Advise.

After not hitting a ball for about a month, i went to the range Saturday morning. Hitting my usual mix of decent/good and horrible shots, some old boy started talking to me about my bad shot...which goes left in many different ways. He started telling me to flare out my front foot and then started going on about trying to hit left..this confused the hell out of me. Bet he claimed that by trying to hit left it should stop me throwing my hands out, which causes an over the top swing.

Well I played yesterday, and was rubbish, think my brain was scrambled, I am pretty rubbish anyway, but i was now slicing big time, which i do not usually do. Lost all confidence in my game, and got blisters after wearing new shoes, and lost balls in the leaves.

Anyway, the advise given, does it make any sense, and should i flare my front foot??

All I will says is this: Free advice is usually worth what you've paid.

(No matter how well intentioned!)

Never listen to anyone at a range, especially a stranger who pops up to give advice in the Harry Enfield mould (you don't want to do it like that) . He doesn't know you, doesn't know your game, doesn't know what you are trying to do.

flare out my front foot

Aha ... so then, could this be the secret to burning up the course?

Reminds me of a friend who was looking at houses and went round the house of Graeme Bell, the skier. Obviously there were a lot of skiing pictures so my friend pipes up, "I see you ski a bit, need any tips?" Apparently his wife stood there open mouthed while Graeme Bell just politely said that he was OK.

1. Ben - are you left handed?
2. If you are right handed, was he maybe suggesting you aim right? (trying to hit to the right of the target would be a much more common drill to reduce an over the top swing) maybe he got confused.

I love the irony of asking for advice on a forum (of strangers) about advice from a stranger

twoeightnine wrote:Reminds me of a friend who was looking at houses and went round the house of Graeme Bell, the skier.  Obviously there were a lot of skiing pictures so my friend pipes up, "I see you ski a bit, need any tips?"  Apparently his wife stood there open mouthed while Graeme Bell just politely said that he was OK.

Maybe Graeme should have listened, perhaps that's why he never won anything!

raycastleunited wrote:

twoeightnine wrote:Reminds me of a friend who was looking at houses and went round the house of Graeme Bell, the skier.  Obviously there were a lot of skiing pictures so my friend pipes up, "I see you ski a bit, need any tips?"  Apparently his wife stood there open mouthed while Graeme Bell just politely said that he was OK.

Maybe Graeme should have listened, perhaps that's why he never won anything!

Apparently his advice would have been to flare out his foot!

beninho wrote:After not hitting a ball for about a month, i went to the range Saturday morning. Hitting my usual mix of decent/good and horrible shots, some old boy started talking to me about my bad shot...which goes left in many different ways. He started telling me to flare out my front foot and then started going on about trying to hit left..this confused the hell out of me. Bet he claimed that by trying to hit left it should stop me throwing my hands out, which causes an over the top swing.

Well I played yesterday, and was rubbish, think my brain was scrambled, I am pretty rubbish anyway, but i was now slicing big time, which i do not usually do. Lost all confidence in my game, and got blisters after wearing new shoes, and lost balls in the leaves.

Anyway, the advise given, does it make any sense, and should i flare my front foot??

Ben, the first thing you need to ask yourself is: the ball is going left, but how is it getting there?

So, does it (I'm assuming you're right-handed):

1) Go straight left?
2) Start left and have (any) cut on it?
3) Start straight and draw/hook left?
4) Start right, but hook left bigtime?
5) Start left and draw/hook even further left?

As for the flaring and trying to hit left, ballocks. If he thinks/sees you have an over-the-top cast, I don't see how what he suggests can make on iota of (+ve) difference. A bit more info re. how the ball is travelling would help a lot.

I am right handed. And the gut definitely talked about hitting left, in fact he held a club in front of me to get the feeling of moving my hands to the left and not into the club. Ive had lessons in the past a few years ago, and none of this was mentioned, which is why it seemed strange. I have no issues getting advise from anyone if i think it could help.

Regarding my shots, if i hit it well, it will draw a bit though I have never seemed to get much height, this covers all clubs up to the driver, which i very rarely hit well!

Bad shots go left in a manner of ways, they can start staright and carve left, or just go straight off to the left. Sometimes it can start left then cut back in. Though at times with a wood, it will go low and left and not very far. The old guy told me it goes wrong when i turn my wrists over, but i am sure i was told to do that when i had lessons.

Im very confused!

Ignore the old guy!

One other thing I forgot to ask: assuming you hit divots with irons, where do they point (with respect to your target line) if you stand behind them?

Oh and another thing: would you say you generally hit the ball low with pretty much all your clubs?

I dont really always notice my divots, though on bad which are either big chunks of the ground which is unreadable, or pointing to the left. Good shots i dont really notice them.

I do seem to hit the ball lower then most guys i play with, though not sure if i lay in to the ball as much as others, as when i do it really seems to go anywhere.

I thought the flared left foot thing was to help with hip rotation on the way through the shot. I guess there is not so much resistance in the left knee, and therefore hip, rotation if your foot and ankle are already pointing in the "right" direction. I think it was a hogan thing originally, or at least he was a strong proponent of it.

As noted by navy, ignore any advise handed out be random people on the range.

I've heard of turning your left foot out with the driver but not with anything else. Can't imagine why that would help you with starting your shots straighter.
Have you tried the drill when you put a marker down 2 or 3 feet in front of you outside the target line and try to feel like your really throwing your arms out there on the follow through. I was shown it in a lesson and use it sometimes if they begin to start or turn a little too left.

I always look at my divot if i feel i've not stuck it crisply. Gives me confidence in the next shot as it can reinforce what you thought was or wasn't right. Divots are invaluable!

Ok Ben. Let me see if I got this straight.

Your bad miss is leftish. How it goes left appears a bit inconsistent but either hooks or goes straight left. Occasional shots start left with a bit of cut back towards centre. Often hit woods (what about other straight-faced clubs? Long irons?) low, left and shortish. Divots (they are definitely invaluable!) appear to be pointing left of target (when readable). Generally, you think you hit the ball lower than most of the guys you play with.

Fair assessment?

OK, it sounds to me (a video would be a big help!) as if you're striking the ball with a slightly out-to-in swing path and with a clubface that's square-to-path or slightly closed-to-path. It's presumably a close run thing as to the swing path as not all your shots go left it seems. It also sounds as if your angle of attack on the ball is quite steep which, with a square/closed clubface, may well account for the low trajectory, at least early in the ball flight.

Check your grip - nice and neutral, thumb/forefinger "Vs" on both hands pointing round about right shoulder at address.

Check your clubface at address - square or (very) slightly open is usually better than closed.

Check your alignment at address - set up and then put your club shaft on the ground such that it joins the toes of both feet (make sense?) and then stand behind the line to see where you're pointing. As expected?

IF you're casting OTT and getting steep on the downswing, try initiating your backswing with more of a conscious shoulder turn and make sure you aren't 'picking' the club up - stick a coin on the ground ~12" behind the ball on a slightly inside backswing path while on the practice ground and try to brush it with the club on the way back. Also, never, ever try to start your downswing with your hands/arms/shoulders as this often leads to an OTT cast and an out-to-in path. Try to make sure you initiate the downswing from the lower half of the body, ideally with a bit of a weight shift from the hips/upper legs (I often visualise kicking my right knee/thigh slightly towards the target as the initiating trigger for my downswing). If you get this bit right, everything (well, almost) falls into the slot almost as if it's a chain reaction. It's almost impossible to cast OTT by doing this.


At the end of the day, I'm guessing(!) but everything you say fits with occasionally getting OTT (thereby hitting out-to-in), steep and striking with a square/closed clubface - is this something (the lefts, I mean) that really only happens with woods and other 'long' clubs i.e. clubs people tend to hit flat out? Hitting with the arms/shoulders etc is much more likely if you're trying to hit the ball hard i.e. with a driver/wood/long iron etc.
I always check my setup is as I expect it (grip, alignment, ball position etc) as more often than not, it's really trivial things that get out of whack. Once you're sure you're pointing the right way, gripping it more or less right etc, you know it has to be something about the swing itself.

Anyway, it's not about flaring your left foot (as Mac says, often suggested to help clearing hip) and nothing suggests trying to hit left is going to help you stop hitting it left!

Right everyone, I'll put my tin hat on and you can flame away!

All seems to make sense to me, I think i may have a closed club face, i was told that in my lessons but he said it wasnt closed enough to be an issue, it seems that when it all works together it isnt an issue but when things are off it is an issue. The real low left ones are usually only with the driver/3 wood, and when i try and go after it.

But thanks for everything, i will not aim left, flare my foot and hold the clubface open ( liek i am good enough to do that anyway)

Just been to the driving range. Tried to pick up on things mentioned above. Still a few left but not many that bad left. As at American golf and in the market for some irons, first set in almost 10 years! I hit a 6 iron Taylor made rocket something and a cobra amp both nicer then my clubs. Anyway American golf guy down there watched me swing, he said club a bit shut and getting steep on downswing. He told me to concentrate on a full turn and turning my back on the target. Will take a bit of getting used to I suppose.

Now do I go Taylor made or Cobra??

I've heard of the flared front foot thing...indeed I do it a bit myself. Think it would only be a benefit to the swing though if there is an actual issue with lack of flexibility to turn through the ball. To me it's more a physical benefit than an actual swing enhancing improvement I.e. it puts less torsional strain on the left knee (for right handers)

JAS wrote:I've heard of the flared front foot thing...indeed I do it a bit myself. Think it would only be a benefit to the swing though if there is an actual issue with lack of flexibility to turn through the ball. To me it's more a physical benefit than an actual swing enhancing improvement I.e. it puts less torsional strain on the left knee (for right handers)

That's why I do it, just a little, as well.

I just do it, don't think I could set up with parallell feet, I'd fall over (more).

ben - if you are going to buy bats, try a few other makes too. Very personal choice, for example I don't happen to like most of the TM or Cobra offerings despite them being decent brands.

The new Titleist 714 AP1 (game improvement) or AP2 (forged cavity) are supposed to be very good (and will also make the current 712 ones cheaper shortly which are also supposed to be good). Some Adams ones look nice (and are now TM owned as well).

navyblueshorts wrote:

JAS wrote:I've heard of the flared front foot thing...indeed I do it a bit myself. Think it would only be a benefit to the swing though if there is an actual issue with lack of flexibility to turn through the ball. To me it's more a physical benefit than an actual swing enhancing improvement I.e. it puts less torsional strain on the left knee (for right handers)

That's why I do it, just a little, as well.

Ben Hogan mentions it in his 5 lessons book, I'm pretty sure that's the reason he gives, easier to follow through if your front foot is turned toward the target a little.

incontinentia wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

JAS wrote:I've heard of the flared front foot thing...indeed I do it a bit myself. Think it would only be a benefit to the swing though if there is an actual issue with lack of flexibility to turn through the ball. To me it's more a physical benefit than an actual swing enhancing improvement I.e. it puts less torsional strain on the left knee (for right handers)

That's why I do it, just a little, as well.

Ben Hogan mentions it in his 5 lessons book, I'm pretty sure that's the reason he gives, easier to follow through if your front foot is turned toward the target a little.

Yep - all of the above is why I flare my left foot mainly on the driver because more hip rotation is required. Being over 60 and overweight (not as bad as I used to be) rotation is a particular problem and the flared left foot allows easier movement through the ball and on to follow through. However, when I was younger, I did not need to flare the foot out.

You can also flare the right foot to allow for a longer backswing if required - I've tried that, as my backswing rarely gets above 11 o clock, but it was uncomfortable and produced a pronounced 'sway'.