Gatland blasts critics...good on ya Gats

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22679/Gatland-blasts-critics

Back home for you Gats, if they can't respect ya, we've plenty of teams that will.

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As well he should. A lot of the criticism was out of order, particularly whoever the lowlife was who created a hanging image. I've been pretty vocal to people about how petty people were with the Wions and Gatlandball nonsense. I understand why people want to debate things like selection etc, but there's ways of doing it.

As I might've mentioned on here (did elsewhere anyway), for all he gets criticised for his words, he was bang on to say the Australians might not be as emotionally there and it's a nice touch what he said about Alex Corbisiero.

Reading the article he really doesn't blast anyone, simply expresses disappointment. When you wrote 'blasts' I was thinking bolld and guts. Maybe Gatland is a gentler soul than I.

blasts was the heading doc...

What gets me is he's been robbed of the moment- to share one of lifes genuine moments of success.

And how ironic that it all came from those wanting the same result as he worked so hard for. Wouldnt go on about it but over the last week we had to endure on this site post after post of Gatland this BOD that...endless dribble about who does Gatland think he is etc.

Anyway, its over now.
A whole bunch of Lions fans fret and spit all week...then get to wake up all happy at the end of it.

All is forgiven Gats...we love you...we're sorry...

 

Taylor you were one of his biggest critics. I hope he remains with Wales for the next 10 years. He has always had his critics because he say's it as it is and does not fanny about with the media. Prone to mind games which most of the time brought him the victories. Lions apart the psychological impact this victory would have brought to the Welsh lads may now push them forward in playing SH teams. As I have said elsewhere Warran's CV is better than Ted's apart from the world cup....and let's be honest if the NZ public had had their way after 2007 he would not have won that!!

I have been neither here nor there with Gatland. I wasnt part of the pseudo lynch mob of last week thats for sure. Ok in being a critic and for Gats to come out himself and say hes had to say the least 'a hard time' suggests what happened on this site was widespread.

Not many would be saying 10 years had that score been reversed yesterday thats for sure. Anyway, why would he want to do that?

Henry won far more than the world cup. Theres the other 90 odd tests he also won. The two are chalk and cheese when it comes to international success. Gats is a beginner in this game and everyone knows this is a stepping stone-he needs to coach sxv before achieving his number one goal...AB coach. You might disagree with that but those are the facts, and he knows it.

Based on the way he handled both the selection and the plethora of fickle Lions fans will go up in the estimation of those here.

I suppose by home you mean Wales? He has plenty of respect here and I can assure you the WRU would happpily extend his contract beyond the next World Cup. We know very well what we've got and that's the best coach in the world.

The next extension will be expensive though and I imagin the major interest will be in France.

Wonder if Oz will put dibs in for Gats? Might be a vacancy there soon.

Judging from some of the comments posted to the Irish Times site, I don't get the impression the series win will completely silence Gatland's critics in Ireland, Although I see Keith Wood almost immediately voiced regret about the way he had reacted to the selection announcement.

It was a no-win situation. Lose the match, and Gatland would have been attacked on all sides. Come away victorious, and there are still those who are even more aggrieved that BOD was denied a chance to contribute on the pitch.

I wonder whether the tour DVD will feature any selection meetings. Woodward said before the match that Davies might use his left boot more, and he did put in some deft touches. Campese praised that aspect of his play and wondered where it had been all tour.

Good article...! Gatland seems to have been very affected by the criticism he received.

Justifiably so...!

Not just social media but the regulated media too. Stuart Barnes was ridiculous and single minded in his opinions on this team. Constantly barracking on about the recent Welsh record vs The Aussies...!

He should of remembered how those Welsh lads like to finish. They showed well in the Six Nations.

I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

I think he's just desperately trying to avoid looking like he relished dropping O'Driscoll, or appearing all superior about the decision he made. Everyone saw his reaction to the tries in the coaches' box, so I don't think it's completely true of him to say that he didn't get any pleasure out of it, but it's his way of making sure he doesn't look like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1UWPagjNaA

Maybe thomh, maybe.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

Why should he? he has/had far more to lose than all his knockers. I would also say that by the time the team was announced (I think it was on the Wednesday afternoon) he would have already completed several training and whiteboard sessions with the "lineup". By the time team was announced and all the precious ones got on their high horses, Gatland was at the final stages of his preparations.

Just between you and me I think he will be well satisfied with the victory, but dont tell anyone.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

I saw Keith Wood's comment, great bloke. Barnes seemed very quiet in commentary, until the win was in the bag, from what I remember yesterday. It was more the naysaying non apologists of 606V2 I was commenting on.

Everyone has a right to opinion, but admitting you were wrong and others were right takes a bit more... Also learning from the experience.

We have seen similar negative, un-praising voices, on here and in the published media deride and belittle the achievements of the same two coaches and group of players that have now been the key element in a RWC Semi Final, a GS, a consecutive Six Nations win and now the Lions tour of Oz.

Maybe now is time to say, "hey I was completely wrong and feel a bit of a pillock, these guys are really good".

He still has a lot to answer, that the current euphoria is masking. i.e howcome we only had 40 min of the game plan? what the Frak was he thinking or doing in the second test! What sort of brain fart happened in the tars game(backs whos had met 24-48 hours before and the most powderpuff pack he could pick) We some how won the first test with no plan at all being shown(GN moment of indivudual brilliance i cannot think was a Howley planned move) And on Howley what was his input? as for 2.5 tests i dont think we had a clue how to attack! his selections have been bizzare to say the least

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

A great result and a great win to be sure. As a Lions fan I am delighted & very hung over this morning. That does NOT mean I think Gatland was right in all his selections and he made mistakes. Philips for one was an awful decision.

maestegmafia wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

I saw Keith Wood's comment, great bloke. Barnes seemed very quiet in commentary, until the win was in the bag, from what I remember yesterday. It was more the naysaying non apologists of 606V2 I was commenting on.

Everyone has a right to opinion, but admitting you were wrong and others were right takes a bit more... Also learning from the experience.

We have seen similar negative, un-praising voices, on here and in the published media deride and belittle the achievements of the same two coaches and group of players that have now been the key element in a RWC Semi Final, a GS, a consecutive Six Nations win and now the Lions tour of Oz.

 I don't see that maes.   The vast majority of people who were up in arms on here have come out since and held their hands up too.  In the main people on here had the following issues (notwithstanding the BOD argument)...

1. That the team was not representative of the 4 Nations (no scots and 10 Welsh)
2. That the style of play was not what we wanted to see.

Those are valid opinions, and even having won they still hold depending on where your issue with point 1 was.  if your issue was that the best players were not selected, then you have been proven wrong.  if your argument was to do with the ethos of the Lions and you don't believe that winning is an essential element to a Lions tour, then that opinion still holds.

Look, Gatland and the team did the business.  I don't believe that the criticism from pundits pre game actually had that much of an affect on any of the coaching staff.  It may have spurred players like Roberts and Davies on, which is great, but actually as somebody else has stated, Gatland is now in the great position where he could afford to be magnanimous, safe in the knowledge that he got the job done, his way.

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

The thing is (and I kinda alluded to this before the game took place)...and I've been talking endlessly about my belief in this all week;  Gatland didn't need to be proven right.  

He always had 'right' in his locker .... and I always believed he had right in his locker.  As far back as when he was first chosen, I said if the Lions don't win this series easily then I'd be very surprised because of the talent at Gatland's disposal really is some of the best the NH has ever had at the one moment in time.  Athletic, super fit, skillful, battlehardened by hard-as-nails European rugby, where many SH player now play - everything.  

My point, and proof is back in my posts that it's not a new point based on hindsight, is that Gatland had 'right' available to him for all three tests.  He didn't need smokescreens.  He didn't need to try an make Australia expect another limited kick-away, penalty taking game.  Didn't need it.  Australia were never hard or smart enough up front to worry this Lions squad had they decided to do a Last Test performance in all three tests.

People may disagree with that and talk about him not being able to get the balance he wanted to get the running, highly aggressive game going.  I don't and never have believed it.  I think he's always had a master card gameplan...we've seen him use it often enough before.  It didn't need to be hidden from the Aussies.  There is nothing they had that could ever have resisted it.

So, when you believe something like that (and I do) it does get a little frustrating that he felt the need to do so much theatre on it and then draw a lot of the drama onto himself by suggesting one player choice was the difference between slick as lighting, absolutely dominant in all departments rugby and the other stuff they were bluffing the Aussies with for the first two tests... coming dangerously close to getting turned over in the process.

A lot more will be talked about this tour in the years to come.  And much more detail about planning and attitudes and words spoken by whom to whom etc.  A much more complete picture will emerge about what Gatland really felt about each test, what he really wanted from each test etc.  When we get the more complete picture, we'll be able to have a more complete view of all the , in my view, needless drama.

Sometimes I think you guys put a bit too much emphasis on the selection, as opposed to what the selector is trying to get the selected players to do.

I reckon. Way too much analysis and not enough on the field. Last week there must have been 50 versions or opinions on why the losing try was scored in the second test, that is outside the number of BOD posts.. This week the team just got on with it, did the damage, and will move on.

With the exception of Phillips and Lydiate, the selections seemed fine to me. Roberts was a gamble yet his partnership with Davies never saw them shown up in defence and though BOD would've done the same job at least that area was not exposed. On attack I don't think it proved any different because for much of the game the tactics were similar. As much as Corbs should be praised for his scrummage display, it should be pointed out that Ausralia clawed their way back to 19 - 16 and the Lions with an extra man were unable to find points.

Halfpenny's contributions of running the ball back should not be underestimated. To me it was THE key moment in turning the tide towards the Lions. Australia had momentum and but for Faletau's turnover could well have taken the lead. Those two tries to Sexton and North destroyed Australia psychologically. Roberts' try was simply icing on the cake. The damage had already been done by Halfpenny. Was he instructed to do that by Gatland or did he decide to do that in that moment?

The important thing for Gatland is that he has won the series. He has achieved what many other coaches have not. It's been a fascinating series and at the same time a frustrating one. I don't think yesterday's results should deflect the genuine criticisms of the first two tests but ultimately they should silence the over-the-top criticism he faced. He won 2 - 1 and really we are arguing what could he have done better than what he should've done to avoid defeat.

Taylorman wrote:I reckon. Way too much analysis and not enough on the field. Last week there must have been 50 versions or opinions on why the losing try was scored in the second test, that is outside the number of BOD posts.. This week the team just got on with it, did the damage, and will move on.

Exactly. Too much needless drama... from fans yes... but also from needless (better get these selections right!) melodrama from Lions coaching team. Just get on with it. Get on with the gameplan any wise gamewatcher always knew was there.

Am i right in thinking that deep down, the win feels grubby because the coach was a kiwi? Especially with the likes of that knobhead Barnes who has a superiority complex. Sounds like the feeling is that the Lions won in spite of Gatland. To be fair, Oz were woeful so maybe this was the case. In saying that, I'd be dissapointed to if I was Gatland but I have no sympathy for him, serves him right for being a NH mercenary. Of course, that all changes when he inevitably comes home. Maybe this distasteful experience will be fuel on the fire?

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

I saw Keith Wood's comment, great bloke. Barnes seemed very quiet in commentary, until the win was in the bag, from what I remember yesterday. It was more the naysaying non apologists of 606V2 I was commenting on.

Everyone has a right to opinion, but admitting you were wrong and others were right takes a bit more... Also learning from the experience.

We have seen similar negative, un-praising voices, on here and in the published media deride and belittle the achievements of the same two coaches and group of players that have now been the key element in a RWC Semi Final, a GS, a consecutive Six Nations win and now the Lions tour of Oz.

 I don't see that maes.   The vast majority of people who were up in arms on here have come out since and held their hands up too.  In the main people on here had the following issues (notwithstanding the BOD argument)...

1. That the team was not representative of the 4 Nations (no scots and 10 Welsh)
2. That the style of play was not what we wanted to see.

Those are valid opinions, and even having won they still hold depending on where your issue with point 1 was.  if your issue was that the best players were not selected, then you have been proven wrong.  if your argument was to do with the ethos of the Lions and you don't believe that winning is an essential element to a Lions tour, then that opinion still holds.

Look, Gatland and the team did the business.  I don't believe that the criticism from pundits pre game actually had that much of an affect on any of the coaching staff.  It may have spurred players like Roberts and Davies on, which is great, but actually as somebody else has stated, Gatland is now in the great position where he could afford to be magnanimous, safe in the knowledge that he got the job done, his way.

As you may be aware I simply do not get this "representative" nonsense.Are you seriously wanting quotas ahead of results?
For me the Lions should be the best players picked from all 4 Home Nations based on merit.I apologise if I have got this wrong.Once we start picking token players I for one will have nothing more to do with the Lions.
To deny the players selected the pride of being deemed the best of the best would be shameful and would render the whole exercise pointless.
As to the question of style of play we now have professional Rugby and the W is the priority and the coach is charged with attaining this in the most efficient manner.If anyone deems that establishing forward dominance to unleash powerful back play with the support of an accurate kicker is somehow wrong I would be all ears for their explanation.

perhaps...and it worked for Henry, who went on to be the best coach in history. Bet Gatland can't wait to get out of there.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

I saw Keith Wood's comment, great bloke. Barnes seemed very quiet in commentary, until the win was in the bag, from what I remember yesterday. It was more the naysaying non apologists of 606V2 I was commenting on.

Everyone has a right to opinion, but admitting you were wrong and others were right takes a bit more... Also learning from the experience.

We have seen similar negative, un-praising voices, on here and in the published media deride and belittle the achievements of the same two coaches and group of players that have now been the key element in a RWC Semi Final, a GS, a consecutive Six Nations win and now the Lions tour of Oz.

 I don't see that maes.   The vast majority of people who were up in arms on here have come out since and held their hands up too.  In the main people on here had the following issues (notwithstanding the BOD argument)...

1. That the team was not representative of the 4 Nations (no scots and 10 Welsh)
2. That the style of play was not what we wanted to see.

Those are valid opinions, and even having won they still hold depending on where your issue with point 1 was.  if your issue was that the best players were not selected, then you have been proven wrong.  if your argument was to do with the ethos of the Lions and you don't believe that winning is an essential element to a Lions tour, then that opinion still holds.

Look, Gatland and the team did the business.  I don't believe that the criticism from pundits pre game actually had that much of an affect on any of the coaching staff.  It may have spurred players like Roberts and Davies on, which is great, but actually as somebody else has stated, Gatland is now in the great position where he could afford to be magnanimous, safe in the knowledge that he got the job done, his way.

As you may be aware I simply do not get this "representative" nonsense.Are you seriously wanting quotas ahead of results?
For me the Lions should be the best players picked from all 4 Home Nations based on merit.I apologise if I have got this wrong.Once we start picking token players I for one will have nothing more to do with the Lions.
To deny the players selected the pride of being deemed the best of the best would be shameful and would render the whole exercise pointless.
As to the question of style of play we now have professional Rugby and the W is the priority and the coach is charged with attaining this in the most efficient manner.If anyone deems that establishing forward dominance to unleash powerful back play with the support of an accurate kicker is somehow wrong I would be all ears for their explanation.

Really you obviously dont see the abuse sarries get for playing that gameplan

It seems a large amount of people felt entitled that BOD should play in the deciding tests regardless of game plan, tactics, form and so forth.

Knackeredknees wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I wish Gatland could have been the bigger man here. He won the series, he is a winner he could have afforded to be magnanimous.

So far he has told the press he "is not gloating about dropping O'Driscoll" and how he cannot enjoy the victory because people were mean to him. Feels like he wants to get payback.

What is more surprising is the amount of people who fail to say, "I was wrong he was right", and learn from the experience in the future.

 To be fair maes, from what I've seen most of the more vociferous naysayers have come out after the win and held their hands up.  I believe Barnes made the comment along the lines of "what a great day to be wrong."  Keith Wood has also said he went way over the top in his own criticism.

I saw Keith Wood's comment, great bloke. Barnes seemed very quiet in commentary, until the win was in the bag, from what I remember yesterday. It was more the naysaying non apologists of 606V2 I was commenting on.

Everyone has a right to opinion, but admitting you were wrong and others were right takes a bit more... Also learning from the experience.

We have seen similar negative, un-praising voices, on here and in the published media deride and belittle the achievements of the same two coaches and group of players that have now been the key element in a RWC Semi Final, a GS, a consecutive Six Nations win and now the Lions tour of Oz.

 I don't see that maes.   The vast majority of people who were up in arms on here have come out since and held their hands up too.  In the main people on here had the following issues (notwithstanding the BOD argument)...

1. That the team was not representative of the 4 Nations (no scots and 10 Welsh)
2. That the style of play was not what we wanted to see.

Those are valid opinions, and even having won they still hold depending on where your issue with point 1 was.  if your issue was that the best players were not selected, then you have been proven wrong.  if your argument was to do with the ethos of the Lions and you don't believe that winning is an essential element to a Lions tour, then that opinion still holds.

Look, Gatland and the team did the business.  I don't believe that the criticism from pundits pre game actually had that much of an affect on any of the coaching staff.  It may have spurred players like Roberts and Davies on, which is great, but actually as somebody else has stated, Gatland is now in the great position where he could afford to be magnanimous, safe in the knowledge that he got the job done, his way.

As you may be aware I simply do not get this "representative" nonsense.Are you seriously wanting quotas ahead of results?
For me the Lions should be the best players picked from all 4 Home Nations based on merit.I apologise if I have got this wrong.Once we start picking token players I for one will have nothing more to do with the Lions.
To deny the players selected the pride of being deemed the best of the best would be shameful and would render the whole exercise pointless.
As to the question of style of play we now have professional Rugby and the W is the priority and the coach is charged with attaining this in the most efficient manner.If anyone deems that establishing forward dominance to unleash powerful back play with the support of an accurate kicker is somehow wrong I would be all ears for their explanation.

Really you obviously dont see the abuse sarries get for playing that gameplan

Thats because SA are "supposed" to play like that, same with England. Wales and Australia have this myth of them playing champagne rugby all the time, running the ball from everywhere.

Taff.

I've not said I want quotas, but there are people who still hold a romanticised view of the Lions and want to see players of all 4 nations represented within both the tour party and the walk on side.  To some the Lions is a hark back to the amateur era and winning the series is not the priority.  Personally I want us to win, but I am prepared to to allow people to hold the above opinion if that is how they feel.

In relation to style of play, what you have described is what some people simplify as bosh, bosh, bosh rugby.  Without doubt in modern rugby you need power and the gainline battle has a huge bearing on the result.  However, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and whilst selecting big backs who can go through people can bring results, and did you yesterday, it does not always work.   There is a time and place where subtlety and cleverness will get you across the gainline, and I think that's what people saw as lacking in a number of the Lions performances.

IronMike wrote:It seems a large amount of people felt entitled that BOD should play in the deciding tests regardless of game plan, tactics, form and so forth.

They felt he wouldn't have hindered the game played yesterday... he plays a rapid version of it himself every week with Leinster. Pretty damn good at it too, with his buddy Sexton.

IronMike wrote:It seems a large amount of people felt entitled that BOD should play in the deciding tests regardless of game plan, tactics, form and so forth.

thats obvious...and its not that they shouldnt voice their opinions...its the full in your face gatland treatment- the 100,000 signups to save the whale that must have directly contributed to hampering gatlands preparation if you read between the lines from Gatlands very watered down comments. Love to know what he really thought of them.

One day we'll get the real version over a beer in a local Waikato pub.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Taff.

I've not said I want quotas, but there are people who still hold a romanticised view of the Lions and want to see players of all 4 nations represented within both the tour party and the walk on side.  To some the Lions is a hark back to the amateur era and winning the series is not the priority.  Personally I want us to win, but I am prepared to to allow people to hold the above opinion if that is how they feel.

In relation to style of play, what you have described is what some people simplify as bosh, bosh, bosh rugby.  Without doubt in modern rugby you need power and the gainline battle has a huge bearing on the result.  However, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and whilst selecting big backs who can go through people can bring results, and did you yesterday, it does not always work.   There is a time and place where subtlety and cleverness will get you across the gainline, and I think that's what people saw as lacking in a number of the Lions performances.

I cannot relate to the concept of playing sport unless you want to win.That sounds more like a hobby.
I have watched oodles of NH Rugby over the last 4 years and Razzle Dazzle has been in short supply in the NH.I am unclear how WG could force an unfamiar style of play onto the players just to appease a few old romantics.I would love us to play with flair and panache but our top players do not fit that mold.Hopefully players like Wade,Madigan etc will peak in four years time and we will have that style available in NZ.

I think that's the point people were making Taff.  The selected squad contained 4 big centres and a couple of big wingers in North and Cuthbert.  I was one who pre tour spoke about variety and an ability to play different ways, and raised somebody like Matt Scott as a centre who distributes well and has flair and looks for gaps as somebody who I felt should have been in the squad.

My view is that Gatland went to Aus with a plan.  Call it direct rugby, call it Gatlandball, call it what you will, but it involved power and using big men to punish the Aussies.  What I think happened is that in the early tour games he lost a couple of key cogs in the machine, and what we saw in tests 1 and 2 were a diluted version where we tried to play the selected gameplan, but with the wrong personnel for the job (which I dubbed Gatlandball Lite).  

In the aftermath of test 2 I said I hoped he picked the biggest, heaviest side he could for the decider, as it was the only way his gameplan would work (I had Tuilagi partnering Roberts in midfield).  My opinion at the team announcement was that Gatland had pretty much decided the same, and he picked a team to be fully committed to the style he wanted.  It worked.

What it proved to me is that in sport, as in life, if you are going to do something, then fully commit to it and you'll succeed.  Give it anything less, and glorious failure will be yours.

I find it quite amusing that certain posters on here are still trying to justify their down right out of order comments on here prior to yesterdays game. I am not going to name names, but you all know who you are, and it is now about time that the majority of people on here who were up in arms that the god that is Brian O'Driscoll was dropped, and that there were no Scottish players in the starting 15 and that the style Gatland likes to play is all wrong,should eat a lot of humble pie, well 41-16 was a fair reflection on the game and I cannot remember when the Aussies last lost by that amount at home.

I would suggest that people watch what was unfolding infront of their eyes at the and of the game yesterday, and during it where we had people from all over Great Britain and Ireland singing Hyms and Arias and Swing Low and Flower of Scotland ect and then the players hugging each other, Adam Jones praising Corbisiero, Alyn Wyn Jones's interview at the end, where he said that he went to Australia to represent FOUR countries, the Lions ethos is definitely alive and kicking, Welsh,Scottish,English or Irish, they were all out there together as one, then we had bigoted people on these boards and other social networks claiming that the Lions were dead and perhaps they should cease to exist blah,blah,blah. I just hope that people can learn from this and take a look at the world around us, WE ARE THE LIONS, British and Irish, and I was swelling with pride yesterday, the same as I do when I see our brave men and women out in the middle east, it is time for people to start to take a look at themselves and I hope that they are not so narrow minded next time something in life does not go the way they want it to.

LordDowlais wrote:I find it quite amusing that certain posters on here are still trying to justify their down right out of order comments on here prior to yesterdays game. I am not going to name names, but you all know who you are, and it is now about time that the majority of people on here who were up in arms that the god that is Brian O'Driscoll was dropped, and that there were no Scottish players in the starting 15 and that the style Gatland likes to play is all wrong,should eat a lot of humble pie, well 41-16 was a fair reflection on the game and I cannot remember when the Aussies last lost by that amount at home.

I would suggest that people watch what was unfolding infront of their eyes at the and of the game yesterday, and during it where we had people from all over Great Britain and Ireland singing Hyms and Arias and Swing Low and Flower of Scotland ect and then the players hugging each other, Adam Jones praising Corbisiero, Alyn Wyn Jones's interview at the end, where he said that he went to Australia to represent FOUR countries, the Lions ethos is definitely alive and kicking, Welsh,Scottish,English or Irish, they were all out there together as one, then we had bigoted people on these boards and other social networks claiming that the Lions were dead and perhaps they should cease to exist blah,blah,blah. I just hope that people can learn from this and take a look at the world around us, WE ARE THE LIONS, British and Irish, and I was swelling with pride yesterday, the same as I do when I see our brave men and women out in the middle east, it is time for people to start to take a look at themselves and I hope that they are not so narrow minded next time something in life does not go the way they want it to.

 good calll...now for the 'but's...

LordDowlais wrote:I find it quite amusing that certain posters on here are still trying to justify their down right out of order comments on here prior to yesterdays game. I am not going to name names, but you all know who you are, and it is now about time that the majority of people on here who were up in arms that the god that is Brian O'Driscoll was dropped, and that there were no Scottish players in the starting 15 and that the style Gatland likes to play is all wrong,should eat a lot of humble pie, well 41-16 was a fair reflection on the game and I cannot remember when the Aussies last lost by that amount at home.

I would suggest that people watch what was unfolding infront of their eyes at the and of the game yesterday, and during it where we had people from all over Great Britain and Ireland singing Hyms and Arias and Swing Low and Flower of Scotland ect and then the players hugging each other, Adam Jones praising Corbisiero, Alyn Wyn Jones's interview at the end, where he said that he went to Australia to represent FOUR countries, the Lions ethos is definitely alive and kicking, Welsh,Scottish,English or Irish, they were all out there together as one, then we had bigoted people on these boards and other social networks claiming that the Lions were dead and perhaps they should cease to exist blah,blah,blah. I just hope that people can learn from this and take a look at the world around us, WE ARE THE LIONS, British and Irish, and I was swelling with pride yesterday, the same as I do when I see our brave men and women out in the middle east, it is time for people to start to take a look at themselves and I hope that they are not so narrow minded next time something in life does not go the way they want it to.

Name names.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I find it quite amusing that certain posters on here are still trying to justify their down right out of order comments on here prior to yesterdays game. I am not going to name names, but you all know who you are, and it is now about time that the majority of people on here who were up in arms that the god that is Brian O'Driscoll was dropped, and that there were no Scottish players in the starting 15 and that the style Gatland likes to play is all wrong,should eat a lot of humble pie, well 41-16 was a fair reflection on the game and I cannot remember when the Aussies last lost by that amount at home.

I would suggest that people watch what was unfolding infront of their eyes at the and of the game yesterday, and during it where we had people from all over Great Britain and Ireland singing Hyms and Arias and Swing Low and Flower of Scotland ect and then the players hugging each other, Adam Jones praising Corbisiero, Alyn Wyn Jones's interview at the end, where he said that he went to Australia to represent FOUR countries, the Lions ethos is definitely alive and kicking, Welsh,Scottish,English or Irish, they were all out there together as one, then we had bigoted people on these boards and other social networks claiming that the Lions were dead and perhaps they should cease to exist blah,blah,blah. I just hope that people can learn from this and take a look at the world around us, WE ARE THE LIONS, British and Irish, and I was swelling with pride yesterday, the same as I do when I see our brave men and women out in the middle east, it is time for people to start to take a look at themselves and I hope that they are not so narrow minded next time something in life does not go the way they want it to.

Name names.

Why ? Do you enjoy the bickering that goes on, on this site ?  

No, I enjoy people putting names to criticsims so that the un-named names have right to reply.

You make accusations of out-of-order comments before the game. Name names...and find the comments.

I should not have to fly, people know what they have said, and are now strangley quiet on here, perhaps you could go through your own posting history on here from the last few days over the whole BOD debacle and we could start from there.

I'd love to have a look at the Faletau turnover when the score was 19 - 16. I didn't have a problem with the turnover but Faletau was tackled and Mowen was standing right over him and he was isolated. Somehow Faletau holds on and the ball comes out wide and the Lions escape down the left flank. Would be interested in seeing that again as my first impression was that it seemed like holding on and a penalty there would've squared up the match.

Irrelevant I suppose really as it didn't get blown up and the Lions won fair and square. But it is interesting to see soon after that phase Halfpenny makes the crucial break to set up Sexton. How much of that confidence play can be attributed to the psychological boost from holding out the Aussies on their line? I always like looking back at key moments of a match in terms of the psychology of it all. I certainly don't want people to think that it's sour grapes and Australia should've won. I was very happy to see the Lions win and the manner in which they did it. I just mean to say it was a key moment in the context of the match.

Yesterday saw the high of the Lions scrum see saw to the Aussies finally vindicated for not going for 3 on the stroke of half time added to the boost of holding out the Lions with one man down and surviving at scrum time with Kepu on. Then Lions defence holding out Australia at 19 - 16 and the killer psychological blows of Halfpenny setting up Sexton and North and Roberts to put the icing on the cake. An intriguing series of psychological highs and lows and the final score doesn't really indicate how close it was for much of the match.

LordDowlais wrote:I should not have to fly, people know what they have said, and are now strangley quiet on here, perhaps you could go through your own posting history on here from the last few days over the whole BOD debacle and we could start from there.

I'd stand by every word I've said since I ever started posting here - plus the older 606. That's how confident I am in everything I say  

You want to find a post I'd be ashamed of then go find it.  I wish you luck.  If you can't find a post that I wouldn't equally back up today, then maybe you should go to the next un-named offender on your list.

And maybe you could ask Taylorman, who agrees with your post, what I said in the immediate moments before the game...or any of my comments before the game yesterday, when we had our SH colleagues here not giving the Lions too much hope.

Do your research and then slide in your non-named accusations. Or do you just like bickering at shadows?

Sorry LD, but if you are going to get on your soap box and sound off, then you need to name names.

Having said that, why feel the need to come out and post that anyway.  As I have said the majority of people who were crucifying Gatland pre game have come out and said they were wrong, and those that haven't, are they really worth the effort?

What a lot of nonsense being spouted. Gat's has had his feelings hurt, and he's in a strop, and can't enjoy the result now because of all those nasty things those nasty people said. Rubbish. Gat's loves it, and if he genuinely doesn't then his reaction in the box to a try yesterday is a massive contradiction.
Winning the game yesterday doesn't make his selections right. We could have lost the series, but somehow managed to pull off a win we didn't deserve in the first, and so would have lost the series before the third test.
Maybe Gat's is still playing his mind games, and setting the stage for his return to SH rugby. Just to get away from all those nasty people of course.....

Let 'em have it Gats!

I saw more bile in some posts than I was aware was even in the game as a whole. Good riddance.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Sorry LD, but if you are going to get on your soap box and sound off, then you need to name names.

Having said that, why feel the need to come out and post that anyway.  As I have said the majority of people who were crucifying Gatland pre game have come out and said they were wrong, and those that haven't, are they really worth the effort?

Look, why do you insist on having a bun fight on here ? Just take a look at the endless BOD articles and the the article written by our Scottish brethren on here, I have only seen one post on here from RR saying he was wrong, and I have not seen any others putting there hands up, I am not going to trawl through hundreds of threads a cut and paste them, but we have all been reading this site over the last few days so you should know who I am talking about.

Munchkin wrote:..Gat's has had his feelings hurt, and now he's in a strop, and can't enjoy the result now because of all those nasty things those nasty people said. Rubbish. Gat's loves it...

On Talksport this morning, they were saying that Gatland's family had come under attack. If true, that would have been a lot more disturbing for the man.

LordDowlais wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Sorry LD, but if you are going to get on your soap box and sound off, then you need to name names.

Having said that, why feel the need to come out and post that anyway.  As I have said the majority of people who were crucifying Gatland pre game have come out and said they were wrong, and those that haven't, are they really worth the effort?

Look, why do you insist on having a bun fight on here ? Just take a look at the endless BOD articles and the the article written by our Scottish brethren on here, I have only seen one post on here from RR saying he was wrong, and I have not seen any others putting there hands up, I am not going to trawl through hundreds of threads a cut and paste them, but we have all been reading this site over the last few days so you should know who I am talking about.

 So you rock up, start calling people out saying they should apologise but won't say who, and accuse me of wanting a bun fight.  Wow.


Seriously people need to grow up on here.  Some people were right before the test, some people were wrong and some were somewhere in between.  Why the need for apologies and dragging it up now.  We won, be happy, be proud, and just let the rest go.