Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Swansea 3-2 Stoke

What has happened to Stoke's defence

[socal1976]

If Arteta makes Arsenal's squad then Carrick does as hes better. Considering Wilshere has had about two good games this year as well.

Id have De Gea as best keeper in the league. Jones has potential, as does Smalling. Welbeck would make most teams, very good player. Cracking for a squad option for a top side. Hernandez is a better striker than most teams in the league have.

Problem is that Carrick isnt going to run riot in midfield, its not his game and if he started trying it then it would throw off all his other skills. Fellaini isnt settling, Cleverley has stalled.

United played ok against Spurs, thats not a bad point, so I would say things are still looking rosier. Two pretty standout goals.

I agree with Big Sam today on AVB. Can see why he'd take people on in the press, but sadly you cant do it, they just slate you more. Wield too much power, too many people see something written in a paper and let it become true.

Lamela is a good player and may very well come good. I dont think its a mistake going for him, its just not working out yet. Same with Soldado. He cant be slated as being bad at transfers if everyone looked at Spurs' business at the start of the year and thought it was very good. Eriksen is good, Paulinho is good, Capoue has been unfortunate, I think Chiriches has looked good. I think if you looked at every player AVB has brought in, most of them would be considered good buys.

Carrick has not been as good as Flamini and Wilshere is a great deal better than Carrick. I think a big part of improvement this year defensively is down to Scez playing better and the addition of Flamini. Fellaini has looked very ordinary in a united shirt. Wilshere has had more than a couple of good games in a row, he has been injured and his first few games returning from injury he just looked off. He actually does something on the pitch, he unsettles a defense, takes people on and is now showing he can score.

The problem is not with the individual buys and here I disagree the buys mostly have not been good. Soldado has been a total bust, he cost more than Negredo did. The problem is that the players he has bought are squad players, he needed quality not quantity. Instead of buying a team of squad players he was better off spending it on 2 or 3 top players instead of 7 squad players. Who many of them frankly are not as good as some of the players they are supposed to replace, in short a complete waste of money. AVB is an awful coach, he stank up at Chelsea as well with all the money in the world to spend. Eriksen and Paulihno cost about 1/3 of the bale money the rest of the money he crapped away on flops and too many players of the same type. Is Capoue a big upgrade over Sandro or Dembele? Is Lamela that much better than Lennon? Is Soldado that much better than Defoe?

[mystiroakey]

Wilshire/ramsey/ozil when fit would start for any prem team..

That is the difference between Arsenal and the rest.

[mystiroakey]

We could say the same about uniteds front two(rooney and RVP)

but then Liverpool fans may argue against that.

I cant see to many fans from any club arguing against the arsernal midfield

[socal1976]

I do think Arsenal fans rate Flamini too highly, he's too one dimensional for my liking. There's a reason why there's no Makelele types around, they just don't offer a lot. I'd take a fit Wilshere over Carrick but not Arteta or Flamini.

Flamini did leave Arsenal and went to AC Milan so he hardly went to a backwater club and my understanding was that they wanted to resign him as a squad player but he turned them down to go out on his own. Arteta is more versatile than Carrick, he might not have the same long range passing but he used to play up right behind the striker at Everton and would score a lot of goals coming out of mid-field. Where Carrick is basically just a defensive mid-fielder, Arteta can play both the defensive and attacking midfield position. Although he does not have the quality to play CAM for Arsenal he could on a lot of teams in the league and did at Everton for quite some time. I don't know, United fans and the media love Carrick but for the life of me I don't know why he is so highly rated. He is a good player but I don't think he starts for any other elite team in Europe.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Any midfield with Toure isn't the best in the league, once City sort out their away form they'll be charging Arsenal down at some rate.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wilshire/ramsey/ozil when fit would start for any prem team..

That is the difference between Arsenal and the rest.

Pfft Jonny Howson and Leroy Far laugh in the face of that statement

[mystiroakey]

Yes Olly how could i forget them

[socal1976]

Any midfield with Toure isn't the best in the league, once City sort out their away form they'll be charging Arsenal down at some rate.

Agree I have always rated Ya Ya quite highly and City has the most talent to win the league but it remains to be seen if they will. I still would take Arsenal's midfield over City's. City has better strikers that is for sure. Ramsey has been Ya Ya times 2 so far this season and is a better passer than Ya ya. City have as good a chance as anyone but one team hardly ever loses on the road and the other team is sorting out their away form so advantage there goes to Arsenal who since the end of last year have been absolutely mind boggling on the road including wins in Dortmund and Munich since the end of last season.

[Hammersmith harrier]

They'll fall apart as they always do, it's far too predictable with Arsenal.

[socal1976]

They'll fall apart as they always do, it's far too predictable with Arsenal.

Like they always do, hasn't Arsenal won more league titles than any other club other than ManU and Liverpool? I suggest if it is that predictable you place a wager against them winning the league and profit by it. The team had no money and still did well to compete now they got the cash and a good core of young players to add to. They might not win it this year but I see trophies either this year or next coming out of this squad. They look stacked for some time to come.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Like they always do, hasn't Arsenal won more league titles than any other club other than ManU and Liverpool? I suggest if it is that predictable you place a wager against them winning the league and profit by it. The team had no money and still did well to compete now they got the cash and a good core of young players to add to. They might not win it this year but I see trophies either this year or next coming out of this squad. They look stacked for some time to come.

Well said, Arsenal look the business this year and anyone who is comparing this team to the 09/10 team or the 11/12 team doesn't know anything about football.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Time to stop living in the past, it's been nigh on ten years since Arsenal won anything. The team of now isn't the team that won those titles.

[socal1976]

Time to stop living in the past, it's been nigh on ten years since Arsenal won anything. The team of now isn't the team that won those titles.

So because they have not won anything in 8 and half years by the way, that means they will never win anything? Is that your logic or excuse for it. This is also the team that managed to get to the knockout phase in the Champion's league last year and get as high as 4th with a much weaker and less mature squad, it is not like they were mid-table in relegation battles for any of the last 8 years.

[Champagne_Socialist]

[

So because they have not won anything in 8 and half years by the way, that means they will never win anything? Is that your logic or excuse for it. This is also the team that managed to get to the knockout phase in the Champion's league last year and get as high as 4th with a much weaker and less mature squad, it is not like they were mid-table in relegation battles for any of the last 8 years. [/quote]
Exactly. Arsenal have had some very weak squads in the last 5 years yet somehow they always manage to finish top 4 and even got to the champions league semis a few years ago.

The arsenal team this year has been reinforced with some top quality players, along with youth players really performing well (ramsey, wilshere, schzeny, gibbs, walcott).

[socal1976]

Like they always do, hasn't Arsenal won more league titles than any other club other than ManU and Liverpool? I suggest if it is that predictable you place a wager against them winning the league and profit by it. The team had no money and still did well to compete now they got the cash and a good core of young players to add to. They might not win it this year but I see trophies either this year or next coming out of this squad. They look stacked for some time to come.

Well said, Arsenal look the business this year and anyone who is comparing this team to the 09/10 team or the 11/12 team doesn't know anything about football.

I agree, this team finished last year stronger than any other team and has won the most points in the last 52 weeks. This squad didn't fall apart at the end of last year actually quite the opposite they played their best football in the last 2 or 3 months of the season. What I like is that we have a core of talent that has been there for awhile and all of the guys are peaking at the same time and are of similar ages. Players like Gibbs, Ox, Theo, Ramsay, and Wilshere are all of similar ages and are all much improved over where they have been. And this year they have a good mix of veterans to provide leadership.

[socal1976]

[

So because they have not won anything in 8 and half years by the way, that means they will never win anything? Is that your logic or excuse for it. This is also the team that managed to get to the knockout phase in the Champion's league last year and get as high as 4th with a much weaker and less mature squad, it is not like they were mid-table in relegation battles for any of the last 8 years.

Exactly. Arsenal have had some very weak squads in the last 5 years yet somehow they always manage to finish top 4 and even got to the champions league semis a few years ago.

The arsenal team this year has been reinforced with some top quality players, along with youth players really performing well (ramsey, wilshere, schzeny, gibbs, walcott).

[/quote]

Last year Arsenal's squad was the weakest it has been since I started watching them and they still did pretty well in the champion's league and got the 4th place spot. The young players grew up in the second half of last season and both their transfer buys have worked out beyond expectations so if they finished 4th last year logic dictates that hey should do better with a more mature side that added Ozil and Flamini.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Carrick is a better footballer than Flamini. And Arteta cannot play holding midfield that well, let alone attacking midfield anymore. I think Carrick would quite happily do both their jobs for United but he doesnt have the support those two do.

Its a long season and we're not even halfway through yet. They havent all completely forgotten the poorer performances in their locker just cos its going well now. Wilshere getting a couple goals doesnt mean hes looked anywhere near that good this year either. Who knows, Rambo might dry up and then there could be some questions asked. One of the centre backs could get injured and the unit could fall apart.

I have no problem with saying Arsenal have been the best team in the league this year, but its ridiculous that any time anyone doubts them the Arsenal fans on here jump up like its an offensive accusation. Most of us don't support a club that could win the league, we're reasonably objective.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Just because AVB's buys havent clicked yet doesnt make them awful signings. People wet their pants over Lamela and Soldado being signed, they are cracking players, but it hasnt set fire yet so short-termism comes to life.

I think since the summer of 2012 saw these players signed: Mousa Dembele (Fulham, £15m), Emmanuel Adebayor (Manchester City, £5m), Jan Vertonghen (Ajax, £10m), Gylfi Sigurdsson (Hoffenheim, £8m), Hugo Lloris (Lyon, £13m), Clint Dempsey (Fulham, £6m).

Even Adebayor doesnt come across as a bad decision for me, what with the wages being subsidised by City and the job he did for them being ok, not great nor awful. Every one of those signings is good for otherwise, even Dempsey did a job in his year whilst Vertonghen and Lloris are arguably two of the best players Spurs have and two of the best in their positions in the league. Dembele should have been snapped up by Man United, hes a quality player too.

January 2013: Zeki Fryers (Standard Liege, undisclosed). Lewis Holtby (Schalke, £1.5m)

A young player and a tiny fee for a player underused by Spurs, maybe a little too jack of all trades master of none. Again, higher calibre work than Redknapp.

This summer: Paulinho (Corinthians, £17m), Nacer Chadli (FC Twente, £6m), Roberto Soldado (Valencia, £26m), Etienne Capoue (Toulouse £8.6m), Vlad Chiriches (Steaua Bucharest £8.5m), Erik Lamela (Roma, £30m), Christian Eriksen (Ajax, £11.5m).

Two of those were slightly squad signings with potential to be first teamers in Chadli and Capoue.

Paulinho has shown to be a very classy player. Chiriches is looking an astute buy. Eriksen is arguably an absolute steal on pure talent alone.

Really, questions remain over Soldado and Lamela. Both will take time to adapt, undoubtedly, but it is quite revisionist for people to lament these signings. I can just have a quick look over a thread on this forum for "players to watch" and two or three people expect 20 goals from Soldado. Easy to laugh at them now, but it wasnt so baffling a thing to say then as everyone has seen before how good a striker he is.

Its December, and two of his signings havent clicked like it was expected. But they are 3 points outside the top four with a team that is adapting to each other and English football. If anything, sometimes things like Lamela are a little tough luck. Write those signings off at your peril, they wouldnt be the first to slowly get into it then spring to life.

I'd love them to tumble, but I'm not a fool, there's nothing to indicate they can't be there or thereabouts on 4th place.

[LastDamnation]

arteta vs carrick:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pkR9my4bpws/UcrPQ1TpAuI/AAAAAAAAHRM/QfKYYe0GLBM/w540-h485-no/Screen+Shot+2013-06-26+at+2.23.22+PM.png

[socal1976]

Carrick is a better footballer than Flamini. And Arteta cannot play holding midfield that well, let alone attacking midfield anymore. I think Carrick would quite happily do both their jobs for United but he doesnt have the support those two do.

Its a long season and we're not even halfway through yet. They havent all completely forgotten the poorer performances in their locker just cos its going well now. Wilshere getting a couple goals doesnt mean hes looked anywhere near that good this year either. Who knows, Rambo might dry up and then  there could be some questions asked. One of the centre backs could get injured and the unit could fall apart.

I have no problem with saying Arsenal have been the best team in the league this year, but its ridiculous that any time anyone doubts them the Arsenal fans on here jump up like its an offensive accusation. Most of us don't support a club that could win the league, we're reasonably objective.

You can have your doubts about whoever, nobody is jumping on you like you did anything offensive just discussing football. I have never stated Arsenal are for sure going to win league and I don't have a problem with anyone who has a different opinion. But if you say something I disagree with I am more than happy to point out the weakness of an Arsenal detractors argument.

In regards to Carrick I have watched the guy play and I just don't know what it is about him that makes him so highly rated. Yes he delivers a good long ball, and is rarely out of position and sure footed in the challenge. After that I can't think of much about him that makes him so highly praised other than the shirt that he wears on gameday. Wilshere was better than him in my opinion at 18. Jack can attack and he does make a fair number of tackles and track back as well. Arsenal's starting midfield if Carrick was on our team would be as follows, the best midfield we field.

Ozil Ramsey Cazorla
Wilshere and then Flamini/Carrick/Arteta

In short Carrick would fight it out for one spot with three players he could play, but he wouldn't be guaranteed of a spot that is for sure.

[socal1976]

arteta vs carrick:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pkR9my4bpws/UcrPQ1TpAuI/AAAAAAAAHRM/QfKYYe0GLBM/w540-h485-no/Screen+Shot+2013-06-26+at+2.23.22+PM.png

Yes basically he is behind Arteta in every category, touches, passes, pass completion etc. That is why I have always struggled to figure out what is so special about the guy, maybe a United fan can enlighten me on the subject. Good post

[Ent]

Compared to the rest of our midfielders he is a genius.

[compelling and rich]

on what basis are people rating wilshere above carrick? potential?

because one players been the key cog in a team thats been there or there about the title every year and played a major part in that team being so successful. while the others been barely playing much at all and been sporadic in a team that's been barely making top four

cant access the stats put up, but dont give much attention to them anyway. carrick has played in a two man midfield with a weak partner for a while, while arteta has been playing in a 3 man midfield in a team that plays more possession football with better players

[Mad for Chelsea]

I actually think Carrick is a bit like Lampard was in his prime, in that it's only fans of the club who watch him week-in week-out and, perhaps more importantly, see how his side struggles without him, who fully appreciate the value he brings to the team. Fans of other clubs watch the odd game of his (sometimes in an average England side), don't see him do anything special, and state that he's overrated.

Fact is, you don't become a key component of a multiple championship-winning side without being a seriously good player.

Back on to the PL discussion, Arsenal have surprised me, I was expecting them to begin to struggle around now, but they've gone from strength to strength in recent weeks, so I'm happy (sort of) to admit I may have been wrong about them. Certainly I see them challenging all the way for the title now. Squad depth still could be an issue if they pick up a few injuries of course (particularly say to Giroud, or the centre-halves, given the lack of back-up), but right now they're looking good. Man City need to sort out their away form, but you expect them to be in the mix. Chelsea haven't really clicked yet for me, Jose still working out what our best team/system is, but they're right up there, and I expect them to come on strongly in the second half of the season.

[TopHat24/7]

The City and Chelsea games are the acid test of Arsenal though, who've had it pretty easy fixture-wise so far. My personal opinion is Liverpool's league position is a fallacy (being the only top club with a more generous fixture list that Arsenal) therefore I was not surprised Arsenal turned them over, but the United match was more telling. Playing a 'top' side who 'can' play football and push you back and they lost.

Soton have been fantastic this season and the score line in that match flattered Arsenal also (think I read some stat like Soton were the first EPL club to dominate possession at Emirates since it was built). [NB: winning those games is what makes Champions]

[J.Benson II]

I think Carrick is being under-rated here. He may not be spectacular, but he is a very functional player who keeps the midfield ticking. He would be a very useful player for any team to have.
I still think United can challenge for the title. They arent doing great at the moment but a few good signings during the Winter (Reus and Baines have been mentioned) could really give them a lift.

As for Arsenal, I don't think their fixture list has been any easier then Chelsea or City. United are so far the only team to have played all their four major rivals (Arsenal, Chelsea, City & Liverpool). All the others have only played two.
Arsenal just have to keep focused and take every game at a time. The return of Walcott, Podolski and Chamberlain are big boosts and will give them even further options.

[TopHat24/7]

I'd be tempted to think of the future more and go for Shaw over Baines.

[Champagne_Socialist]

The City and Chelsea games are the acid test of Arsenal though, who've had it pretty easy fixture-wise so far.  My personal opinion is Liverpool's league position is a fallacy (being the only top club with a more generous fixture list that Arsenal) therefore I was not surprised Arsenal turned them over, but the United match was more telling.  Playing a 'top' side who 'can' play football and push you back and they lost.

Soton have been fantastic this season and the score line in that match flattered Arsenal also (think I read some stat like Soton were the first EPL club to dominate possession at Emirates since it was built). [NB: winning those games is what makes Champions]

We have played Tottenham, Liverpool, Man United, Southampton (who were 3rd at the time) and we are still top by 4 points.

[TopHat24/7]

And?

[Champagne_Socialist]

And?

We obviously haven't had it easy. We had to play tottenham are main rivals at the start of the season. had to play liverpool who were 2nd in the league at the time, we had to play Man u away at old trafford and we had to play southampton who were riding high in the league at the time in 3rd place.

Arsenal 1-0 Tottenham
Arsenal 2-0 liverpool
Man U 1-0 Arsenal
Arsenal 2-0 southampton

Tottenham 2-2 Man u
man U 0-0 Chelsea
liverpool 1-0 man u
man u 1-1 souhampton

[TopHat24/7]

I and most others on this thread have placed Arsenal in a top-tier of 3 teams that are ahead of the rest. Arsenal have not been tested against these two biggest rivals, hence why those matches are acid tests.

[J.Benson II]

As I've said, other than United, all the other major teams have had a similar fixture list.

United have played Chelsea, Liverpool, City & Arsenal.
Chelsea have played United & City.
Liverpool have played United & Arsenal.
City have played United & Chelsea.
Arsenal have played Liverpool & United.

Anyway, beating your rivals is not as important as many are making it sound if you keep slipping up against the smaller teams.
When United won the league back in 2009, they were outclassed both home and away by their nearest rivals that seaon (Liverpool) but their consistency against the lesser clubs kept them top.

[Guest]

How come we weren't included in the tier system? 6th, two points off a City side who can't win away, ahead of Spurs/United, had more wins than Everton & had arguably the toughest fixtures having already played Liverpool, Everton, City, Chelsea, Spurs, WBA??????

I know we are outsiders to achieve anything like a top 4 but that was said in 2011 & we finished 5th. Plus, this year is more crazy than back then, anything could still happen.

[mystiroakey]

If you get Zaha- i am backing you for a 6th spot dude!

[socal1976]

on what basis are people rating wilshere above carrick? potential?

because one players been the key cog in a team thats been there or there about the title every year and played a major part in that team being so successful. while the others been barely playing much at all and been sporadic in a team that's been barely making top four

cant access the stats put up, but dont give much attention to them anyway. carrick has played in a two man midfield with a weak partner for a while, while arteta has been playing in a 3 man midfield in a team that plays more possession football with better players

On the basis that Wilshere, when I watch a game actually does something. I mean he scores goals now and always has been a good playmaker. Carrick is a good solid player but he is not the manager he can't solely claim his standing as an individual on the basis of team accomplishment. I mean then every United player is better than every Arsenal player because they have been cogs in a championship squad, this is not a realistic analysis. Carrick is good, but honestly everyone knocks Wilshere for not scoring goals he scores a few and then they don't give him credit for that either. In terms of his defensive skills I think he never shirks a challenge. I will say that Carrick is more reliable in that regard, but as an individual player on a team I would never take Carrick over Wilshere.

[socal1976]

As I've said, other than United, all the other major teams have had a similar fixture list.

United have played Chelsea, Liverpool, City & Arsenal.
Chelsea have played United & City.
Liverpool have played United & Arsenal.
City have played United & Chelsea.
Arsenal have played Liverpool & United.

Anyway, beating your rivals is not as important as many are making it sound if you keep slipping up against the smaller teams.
When United won the league back in 2009, they were outclassed both home and away by their nearest rivals that seaon (Liverpool) but their consistency against the lesser clubs kept them top.

Great post with good analysis, I mean we see teams like Chelsea dropping points to newcastle, United dropping points to Cardiff, the referee winning three points for Aston Villa against Arsenal and at the end of the day 3 points is 3 points and consistency against the mid and lower ranked teams is often the determining factor for who gets the title. And Arsenal have fared pretty well against the big teams they have played this season whether it is in Europe or the league.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anyone see that Januzaj was nominated for BBC Young SPOTY award?

What an absolute shambles and joke that is

[Guest]

Anyone see that Januzaj was nominated for BBC Young SPOTY award?

What an absolute shambles and joke that is

I've not seen it but if that's true, that's embarrassing. Not only because he ain't English but he's played one brilliant game against Sunderland to merit the nomination.

[mystiroakey]

played two games.

[mystiroakey]

joke of a nomination.

Surely only doing it as some kind of propaganda campaign to make him feel british

[Guest]

BBC's reasoning - Januzaj, 18, has broken into the Manchester United first team, scoring twice on his first start, and is regarded as one of the most promising talents in the game.  

So basically being nominated for his 'promise' instead of actually achieving anything in the year.

          

Luke Shaw - ACTUALLY ENGLISH, BROKEN INTO THE SOUTHAMPTON SIDE & WANTED BY CHELSEA, UNITED ETC! - NOT ON LIST!

[mystiroakey]

Surely if we were going for a footballer it should have been morrison or gibbs

[mystiroakey]

or that little blonds boy will hughes

[Guest]

Big game against Palace tonight, really should be a win for us, which would propel us towards mid-table!!!!

[mystiroakey]

Massive game for me CF.
The game I want to win the most.

Damm cocky west ham fans

[Guest]

im not sure if its cockiness..we're the better side i believe and really should be winning games like this..

[mystiroakey]

It wasnt about you just in general

[Fernando]

I love whoever is trolling on twitter right now seems oddly to have United fans worried and i really can't see why.

Apparently RVP has submitted a transfer request

#EpicTrolling

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

BBC's reasoning - Januzaj, 18, has broken into the Manchester United first team, scoring twice on his first start, and is regarded as one of the most promising talents in the game.  

So basically being nominated for his 'promise' instead of actually achieving anything in the year.

          

Luke Shaw - ACTUALLY ENGLISH, BROKEN INTO THE SOUTHAMPTON SIDE & WANTED BY CHELSEA, UNITED ETC! - NOT ON LIST!

Nathan Redmond, Ross Barkley, Ravel Morrison, Saido Berahino all off the top of my head would warrant it much much more. Utter madness

[mystiroakey]

Ravael better not turn up tonight.

Fans singing there lungs out again..

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