clues golfers

I know ive posted a few times on here about rules, but ... at the risk of ridicule...

Whats the most stupid rule anyone has tried to state to you as absolute fact ?

Ive had quite a few recently, by some low handicap golfers who I would have thought would have at least read the rules.
Im not talking about complicated things ..

I was instructed that the pin position on some of the holes at the weekend were 'illegal', as they were too close to the edge of the green. He even offered to show me the rule when we got in, 8ft is the minimum apparently.
I was a bit confused .. what was the penalty to be and to whom should it apply ? should i penalise myself for holing out in an illegal hole ?

Also had someone insist that when re-hitting a lost tee shot, it should be dropped on the tee, and you could not use a tee peg.

I just laughed at them. didnt help the ambience!

busted wrote:Also had someone insist that when re-hitting a lost tee shot, it should be dropped on the tee, and you could not use a tee peg.

What an eegit.

I can't remember a stupid/incorrect rule quoted at me. To be honest, some of the genuine rules seem to be the most stupid. Penalty drop out of a flooded bunker springs to mind

I thought the pin position thing was 6 feet, but I've never believed it to be a rule of golf. Like having 2 club lengths behind the tee markers it's probably derived from a rule (2 club lengths is the maximum you're allowed to go under the rule, so people put 2+2 together and think that the rules therefore state that there must be that much room available).

I remember playing in a comp once and one of my playing partners also continually complained about illegal pin positions. Once because it was too close to the edge of the green and a couple of times because the pins were too close to slopes or tiers. He even laid his putter on the ground to measure the distance. To be fair he had a point about silly pin positions, there was one green where you had to hole the putt or it would roll 15 feet away because it was on the crest of a hump, but the rant about "illegal" pins made me smile.

The other one was the guy who thought that moving a leaf on a practice swing incurred a penalty (although I guess technically this could be a penalty if it improves your stance / line)

One mistake that seems to be very common is players being rather adamant that you can drop at a nearest point of relief - whatever that might be? - when taking an unplayable.

Perhaps confused with removing a leaf (from a tree) on a practice swing, which I think is a penalty if it's on or near the path or your intended swing when you make a stroke. Otherwise leaves are loose impediments which can be removed unless in a hazard.

McLaren wrote:One mistake that seems to be very common is players being rather adamant that you can drop at a nearest point of relief - whatever that might be? - when taking an unplayable.

Yes - see this one quite often. In fact had it on Saturday.. poor guy was crestfallen when I told him it was two club lengths no nearer the hole, back on a line between that point and the hole or, lastly (and this was the only one that worked), go back and hit from where you last hit from. He did this and put it into the same unplayable lie.

I've come across a couple of people who think when you knock it into the whins, you can take a drop 2 club lengths from the edge of the whins rather than where your ball rests.

shclaff wrote:

busted wrote:Also had someone insist that when re-hitting a lost tee shot, it should be dropped on the tee, and you could not use a tee peg.

What an eegit.

I can't remember a stupid/incorrect rule quoted at me. To be honest, some of the genuine rules seem to be the most stupid. Penalty drop out of a flooded bunker springs to mind

Dropping out of a Flodded bunker IS a 1 shot penalty.(if the bunker is "in play"..............
If you can find a spot IN the bunker to drop, then there is no penalty.

 

John Cregan wrote:

shclaff wrote:

busted wrote:Also had someone insist that when re-hitting a lost tee shot, it should be dropped on the tee, and you could not use a tee peg.

What an eegit.

I can't remember a stupid/incorrect rule quoted at me. To be honest, some of the genuine rules seem to be the most stupid. Penalty drop out of a flooded bunker springs to mind

Dropping out of a Flodded bunker IS a 1 shot penalty.(if the bunker is "in play"..............
If you can find a spot IN the bunker to drop, then there is no penalty.

Sorry Schlaff, i get what you are saying now:doh: 

John Cregan wrote: 

John Cregan wrote:

shclaff wrote:

busted wrote:Also had someone insist that when re-hitting a lost tee shot, it should be dropped on the tee, and you could not use a tee peg.

What an eegit.

I can't remember a stupid/incorrect rule quoted at me. To be honest, some of the genuine rules seem to be the most stupid. Penalty drop out of a flooded bunker springs to mind

Dropping out of a Flodded bunker IS a 1 shot penalty.(if the bunker is "in play"..............
If you can find a spot IN the bunker to drop, then there is no penalty.

Sorry Schlaff, i get what you are saying now:doh: 

Apology accepted!  

SmithersJones wrote: Like having 2 club lengths behind the tee markers it's probably derived from a rule (2 club lengths is the maximum you're allowed to go under the rule, so people put 2+2 together and think that the rules therefore state that there must be that much room available).

Hmm are you saying that the teeing ground is the width between the tee markers and as far back as you want? I'm pretty sure it's only two club lengths back.

You're right INW, you're allowed to tee up up to 2 club lengths behind the markers but I think what SJ is referring to is when the markers are so close to the back of the tee box that two club lengths doesn't keep you on what has been designed as the tee box.

Aaah yes. Understood.

Over the years I've heard some real belters.

You can't have pin attended when your ball is off the green.
You can't use anything other than a putter on the green.
You can't use a putter if you aren't on the green.
There's a penalty for hitting your opponent's ball on the green (matchplay).
There's no penalty for hitting your partner's ball on the green (strokeplay).
A penalty shot in foursomes means you lose your turn to play and your partner goes again.
The rules of golf allow distance measuring devices.
It was going towards the pond so it must have gone in.

In addition to your points 3 & 4 george I have heard people claim that when both balls are on the green and player A takes a putt which hits player B's ball, it is player B who gets the penalty.

Ok I'll be the first to say it.....

So you CAN have the flag attended when off the green?!

and no-one takes being told they are wrong very well do they ! - as , like me, they are always convinced they are right all the time

I am right all the time.

Including the instances on the R&A Rules quizzes that I get wrong.

The bit about having two club lengths behind the "tombstone" was something that I think CONGU were trying to encourage golf clubs to introduce a couple of years ago. Unfortunately in many cases it would mean moving the "tombstones" two club lengths closer to the hole and having to change the yardages of the hole. Not sure what the current status of the "encouragement" is but I'm fairly sure it hasn't been universally adopted.

I've seen courses where the distance markers are so close to the back of the tee that you'd be hitting branches of trees if you teed it up there, let alone two club lengths behind.

Three yards doesn't matter. Just dig up the concrete marker and move it forward. Nobody will know.

"Three yards doesn't matter"

I'll tell my foursomes partner that when I leave him that far short after my first putt!!!

Agreed though, really annoying when the boxes are too close to the back/wall/trees to put the ball in the best place for stance/swing. We've got a couple and some days, even a few inches back from the markers your focus is on not hitting the wall with your club. Sometimes it comes from non-golfers being on the greenstaff.

Inappropriate pins for the same reason is another frustration! (if a little off topic)

"You can't have pin attended when your ball is off the green"

Good one George, i've heard this one a lot. I spent ages one round trying to explain to a guy that you could have it tended but if it was, the person tending HAD to remove it before the ball hit it. Painful!

Incidentally, i played in a fun comp at the weekend, 4BBB where you were playing the field rather than direct matchplay. The pair we were playing with were either ignorant of the rules or right cheaters!
On the very first hole one of them had a shot, his mate got down in 5 and he had taken 4 and picked his ball up (presumably forgetting he had a shot). On the walk to the 2nd he said to me "actually that was a 5 net 4 for me, i got a shot there". I asked him if he'd finished the hole and he said............. "no, but i could have". Needless to say he didn't get his net 4.
We get to the 2nd green and the same guy rolls a putt up to about a foot. His mate asks if we're going to give him that. I say in a match usually i would yes but as we're playing a comp and there are no gimmies - and i don't want to be disqualified if others see - then no he can't have it. He went on and on about speeding the game up.... How long does it take to knock in a small putt??
Then, near the end of the round, the first guy ends up under a tree in a horrid spot. He asks me what his options are and i tell him he's probably best off dropping 2 clubs length. He mate comes over and says "that won't get him out the rough as his ball is right up against the tree trunk". The drop would have got him out the rough but all the same i leave them to it. They decide to go back in a line from the flag and take a drop about 10 feet back and 10 feet right so the tree isn't in the line of the shot. He says "ok to drop here so that tree's not in the way?".................

There were 3 holes left and they had about 6 points between them so i let them get on with it but really?!!!?

Am I the only one who thinks not having 2 clublengths behind the tee markers IS a problem?  I'm no rules expert, but there have been a couple of occasions at my club where medals have been deemed non-qualifying because you couldn't take the full 2 clublengths behind the tee and still make a swing.  (Most notably, and embarrassingly, in the first round of this year's club championship where 2 clublengths behind the 8th tee put you in a bush.  Very poor by the greens staff and moronic by the individual who made the complaint.  Saved me 0.1 though!!)
 
The rule is stupid, but as far as my club are concerned, it's there and it does have an impact.

MPB - Wow.

That. is. amazing.

Surprised that mulligans weren't raised as a viable option.

4BBB for us tonight actually. Might try it...

Tiler76 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks not having 2 clublengths behind the tee markers IS a problem?  I'm no rules expert, but there have been a couple of occasions at my club where medals have been deemed non-qualifying because you couldn't take the full 2 clublengths behind the tee and still make a swing.  (Most notably, and embarrassingly, in the first round of this year's club championship where 2 clublengths behind the 8th tee put you in a bush.  Very poor by the greens staff and moronic by the individual who made the complaint.  Saved me 0.1 though!!)
 
The rule is stupid, but as far as my club are concerned, it's there and it does have an impact.

Really? can that happen?

What a sad state of affairs.

Mac - it did. On at least 2 occasions I know of, which makes it even more ridiculous that it could be allowed to happen again.

And yes, a very sad state of affairs.

By the way I meant it was sad the event was deemed non qualifying because of such a trifling matter, not that the there wasn't 2 clubs length behind the tee marker.

Why are golfers such a sad bunch of people?

I agree with you Mac.  It's pathetic that this can cause the biggest event of the year to be non-qualifying.  And it's not as if there wasn't plenty of teeing ground available, unless you're the pedant who stands there with his driver and measures out two clublengths.........
 
But given it's happened before, it's embarrassing for the club and the directors (IMO) that they couldn't manage to set up the course appropriately for the Club Championship.  It really shouldn't be that difficult.
 
As for why golfers are so sad, can't answer that one, I'm one of them!

Roller, makes you wonder doesn't it how many liberties some might take given the chance.

One thing I forgot to mention, and I've not had a chance to check this yet. Maybe someone on here can confirm. The comp was 3/4 handicap and one of these guys was off 15 which nets down to 11.25. I put him down for 11 and he was adamant he should have 12 as 'you always round up'. In the end it made no difference, they were rubbish, but I don't think that's right is it??

MPB - 11.25 is rounded down to 11. Definitely.
 
My mate plays off +3 though, and no-one can give a definitive answer on what 3/4 of +3 is?  Anyone know?  I think the answer is he's too good to be playing handicap competitions.....  

***My mate plays off +3 though, and no-one can give a definitive answer on what 3/4 of +3 is?***

It's +2 according to a CONGU decision. Since this is illogical, organisers of a lot of 4BBB handicap competitions say that handicaps of scratch or better are left as they are, even though everyone else loses a quarter.

All the stuff about teeing grounds and hole locations are not in the rules of golf per se. There's R&A guidance for people organising competitions which gives helpful advice - it is just advice - about tees and greens. The teeing ground is supposed to be rectangular in shape, defined by a line between the tee markers and a parallel line two club lengths behind the tee markers. The same guidelines suggest the hole is cut at least four paces from the edge of the green, but factors like weather conditions, ground conditions, the slope of the green, the length of shot being played to the green and balance within the round (ie not all at the front, or not all on the right) should be taken into account.

The R&A provides all this information - and much more stuff like specimen local rules too - so there's really no excuse for clubs, and competition committees in particular to get it wrong. They do though.

Thanks Tiler

Thanks George, that's what we'd assumed. Didn't make much difference to our pathetic points total at the weekend anyway!! Making a par net bogey takes some getting your head around....

Where does it say that you cannot have a qualifying competition when there are less than two club lengths behind the markers? Not doubting just can't find it anywhere.

golfermartin wrote:Where does it say that you cannot have a qualifying competition when there are less than two club lengths behind the markers? Not doubting just can't find it anywhere.

It doesn't say that anywhere. It can - should be a qualifying competition. Someone has made a mistake here.

If there isn't room behind the tee markers to take two club lengths back, then the greenkeeper should just move the tee markers forward until there is. If they don't do that though, the competition should still be a qualifying competition.

George1507 wrote:

golfermartin wrote:Where does it say that you cannot have a qualifying competition when there are less than two club lengths behind the markers? Not doubting just can't find it anywhere.

It doesn't say that anywhere. It can - should be a qualifying competition. Someone has made a mistake here.

If there isn't room behind the tee markers to take two club lengths back, then the greenkeeper should just move the tee markers forward until there is. If they don't do that though, the competition should still be a qualifying competition.

 
The plot thickens.... though nothing surprises me at my club any more.  Might see if I can find out where the ruling came from.

Surely one should simply add 25% on to a plus handicap?

0 = 0
+1 = +1
+2 = +2 (assuming you round +.5 to the higher/worse handicap as you do with 4.5 h/cap to 5)
+3 = +4

Roller_Coaster wrote:Surely one should simply add 25% on to a plus handicap?

0 = 0
+1 = +1
+2 = +2 (assuming you round +.5 to the higher/worse handicap as you do with 4.5 h/cap to 5)
+3 = +4

It isn't logical. Here's the CONGU decision -

Decision Relevant to Appendix F
6(a) Plus Handicaps – Strokes Conceded When Other Than Full Handicap Allowance Applied.
When calculating the number of strokes a plus handicap player should give the course when
other than full allowance is to be applied, the rounding of fractions of a stroke shall be carried
out in the usual way by rounding 0.5 of a stroke upwards.
As a handicap of plus is mathematically a minus handicap (below zero), three quarters of a
handicap of plus 2 equals -1.5, which rounds upwards to -1 stroke. That stroke should be
conceded to the course at the hole allocated Stroke Index 18.

Are strokes normally conceded in the reverse stroke index (ie 18 then 17) ?
as theyre not at my course... or at least thats what they state on the card.. it seems to be at par 5's first.. par 3's last ...
plus 1 owes a stroke at stoke index 17 (a par5)
plus 2 owes a stroke at stoke index 13 (also a par5 - we only have 2)
plus 3 owes a stroke at stroke index 15 (par 4)

some people have not got a clue...i was playing the other week, and the guy said i had to round down my handicap, you always round up, dontcha? And his rules on where and how i could drop from under a tree! He didnt have a clue!

People are so often mistaken on rules matters, and I personally find it very awkward if I have to correct someone, but I do it nonetheless. Just this weekend, a playing partner hit his tee shot into the water on one of our par 3s, and unfortunately his ball crossed a kind of peninsular sticking out front left of the green. As such, it last crossed the hazard at a point where there's no possibility to drop in line, and there's a drop zone for this circumstance but one which isn't at all conveniently placed, requiring a 40 yard pitch over the pond from an invariably bare lie. He headed off towards the opposite side, near where his ball went in, and I had to point out that he couldn't drop there. I felt really bad, not least because after being just a point behind him after nine I'd dropped away while he'd continued to score well, to the extend that the other member of our 3 ball seemed to think I'd said something out of sour grapes. It won't make me change my approach though, because I think if you let someone get away with something you know to be wrong you set a bad example, and people are generally happy to be better informed (plus of course you should be disqualified for agreeing to waive a rule of golf!).

I am so glad I only play this game for fun. I am no expert on rules and we just try to make it an enjoyable day.

busted wrote:Are strokes normally conceded in the reverse stroke index (ie 18 then 17) ?
as theyre not at my course... or at least thats what they state on the card.. it seems to be at par 5's first.. par 3's last ...
plus 1 owes a stroke at stoke index 17 (a par5)
plus 2 owes a stroke at stoke index 13 (also a par5 - we only have 2)
plus 3 owes a stroke at stroke index 15 (par 4)

Yes, the shots are normally conceded back to the course at SI 18, then 17 , then 16 and so on.

I guess it's ok to have a local rule on this, but it seems a bit unnecessary to me. There are so many things that really do need local rule clarification (like paths, roads, stones in bunkers, hazards, hedges, areas of special scientific interest, dmds, winter rules etc) that a local rule for the odd occasion that + handicappers play handicap stableford events seems bizarre.