What do you want from A European Competition?

Bits & Pieces in other threads but hoped to clarify what people want form a euro comp.
Please try to keep it civil. Questions may be asked but try not to keep going round in circles.
To start
Tier 1,16 teams in 4 groups,top home 1/4 finalist, 2nd away 1/4 finalist decided by draw. Teams to be best of the best regardless where they come from.
Tier 2, 24 teams in 6 groups as Hec run now. more of a development comp with remaining teams from Rabo/Aviva/Tp14 + 2 others
Tier 3,16/20 teams in groups of 4, teams to be semi pro from other unions with finalists going into tier 2 comp next year
Money to be split evenly on participation & success in comps
over to you guys

I want enough teams from all the 6 Nation participants involved to allow each Union to have the opportunity to select their national Test side from teams involved.  And I want that competition to be at a level that provides a bridge between the gap of domestic leagues and Test play.

I want a 3 tier competition:

Tier 1 - 16 team competition containing the 6 National Champions (ok only England and France have National Champions - but easy to work out the best from the other 4). Remaining 10 spots based on European record.

Tier 2 - 16 team competition. Making the final guarantees a place in the Tier 1 competition in the following season. All countries guaranteed a spot in this competition. Taking that into account the 6 teams with the worst European record will drop into Tier 3.

Tier 3 - xx team competition. Largely a development tournament, but reaching the final guarantees promotion to tier 2.



Money:

Money split between participation and progress. Every team no matter which Tier gets the same participation payment. Progress payments would depend on how many ranking points you earn. Points are graded through the Tiers, so winning Tier 1 would earn the largest reward.



Of course when I suggested this before it was shot down in flames as being unfair.

Based on the above, the Tier 1 tournament would contain:

National Champions:
Leinster
Glasgow
Scarlets
Treviso
Leicester
Castres

Stade Francais - Tier 2 finallists

then (based on admittedly the slightly iffy ERC rankings) :

Toulon
Toulouse
Clermont
Biarritz
Munster
Ulster
Northampton
Harlequins
Cardiff Blues


Saracens and Ospreys fans rather upset by this maybe.


6 T14, 3 AP, 7 Rabo
6 French, 3 English, 3 Irish, 2 Welsh, 1 Scottish, 1 Italian

I have a question about the pools suggested.

Why have such small pools?

The bigger the pool the more chance the better team have of progressing to the play offs.

My reasoning is this, the pools in the HC was always drawn, so at times you get weaker pools than others.

So if one pool has 3 top teams, by default one of them will not qualify, and in a weaker pool there may only be one top team, which by default means a weaker team qualifies.

If you have 2 pools of 8, invariably the top teams will come through as the mix of teams are better.

Just a thought.

Bigger pools means more matches. The season is too crowded anyway, so this would then mean that the "domestic" tournaments would have to be shortened. Only way to do that woudl be to reduce the size of those competitions, or remove home and away fixtures. do the first and you are weakening the base, do the second and again you have the situation of luck of the draw.

In the end the best team will win the group. Reducing to 16 teams rlessens the "weak group" scenarios.

My first request would be that the competition was played in one block before Christmas. With the Finals in Early February just before the Six Nations. A break in the middle for the AIs.

Secondly that an equal and realistic Wage cap and overseas player cap be implemented to reduce the cost of the participation for all teams.

My suggested format would be two leagues of eight teams. A league system implemented for the the first part with the four top teams from each league qualifying for the Quarter Finals, the winners of the Quarters progress to the Semis and the winners of that to the finals.

Qualifying would be the best team from France, England, Ireland, Wales, Italy and Scotland automatically qualify as does the winner of the previous years Amlin and HEC. This would change should other nations provide teams that are promoted through the lower tier european cups towards the top. (For Example should Bucharest start in the Third tier, win that, then win the second tier a league, (T14 or AP or RP12), that is not performing so well in the top tier, would lose one automatic lower placed teams right to qualification at the expense of the new comer.

The remaining ten places would be made up of three next based placed T14 teams, three AP teams and 4 RP12 Teams.

Moneys split on teams participating getting a payment for qualification to that team from ERC, the remainder of the moneys paid on progression, a further amount for qualifying for the Quarters, the next for semi finalists, the next for finalists and a final payment to the winners.

I would like to see two further competitions below this level that encourage all nations of European Rugby to be able to progress to the top tier over time.

I like your thoughts there Maes.

Just one question.

English Premiership has 12 teams
Franch have 14 teams
Ireland and Wales have 4 teams
Scotland and Italy has 2 teams.

If it is to be a truly European competition (the six nation countries) then I see three options.

Option one.

As the smallest countries Scotland and Italy have only two teams, so every country gets to enter 2 teams only.

That means 12 teams.

OR teams qualify by way of their European ranking.

To say so many of RABO, or so many of Top14 etc is making a qualification based on performances whilst none of these competitions are equally measurable in context of quality.

or

option 3.

Dictate that every country gets a specific number (to appease England and French clubs)

And each country's union decides how their teams will qualify.

EG.

France gets 6
England gets 6
Ireland gets 3
Wales gets 3
Scotland gets 1
Italy gets 1

Something like that

Biltong wrote:Option one.

As the smallest countries Scotland and Italy have only two teams, so every country gets to enter 2 teams only.

That means 12 teams.

This would mean that with two automatic Qualifiers there would not be competition for the both Scottish and Italian teams to qualify, they would be guaranteed a place.

Biltong wrote:OR teams qualify by way of their European ranking.

To say so many of RABO, or so many of Top14 etc is making a qualification based on performances whilst none of these competitions are equally measurable in context of quality.

They are roughly measurable and this is the option closest to what i suggested as a fair deal above kind of in combination with your option 3 below.

Biltong wrote:option 3.

Dictate that every country gets a specific number (to appease England and French clubs)

And each country's union decides how their teams will qualify.

EG.

France gets 6
England gets 6
Ireland gets 3
Wales gets 3
Scotland gets 1
Italy gets 1

This is basically what would end up happening.