Should the Klits have made more of an effort to entertain ?????

First topic message reminder :

Regardless of whether they have been succesful stylistically..are smart and are Gentlemen!!! The Klits era has seen the demise of Heavyweight boxing and they have to shoulder some of the blame.......

They've been prepared to stink out arena after arena in safety first battles......Jabbing and clinching and have made little effort to make it over the pond .......and it's fair to say My American brothers have washed their hands with them.........

The Klits are happy raking it in defending the greatest prize in sports in Germany and that's fair enough.....

But Boxing thrives when the heavyweight division does..It's the blue riband division and it's success a la Tyson often filters down......

No one begrudges Wlad's safety first display against Haye!! He was dangerous..........However him and his brother have been so much better than most of their opponents it wouldn't have hurt to have made an effort to entertain... but no they coast.......

I've heard the argument that Americans aren't interested because they are Europeans and the TV companies folowed suit........But Lewis was a staple on PPV..........

The Klits haven't made a big enough effort to transcend and they haven't made a big enough effort to entertain..

and It's hurt Boxing..........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Juan coggi..The italian southpaw........remember him but not with any pleasure.....remember the Harold Brazier fight.

Randall got the shaft in Julio 2.......

Golota was a biggish name in America.

Only for his unpredictability, nothing to do with his pure ability as a boxer

That's not the point is it..

What's your point then? You're talking about the K's failure to carry over into the USA and cite Golota but fail to look past the reason for it...namely that people turned up to see what crazy **** he'd come up with next. It wasn't to see him box.

Thought he was italian...Had a long reign and a big hairy chest !!!

Certainly a record to be proud of........

My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

Your point is ridiculous, you're suggesting that Golota's meltdowns and low blows were entertaining and that if only the K's had adopted such an appraoch then they'd be more popular.
You're an idiot!

WK and Mayweather are about on par for entertainment value. Wouldn't include VK in the same bracket, he's nowhere near as safety first.

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

Your point is ridiculous, you're suggesting that Golota's meltdowns and low blows were entertaining and that if only the K's had adopted such an appraoch then they'd be more popular.
You're an idiot!

My you're stubborn aren't you.......I was responding to a point by Catchy that Europeans don't sell in America........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

Your point is ridiculous, you're suggesting that Golota's meltdowns and low blows were entertaining and that if only the K's had adopted such an appraoch then they'd be more popular.
You're an idiot!

My you're stubborn aren't you.......I was responding to a point by Catchy that Europeans don't sell in America........

By citing a guy with mental issues and quite possibly a drug problem as overwhelming contradictory proof.

Like I say...idiot!

Buchanan certainly sold well in the States. Until quite recently, Ken held the record for headlining most bills at Madison Square Garden, I think. Great shame that he wasn't as adored in Britai.

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

Your point is ridiculous, you're suggesting that Golota's meltdowns and low blows were entertaining and that if only the K's had adopted such an appraoch then they'd be more popular.
You're an idiot!

My you're stubborn aren't you.......I was responding to a point by Catchy that Europeans don't sell in America........

By citing a guy with mental issues and quite possibly a drug problem as overwhelming contradictory proof.

Like I say...idiot!

What are you going on about.......  

captain carrantuohil wrote:Buchanan certainly sold well in the States. Until quite recently, Ken held the record for headlining most bills at Madison Square Garden, I think. Great shame that he wasn't as adored in Britai.

I'm surprised seeing a couple of this guy's fights that he was so poor against Roberto........did he underestimate him or was he just not as good as he looked..

Probably deserved a return......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My point is Golota did sell in the States......regardless of reason..

Your point is ridiculous, you're suggesting that Golota's meltdowns and low blows were entertaining and that if only the K's had adopted such an appraoch then they'd be more popular.
You're an idiot!

My you're stubborn aren't you.......I was responding to a point by Catchy that Europeans don't sell in America........

By citing a guy with mental issues and quite possibly a drug problem as overwhelming contradictory proof.

Like I say...idiot!

What are you going on about.......  

I'd ask you the same thing but clearly you're as unhinged as Golota.

maybe..

Golota was around boxing when the heavyweight division was still big news in the U.S. If the Klitschkos were around at the same time I dont think they would have been any different. America lost interest in the division mainly because they dont have any good heavyweights anymore and arent interested in seeing other countries dominate the division. At the same time popularity has soared in Europe because they enjoy supporting the success of their own.

catchweight wrote: America lost interest in the division mainly because they dont have any good heavyweights anymore and arent interested in seeing other countries dominate the division.

We didn't mind seeing guys like Sanchez dominating feather....Martinez at middle ......Duran at light etc though.......

Have to take the Klits style and personalities into the equation.........If they were attractive ..people would be interested..

You do Americans an injustice..........

Think another factor around the brothers which frequently gets overlooked is whether we like to admit it or not we tend to be drawn to controversy in our heavyweight champions. Tyson still attracted crowds and column inches long after his skills warranted such attention. Dempsey not only had his elemental ferocity in the ring but had the draft dodging controversy around him, in a similar vein the likes of Sullivan and Ali had gregarious, larger than life personas outside the ring. Accepted all of these could fight but so could Holmes and he never attracted anywhere near the attention these guys did during his reign.

Whilst the brothers intelligence, articulacy and seemingly humble natures are obviously largely admirable traits they unfortunately are what is expected from our heavyweight champions. As Tunney found many a year ago who wants to hear the heavyweight champions thoughts about the works of Dickens?

Its a different scenario. Hispanics always always have a much greater level of interest in the U.S due to proximity and a large domestic ethnic population especially around the border states like Texas and California where Sanchez fought most of the time. Essetially an extention of Mexico for all intents and purposes. Duran had the same situation as Lewis. Major U.S rivals at a time when boxing was high in interest. Martinez isnt really a huge draw in the U.S on his own.

Nationality is by far the biggest factor. Two European fighters in a limited division with no noteable U.S rivals aside from the odd one that gets trounced is just not going to generate popularity and interest. Its a lost cause which the Klitschkos figured out once Lewis retired and they were able to bring the titles back to Europe.

catchweight wrote:Its a different scenario. Hispanics always always have a much greater level of interest in the U.S due to proximity and a large domestic ethnic population especially around the border states like Texas and California where Sanchez fought most of the time. Essetially an extention of Mexico for all intents and purposes. Duran had the same situation as Lewis. Major U.S rivals at a time when boxing was high in interest. Martinez isnt really a huge draw in the U.S on his own.

Nationality is by far the biggest factor. Two European fighters in a limited division with no noteable U.S rivals aside from the odd one that gets trounced is just not going to generate popularity and interest. Its a lost cause which the Klitschkos figured out once Lewis retired and they were able to bring the titles back to Europe.

Had Wlad ever actually trounced anyone in America he may had stood a better chance however his unification fight with Ibragimov is one of the dullest fights I've had the misfortune to endure and it was THAT fight that not only hammered the final nail in the coffin that was the K's US career, it carried it shoulder high to the graveside and buried it six feet under.

DAVE667 wrote:

catchweight wrote:Its a different scenario. Hispanics always always have a much greater level of interest in the U.S due to proximity and a large domestic ethnic population especially around the border states like Texas and California where Sanchez fought most of the time. Essetially an extention of Mexico for all intents and purposes. Duran had the same situation as Lewis. Major U.S rivals at a time when boxing was high in interest. Martinez isnt really a huge draw in the U.S on his own.

Nationality is by far the biggest factor. Two European fighters in a limited division with no noteable U.S rivals aside from the odd one that gets trounced is just not going to generate popularity and interest. Its a lost cause which the Klitschkos figured out once Lewis retired and they were able to bring the titles back to Europe.

Had Wlad ever actually trounced anyone in America he may had stood a better chance however his unification fight with Ibragimov is one of the dullest fights I've had the misfortune to endure and it was THAT fight that not only hammered the final nail in the coffin that was the K's US career, it carried it shoulder high to the graveside and buried it six feet under.

Both Klitschkos have fought in America on plenty of occasions and have made short work of substandard American heavyweights. The interest isnt there. If Klitschko had knocked out Ibragimov in a few rounds, as he did Ray Mercer or Ray Austin it wouldnt have any difference. American interest would be limited at best and not worth sacrificing the huge support and audience they receive in Europe.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My view is Boxing is a form of entertainment..........I imagine Whittaker and Nunn wouldn't get away with their antics back in the 40s........

But that is my opinion and I'm open to ones that disagree.......

All welcome....

As someone else said, entertainment is in the eye of the beholder, and as your thread regarding Hoppo infers, legacies aren't secured by entertainment- else you would surely rank Haglar higher than Hoppo?
Personally I don't see sport as entertainment, though many of us find it entertaining (how else can you explain people watching golf on the TV?) so I don't think WK should have tried to entertain- I would imagine that as an old man he would much rather tell his grandchildren about the fact he was one of the longest reigning, successful , champions than having to say, well yes I got KO'd ,but was involved in some good brawls. He job is to win boxing matches, nothing more, and if we don't like how he does so, we don't have to watch.

Sport is entertainment........if it wasn't no one would go.........TV wouldn't cover it and there'd be no money...

catchweight wrote:Its a different scenario. Hispanics always always have a much greater level of interest in the U.S due to proximity and a large domestic ethnic population especially around the border states like Texas and California where Sanchez fought most of the time. Essetially an extention of Mexico for all intents and purposes. Duran had the same situation as Lewis. Major U.S rivals at a time when boxing was high in interest. Martinez isnt really a huge draw in the U.S on his own.

Nationality is by far the biggest factor. Two European fighters in a limited division with no noteable U.S rivals aside from the odd one that gets trounced is just not going to generate popularity and interest. Its a lost cause which the Klitschkos figured out once Lewis retired and they were able to bring the titles back to Europe.

Duran had plenty of fans that were non hispanic.........Goloto sold in the States end of.........

Don't blame Americans for not being endeared by plodders that stink with no personality.........

If the Klits were attractive they would sell.........Lewis did eventually..........Then again he had some exciting fights..

Sport is/can be entertaining, it is no entertainment. WWE is entertainment, hence why it changed its name as such, as it is scripted and played out purely to entertain its audience. Sport is entertaining, but at its heart is the essence of competition.

Sport is entertainment Truss but it all goes back to the point of everything is in the eye of the beholder. Dave listens to records I would switch off within about 30 seconds, likewise I am sure I watch films that would bore others to tears. The key here is the brothers have a style that 50,000 people are willing to shell out for on a regular basis. Whilst Wlad’s style is one I admire rather than enjoy unless he is fighting for the heavyweight title in front of two men and his dog for me there is not a problem.

Sport is entertainment............People go to enjoy it.........and If they didn't they wouldn't watch.......

And 50,000 people time in time out enjoy going to watch the K's fight.

Therefore by your definition they've done their job.

Rowley wrote:Sport is entertainment Truss but it all goes back to the point of everything is in the eye of the beholder. Dave listens to records I would switch off within about 30 seconds, likewise I am sure I watch films that would bore others to tears. The key here is the brothers have a style that 50,000 people are willing to shell out for on a regular basis. Whilst Wlad’s style is one I admire rather than enjoy unless he is fighting for the heavyweight title in front of two men and his dog for me there is not a problem.

Very true but to say the reason Americans don't take to the Klits is just down to them being Eastern european ..........Is just BS..

agree, but it wasn't primarily designed as being entertainment- sport started as being for the enjoyment of the participants- the entertainment of spectators is a by product. Hence my point about golf- it's not really entertaining unless you understand the nuances of the game and the skills of the practitioner- no-one would ever accuse a golfer of not being entertaining enough, nor should they a boxer- if you don't like 'purist' boxing don't watch, personally i'd rather watch FMJ than Gatti, but most would say Gatti is the more entertaining.

I don't think its absurd to say it (neither K being American) played a part when considering mass market appeal.

How Brits (or even Americans for that matters) do you think watched a Cuban fight a Filipino recently for Super Bantom supremacy?  Mass interest comes from people have something invested in those competing, particularly if that something is national pride.

I'm not suggesting it didn't play a part........

Geale vs Barker has just been held in America..................

America uses the "Klitschkos are boring" reason because its easier and less xenaphobic sounding than they "arent American and our own heavyweights are rubbish". If the Klitschkos were American, boring as they are, there would be no question of them not being on American TV. The Americans cant even get interested in their own 2nd rate heavyweights now, what chance do the Klitschkos have?

Lewis was never popular in the U.S. But he retained an interest because he was a big player in a division where there was significant American interest and profiles.

It works both ways. When the Klitschkos eventually retire and if America manages to produce a heavyweight capable of holding the title for any length of time then then you can be sure 10 million Germans will not be tuning in on a regular basis. Neither will 10 million Americans in all probability.

I'm not going to debate anybody who's going to tell me..

A) How I think.

B) Use my thread as a platform for trashing America...........

Okay..

I've always preferred offensive fighters generally from welter up. An offensive fighter that can also defend as he moves forward to close the space is what impresses me most. I think everybody likes heavy-handed fighters.


Some of the gifs of Mayweather being offensive against Canelo that are going around are brilliant. I've seen some that are zoomed in on and the tricks Floyd is pulling to fool Canelo are amazing. You can't see all of this stuff when watching the fight in real time.

The Klits have made a huge effort to entertain. but not to entertain us. They know Germany is their hunting ground and that they have been onto a winner there for a long time. If you ever go and see a fight in Germany you will find their fans on the whole want different things to us. Tyson would not have made too much money in Germany with his early KOs. In Germany they want to see most of a fight and go home disappointed with an early stoppage. Most German fans want to see the headline fighter in the ring for a minimum of 8 rounds. If hes not they will claim poor matchmaking and vote with their feet by not returning next time. watch the end of the Solis Vitali fight...Vitali is very worried by the fact it ended in round 1  and is nervously talking garbage to try and save face.  surprise surprise his next fight is in Poland and waits a full year before fighting in Germany again. Ive seen Wlad carry many opponents to try and get some rounds in the bank and leave his crowd going home happy

Think Windy lived in Germany..Maybe he could have given us an insight into the German psyche......

You seem to know quite a bit lance.

If you have the world heavyweight champion fighting on Nuts TV, then we have a problem.

But the Germans love him. They liked Sven Ottke also. Heck they would support a German praying Mantis against a fly and pay for the pleasure of watching it.

Market it well enough, put a prestigous enough title on the line, and most nationalities will support a local praying mantis... Thats how the Olynpics keep getting ratings

kingraf wrote:Market it well enough, put a prestigous enough title on the line, and most nationalities will support a local praying mantis... Thats how the Olynpics keep getting ratings