OWGR Week 35

A quick recap for Week 35  (Ending Monday, September 2, 2013)

Rank - (Last Week) - Average

1 ( 1 ) - 14.1823 - Tiger Woods
2 ( 2 ) - 9.3603 - Adam Scott
3 ( 3 ) - 8.5906 - Phil Mickelson
4 ( 5 ) - 7.8804 - Justin Rose
5 ( 4 ) - 7.8734 - Rory McIlroy
6 ( 10 ) - 7.1504 - Henrik Stenson (winner Deutche Bank - PGA Tour)
7 ( 6 ) - 6.8028 - Matt Kuchar
8 ( 7 ) - 6.2588 - Brandt Snedeker
9 ( 8 ) - 6.1135 - Jason Dufner
10 ( 14 ) - 5.9519 - Steve Stricker
11 ( 9 ) - 5.7687 - Graeme McDowell
12 ( 12 ) - 5.0916 - Keegan Bradley
13 ( 11 ) - 5.0190 - Luke Donald
14 ( 13 ) - 4.8945 - Lee Westwood
15 ( 15 ) - 4.7014 - Jim Furyk
16 ( 17 ) - 4.6506 - Ian Poulter
17 ( 20 ) - 4.6267 - Sergio Garcia
18 ( 18 ) - 4.5958 - Jason Day
19 ( 16 ) - 4.5183 - Charl Schwartzel
20 ( 19 ) - 4.4734 - Ernie Els
21 ( 21 ) - 4.2707 - Louis Oosthuizen
22 ( 22 ) - 4.1434 - Bubba Watson
23 ( 23 ) - 4.1420 - Dustin Johnson
24 ( 24 ) - 4.1175 - Zach Johnson
25 ( 26 ) - 3.9976 - Webb Simpson
26 ( 25 ) - 3.9959 - Bill Haas
27 ( 27 ) - 3.9197 - Hunter Mahan
28 ( 33 ) - 3.5044 - Jordan Spieth
29 ( 28 ) - 3.3043 - Hideki Matsuyama
30 ( 30 ) - 3.2084 - Nick Watney
31 ( 29 ) - 3.2074 - Matteo Manassero
32 ( 31 ) - 3.0664 - Branden Grace
33 ( 32 ) - 3.0450 - Peter Hanson
34 ( 34 ) - 3.0377 - Rickie Fowler
35 ( 48 ) - 3.0080 - Graham Delaet
36 ( 38 ) - 2.9525 - Jonas Blixt
37 ( 35 ) - 2.9423 - Bo Van Pelt
38 ( 36 ) - 2.9347 - Richard Sterne
39 ( 37 ) - 2.9338 - Martin Kaymer
40 ( 40 ) - 2.9333 - Scott Piercy
41 ( 39 ) - 2.8956 - Kevin Streelman
42 ( 41 ) - 2.7924 - Jamie Donaldson
43 ( 42 ) - 2.7227 - Billy Horschel
44 ( 43 ) - 2.6742 - Francesco Molinari
45 ( 44 ) - 2.5891 - Thorbjorn Olesen
46 ( 45 ) - 2.5142 - Ryan Moore
47 ( 50 ) - 2.4726 - Boo Weekley
48 ( 51 ) - 2.4478 - Gonzalo Fdez-Castano
49 ( 47 ) - 2.4371 - Nicolas Colsaerts
50 ( 46 ) - 2.4351 - Angel Cabrera
51 ( 49 ) - 2.4126 - D.A. Points
52 ( 52 ) - 2.3945 - David Lynn
53 ( 54 ) - 2.3382 - Robert Garrigus
54 ( 55 ) - 2.3359 - Michael Thompson
55 ( 53 ) - 2.3067 - Miguel A Jimenez
56 ( 57 ) - 2.2461 - Bernd Wiesberger
57 ( 58 ) - 2.2217 - Martin Laird
58 ( 59 ) - 2.2190 - Thongchai Jaidee
59 ( 66 ) - 2.2082 - Marc Leishman
60 ( 56 ) - 2.2062 - Tim Clark
61 ( 60 ) - 2.1795 - Carl Pettersson
62 ( 63 ) - 2.1310 - Patrick Reed
63 ( 61 ) - 2.1226 - Chris Wood
64 ( 64 ) - 2.1027 - Stephen Gallacher
65 ( 62 ) - 2.0982 - Paul Lawrie
66 ( 65 ) - 2.0885 - Thomas Bjorn
67 ( 69 ) - 2.0545 - Mikko Ilonen
68 ( 68 ) - 2.0545 - Jimmy Walker
69 ( 67 ) - 2.0441 - Russell Henley
70 ( 81 ) - 2.0409 - Brendon de Jonge
71 ( 70 ) - 2.0340 - Marcel Siem
72 ( 74 ) - 2.0323 - Harris English
73 ( 72 ) - 1.9723 - Alexander Noren
74 ( 71 ) - 1.9645 - Fredrik Jacobson
75 ( 73 ) - 1.9587 - Kyle Stanley
76 ( 75 ) - 1.9066 - George Coetzee
77 ( 80 ) - 1.8998 - Scott Stallings
78 ( 85 ) - 1.8790 - Brett Rumford
79 ( 82 ) - 1.8776 - John Merrick
80 ( 89 ) - 1.8759 - Joost Luiten
81 ( 76 ) - 1.8666 - John Huh
82 ( 78 ) - 1.8587 - Shane Lowry
83 ( 83 ) - 1.8455 - Kiradech Aphibarnrat
84 ( 77 ) - 1.8439 - Luke Guthrie
85 ( 97 ) - 1.8438 - Roberto Castro
86 ( 84 ) - 1.8396 - David Lingmerth
87 ( 79 ) - 1.8345 - Ken Duke
88 ( 87 ) - 1.8009 - David Toms
89 ( 90 ) - 1.7741 - Charles Howell-III
90 ( 91 ) - 1.7731 - Kevin Chappell
91 ( 86 ) - 1.7689 - Padraig Harrington
92 ( 99 ) - 1.7588 - Chris Kirk
93 ( 88 ) - 1.7544 - Ryan Palmer
94 ( 94 ) - 1.7038 - Geoff Ogilvy
95 ( 98 ) - 1.6973 - Gary Woodland
96 ( 119 ) - 1.6948 - Peter Uihlein
97 ( 92 ) - 1.6841 - Marcus Fraser
98 ( 95 ) - 1.6825 - Paul Casey
99 ( 101 ) - 1.6782 - Charley Hoffman
100 ( 93 ) - 1.6731 - Hiroyuki Fujita
101 ( 96 ) - 1.6699 - John Senden
102 ( 103 ) - 1.6029 - Rafael Cabrera Bello
103 ( 102 ) - 1.5897 - Marc Warren
104 ( 134 ) - 1.5797 - Kevin Stadler
105 ( 109 ) - 1.5682 - Chris Stroud
- - - -
118 ( 173 ) - 1.4763 - Gregory Bourdy (Winner Wales - Euro Tour)
- - - -
152 ( 243 ) - 1.1525 - Park Sung-Joon (Winner Vana H Cup - Japan Tour)
- - - -
200 ( 296 ) - 0.9112 - Trevor Immelman (Winner Hotel Fitness - Web.com Tour)
- - - -
286 ( 481 ) - 0.6306 - Daan Huizing (Winner N. Ireland  - Challenge Tour)
- - - -
523 ( 628 ) - 0.2974 - Andrew Curlewis (Winner Wild Waves - Sunshine Tour)
- - - -
710 ( 1407 ) - 0.1647 - Mark Hubbard (Winner Wildfire - Canadian Tour)

Cheers robo.

Not long before Stenson will be best European.

Thanks robo,

Uihlein deservedly in to the Top 100 - assume he'll be lobbying for sponsors invites for the early 2013/2014 PGA Tour events, probably Brooks Koepka too.

Unbelievable run by Stenson, almost Rory-esque from last year.

Wonder if all the qualifiers will drive at the BMW? Still think it's posible that Tiger might give it a miss, given that the FedEx Cup will be in his hands at East Lake regardless of what he does in Chicago. the

kwinigolfer wrote:Thanks robo,

Uihlein deservedly in to the Top 100 - assume he'll be lobbying for sponsors invites for the early 2013/2014 PGA Tour events, probably Brooks Koepka too.

Unbelievable run by Stenson, almost Rory-esque from last year.

Wonder if all the qualifiers will drive at the BMW? Still think it's posible that Tiger might give it a miss, given that the FedEx Cup will be in his hands at East Lake regardless of what he does in Chicago. the

Not particularly suggesting it's likely, but wonder whether Uihlein might be better served by committing early to the ET finals thingies in Oct/Nov and the Desert Swing in the spring, and trying to secure a place in some of the WGCs and majors next year, without which the sponsor-exemption route becomes a lot harder. Would still leave him the possibility of some SEs in the very early season while the ET is on safari in South Africa, and potentially a summer of invites if he plays his way into a big tournament and gets a good finish.

Ned,
Very possible - whatever course both Uihlein and Koepka choose, it could be instructive as to the new landscape of the Pro Tours post Q-School upheaval, especially with one or two (Casey and Fisher) Europeans returning to the E.T.. (Though sure Casey will be off like a dirty shirt when the chance arises - dismayed that he wouldn't play Gleneagles or CM.)

Wonder which E.T. players will be trying for a web.com card?

Cheers Kwini,

30 places between Koepka and Uihlein in the OWGR now... wonder how long their careers will stay in parallel. Big challenge still for Koepka to boost his ET earnings for the rest of the season - first target getting as high up the money list as possible for next year's exemption purposes (as things stand he'd be in the first of the CT/Q-school categories), then second target is the top 60 and a chance of a Dubai payday. No such worries for Uihlein with Dubai already guaranteed. Would be an interesting one to watch if one chose the sponsors' route in the US next year, and the other stayed in Europe...

Can't say I expect any European with an ET card for 2014 to try web.com q-school. More likely are some of the guys whose status is uncertain at best for next year, and were regular visitors to the old q-school... the likes of Garcia-Heredia, Lafeber (186th in the RTD), Dinwiddie (20th on the CT) and Pablo Martin (199th on the CT!). Not sure if it's exhaustive, but I spotted 5 European names getting through the pre-Q stage last week, with at least another 6 trying their hand this week.

Ned...   I like your thoughts on Uihlein... IMO his best route is to gain PGAT access via Special Temporary Membership...  IMO the early season you lined out for him makes a lot of sense.  He really needs the WGC's and or other big events to get enough starts on the PGAT to get his card.... thus busting it to try to make OWGR top-50 is paramount.  IMO the Euro Tour is the best avenue for that to happen.

- - - -

Kwini... I'm about 99% that TW has every intention of playing both the BMW and TC.  Since the majors were a wash, IMO he's after the next best thing(s) in his immediate grasp... Wins, FECup and POY.  And we heard him wax poetic about that "respect from his peers" thing via the POY vote just 2 weeks ago.  

Which circles us back to the Vardon and Money List.  He needs 7 more rounds to be Vardon eligible. Not only would he like to score that award for legacy building purposes, but the Vardon along with money list might very well be the "tie breaker" for some voters for POY (see Luke Donald in 2011).   And I'd bet dollars to donuts he's well aware of that.

Here's the status on some of those post season awards:

Money List - Assuming he can walk, and even if he didn't play the BMW... TW will wrap up the money title once he walks off the 72nd hole at the Tour Championship... even if he's DFL.   $128k for last place at the TC and then #2 in the money Kuchar couldn't catch with wins in both the BMW and TC.

Vardon Trophy - Going into the Deutsche Bank, the Vardon looked like all but a lock for Tiger in that he had a 4/10ths of a stroke lead over Adam Scott.  The only other player in even reasonable contention was Rose.   But after TW gagging the weekend at the DB... both Rose and Scott are in the "not unreasonable" range of contention now.  If Rose outscores Woods by 16 shots and/or Scott outscores Woods by 18 shots total in the last two events...  TW loses out on the Vardon.  (Stenson is roughly 24 shots behind)

And there's another scoring award... the PGA Tour's version (the Byron Nelson Award) which is based on only 50 rounds.   Steve Stricker has now jumped right in the middle of that one... or should I say jumped right near the top.  Steve is needing to score roughly 11 shots better than TW over the final two weeks to pass him in that one (assuming he plays both which he would need to qualify for the Nelson).  And I say roughly 11 shots because it's complicated due to the way the adjustments work  But safe to say at worst for Steve, no more than 12 shots lower and he passes Woods for the Byron Nelson Award.

Robo,

What are your thoughts on the voted POY award? The Vardon and Nelson awards might still be up for grabs but I'm struggling to see much chance of anyone overhauling TW when it comes to a vote. Would think the only ones realistically likely are Phil, Rose, Scott and Stenson, and any of those would need to win at least one of the final two events AND the overall FedEx to really have a chance. Unless someone goes back to back to finish their season, I guess.

Ned...   IMO if none of the major winners get that 3rd win... TW wins the POY vote in a walk.  

If one of those three (especially Phil) were to get another win, especially if there's a FeCup attached to it,  then IMO it's a real race.  And I put Phil a head above the others because IMO the a lot of the players won't completely ignore his win at the Scottish Open... Yeah... I know it's not a PGAT event... but doesn't matter. They might not consider it as highly as a PGAT win... but they know about it and would consider it IMO.  Plus I think Phil gets some "lifetime achievement" votes.

Stenson... no chance... he could win out and it wouldn't be enough...

The POY award is as tinpot as The Presidents Cup.

super_realist wrote:The POY award is as tinpot as The Presidents Cup.

You may think so... but I doubt you'd get ANY of the players to agree with you on that one. (especially the player vote version)

On the other hand, a lot of American players will ignore Phil's Open win . . . . .

The Presidents Cup has become ludicrous, especially with Finchem setting the rules for each team. Still, I'm sure it generates plenty of filthy lucre for Finchem and, hopefully, he'll spend some of it wisely, like subsidising the Tampa event until a bona fide sponsor rescues it.

O'Grady could learn a lot (although there's no sign that he's savvy enough to do so) from the way Finchem gives events just enough breathing space to survive. So long as they're in the Sun Belt.

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:The POY award is as tinpot as The Presidents Cup.

You may think so... but I doubt you'd get ANY of the players to agree with you on that one. (especially the player vote version)

I seem to remember a bunch of yanks griping that Luke Donald didn't deserve it, and some bible thumper did (Think it was Webb Simpson they were touting) despite Luke being a million miles ahead of anyone.

Seems to be a rather nepotistic award.

Kwini... I agree with your assessment that a player exempt for the Euro Tour would try Q-school to play on the Web.com Tour. But for players only Challenge Tour exempt... then it's more possible.. And I'll remind you that you can't necessarily tell who might play by pre-qualifying... as the following are exempt into 1st stage...

1. Members of Web.com Tour, Nationwide Tour, PGA TOUR, Japan Golf Tour, PGA European Tour, PGA Tour of Australasia, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Canadian Tour, Tour de las Americas, PGA Tour Canada or NEC Series - PGA TOUR Latinoamérica during the current or previous two (2) seasons.

2. Applicants that made the cut in a tournament awarding Official Money conducted by the Web.com Tour, PGA TOUR, PGA European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, PGA Tour of Australasia, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour, Canadian Tour, Tour de las Americas, PGA Tour Canada or NEC Series - PGA TOUR Latinoamérica during the current or previous season as of the Qualifying Tournament Pre-Qualifying entry deadline.

- - - - -

Bottom line... most anybody who broke an egg in pro golf anywhere (except for the sub-mini tours) gets exempted into first stage.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:The POY award is as tinpot as The Presidents Cup.

You may think so... but I doubt you'd get ANY of the players to agree with you on that one. (especially the player vote version)

I seem to remember a bunch of yanks griping that Luke Donald didn't deserve it, and some bible thumper did (Think it was Webb Simpson they were touting) despite Luke being a million miles ahead of anyone.

Seems to be a rather nepotistic award.

Actually the only other name I heard in serious contention for POY in Luke's year was Keegan Bradley who won a major + 1 regular event (where as Luke won 2 regular events).   And THAT seemed like a legitimate argument IMO. (even thought I thought Luke a better choice) But I didn't remember Webb Simpson being in remote consideration after he failed to win the FedEx Cup or money list.  

IMO what the voters showed by Voting for Luke over Keegan was it's not ALL about majors... AND they likely consider a players body of work outside the PGA Tour to at least some extent as well.

Limiting it to number of events won doesn't seem right. Goon Bradley might have won a major but no one came close to Donalds consistency that year. Didn't he have something like 12 top 10's?

Just like you can be man of the match but not score a goal.

super_realist wrote:Limiting it to number of events won doesn't seem right. Goon Bradley might have won a major but no one came close to Donalds consistency that year. Didn't he have something like 12 top 10's?

Just like you can be man of the match but not score a goal.

I couldn't agree with you more (except for your characterization of Keegan).  And I think the players agree as well as they obviously voted on Luke's body of work (which included those top-10's you mention, his Vardon Trophy, money list... etc)... thus bypassing Keegan who had the same number of wins but included a major.  

And since you feel the way you do... then can I take it you're supporting "nine-chins" for POY... as it stands right now at least... :-)

You don't think he's a goon? Can't stand the guy. OCD, slow, spitting, fairly ghastly as far as I can see. Not a golfer I like to watch, or see succeeding.

I think 9 Chins for POY is probably about right. He's been, despite his major bottling the most consistent player all year. Plenty tournament wins and several other high placings.

Although, you've got a case to make for Mickelson as he's also had an impressive year, (and isn't a c**t. )

With 2 WGC's and the Players (plus two more) it should be Tiger for POY - unless Phil or Scott takes the FEC (meaning they'd probably have to win again).

POY is voted for by the players and they know that the WGC's and the Players have the strongest fields.

pedro,
It's not just the strongest fields, it's the strongest courses that should also be taken in to account.
And this is where the WGC's and The Players fall short.
Doral and Firestone were already Tiger-centric favourites before they received WGC recognition so why should Woods get extra credit for going back to old stomping grounds?
Of this year's wins, I'd say The Players was an exceptional win, but certainly not a convincing win. The remainder were nothing more than the same old same old wins on favoured courses.
Now: If he were to win at Riviera or Copperhead or Colonial or Harbour Town that would be something else.
But no, he goes to the same old rota of courses but falls short of challenges provided by, say, Augusta National, Merion, Muirfield and Oak Hill.

Adam Scott for POTY for me, with two events still to go so much may change.

Don't buy that logic Kwin. Tiger certainly did not build Firestone (or Torrey Pines, etc.), and if you have as many PGA wins as he does you are certain to get some significant repeat venues. Why, on earth, avoid these courses if you win on them ... or why should winning on them become less meaningful?

Adam Scott, Phil Mickelson, Rory McIlroy etc. all have the ability to hit every type of shot needed to win at these same courses, so it IS about the strength of fields IMO.

The players will have their say and barring another win by Phil or Adam or Justin, it will be Tiger's.

Shotrock wrote:
Don't buy that logic Kwin. Tiger certainly did not build Firestone (or Torrey Pines, etc.), and if you have as many PGA wins as he does you are certain to get some significant repeat venues. Why, on earth, avoid these courses if you win on them ... or why should winning on them become less meaningful?

Adam Scott, Phil Mickelson, Rory McIlroy etc. all have the ability to hit every type of shot needed to win at these same courses, so it IS about the strength of fields IMO.

The players will have their say and barring another win by Phil or Adam or Justin, it will be Tiger's.

Or any one of about 40 other players.

Super - Again with the silly logic!

Name the 40 players who, with another win, with be named Player of the Year by their peers.

Sorry, thought you meant the next event given your gushing adoration of baldy nine chins.

I thought we'd established the miserable, petted lipped, half witted buffoon was going to win?

Super - Must admit, I find your posts highly entertaining ... and I mean that!

kwinigolfer wrote:pedro,
It's not just the strongest fields, it's the strongest courses that should also be taken in to account.
And this is where the WGC's and The Players fall short.
Doral and Firestone were already Tiger-centric favourites before they received WGC recognition so why should Woods get extra credit for going back to old stomping grounds?
Of this year's wins, I'd say The Players was an exceptional win, but certainly not a convincing win. The remainder were nothing more than the same old same old wins on favoured courses.
Now: If he were to win at Riviera or Copperhead or Colonial or Harbour Town that would be something else.
But no, he goes to the same old rota of courses but falls short of challenges provided by, say, Augusta National, Merion, Muirfield and Oak Hill.

Adam Scott for POTY for me, with two events still to go so much may change.

IMO the most wrongly used diminishment of Tiger's wins is: "It's one of his favored courses". To that I say SO WHAT? Is that to imply those setup's favor ONLY him? To that I call balderdash. Bottom line: You still have to play, and play WELL to win... against the depth of fields these days... NONE of them are easy.

couldnt agree more robo.

kwini, i believe you're allowing your personal feelings about Tiger to influence a lot of what you are saying in relation to his legacy and PoY eligibility. Mickelson would be ahead of Scott for me.

robo,
I understand that, but there should surely be a higher level against which the best are judged. And that is Major Championships.

At that level Tiger has come up short now for several years.

I give him great credit for being the last man standing at the TPC, but until he resumes Major Championship wins surely he's tacitly admitting that, at the very highest, most demanding level, he's been found wanting, while others - on their day admittedly - have prospered.

Let's face it, if he had to play Oak Hill, Merion or Muirfield every week he'd be just another also-ran. And there's nothing wrong with that. But he has four favourites coming up in 2014 and let's see how he does there.

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
I understand that, but there should surely be a higher level against which the best are judged. And that is Major Championships.

At that level Tiger has come up short now for several years.

I give him great credit for being the last man standing at the TPC, but until he resumes Major Championship wins surely he's tacitly admitting that, at the very highest, most demanding level, he's been found wanting, while others - on their day admittedly - have prospered.

Let's face it, if he had to play Oak Hill, Merion or Muirfield every week he'd be just another also-ran. And there's nothing wrong with that. But he has four favourites coming up in 2014 and let's see how he does there.

 But you seem to be missing the reality on the ground.  Of course majors are important... WAY more important than other events.  If they weren't, then why would there be even a hint of a discussion about POY this year?   But IMO where many fans (and much of the media go wrong) is they're losing sight of just how hard it is to win ANY event out there... especially the chalk field events.  Ask the player's... they'll tell ya.  In fact most of them interviewed over the past few weeks have told it exactly the way it is... basically all are "5 wins, WOW = POY".  

Bottom line... It's not like Tiger went out and won the John Deere and Valero Texas Open, it's about WHAT he won.  Three of those wins were against chalk fields where he beat all those same guys who won majors (plus the rest of the top-50 in the world)... and he beat 3 out of 4 in another.

And if there was ever an example of where the "It's All about majors" argument falls flat... then all we need to do is go back to 2011.  Let's see who wants to take away Luke Donald's POY from 2011 and give it to Keegan Bradley.  I could never support that, because Luke was CLEARLY the best player not only on the PGAT, but in the world that year... despite having a remarkably similar (or even worse) "major" campaign than Tiger had this year and 3 less wins than Tiger had this year.  But I guess that's the only way the "It's ALL about majors" crowd could have it... right?

What's a "chalk" field?

If the golf season was played over 25 events of maximum field strength on major set up courses tiger would still have five wins or more, and do it year after year.

Nobody else would manage more than two and would go many years without a win. In sport we often overlook the science and when it comes to golf many experiments have shown tiger wins a lot more often than other guys.

Using only Majors to judge a players ability relative to his competitors is a little a dodgy drug trail that only uses a small number of obscure patients with strange measures of success.

robo,
Agree that the PGA Tour will vote for Tiger; I'd vote for Scott because I discount stroke-play WGC's won by Americans, except the one in China; as shown on an earlier thread there's ample evidence that "International" golfers amp up for Majors but not Doral or Firestone despite recent wins by Rose and Scott.
Adam Scott has three Major Top 5's in his locker as well, so it's not as if he squeaked a Masters win and disappeared.
Comparisons with 2011 are a touch disingenuous as the real competition was between Webb Simpson and Lukey. Keegan's other win was in a field on a par with the John Deere and TX Open.

But two tournaments to go and would reckon it's fair to say both could have a bearing on this discussion!


Mac,
We're at 22 and counting so far and TW has lost the chance to win any more than 3!

McLaren wrote: many years without a win.

Bit like Baldy Nine Chins for a few years?

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Agree that the PGA Tour will vote for Tiger; I'd vote for Scott because I discount stroke-play WGC's won by Americans, except the one in China; as shown on an earlier thread there's ample evidence that "International" golfers amp up for Majors but not Doral or Firestone despite recent wins by Rose and Scott.
Adam Scott has three Major Top 5's in his locker as well, so it's not as if he squeaked a Masters win and disappeared.
Comparisons with 2011 are a touch disingenuous as the real competition was between Webb Simpson and Lukey. Keegan's other win was in a field on a par with the John Deere and TX Open.

But two tournaments to go and would reckon it's fair to say both could have a bearing on this discussion!

RE: "I'd vote for Scott because I discount stroke-play WGC's won by Americans, except the one in China;"

... HUH?   Try as I might... I can make exactly ZERO sense out of that statement... Lemme see if I have this correct... Outside of Tiger... International players have won 9 of the remaining 15 WGC's played in the United States since 2007. (6 by Tiger in that span).  So Stenson's, Singh's, Ogilvy's (2), Poulter's, Els', Donald's, Scott's, and Rose's count... but Tiger's, Mickelson's, Mahan's (2), Watney's, Bradley's and Kuchar's should be discounted???

Seriously???

And I'd disagree with you on the POY race in 2011, and further disagree bringing that up is in the least bit disingenuous.  Once Luke secured the money title... Webb was out of it and it was a 2 man race... between Keegan and Luke.  You can parse it all you want... but the fact remains Keegan won a major + an event.  But the voters did the right thing IMO selecting Luke on his full body of work despite his (Tiger-ish) major wash that year.

And sheesh... I hadn't heard all this talk about "high finish losses in majors" being so valuable... that is except from the crowd, who just in case Tiger gets to 100 wins and 20 majors, are arming themselves with their "Jack is still better cuz of all his 2nd's in majors" mantra.  

And as for Adam... Granted Scott notched high finishes in two other majors... Good right?... sure it is... but there's another way to look at it... LOST opportunity in the other two in which he contended.  Wouldn't this be just as accurate: Way to go Adam, you won the Masters, and even though you couldn't even beat a lousy Tiger in the U.S. Open, you did get in contention and take the lead in the Open before gagging that away with 4 straight bogey's on the back side to lose to Phil, but you did beat Tiger by one.. and despite a pretty putrid 3rd round and 3 more bogey's on the back nine on Sunday costing you the PGA... never mind all that, you beat Tiger right?  Sooooo  great playing Adam... you're POY for sure...  

Now look... I understand my "alternate" way of looking at Adam's other 3 majors borders on the ridiculous (even though not inaccurate)... but so does revering him for "going Westwood on us" and coughing up one major for sure and possibly another this year as well.

But YES... two events to go.   IMO if Scott or Phil win one of those (and Tiger doesn't win as well)... or Rose wins both...  there's your players vote for POY right there, close, but a major and 2 wins... especially with the quality of playoff wins and the most recent accomplishments being fresher on voters minds...  yep I think it would be enough for any of those other three

kwini

Kwini wrote:I discount stroke-play WGC's won by Americans

Would even super_realist make such a comment?

There has to be an explanation.  If not I am going back to reading Ian Carter blogs.

robo, Mac,
I'm just sick and tired of WGC's that are not WGC's. Who cares about Doral and Firestone? I'm not saying the PGA Tour discounts them; I'm just saying I don't give a fig about them, find them almost unwatchable as a commentary on world golfing excellence.

The overseas players who contest them are at least playing abroad, which offers some credence to the word "world".

I know the contra view that, if sponsorship existed elsewhere they'd be played elsewhere - well, perhaps.
But as it is Doral and Firestone have long since finished being at the top level of Tour courses, just home games for a select few. Good Tour events at the very best.

Oh well, tried to offer an alternative view (and certainly not a view I'd expect the Tour to adopt) - I just don't get the point of WGC's that are not "W". Never have, never will.

McLaren wrote:kwini

Kwini wrote:I discount stroke-play WGC's won by Americans

Would even super_realist make such a comment?

There has to be an explanation.  If not I am going back to reading Ian Carter blogs.

Says the man who can be quoted as saying he'd accept a hand job from a man?

Not perhaps ...

Professional Golf: Players will compete where they can make the "best" living (doesn't always mean the biggest purses, but you better make the living easy).

Want to wipe Augusta off the map? Hold a professional tournament that same weekend, Guarantee everyone who accepts your invitation $75 Million (or the $ that will get it done) ... and you watch what happens.

Discount stroke play WGC events won by Americans?  

Only Finchem would ever want to wipe Augusta off the map . . . . and doubt he would be so stupid.

Sr,
You know as well as I do that only a relative handful of top Americans eligible contest the WGC in China - doubtless the same would be true in Europe, Aus or South Africa. They didn't exactly pour in to Melbourne for the Match Play all those years ago and, lo and behold, back to La Costa (and on to Arizona).

Not sure where this is going, so won't post what I'm thinking.

Come on Aussie!

Here's why you don't let fans vote for PGA Tour Player of the Month. 4 of the 8 monthly pics to date rank from Huh? to Rediculious

January - Brian Gay wins POM even though Dustin Johnson won the Tournament of Champions and Tiger won against the Toughest field of the month at the Farmers - VERY QUESTIONABLE - at best

February - Brandt Snedeker is POM with a win and a 2nd place finish even though Matt Kuchar won the WGC Match Play the same month. Not unreasonable, could have been Sneds or Kuch IMO.

March - Tiger Woods is POM and is the only logical pick as he won 2 events in the month.

April - Adam Scott is the only reasonable choice by winning the Masters.

May - Boo Weekly wins over Tiger Woods after winning the 3rd strongest event of the month (Colonial_. Meanwhile Tiger wins the PLAYERS Championship and Kuchar wins the Memorial, behind the Players the strongest "regular" event of the year. CRAZY

June - Ken Duke wins the Travelers and gets POM over Justin Rose who wins the U.S. Open... That's NUTSO.

July - Phil Mickelson rightly gets POM by winning the Open Championship

August - Jason Dufner wins the PGA but loses POM to Tiger Woods who won a WGC. Come on man... REDICULIOUS

Kwin - Same!

Never even knew there was a Player of the Month. I think most people wouldn't give a toss especially when it's voted for by inbred, tartan trouser wearing, haven't seen their Winkle in 30 years, burger munching, redneck, flag waving, don't know what an Atlas is American armchair golf "fans".

Didn't Boo Weekley's missus initiate a charity-driven Facebook campaign to vote for her old man? Ballot-stuffing ensued and Hey Presto!!

kwinigolfer wrote:robo, Mac,
I'm just sick and tired of WGC's that are not WGC's. Who cares about Doral and Firestone? I'm not saying the PGA Tour discounts them; I'm just saying I don't give a fig about them, find them almost unwatchable as a commentary on world golfing excellence.

Yeah... it's an alternate view alright...

I just don't see how inviting the top-50 to 64 in the world, and/or plus winners of other reasonably rated events (from around the world) plus participants in Ryder or Presidents Cups (BOTH SIDES) isn't "worldly" enough. I'm starting to get the feeling that the only reason you like the HSBC is because it does the most of any WGC to EXCLUDE Americans or some of the Americans choose not to play.

kwinigolfer wrote:Didn't Boo Weekley's missus initiate a charity-driven Facebook campaign to vote for her old man? Ballot-stuffing ensued and Hey Presto!!

Seems like the voting trend follow the dreadful parochial TV coverage. .

"Win a major in great style? Not American, sorry son, Buck Borgenwiener came 5th in his collegiate trials. POM"

robo,
Apples and oranges.
That comment was only made in response to Shotrock's saying that golf professionals "will compete where they can make the best living".

I AM saying that I like WGC's to be spread around the world - don't really care about the Match Play, having said that, because match play is a different beast.

All the Major and WGC (except Match Play) tournaments have field biases, haven't honestly looked at eligibility criteria for the HSBC. But if 50% of qualified Americans have rocked up over the past half dozen years I'd be very surprised.

Kwin - Huh??

You made that comment before I made the "will compete where they can make the best living".

People bemoan the WGC's as not being worldly enough... well then... my suggestion is for the rest of the world to get off their A***'s and fix them.  Here's a clue... All you have to do is schedule them in a way they are convenient to play for the majority of the world's top players.... just like the American's do.  If you deliver the top players... then it's a LOT easier to get the top sponsors.

Would it be all that difficult?   HAYELL NO. How about lobby to make the event the week before or after the OPEN a WGC... (but in Europe and NOT in the UK with their wacky tax deal or get a UK tax waiver) Likely 98% of the WGC eligible would aslo be  Open eligible and would stay (or come early) and play.  Then maybe add another one in the Pacific Rim area within a period of 1-2 weeks before or 1-2 weeks after the HSBC (kind of like the Match Play and Cadillic is coupled now).   With the HSBC now fully official on the PGAT, IMO more American's will participate in that one already, and if they can make a three week trip out of it... with some decent options in Australia, Japan, Korea, or elsewhere in Asia in between the two WGC's.. BINGO.... there you have it.   Good event candidates might be to convert the Aussie Masters to a WGC... or maybe the Dunlop Phoenix... Don't you think the sponsors would go for THAT?   You can bet your left nad they would...

Bottom line..... Yeah, yeah.... yeah.  I get it.  It's fashionable to blame the American's or Finchem for everything... when the truth of the matter remains that any reasonable display of competence from "the rest of the worlds" golf leadership could solve this "world" thing in a heartbeat.... at least to a large extent.... sheesh... ya bunch of whiners... :-)

Completely agree with your last sentence robo. That is the crux of the matter and why I try and focus on what O'Grady should do to make Europe, at any rate, stronger in this regard.

As for the rest, the PGA Tour has the strongest, most savvy and well-connected leader in Tim Finchem. Of that there is no doubt and is acknowledged weekly.

But: It doesn't make him right in everything and certainly doesn't make it good for World Golf.

It serves most of its constituency superbly, however, and for that he is to be congratulated.

Just PLEASE don't expect observers from the ROTW necessarily to agree with everything.

As for Sr, sorry mate, I'm exhausted. Think I'll watch some top Europeans. In Flushing!

Kwin - You'll have lots to cheer about in Flushing ... look for an Andy Murray repeat