Feel bad for Bradley

Ever since he got the nod over Pac, it feels like this sport is out to get Bradley. And he is a really nice guy.

Latest mess is with the testing for the Marquez fight. Bradley wants VADA, thought he was getting VADA and is getting something far less. Many people question Marquez over his recent beastlyness, and you can say what you want about it, but Tim is a clean fighter who is even going to pay for his own testing with VADA. Can you believe that?!

http://thaboxingvoice.com/Tim-Bradley-On-The-Marquez-Testing-Issue-And-Why-He-Went-Through-With-The-Fight

I always thought Bradley himself looked very muscular and cut, just an observation.

How's ir going Sean, long time no speak on here (though our Twitters remain active haha).

This runs deeper again, I spoke to Victor Conte a few months back about the VADA usage for a potental Bradley/Marquez fight - it was never set in stone, but the VADA testing was pushed (they've recently tested Donaire under their 24/7-365 program).

They're results are independent so they're not tied down contractually like USADA (who GBP contract for their tests) or have a financial interest like Athletic State Commissions - which means the results they post are fair and accurate.

VADA have picked up Berto and Peterson in recent years so you know they're not a push over.

This is where it gets deeper:

Victor Conte - as shady as his past is, is a major consultant for VADA. He promotes them wholeheartedly, mainly because "if VADA were around 15 years ago, no one would have got away with the doping".

Marquez recently appointed a guy called Memo Hernandez (or Angel Herédia) to be his conditioning coach, this is the same guy who worked with Conte during the BALCO scandal and claimed his complete innocence in the scandal, despite compelling evidence against him (provided by Conte who wound up doing time) - Although he was initially banned from working with any sportsman/woman after the scandal, the guy simply changed his name, set up his own company and is now the Jamaican teams conditioning coach - yes, the same guy who has been feeding the PROVEN DRUG CHEAT JAMAICANS their "protein" shakes.

.. when he found that VADA were appointed to do the tests, he and Marquez swiftly left the US and left for Mexico and couldn't be contacted by VADA to arrange random testing.

Hernandez/Heredia claimed some bull excuse: he was never made aware of the testing and as far as he was aware, no contracts have been signed for the testing to take place... they've nothing to hide from. Yet they've no provided a single sample.

It refreshing to see Bradley pay for his own testing and prove he's a clean fighter (as did Donaire). What ISN'T refreshing is the lack of management from Arum to support clean fighters or improve the methods of dope testing by allowing Marquez to shy away from the tests.

I'm a massive Marquez fan, but as a boxing fan, his relationship with Heredia is suspect and I've no doubt he's using.

Look in to it online (even ask Conte himself) it's crazy how Heredia is getting away with it.

In a nutshell...

Heredia doesn't want VADA to go near his fighter because he knows he'll get caught out. Conte knows Heredia inside out, his methods and the substances he uses + the balances of different substances to hide positive results.

For example: use of clenbutorol to hide andro-testosterones + Finesteride to hide the DHT + high rich Vitimin D to hide the clen - USADA would show a slightly higher testosterone count, around a 0.9 - VADA would state this is 3 times higher than a normal human level of 0.3 after extensive training. Therfore VADA would state the test would be suspect.

Heredia can get away with it with USADA or State Commissions, but not with VADA.

Hope that makes sense?

The good news is that Heredia has teamed up with Alex Ariza.

School Project wrote:How's ir going Sean, long time no speak on here (though our Twitters remain active haha).

This runs deeper again, I spoke to Victor Conte a few months back about the VADA usage for a potental Bradley/Marquez fight - it was never set in stone, but the VADA testing was pushed (they've recently tested Donaire under their 24/7-365 program).

They're results are independent so they're not tied down contractually like USADA (who GBP contract for their tests) or have a financial interest like Athletic State Commissions - which means the results they post are fair and accurate.

VADA have picked up Berto and Peterson in recent years so you know they're not a push over.

This is where it gets deeper:

Victor Conte - as shady as his past is, is a major consultant for VADA. He promotes them wholeheartedly, mainly because "if VADA were around 15 years ago, no one would have got away with the doping".

Marquez recently appointed a guy called Memo Hernandez (or Angel Herédia) to be his conditioning coach, this is the same guy who worked with Conte during the BALCO scandal and claimed his complete innocence in the scandal, despite compelling evidence against him (provided by Conte who wound up doing time) - Although he was initially banned from working with any sportsman/woman after the scandal, the guy simply changed his name, set up his own company and is now the Jamaican teams conditioning coach - yes, the same guy who has been feeding the PROVEN DRUG CHEAT JAMAICANS their "protein" shakes.

.. when he found that VADA were appointed to do the tests, he and Marquez swiftly left the US and left for Mexico and couldn't be contacted by VADA to arrange random testing.

Hernandez/Heredia claimed some bull excuse: he was never made aware of the testing and as far as he was aware, no contracts have been signed for the testing to take place... they've nothing to hide from. Yet they've no provided a single sample.

It refreshing to see Bradley pay for his own testing and prove he's a clean fighter (as did Donaire). What ISN'T refreshing is the lack of management from Arum to support clean fighters or improve the methods of dope testing by allowing Marquez to shy away from the tests.

I'm a massive Marquez fan, but as a boxing fan, his relationship with Heredia is suspect and I've no doubt he's using.

Look in to it online (even ask Conte himself) it's crazy how Heredia is getting away with it.

Nice to hear form you Schoolproject and nice write up. I feel much the same way you do with Marquez. Always been a big fan but this recent relationship with Heredia and his unwillingness to use VADa is suspect.

Strongback - The keyword with Bradley is 'always' - if he has always looked a certainw way i.e. cut - then what is there to be suspect about. Especially when the man is paying for the best testing there is out of his own pocket? Silly comment really.

From the time I watched him beat witter, I thought Bradley was a very useful fighter. I remember being roundly ridiculed on a thread for  suggesting I thought he might beat hatton too, and I've read countless people writing him off but he's still unbeaten ( on paper at least).

It's certainly an Understatement to say he's not the most exciting fighter or character, but he seems a decent guy and what I've read in the run up to this fight just reiterates what a sham of a mockery drug testing in boxing is. I hope Bradley pancakes the all new turbo charged jmm.

Bit Harsh Milky, bearing in mind the "turbo" version of JMM is just pure hear say and no concrete proof.

There's more than enough circumstantial evidence to suggest something untoward has/is going on though.

Bradley is like Ward excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

He isn't a Vegan Jabby, it's his training method rather than a whole life choice.

School Project wrote:How's ir going Sean, long time no speak on here (though our Twitters remain active haha).

This runs deeper again, I spoke to Victor Conte a few months back about the VADA usage for a potental Bradley/Marquez fight - it was never set in stone, but the VADA testing was pushed (they've recently tested Donaire under their 24/7-365 program).

They're results are independent so they're not tied down contractually like USADA (who GBP contract for their tests) or have a financial interest like Athletic State Commissions - which means the results they post are fair and accurate.

VADA have picked up Berto and Peterson in recent years so you know they're not a push over.

This is where it gets deeper:

Victor Conte - as shady as his past is, is a major consultant for VADA. He promotes them wholeheartedly, mainly because "if VADA were around 15 years ago, no one would have got away with the doping".

Marquez recently appointed a guy called Memo Hernandez (or Angel Herédia) to be his conditioning coach, this is the same guy who worked with Conte during the BALCO scandal and claimed his complete innocence in the scandal, despite compelling evidence against him (provided by Conte who wound up doing time) - Although he was initially banned from working with any sportsman/woman after the scandal, the guy simply changed his name, set up his own company and is now the Jamaican teams conditioning coach - yes, the same guy who has been feeding the PROVEN DRUG CHEAT JAMAICANS their "protein" shakes.

.. when he found that VADA were appointed to do the tests, he and Marquez swiftly left the US and left for Mexico and couldn't be contacted by VADA to arrange random testing.

Hernandez/Heredia claimed some bull excuse: he was never made aware of the testing and as far as he was aware, no contracts have been signed for the testing to take place... they've nothing to hide from. Yet they've no provided a single sample.

It refreshing to see Bradley pay for his own testing and prove he's a clean fighter (as did Donaire). What ISN'T refreshing is the lack of management from Arum to support clean fighters or improve the methods of dope testing by allowing Marquez to shy away from the tests.

I'm a massive Marquez fan, but as a boxing fan, his relationship with Heredia is suspect and I've no doubt he's using.

Look in to it online (even ask Conte himself) it's crazy how Heredia is getting away with it.

Really interesting but would tickled me slightly was this one line:

"if VADA were around 15 years ago, no one would have got away with the doping".

Does this suggest that VADA are currently only 15 years behind the cheats????

How is there Terror? Because he is teaming up with a former drug cheat? And then add the farce with Arum and his contractual disputes with VADA etc etc?

This has only come about since he pancaked Pacquiao.

Not being funny, but a similar situation was said about Pacquiao in negotiations with Mayweather.

All of it is interlinked, he hadn't teamed up with Heredia until the 3rd fight with Pacquiao and everything you have mentioned is circumstantial evidence. You can't prove anything because of it but it leads to a lot of suspicions being raised, add up all the small things and it ends up being a big thing.

I was originally gonna kick the hornets nest and say something controversial... But since this seems like mature discussion on doping (a 606 first, it actually took 12 posts before Manny was mentioned) I'll add in with my well-though out words of wisdom...

Id hate to say JMM was doping, guy seems genuinely nice, and in fairness he had a year to prepare for Manny in 2012. Lots of time to develop into the mini-beast we saw in Pac-Mar IV. But there are very valid questions regarding Marquez, and this bump in testing rases questions. Maybe its just me, but Ive always been more curious about fighters who want a specific type of testing... It just creates, imo a suspicion that you have tailored your "Supplements". Again Im not saying Marquez is doping, and Lord knows that the Manny KO was pure skill, and physics, but I mean, when youre trainer has an alias, and now doesnt want you to be tested by the most thorough system in boxing... well

Or maybe like you said, JMM had trained full for a year and slowly grew into the weight using the right conditioning hence the slight increase in power.

Lets also be honest here, Pacquiao has never really had a good defence, and if you lunge, full whack, into someone who is no longer there, but in return get hit with a full on punch flush on the chin, its going to knock you out simple as that.

Credit where credit is due, and until some concrete facts come out, im not jumping on the PED Bandwagon just because some guy, who was robbed in previous fights, tore up the script and knocked out cold a guy considered P4P number 1 or 2.

Fair play for setting the record straight and putting the Pacquiao train behind him. Now onto Bradley who I think he will beat, but would not be surprised by a controversial Bradley decision.

Who knows........what I do know is that speculation no matter how big or small, does not result in facts.......for now.

The problem is in 36 previous rounds he barely put a dent in Manny despite hitting him plenty as Manny jumped in then at 36 or 37 years old he develops new found power in a weight class where he previously looked terrible and sparks a guy with a granite chin, all after hooking up with a proven steroid dealer, there's a little bit to be suspicious of.

bellchees wrote:The problem is in 36 previous rounds he barely put a dent in Manny despite hitting him plenty as Manny jumped in then at 36 or 37 years old he develops new found power in a weight class where he previously looked terrible and sparks a guy with a granite chin, all after hooking up with a proven steroid dealer, there's a little bit to be suspicious of.

Or he packed on a lot of muscle naturally which slowed him down quite a bit - giving him a lot of power (at the expense of speed) but making Manny look much better than he had in ages. Manny lunges in, gets a brutal one right on the chin and is sparked unconscious.

But he wasnt slowe than he was in III, was he? No he wasnt.

Cheers Sean, no doubt you saw the little spat I had with Heredia about the lack of testing his fighters go through. The guy never answers a question with a straight answer!

@ Huw - lol. VADA have, in all fairness, a very stringent testing regime, far more advanced than what I've heard about USADA or WADA. The fact of the matter is, although there's no evidence of JMM using gear, his team arnt doing a great deal to dispel that HUGE question mark.

Victor Conte showed he is a reformed character in the sport, he's worked hard to do so... Heredia however? Running away from drug tests kind of implies he's hiding something.

@ Shah - there's no doubt JMM hit Manny with the perfect shot, it would have put any welter on his arse. After all, Manny launched his face into JMMs fist.

Also, check out this recap of a Heredia interview... it's from an interview with a Danish guy called Speigel (you can access the same interviews on other sites).

www.fighthype.com/pages/content11165.html

The guy basically know how to dope his guys and knows how to hide the results. He's also very proud of it!

I'd give him a year until he slips up, the fallout would be massive too (*cough* Bolt! *cough*)

kingraf wrote:But he wasnt slowe than he was in III, was he? No he wasnt.

Manny was landing around 50% of his power punches - either Marquez slowed or Manny's on Speedy Gonzalez's PED program

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Bradley is like Ward  excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

Didn't Ward 'work' with Victor Conte?

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Bradley is like Ward  excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

Didn't Ward 'work' with Victor Conte?

Yeah, he's also passed everyone of his drug tests.

I put that down to Marquez going for the KO.

School Project wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Bradley is like Ward  excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

Didn't Ward 'work' with Victor Conte?

Yeah, he's also passed everyone of his drug tests.

Hasn't Marquez?

mobilemaster8 wrote:8"]Bit Harsh Milky, bearing in mind the "turbo" version of JMM is just pure hear say and no concrete proof.

It's just hearsay, innocent until proven guilty, Manny may well have been on them too. All fair points.

It's just, well, like Flo-jo.  A very decent athlete for years, suddenly turns up with a completely new physique, and chucks out a few world records out of the blue. She never failed a drug test... but well, we all knew the score. I'm sure there are plenty of fitness gurus you can go to to beef up a bit. Really why would you choose Heredia? Why? I mean why? He has one area of expertise.

I'd like to believe jmm is on the level, really I would, just as I'd like to believe the moon is made of camembert.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

School Project wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Bradley is like Ward  excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

Didn't Ward 'work' with Victor Conte?

Yeah, he's also passed everyone of his drug tests.

Hasn't Marquez?

No tests were complete for the Pacquaio fight (neither camp felt it was needed) and he only started using around the time he fought Fechenko (which was a fight in Mexico and again, no tests were completed).

The fight against Bradley will be dealt with by the NASC who allow 3 times the natural amount of testosterone levels in your body. They don't test for synthetics (oxys, anabolics or fluoxy). They purely just check the testosterone levels of a fighter with 3 samples (A,B and C) - if the A Sample is dodgy, they'll test the B sample and see if there's a change in levels of testosterone and any usage of gear... it's how Morales was caught using clenbuterol but no other substance (clen activates the kidneys and masks anabolics).

So even if Marquez is tested by a commission (rather than a dedicated anti-doping agency) he's likely to get away with it, because Memo knows how to hide the synthetics.

VADA is feared by these guys.

How do you know Bradley is clean ???........You don't........

I read Armstrong's "Not about the bike" book where he had nothing but contempt for users.....

and that he was glad he'd had a second chance..............

no offence but you don't know Bradley...That Jamaican sprinter poured scorn on cheats and now she's outed as one!!! Anyway he's lucky he is in a big fight with Marquez as he got a gift against Manny and now he's earning shed loads...

Bradley's problem is he hasn't got a personality...in a PR age..

Feel sorry for people who deserve it..

Look at Jabby...Owned some greats and still has to work a day job..

"How do you know Bradley is clean ???........You don't........"

Don't think anyone claims to know Bradley on a personal level, but in an age of sport when steroid usage is rife and everyone seems to complain about it. Tim Bradley (personality or not) has willingly paid for his own independent test with an anti-doping agency who make USADA and State Commissions look like absolute amateurs.

It's called setting an example.

USADA tests are urine easy to pass when you neutralise the correct compounds in your body.VADA (with 24/7 testing) is somewhat (a LOT) more difficult to fudge.

I feel sorry for any sportsman who isn't getting a fair shake.

Can you imagine working your arse off all your life to perform at the highest level, only to find out that the 4 or 5 guys ahead of you are geared up? ala Armstrong & co?

It's called knowing he's clean at the time..

School Project wrote:"How do you know Bradley is clean ???........You don't........"

Don't think anyone claims to know Bradley on a personal level, but in an age of sport when steroid usage is rife and everyone seems to complain about it. Tim Bradley (personality or not) has willingly paid for his own independent test with an anti-doping agency who make USADA and State Commissions look like absolute amateurs.

It's called setting an example.

USADA tests are urine easy to pass when you neutralise the correct compounds in your body.VADA (with 24/7 testing) is somewhat (a LOT) more difficult to fudge.

I feel sorry for any sportsman who isn't getting a fair shake.
Can you imagine working your arse off all your life to perform at the highest level, only to find out that the 4 or 5 guys ahead of you are geared up? ala Armstrong & co?

I'm sure the testers ensure every drop of urine is extracted from the offending area

Even in this country about 10 years PED use was prevalent at the lowest levels of cycling, I did a fair bit of road training in france and you see guys who couldn't keep pace up a mountain suddenly break you as if not even trying. Being a small local team meant we didn't get tested so the guys could take whatever they wanted but going from having dreams of being a super domestique to being a water carrier was hard to take.

We should all hope and pray Bradley is clean as the result could be that Junior Witter is restrospectively given a World title.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's called knowing he's clean at the time..

At what time exactly?

Donaire was tested by VADA (randomly may I add) for 26 months, between fights and during training. If any anomolies are picked up they are addressed immediately, rather than awaiting a set test date... so for example, rather than knowingly you'll show clean on your designated test date, you are allowing a team of anti-doping Doctors access to test you at any time.

If you're on a cycle of anabolics > clen - they'll be picked up.

Regardless of whether Bradley has appointed VADA now, last year or next year, he's setting an example to other boxers and more importantly other doping agencies.

George St Pierre has recently signed up due to the stupid amount of growth usage in the UFC.

Here's some light reading for you Truss, I doubt you will look, but the options there:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1446135-nonito-donaire-and-why-boxing-needs-to-adopt-vada-drug-testing-immediately

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-boxing-news/nonito-donaire-goes-all-in-with-247365-vada-testing

Mate whilst It would be nice to believe everyone is clean...You have a 400m woman winning golds who forgot to take three tests in a row..She is fierce-ly anti-drugs but just forgetful...

Experience has taught me in life that a lot of the  backstabbers in this World are people who you think are your friends...

I don't trust anybody but my family...

Bradley seems to be going out of his way to show he's clean..........Which is good but like I always say..sometimes..

The lady doth protest too mucheth..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate whilst It would be nice to believe everyone is clean...You have a 400m woman winning golds who forgot to take three tests in a row..She is fierce-ly anti-drugs but just forgetful...

Experience has taught me in life that a lot of the  backstabbers in this World are people who you think are your friends...

I don't trust anybody but my family... Bradley seems to be going out of his way to show he's clean..........Which is good but like I always say..sometimes..

The lady doth protest too mucheth..

Can't speak for others on the forum but I'm deeply offended and hurt by this.

I was going to call you TRUSTMAN as well but you can forget it now  

My family and DAVE...

 

School Project wrote:

VADA is feared by these guys.

They should fear all of the Sith Lords.

School Project wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

School Project wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Bradley is like Ward  excellent boxer but christ, boring and spoils. He's also a vegan meaning he's exceptionally careful with what he puts into his body - I highly doubt he'd ever use.

Marquez on the other hand....well the evidence certainly suggests.....

Didn't Ward 'work' with Victor Conte?

Yeah, he's also passed everyone of his drug tests.

Hasn't Marquez?

No tests were complete for the Pacquaio fight (neither camp felt it was needed) and he only started using around the time he fought Fechenko (which was a fight in Mexico and again, no tests were completed).

The fight against Bradley will be dealt with by the NASC who allow 3 times the natural amount of testosterone levels in your body. They don't test for synthetics (oxys, anabolics or fluoxy). They purely just check the testosterone levels of a fighter with 3 samples (A,B and C) - if the A Sample is dodgy, they'll test the B sample and see if there's a change in levels of testosterone and any usage of gear... it's how Morales was caught using clenbuterol but no other substance (clen activates the kidneys and masks anabolics).

So even if Marquez is tested by a commission (rather than a dedicated anti-doping agency) he's likely to get away with it, because Memo knows how to hide the synthetics.

VADA is feared by these guys.

So Marquez has never failed a test.

Shane Mosley, he passed VADA testing on a couple of occasions I guess we should be looking up to him.

You're right..best not to take everybody at face value..

Truss' logic

Everyone is a cheat until proven innocent

But then he'll say "innocent until proven guilty"

So not knowing Bradley is clean yet no evidence to suggest otherwise isn't enough to make the assumption yet Marquez having plenty of evidence to suggest there are issues around it with him missing tests, his team being involved with previous etc and such isn't enough to suggest that there could be a chance?

Silly argument again Trustman.

When has Moseley completed a VADA test?

Besides, the guy was geared up before, admitted using.

What makes me laugh the most is that, no matter how much of a problem it is in the sport, there will be denialists and others who are happy to contrive the point...

SPORT has a problem with users and distributors of steroids, a couple of sportsmen come forward for testing of the OWN FREE WILL and pay for it themselves with a company with the highest level of anti-doping and instead of having a pat on the back they're laughed at or questioned for their motives?

Woeful.

surprised you trust your family truss... given the way your Mrs puts it about

i have so little faith in drug testing in boxing that even if i see a tiny puff of smoke i automatically think there's a raging fire

jmm's link up with the drug cheat and very surprising knockout of manny is enough to start questioning

Everyone's allowed a second chance.

Manny was knocked out due to himself as much as JMM. He lunged in wide open with all of his weight and was countered. It was probably a once in a lifetime shot from JMM as he had never landed "That" kind of punch in the previous 3 fights.

Pacquiao got carless and JMM took advantage.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's called knowing he's clean at the time..

Not if you don't know when the time is going to be, as in the case of Donaire's 24/7/365 scheme.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's called knowing he's clean at the time..

Not if you don't know when the time is going to be, as in the case of Donaire's 24/7/365 scheme.

Nice to see someone else seeing sense Toppy!
 
All year round and random testing (during training and when a fighter is having a break) may seem extreme... but guys ARE signing up for it.
 
If I was a clean sportsman and wanted a fair playing field, I would urge for this too.
 
Last year, Memo Hernandez himself said of the 2012 London Olympics: "Out of the 10 guys racing, 8 will be doped. The difference between 10 seconds and 9.70 seconds in the 100 meters is down to the drugs"...

Fair playing field indeed. Oh, this also comes from a guy who is the conditioning coach of Usain Bolt!

Yeh, thanks for summarising it all for me though SP. Been following Gabe Montoya on Twitter but never quite got a handle on the ins and outs.