Hungarian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Practice/Qualifying and Race Results

[Fernando]

It may only be three weeks, but the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring seems like a lifetime ago. So it's good to be previewing a return to Budapest and the Formula 1 Magyar Nagydij 2013.

Drivers enjoy the city and the welcome from the Hungarian (and Finnish) fans, and a few of them actually like the circuit too, which in many respects is a glorified kart track. It has a succession of slow corners, one leading immediately onto another, making it the second slowest track on the calendar. It is only just faster than Monaco, but without all the tax-dodging.

As Renault motorsport boss Remi Taffin says, it's not about engine power: "Outright engine power is not a major concern. As a result we generally use engines on the third race and work to deliver good low-speed torque response and driveability."

Since the Nurburgring, Pirelli have been working to supply F1 with new tyres - everyone bar Mercedes got to run with them at the Young Driver Test and the reaction was positive from the teams.

Pirelli have modified their P Zero tyre with a reversion to the 2012 construction which is now married to the range of softer 2013 compounds. Their motorsport boss Paul Hembery, having weathered the storm that the F1 teams created after the Silverstone GP, is looking forward to a good old-fashioned strategy battle at the Hungaroring. Even though 10 teams got to run the tyres at the Young Driver Test (and Mercedes received the data) Hembery believes that Friday set-up work will be crucial to figuring out strategy.

"Overtaking at this circuit is never an easy task, "said Hembery, "so the teams will be looking to use strategy to maximise their opportunities to gain track position. The selection of medium and soft tyres should provide plenty of chances to help them do that, based on the data that all the teams gain with different fuel loads in free practice."

Many Fridays have been ruined in previous grand prix weekend by Friday rain, but at the Hungaroring it's expected to be Scorchio all weekend with ambient temperatures of 32C, 33C and 36C for the race.

Looking after your rears may well be the order of the day, but Hembery believes that the Softs and Mediums will just lose performance rather than disintegrate. "With levels of lateral energy relatively low, tyre performance rather than durability will be the limiting factor and this will form the basis of the strategy selected."

The added durability of the new tyre may well be to the advantage of Lotus, Force India and Ferrari who will be able to eke out performance on the Soft tyres, while Mercedes and Red Bull may be forced into using the slower Medium tyres. A lot of computing and brain power will have gone into solving degradation issues since the last race, none more so than at Mercedes who had to sit out the Young Driver Test.

Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff should have been a lot more upbeat about the weekend in prospect. In the last race at a tight, twisty circuit - Monaco - his cars locked out the front row and won the race. But that was on a different tyre. "We are under no illusions that we have a number of challenges to overcome," Wolff said. "First, we will need to do extra homework on Friday to understand how the new tyres work with our car. Then we will have to get to grips with the high temperatures, a demanding circuit and the new Soft and Medium compound Pirelli tyres. "

At least he'll have a couple of pumped up drivers. Lewis Hamilton has won the Hungarian Grand Prix three times before and Nico Rosberg just wants to beat Lewis Hamilton.

There may not be any Hungarian drivers on the grid, but ever since the days of Mika Hakkinen, the race has attracted a lot of Finnish fans. Some of them may be cheering Valtteri Bottas, but the majority will be hoping that Kimi Raikkonen doesn't have to step onto that hated second step of the podium again.

"I have finished second in Hungary too many times," grumbled the Ice (Cream) Man, "so I know how important it is to lead the race after the first corner. DRS or not, it's never easy to overtake at the Hungaroring. To get the weekend right, you have to have good sessions in FP1, FP2 and FP3, then a strong qualifying session and finally a perfect start to the race."

"Many times Hungary has been called 'the Grand Prix of Finland'. A lot of Finns go to this race every year and it is always nice to see the blue and white flags waving. Hopefully we get the result we are looking for."

One thing that Raikkonen was concerned about was the dust at the Hungaroring, especially on the dirty side of the grid. Often teams worry about starting on the dirty side of the grid and nothing dreadful happens, but at the Hungaroring it can be a problem. And with teams able to re-arrange their drivers by changing a gearbox and hence changing the left-side starters to right-side starters, it is a lottery that can still be manipulated. (Maybe the FIA should have the power to impose a six-place penalty for a gearbox that they believe has been changed for tactical reasons?)

Red Bull will be hoping to battle it out with Lotus and Mercedes for the win, and having gone quickest on the new Pirelli rubber at the YDT they will obviously be hoping to add to Mark Webber's win at the circuit. It's been an interesting week with the team announcing a July 6th 2014 date for an Austrian GP at the Red Bull Ring. So presumably next year this will precede the Hungarian GP and may even elbow aside the 2014 German GP.

The Hungarian race marks the start of the F1 holiday season and after this it will be another four weeks until the race in Spa. Traditionally the grand prix was promoted by one of Bernie Ecclestone's companies and the good burghers of Budapest erected a statue of Bernard Charles at the Hungaroring looking, if truth be told, a little like a cross between Eric Morecambe and Elvis Costello. The way things are going with events in Munich, this may be the closest we get to Bernie's attendance next year...

Like the Australian Grand Prix, the tight confines and atypical nature of the circuit will only give a small piece of the picture about the teams' relative performance on the new tyre. The Belgian GP with many high-speed corners will provide much more of the picture. Butit's going to be a fascinating glimpse of the battles ahead.

Weather Forecast:http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/3054643 < Looking to be very hot this weekend close to 40 degrees come raceday.
Source: PlanetF1.com

[GSC]

10 place grid penalty for releasing a car with a loose wheel now

[Guest]

Can only see a repeat of Bahrain or Nurburgring this weekend for Mercedes.

[GSC]

RBs look very good.

[GSC]

[Guest]

Worrying practice results.

Going to get even hotter, which should bring Lotus further into the game. Kimi has to put the Lotus' on the front two rows, otherwise his advantage on race day is just neutralised and he will lose time, allowing Vettel to escape. Mercedes, clearly focusing on Sunday with setup and analysing the tyre performance. They may even decide to take away some Saturday speed to ensure no repeat of Nurburgring. Alonso is there or thereabouts.

[dyrewolfe]

Wow - another blistering quali performance from Lewis Hamilton to snatch pole from Vettel by just a few hundredths of a second. If I heard correctly, that's his 30th career pole, which puts him joint 7th on the all-time list with one J M Fangio.

Still think the outcome of the race will be a foregone conclusion with Vettel starting alongside Hamilton.

Great performance from Grosjean to grab 3rd spot. Rosberg back in 4th, followed by Alonso, Raikkonen and Massa.

Decent performances from Ricciardo and Perez in 8th & 9th respectively. Poor old Webber hampered by KERS issues (yet again), made Q3 but didn't even try to set a lap, so will start 10th.

Reckon that running order will be subject to a fair amount of shaking up. Expect Alonso and Webber to make progress...maybe Kimi as well if he can keep his tyres intact.

Fully expecting both Mercedes to move backwards, but manage top 10 finishes. Track temperature could play a key part in whether they finish well or poorly.

[Guest]

The fastest man in F1 does it again. Congrats Lewis Hamilton, sensational lap but unfortunately tomorrow will be a different matter. I think the damage has already been done. Kimi will take time negotiating through the field and will allow Vettel to escape, once he has passed a slow starting, heavy fuelled Hamilton. I can't rely on Grosjean to perform and challenge Vettel but it would be nice if he could. The predictable KERS failure minutes into qualifying for Webber was laughable and now makes it 10-0 in head to head against Vettel. Alonso must be raging in the Ferrari, just not enough downforce and another year seems to be fading by. No wonder James Allison is on his way to the Italian outfit

Hopefully tomorrow brings some kind of mechanical failure for the finger, otherwise, we should probably just start thinking about next year. Perez out-qualifying Button.......... 

[Fernando]

Was a quality lap by Hamilton don't think he'll stay there though due to it being even hotter tomorrow.

Can see a Grosjean/Vettel battle tbh 


It's not much of an accomplishment beating Fangio's record tbh DW He's done more then twice as many races then Fangio did.

Fangio 29 Poles/52 Races 
Hamilton 30 Poles/120 Races

[GSC]

Mercedes fastest car on 1 lap does it again.

Grosjean on the non dirty side is a good tip

[CaledonianCraig]

Cracking effort from Lewis to get pole but you kind of feel it is just a token gesture. Once race conditions come into play the Mercedes just doesn't have the race pace, consistency and kindness to tyres to be really competitive which is a shame. My money will be on Seb to win tomorrow.

[Guest]

Lewis Hamilton ‏@LewisHamilton 19m
A good day today, lets hope that the tyres hold on a bit better tomorrow than they did in Germany

It really is just a sad, inevitable storyline in F1 now of the degrading tyres for Mercedes on a Sunday, which in turn, gifts the finger another 25 points and sees him roll off another world title. Shame, that such a talented driver is having to drive to these restrictions and not being able to showcase his full racing ability in an attempt to end this pain-stakingly, boring domination of one driver. Love it how the paddock is so downbeat with the realisation that Vettel, although lying second on the grid, is still a clear favourite to win.

[GSC]

Call in the Justice League to deal with this horrendously unfair event

[Fernando]

It wouldn't matter if the tyres didn't degrade John RB and Vettel would walk away with it because their being restricted by the tyres to about 85% of what it can actually do.

PS. He's not the fastest man in F1 maybe over 1 lap but you don't get points for Qualifying. only a Hamilton Fanboy would think that, I think everyone here knows how much you like Hamilton but if you put them infront of the team bosses and said choose your fastest 2 He'd be 2nd or 3rd behind Alonso maybe Vettel.

[Guest]

Oh yeah, I understand your points and how the tyres are holding everyone back, including RB. It was more a tongue-in-cheek about F1's situation really. Yeah, I support Hamilton but I'm not a fanboy. Is interesting though, how Vettel's domination is really starting to grind on the media/journalists, you can sense now they want Vettel to have issues every weekend, otherwise you can say goodbye to any real serious excitement or competition this season. I still think it goes Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso in terms of speed. In terms of race craft, nobody touches Alonso.

Bring on tomorrow.

[CaledonianCraig]

There is one way I judge greatness of drivers. Look at the teams they have driven for and the success gained. Using that then only Alonso gets pass marks. World titles at Renault (not the fastest car on the grid) and Ferrari (perhaps one of the best cars on the grid). Vettel and Hamilton have not reached that stage yet in my books.

[GSC]

Grosjeans car floor fails a deflection test

[Guest]

Haven't fully read the story but not sure how he has escaped punishment.

Possibly the FIA have decided that without him in the race to challenge Vettel, it could be very, very boring and processional.

[GSC]

It was down to damage caused when he rode over a kerb

[bogbrush]

There is one way I judge greatness of drivers. Look at the teams they have driven for and the success gained. Using that then only Alonso gets pass marks. World titles at Renault (not the fastest car on the grid) and Ferrari (perhaps one of the best cars on the grid). Vettel and Hamilton have not reached that stage yet in my books.

So Hamilton is garbage then?

Or maybe the idea is flawed.

After all, isn't Vettel the only guy to get pole and win a race with a midfield team, and the youngest man ever to win? That must mean it doesn't count, surely?

[CaledonianCraig]

No not garbage. Not just seen as an all-time great by myself.

Of course everyone rates greatness in their own ways. For me remove Lewis and Sebastian from the comfort blankets of McLaren and Red Bull and they have achieved nothing. If Lewis or Seb goes on to win a world title elsewhere that will elevate their status for me. Just my opinion of course.

[bogbrush]

No not garbage. Not just seen as an all-time great by myself.

Of course everyone rates greatness in their own ways. For me remove Lewis and Sebastian from the comfort blankets of McLaren and Red Bull and they have achieved nothing. If  Lewis or Seb goes on to win a world title elsewhere that will elevate their status for me. Just my opinion of course.

"Nothing"? Apart from Vettel setting pole and winning the race at Italy in a Toro Rosso in 2008 aged barely 21 But... but......  Vettel only wins in superior cars doesn't he?

Can you tell me how many titles Senna won in bad cars?

As for lionising Alonso, well great driver that he is he's always required the full support (and I mean, a relegated team mate). The only time he didn't get it was when McLaren put a rookie kid in the second McLaren and he couldn't handle the younger mans pace. He left the team straight away.

[CaledonianCraig]

I judge greatness on world titles and how and where they are achieved. Alonso was not in THE best car at Renault and took the world title away from the mighty Schumacher at Ferrari and that was his mark of greatness away from the comfort blanket of Ferrari. However, you want to dress things up look at the man behind Red Bull's rise - designer Adrian Newey. He is renowned as the Pele, the Muhammad Ali, the Roger Federer of car design in F1 and his arrival at Red Bull coincides with their rise as a team. Yes Seb was there too but until I see Seb doing it in a non-Newey designed car away from the comfort blanket of Red Bull then I will always be left wondering.

[bogbrush]

Ferrari had already been hamstrung by regulation changes to hinder their domination, lets not fall into the trap of thinking that was dominant Schumacher / Ferrari,

And you again ignore that Vettel won a race and got a pole in a Toro Rosso. And that Mark Webber - a bloody good driver lest anyone try to say otherwise - doesn't dominate in the RB, which is odd if its the supercar you make it out to be. What's that now this year, 10-0 in qualifying?

I guess you wonder a lot about Senna then. And most other greats too.

[CaledonianCraig]

It is all down to what people see as great. However, you want to look at it Fernando Alonso beating Ferrari and Schumacher was a massive achievement which he did twice and he has that ability to get the very best out of what often hasn't been the best package.

And no I do not ignore Vettel won a race and got pole (in the same race I may add) but recognise that race was in the wet and we all know how a bit of rain spices things up and produces different results than the norm.

No I don't wonder about Senna as I recall watching his races and driving skills in awe. He also won races (note the plural) for Lotus and McLaren and I am sure would have went onto even greater things but for his untimely death.

Mark my words if Vettel can go on to further success in testing circumstances away from the comfort of Red Bull he will elevate himself in my eyes.

[bogbrush]

Alonso has the ability to convince everyone that he's driving a tank when last year he had comfortably the fastest Sunday car. He fled his team the only time he's had competition, even if it was only from a boy. Lets not get too excited by a guy who can't take competition from a teammate. Hell, he's even had one who was ordered to crash to help him.

And while we're talking about needing to win a title in an inferior car, Alonso managed to lose one in the best car in 2007.

The comfort of Red Bull doesn't seem comfortable enough to help Mark Webber, bad luck aside, get results does it? Maybe, just maybe, Vettel makes that car look better than it is. Ever considered that?

[CaledonianCraig]

No I consider what you have ignored. Adrian Newey is the master of all designers - the Ali, the Pele, the Federer of F1 car designers. Heck his car designs have won him nine F1 titles for Williams, McLaren and Red Bull and he is recognised as the king of his field. His ability to design the fastest F1 cars out there are not up there for question - that is a fact. That is why I want to see how Seb fairs away from Red Bull seeing him drive the wheels off a car not designed to such brilliance.

You are a tennis man - it is akin to a tennis player only able to win on clay. You would not be so game to paint him as a GOAT if all his slam wins came on the one surface. The same applies here for Vettel - lets see what he can do away from the comfort of Red Bull, away from Newey's influence and away from a team he effectively runs himself.

[bogbrush]

So Webber must be a really bad driver then.

Vettel will secure his legacy, and that will doubtless include titles at other team(s).

For now, at just 26 with three titles, and run at a fourth, and an impressive record at a minor team when very young, he has done everything anyone in history could ever have done, comfortably. He is competitive, drives a thrilling style that puts winning and fast times ahead of pragmatism, and honest on his attitude to racing (he didn't whine when Webber disobeyed team orders and tried to pass him a few years ago, in contrast to the cacophony of whinging heard earlier this year).

The sniping will continue, probably for good as much of it is personal, but I think it will become based on narrower and narrower criteria and his career progresses.

[GSC]

Nobody's winning a title in a Marussia.

Vettel has won 2 titles in the last race of the season and has 1 dominant victory. If he's not an ATG already he's on the verge

[CaledonianCraig]

Don't get me wrong I am not ruling out that he may become a legend in my eyes but until I see him in different circumstances and team etc he will be one of the best drivers of today at the best team. As for Webber well he hasn't taken the final step has he? He also must hold the record for the most times his KERRS has broken - broke again yesterday.

[CaledonianCraig]

Nobody's winning a title in a Marussia.

Vettel has won 2 titles in the last race of the season and has 1 dominant victory. If he's not an ATG already he's on the verge

Who said about him having to win a title at Marussia? It could be anywhere other than Red Bull such as McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes or Lotus.

[GSC]

Nobody wins anything in a bad car was the point so so using the RB against Vettel is fairly weak. Why should he have to go anywhere. He's got a race winning car.

[CaledonianCraig]

The point is Red Bull is designed by the master designer of F1 - Adrian Newey. It is not open for debate that he designs the fastest cars as his nine world title designed cars show. To try to erase any sort of influence that sort of design makes on results is extremely naive. Vettel has world titles (all in Newey-designed cars) and for me I have to see him win title in a car without Newey's influence to satisfy me that he can win in anything.

[bogbrush]

So we rule any driver out who won a title in a Newey car? Ooh, sorry Nigel.

This is populist analysis, the sort of thing that gets trotted out on the BBC comments section. All the best drivers drive the best cars. Alonso drove the best car in 2007 but didn't in the title. What do we make of that?

I'll tell you what is up for debate: that he designed the fastest race car in 2012. The Ferrarri was a very competitive race car despite what the PR campaign for Alonso would have you believe.

[Fernando]

So winning another title in a different car makes you a good driver  

What does this mean for Alberto Ascari/Ayrton Senna/Nelson Piquet/Alain Prost and Mika Hakkinen   

All won multiple world titles in the same car. Presumably by that theory CC their not that good because they couldn't win in a different car.

[GSC]

McLaren was faster last year than the RB, it just kept imploding.

[CaledonianCraig]

Remember what I am posting is my opinion. Yourself and GSC have your own ways of rating greatness as do I and each other poster. Sorry if it conflicts with your beliefs but the only thing that will change my mind is seeing Vettel win a world title elsewhere or even challenge for world titles in a non-Newey designed car to satisfy myself that it isn't more car design than driving ability winning the titles.

[bogbrush]

You don't mind that last year he had a slower but more reliable car than the McLaren, and a slower in race but better qualifying car than Ferrari, or that Mark Webber finished 6th, behind a Lotus, both McLarens and a Ferrarri?

These don't impact your idea that he gets titles handed over because he drives a RB?

[CaledonianCraig]

No last year he was in a car that won the manufacturers title hence the best car and invariably fastest which Newey is renowned for. You can form an idea of who was fastest car but during last year (in race conditions) the Red Bulls held most fast laps over the season at the races and probably the least retirements ahead of the other teams. Remember the talents of Newey - nine world titles at three different teams and winning CART titles in the USA and Indianapolis500. His influence cannot be over-emphasised. Look you see Vettel as an all-time great and that is your opinion just like in mines I will reserve my judgement on that. It isn't a crime is it?

[bogbrush]

You overlook some small details, like there were two of his cars on the track, and all that stuff you wrote got achieved in one of them.

Don't put words in my mouth, all I'm doing is showing you that you've swallowed the Andrew Benson line uncritically.

Today again he has his work cut out against stiff competition,including one team relishing the hot weather / tyres. If he loses it'll show his limitations, if he wins its hats off to Newey..

You see the pattern?

[CaledonianCraig]

No I don't even read Andrew Benson's articles so you are wrong there. Yes there were two of his cars on the track. Your point? If it is that Vettel beat Webber then it is not really a bold boast. Outwith Red Bull then Webber's best finish in the WDC is 10th. In an Adrian Newey-designed Red Bull he has finished 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th and 6th. Note the latter deterioration perhaps showing he is now past his best as he is nearer 40 than 30.

[dyrewolfe]

Was a quality lap by Hamilton don't think he'll stay there though due to it being even hotter tomorrow.

Can see a Grosjean/Vettel battle tbh 


It's not much of an accomplishment beating Fangio's record tbh DW He's done more then twice as many races then Fangio did.

Fangio 29 Poles/52 Races 
Hamilton 30 Poles/120 Races

Hardly a fair comparison Fernando.

In Fangio's era, there were far fewer races over a season, plus there was far greater disparity between the cars, with the majority of teams being classed as "independents" and only a handful of works teams.

I'm guessing there wasn't anything like the amount of homogenisation and cross-team engine/equipment sharing, as there is in the modern era.

Basically, it was much easier for a really good driver to stand out from the pack.

[bogbrush]

No I don't even read Andrew Benson's articles so you are wrong there. Yes there were two of his cars on the track. Your point? If it is that Vettel beat Webber then it is not really a bold boast. Outwith Red Bull then Webber's best finish in the WDC is 10th. In an Adrian Newey-designed Red Bull he has finished 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 5th and 6th. Note the latter deterioration perhaps showing he is now past his best as he is nearer 40 than 30.

So you agree, the RB was never so good that Webber could beat the field, never mind just the other RB. And my point was that the list of fast times you cited came from just one of the cars.

I'm saying you're ignoring Vettel's contribution to the success of the Red Bull and only viewing it from one direction.

[dyrewolfe]

Anyway, getting back on what seems to be the new topic, Vettel is undoubtedly a great driver...however he has also undoubtedly benefitted from having the best car on the grid for the last 3-4 seasons.

Even when the car hasn't been the absolute best on the grid, RB have been able to compensate by having the brains to put together race winning strategies. Vettel's main strength (I feel) is his ability to drive to a strategy and it's this combination that has accounted for the majority of their success.

I'd also hazard a guess many peoples' opinion of him is coloured by the fact he isn't the best sportsman around and probably is very much deserving of his nickname of Schuey Jr, as he seems to have learned a lot of his less honourable traits from his idol.

I'll hold my hand up and say I don't like him, as a result of his unsporting antics, but have to admit he has amazing ability (contrast his performances with those of his merely "good" team mate...leaving any favouritism issues aside).

If he went to a new team, he'd need time to adjust and settle - as would any driver. Whether he could be as successful would largely depend on whether the team could develop a car to suit him. In that respect he's no different to any other driver. I believe he would struggle for a while, at least.

Thing is - why would Seb ever leave RB where he enjoys No.1 driver status and the entire team is built around him?

[CaledonianCraig]

No Webber did get a fastest lap in Korea and a couple of pole positions last year. I am not ignoring Vettel's contribution just sceptical about the amount of contribution to its success. My point is Adrian Newey has designed world title winning cars without Vettel in the driving seat whereas I am yet to see Vettel win a world title without a Newey-designed car. That tells me Newey's talents are not restricted to having the very best drivers of all-time as I wouldn't put Mansell in that class but Vettel has yet to prove he can win without the creme de la creme of designers designing his car.

[dyrewolfe]

There is one way I judge greatness of drivers. Look at the teams they have driven for and the success gained. Using that then only Alonso gets pass marks. World titles at Renault (not the fastest car on the grid) and Ferrari (perhaps one of the best cars on the grid). Vettel and Hamilton have not reached that stage yet in my books.

Alonso's Renault may not have been the best in terms of straight line speed, but it was unbeatable in corners, thanks to the mass-damping device in the nose...which was later outlawed. gave him a bit of an advantage I think.

That said, he is undoubtedly a great driver.

[Bull]

Come on FERRARI!

lets go for the win...dont expect it to happen

[Fernando]

Was a quality lap by Hamilton don't think he'll stay there though due to it being even hotter tomorrow.

Can see a Grosjean/Vettel battle tbh 


It's not much of an accomplishment beating Fangio's record tbh DW He's done more then twice as many races then Fangio did.

Fangio 29 Poles/52 Races 
Hamilton 30 Poles/120 Races

Hardly a fair comparison Fernando.

In Fangio's era, there were far fewer races over a season, plus there was far greater disparity between the cars, with the majority of teams being classed as "independents" and only a handful of works teams.

I'm guessing there wasn't anything like the amount of homogenisation and cross-team engine/equipment sharing, as there is in the modern era.

Basically, it was much easier for a really good driver to stand out from the pack.

If you even try and compare Hamilton to Fangio in the politest way possible your a muppet.  

The cars are much easier to drive nowadays and the tracks are much more safety conscious so can run wide and come back on, If you ran wide in 1950's you wouldn't be coming back.

You could put Max Chilton/Charles Pic in Hamilton's seat and he'd produce results it's the car not the man nowadays just have to take a look at what Pat Symonds said the other day at most Vettel/Alonso would find 0.5 over the current Marussia drivers in there car.

You say it's less competitive yet we have had the same 8 cars fighting week in week out it's hardly disparity when you know one of RB/Mercedes/Ferrari/Lotus will win unless it rains especially when atleast another 8 cars get lapped that's hardly competitive racing.

[CaledonianCraig]

I will say BB anyone is entitled to list Vettel amongst the all-time greats as three world titles back-to-back is mighty impressive but my head will only be turned if I see him tested in other areas. These would be either in another team in a non-Newey designed car or even at Red Bull with a true challenge to him from within the team from his new team-mate.

Anyways I am away to enjoy the race.

[GSC]

You'd think Newey had a remote control in the garage sometimes

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