Edinburgh V Dragons

by **RDW** Mon 09 Sep 2013, 9:17 pm

Edinburgh Rugby V Newport Gwent Dragons

Friday 13th September 2013, KO 19:45
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh

Referee: [TBC]
Assistant Referees: [TBC]
Citing Commissioner: [TBC]
TMO: [TBC]

A. Teams:

Edinburgh cuppa

15 Greig Tonks

14 Nikki Walker

13 Dougie Fife

12 Nick De Luca

11 Tim Visser

10 Harry Leonard

9 Sean Kennedy

1 Alasdair Dickinson

2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN

3 Willem Nel

4 Grant Gilchrist

5 Izak van der Westhuizen

6 Dimitri Basilaia

7 Roddy Grant

8 David Denton

Substitutes

16 Aleki Luitui

17 Wicus Blaauw

18 Geoff Cross

19 Sean Cox

20 Hamish Watson

21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

22 Michael Tait

23 Jack Cuthbert

Dragons Wales

Dan Evans, Matthew Pewtner, Pat Leach, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos, Jason Tovey, Richie Rees; Owen Evans, T.Rhys Thomas (c), Dan Way, Adam Jones, Matthew Screech, Lewis Evans, Nic Cudd, Netani Talei.

B. Form - head to head:

22 Played 22
8 Wins 13
1 Draws 1
45 Tries 49
36 Conversions 30
43 Penalties 46
0 Drop Goals 3
426 Points 452
25 Avg. Age 25

C. Form - last season:

Dragons 32 - Edinburgh 12

Edinburgh 31 - Dragons 24

by **RDW** Mon 09 Sep 2013, 9:20 pm

Edinburgh's first home game sees their bogey team come fresh from a great win over Ulster. Edinburgh on the other hand have a brand new coaching team barely a month in the country, and were run ragged in stages last week and went on to ship 5 tries to Munster.

Edinburgh really need to win to give the coaching team something to build on, but can the Dragons build on a promising start and get 2 in a row?

looking forward to it!

by Guest Mon 09 Sep 2013, 10:42 pm

I don't know about this one. Think there could be a few tries in it, as we could both spread the ball a bit on Murrayfield's pitch.

We are probably getting Toby back for this game. Ideally, I'd go Talei 6 and Toby 8 for it, but I'm not sure whether Lyn will go for Groves and Evans again. I think we need to start the props that finished v Ulster (Price and Chaparro) and possibly Adam Jones instead of Screech.

As good as Leach and Dixon were defensively v Ulster, I wonder whether Lyn might consider an Adam Hughes/Ross Wardle type player at 13, to offer something a bit different.

by maestegmafia Mon 09 Sep 2013, 10:51 pm

I would love to see Dixon and Hughes get a run of games.

The coaches have done some great work on the front five during the summer. I didnt think there was too much difference between starters and Subs. Chaparro looks a good signing.

Toby and Talai would be quite an awesome combination

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 7:03 am

Toby and talei is the last thing us Edinburgh fans want to see.

We still can't believe the powers at be let him go - when he's interested he's one of the best 8s in the league. The problem with him is that he's sometimes not interested!

I'm also not overly convinced our team will cope overly well with 2 big carriers

by **George Carlin** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:07 am

Nice thread!

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:09 am

Learnt from the best! Very Happy

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:27 am

To be honest and serious (even for just a brief second), I don't think Embra MFLs should worry too much about the result - for once, and once only, I actually believe the performance is more important. Solomons has indicated that you are effectively undergoing pre-season now and will continue with it for a couple more weeks, so even if the results don't come, the manner in which you play will at least hopefully be more representative of the direction he wants you to go. It will just be nice to see the players playing with some heart heart

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:57 am

Are we really Edinburgh's bogey team? I thought we had a poor record at Murrayfield.

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:02 am

Luckless – you have the better head to head and I can remember at least 2 defeats at Murrayfield in the past few years, and I can’t remember if we’ve ever one at Rodney, so you are a team we don’t like playing!

ASBO – I appreciate what you are saying but I don’t want the team to ever be satisfied with losing, and I’m sure Solomons feels the same way. You are right in that we need to look at the bigger picture, but I don’t want this “we’ve just got our new coaches” excuse to rumble on for too long. That is just the situation we are in, and the majority of the squad is the same as previous years, so enough of the excuses and let’s find a way to win!

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:12 am

I remember one win you had at Rodney Parade - back when Brendan Laney was playing.

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:15 am

Was that the game where we scored a last play of the game try to level the game then were given a penalty because the opposition player smacked our player late, meaning Laney had a penalty from the halfway line, kicked it and won the game??

My worst memory of a Dragons game at Murrayfield was when it was horrific weather – the worst I’ve seen at a rugby game – and there were around 1500 people in the crowd because the weather was so awful. You guys won the game in what was horrendous game of rugby.

by munkian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:16 am

Really hope they give Toby a run at this, even if its just for 20 mins in the 2nd half. Want him nice and ready for the Turks game, got to be our day this year !!!

Really want Adam Hughes in the centre again

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:16 am

That rings a bell, RDW. Earlier in the match Laney and a few other Edinburgh players were arguing amongst themselves behind the posts as we were lining up a conversion. There was a bit of shoving, as I recall it.

by IanBru Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:28 am

Can we hurry up and talk about Glasgow on here?

by munkian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:32 am

Is the Embra game televised lads ?

by **George Carlin** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:32 am

There is also a disappointing lack of information about Gavin Henson on this thread.
At least the Chainsaw has been mentioned.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:40 am

I can't begin to imagine how many tackles we'd miss against Falateu and Talei! We basically allowed Munster to offload the ball at will, so these two will have a fun outing together if used in tandem. Hopefully they'll rest them both....

Key for Edinburgh will be to make sure all 23 players are fully fit. It was a mistake using VDW and Atiga against Munster. Neither were fit, and we were blown away in the first half. Only fit players please. I'd quite like to see Atkins given a start with Gilchrist, and perhaps start with Grant at 6 and Watson at 7, with Cox and Basilia on the bench. Same front row as last time, with Niven starting if Dickinson remains injured. Was impressed with Niven against Munster. Good scrummaging and showed up in the loose as well.

We need this win badly. It would give a real confidence booster to the players (and us poor fans...) and the coaches to see some of the new changes etc. taking effect quickly.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:41 am

IanBru wrote:Can we hurry up and talk about Glasgow on here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143850/Glasgow-neighbourhood-9-10-adults-welfare-crowned-benefits-capital-Britain.html

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:44 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:I can't begin to imagine how many tackles we'd miss against Falateu and Talei! We basically allowed Munster to offload the ball at will, so these two will have a fun outing together if used in tandem. Hopefully they'll rest them both....

Key for Edinburgh will be to make sure all 23 players are fully fit. It was a mistake using VDW and Atiga against Munster. Neither were fit, and we were blown away in the first half. Only fit players please. I'd quite like to see Atkins given a start with Gilchrist, and perhaps start with Grant at 6 and Watson at 7, with Cox and Basilia on the bench. Same front row as last time, with Niven starting if Dickinson remains injured. Was impressed with Niven against Munster. Good scrummaging and showed up in the loose as well.

We need this win badly. It would give a real confidence booster to the players (and us poor fans...) and the coaches to see some of the new changes etc. taking effect quickly.

Disagree, I think you need a performance more than the win - and I'm afraid the win looks unlikely imo

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 11:51 am

I think a performance and a win should really come hand in hand against the Dragons. They may have really turned a corner this season with that win against Ulster, but by all accounts Ulster were really poor and undercooked so difficult to assess whether the Dragons were really good, or Ulster really bad on the day.

There are only 3 or 4 games for Edinburgh in a season where the fans and players expect to win: Zebre, Dragons, Connacht and Treviso at Murrayfield, and Zebre away.

I expect us to win those games, and perhaps have a good crack at the Scarlets and Cardiff as well when they come to Murrayfield.

Not high expectations, but if we start losing these fixtures then heads will go down, and it'll be harder for the coaches to convince the players that they are on the right track.

by Guest Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:05 pm

Ulster were less undercooked than us, as we only played one preseason game. They were pretty poor, but also we didn't let them play.

I don't expect to get anything up there As. Not sure the win looks unlikely for Embra. I think it'll be close, but they'll probably sneak it.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:24 pm

To be clear I think it'll be close as well, and I'm not suggesting for a split second that this will be a comfortable win for Edinburgh (we never win any game comfortably).

I just think, at home, it's not unreasonable or unrealistic for us Edinburgh fans to expect us to edge the Dragons. I certainly won't "expect" us to win the return fixture mind you.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:42 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:There are only 3 or 4 games for Edinburgh in a season where the fans and players expect to win: Zebre, Dragons, Connacht and Treviso at Murrayfield, and Zebre away.

That's five. Headscratch

by **George Carlin** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:50 pm

The reason that the Dragons should be optimistic is their pack. They managed to choke out an Ulster pack containing Muller, Tuohy, Diack and Henry, which is quite a feat, regardless of how badly Ulster will claim that they played. It is in direct contrast to their problems last season and means that the Dragons' tight game functioned well.

Add to that a loosie trio of, say, 6. Talei 7. Cudd 8. Faletau and Edinburgh have a proper fight on their hands.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:51 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:There are only 3 or 4 games for Edinburgh in a season where the fans and players expect to win: Zebre, Dragons, Connacht and Treviso at Murrayfield, and Zebre away.
That's five.

Maths, not fES's strong point!!

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 1:52 pm

There are some key selection issues for Edinburgh, which will go a long way to tell us what kind of selector Solomons is.

LH Prop

If Dickinson is injured does he play Niven (who had his best game in an Edinburgh shirt against Munster, but is really a TH) or new signing the big Saffer Blaauw, who has only just been here a week. I would suspect he would go with Niven and have Blaauw on the bench.

2nd row

If VDV is deemed to need time to get his ankle to properly recover, does he promote Cox up to 2nd row or bring in Atkins to make his debut? If Cox is promoted does he put two 7s in the back row in Watson and Grant or does he play the mental Georgian, Basalaia?

Stand off

Francis had a poor game, and his kick out on the full directly led to their try that killed us off straight after we managed to get back in the game. He also missed two kickable kicks. Does he stick with Francis or bring in Leonard, who had a more assured game when he came on?

I'm torn with this one - last year our biggest criticism of Bradley was that he chopped and changed the team too much, especially at 10. Therefore I think he's got to stick with Francis at least one more game.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:03 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:There are only 3 or 4 games for Edinburgh in a season where the fans and players expect to win: Zebre, Dragons, Connacht and Treviso at Murrayfield, and Zebre away.
That's five.
Maths, not fES's strong point!!

That's why I became a lawyer.....

by **George Carlin** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:There are some key selection issues for Edinburgh, which will go a long way to tell us what kind of selector Solomons is.

LH Prop

If Dickinson is injured does he play Niven (who had his best game in an Edinburgh shirt against Munster, but is really a TH) or new signing the big Saffer Blaauw, who has only just been here a week. I would suspect he would go with Niven and have Blaauw on the bench.

2nd row

If VDV is deemed to need time to get his ankle to properly recover, does he promote Cox up to 2nd row or bring in Atkins to make his debut? If Cox is promoted does he put two 7s in the back row in Watson and Grant or does he play the mental Georgian, Basalaia?

Agree that it's pointless to play guys who aren't fit.

For all of his limitations, I think that you need Cox's aggression so I'd start him at lock if PJP and the like are not preferred to him (which it seems they aren't). I don't understand Edinburgh management's seeming indifference to Big Dimitri. I just remember how strong he was the World Cup - surely his performances can't have tanked that badly since then? I hate the idea of the two 7s system. It was a novelty for Edinburgh for a while but the simple fact is that Grant and Watson together lack balance - Denton needs some help with the big carries.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:05 pm

I didn't see the game, but Munster away is always a tough proposition. Yes, it was at Musgrave Park, but it's still a tough assignment first up. It would seem fair to give the same players another shot and this time at home before making a judgement on them.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:08 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm torn with this one - last year our biggest criticism of Bradley was that he chopped and changed the team too much, especially at 10. Therefore I think he's got to stick with Francis at least one more game.

Agree. I'd have preferred Leonard to have been the chosen one this season, started the pre-season games and the Munster game, however Solomons went with Francis and he should stick with him for at least the next couple of games.

One thing I did notice against Munster is that Francis isn't afraid of getting stuck into defensive duties. He made quite a few pretty decent tackles. It's also hard to criticise the stand-off when the side isn't getting decent ball and having to defend all the time. He made a few mistakes, but I don't think he's a bad player with ball in hand.

I do think Leonard looks a great prospect though. He's calm on the ball and not afraid to play flat and take the odd hit. His goal kicking always looks good as well.

by tigertattie Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:56 pm

see, I've never really rated Leonard! I'd say he was distintly average! Am I being too harsh?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 10 Sep 2013, 3:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:see, I've never really rated Leonard! I'd say he was distintly average! Am I being too harsh?

No, I don't think so, tattie - he looked good at U20-level, not quite with the x-factor of an Alex Blair (fES's other new fave), but he hasn't really progressed from there and delivered on that potential. Now is that cos he's given of his best already or cos he's not really had the opportunity to develop yet? Tough one

by **RDW** Tue 10 Sep 2013, 3:32 pm

Agreed on Francis' defence - it is actually very good and by far the best out of the options at 10.

by Guest Tue 10 Sep 2013, 3:43 pm

Talei is likely to start according to the press. Toby is in squad and will feature in some way. He's been told to pull his socks up, the lazy get laughing

by munkian Tue 10 Sep 2013, 4:10 pm

Risca Rev wrote:Talei is likely to start according to the press. Toby is in squad and will feature in some way. He's been told to pull his socks up, the lazy get

Boom. Wish I could watch it mad

by funnyExiledScot Tue 10 Sep 2013, 5:01 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
tigertattie wrote:see, I've never really rated Leonard! I'd say he was distintly average! Am I being too harsh?
No, I don't think so, tattie - he looked good at U20-level, not quite with the x-factor of an Alex Blair (fES's other new fave), but he hasn't really progressed from there and delivered on that potential. Now is that cos he's given of his best already or cos he's not really had the opportunity to develop yet? Tough one

I'm quite surprised to hear you say that. When picked last season Leonard was actually pretty decent, and frequently came off the bench and improved the performance of the backline (as he did against Munster).

It's actually quite difficult to judge the Edinburgh fly halves because the pack are so frequently bullied out of the game. With little to no decent ball to work with we could have Dan Carter at 10 and it would make little difference.

I'd stick with him personally. He's got good distribution skills and his place kicking is strong. He's also quite comfortable taking the ball flat and bringing runners onto him, which is good to see. Young fly halves can often be conservative and take the percentage option of sitting back in order to give themselves more time on the ball and appear composed, whereas Leonard seems comfortable taking risks. It doesn't always pay off, but he always seems willing to have a go. I think he'll have a good few chances to impress this season, and is certainly worth keeping an eye on.

by dragon4life Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:29 pm

Is it on tv?

by GLove39 Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:53 pm

dragon4life wrote:Is it on tv?

Afraid not.

by **RDW** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:23 am

Well looks like I'm going to miss the game on Friday - going to pick up our first dog (a springer spaniel puppy), both of which probably have long term benefits for my health!

by **George Carlin** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:25 am

Well RDW, either Edinburgh pooes on your aspirations or the doggy does. The dog will be cheaper.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 11 Sep 2013, 9:16 am

George Carlin wrote:Well RDW, either Edinburgh pooes on your aspirations or the doggy does. The dog will be cheaper.

by **RDW** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 9:32 am

The dog will probably have better ball skills too!

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 11 Sep 2013, 9:55 am

Does it have a name yet? Dog

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:00 am

Atiga

by **RDW** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:02 am

Not yet - open to suggestions for a female springer spaniel! Any rugby related suggestions would be well received too….!

by munkian Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:16 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Not yet - open to suggestions for a female springer spaniel! Any rugby related suggestions would be well received too….!

Ashton

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:16 am

Please God don't name her Sonja.

by **RDW** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:30 am

Are there any welsh words that would be a good dog name? And before anyone tries any funny business I will check it isn’t something dodgy! Very Happy

by **George Carlin** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:37 am

Call her Lee Jones. That's a girl's name.

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