in 3 of 5 tour loses? But for service to the cause over  long period?  Absolutely. (Must have had neves of steel having to put up with such a fickle fan base over selections- who'd want that)

As a player I still remember his triple sidestep try vs North Auckland with the Goings and Joe Morgan in 1977. Fantastic solo try.

""We came out here with the attitude that we wanted to play some rugby and we wanted to move the ball and we scored a lot of points and a lot of tries," - warren Gatland

Doesn't sound much like a player revolution to me

He's a New Zealander, Glorious, so I reckon so.  I reckon so

I keep reading these threads assuming they are wums but...

Gatland's team won the series and that is an acheivement worth celebrating but...

His also was one very lucky (for him) slip from losing the potentially most winnible Lions Series in many many years. This was a series that many were predicting would be a whitewash for these Lions. Most expected scores like yesterday in each of the tests.

Gatland came very very close to losing this series.

...unlike previous Lions tours that is of course...?

MrsP wrote:I keep reading these threads assuming they are wums but...

Gatland's team won the series and that is an acheivement worth celebrating but...

His also was one very lucky (for him) slip from losing the potentially most winnible Lions Series in many many years. This was a series that many were predicting would be a whitewash for these Lions. Most expected scores like yesterday in each of the tests.

Gatland came very very close to losing this series.

Dangerous talk there, Mrs P! Brave woman. Dissention can prove painful

Taylorman wrote:...unlike previous Lions tours that is of course...?

Each tour on its own merits Taylor, or else we'll be back talking about what lessons Gatland could have learned from ol' Willie Johns tour in '74. And we all know nobody wants to go back into the annals of history again. There has been acres of stuff written about that over the last few weeks.

Great achievement but take perspective...

In terms of lions tours AUS is the easiest place to tour and win....

I would say NZ and SA are on a par in terms of prestige.... AUS comes quite far back in 3rd place. 97 was a far more remarkable achievement.

Back to back 71 and 74 and being so close to drawing in 77.... That was the greatest achievement by far.

My point was Lions tours are generally not won...now we're talking about how won that was won could have been lost...go figure.

71 and 74 rate by far the best Lions tours of all time. Really long tours, near unbeaten in all the tour matches- 77 rates highly there with only one from 20 odd non tests won. lost I mean...

74 was the pinnacle- one very dominant and impressive side. 71 they could have drawn at a pinch, but 74 was for me the greatest NH side ever- possibly until the 03 Eng side.

Those two sides had individual players that were far superior to their SH counterparts right through the sides. Wouldnt say that about any team since, including the 03 side.

Taylorman wrote:My point was Lions tours are generally not won...now we're talking about how won that was won could have been lost...go figure.

Well, if you want to do stats on it, you could say Lions tours aren't generally won, as you're correct, Lions have lost more than they've won.

Now get more microscopic on the stats and isolate Australia into it's own record strand against the Lions.  What comes up?

Lions won 7 tours to Australia's 2
Lions won 17 games to Australia's 6

So,you see - extract Australia from the general Lions list and which is the more general result of Lions v Australia encounters?

That's if we're going to do it the history way.  I think it's best just take each tour at a time, it allows coaches to take the plaudits of wins without people reminding them how relatively easy the task is, historically speaking.

fair enough...I dont tend to count Oz rugby for any match prior to the 3rd test at Eden park in 1978- the birth of Oz as a rugby superpower. Before that they were anyone's.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unpopular? Controversial? Courageous...

Maybe, but ushering a Lions side to a record victory and first series win if the professional era marks him as the greatest Lions coach ever.

1997 was in the professional era.

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Of course, of course. It's all about the players ignoring the silly coach. Yawn.

It's like England in 2007 GE, you remember, when we made the final despite being 'the worst defending champions ever'. The players started to call the shots (i.e. revert back to 10 man rugby). A top tournament I think you'll agree.

You're right though, it's always the coach driving the team on. Just look at France in 2011...

Totally agree, you hit the nail smack on the head!
Every game of rugby that has taken place and will take place must strike an analogy with England's prehistoric success, lets neither forget every coach MUST and i stress MUST be compared but always put below Sir Clive Woodward.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Of course, of course. It's all about the players ignoring the silly coach. Yawn.

It's like England in 2007 GE, you remember, when we made the final despite being 'the worst defending champions ever'. The players started to call the shots (i.e. revert back to 10 man rugby). A top tournament I think you'll agree.

You're right though, it's always the coach driving the team on. Just look at France in 2011...

Totally agree, you hit the nail smack on the head!
Every game of rugby that has taken place and will take place must strike an analogy with England's prehistoric success, lets neither forget every coach MUST and i stress MUST be compared but always put below Sir Clive Woodward.

How true...we followed that rule in '05. We had SCW well below SCW...oh...hang on...?

Taylorman wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Of course, of course. It's all about the players ignoring the silly coach. Yawn.

It's like England in 2007 GE, you remember, when we made the final despite being 'the worst defending champions ever'. The players started to call the shots (i.e. revert back to 10 man rugby). A top tournament I think you'll agree.

You're right though, it's always the coach driving the team on. Just look at France in 2011...

Totally agree, you hit the nail smack on the head!
Every game of rugby that has taken place and will take place must strike an analogy with England's prehistoric success, lets neither forget every coach MUST and i stress MUST be compared but always put below Sir Clive Woodward.

How true...we followed that rule in '05. We had SCW well below SCW...oh...hang on...?

 The problem of having to pick a team full of other country's duds...all 300 of them  

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unpopular? Controversial? Courageous...

Maybe, but ushering a Lions side to a record victory and first series win if the professional era marks him as the greatest Lions coach ever.

Not as long as he has a hole in his arse. Luckiest, now there he is in with a chance.

I'm sorry but that doesn't even make any sense.

dragonbreath wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Unpopular? Controversial? Courageous...

Maybe, but ushering a Lions side to a record victory and first series win if the professional era marks him as the greatest Lions coach ever.

Not as long as he has a hole in his arse. Luckiest, now there he is in with a chance.

Think its about when he fell off the ladder.