Aviva Premiership Round Eight

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Aviva Premiership Round Eight


Sale Sharks (8th) vs. Worcester Warriors (12th)

Exeter Chiefs (4th) vs. Saracens (1st)

Harlequins (5th) vs. Gloucester Rugby (10th)

Leicester Tigers (6th) vs. London Irish (11th)

London Wasps (7th) vs. Bath Rugby (3rd)

Northampton Saints (2nd) vs. Newcastle Falcons (9th)


Aviva Premiership action is back this weekend, and here are the fixtures. I'll give my thoughts a bit later when I have more time, but feel free to discuss how you see these games going!

Worcester are really hanging by a thread.  If London Irish, Gloucester and Newcastle get wins, then it would take the biggest comeback in recent Premiership history, maybe ever, to avoid relegation.  Last season Sale started with 7 straight losses.  Worcester is now up to 8.  I suppose the good news for Worcester is that London Irish are at Welford Road, Gloucester are at The Stoop, and Newcastle are at Franklin's Gardens.

15. Elliot Daly
14. Jonah Holmes
13. Ben Jacobs
12. Chris Bell (captain)
11. Josh Bassett
10. Andy Goode
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Carlo Festuccia
3. Phil Swainston
4. Tom Palmer
5. Kearnan Myall
6. Ashley Johnson
7. Sam Jones
8. Nathan Hughes
Replacements
16. Neil Cochrane
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Will Taylor
19. Joe Launchbury
20. James Haskell
21. Guy Thompson
22. Charlie Davies
23. Joe Carlisle

Shame Christian Wade is out still with a hammy but a strong bench for Wasps & 2 rather large packs coming together!

Nearly half time and Quins lead Glos 13-5 with a try to Easter.

Glos down a man as well.

Mat smith limped off with what looks like a hamstring. Another centre down. Wonder if we'll see pohe start soon.

On a plus/negative tone depending on how you see it....

someone just proposed at half time!

Quins up to 27-12 against Glos with 10 to go, Easter, Care and Wallace all scored so far. Just one more try for the BP.

Glos have managed two tries of their own and 3 yellow cards.

Listened to the first half of our game on the radio and sounded like we were well in it. Sadly doesn't appear that way now!  

Damn didn't get the tbp vut still a good result either way.

If only Logan/Trevor was here to congratulate COS on masterminding a quality performance  

Ozzy3213 wrote:Listened to the first half of our game on the radio and sounded like we were well in it.  Sadly doesn't appear that way now!  

Yeah you guys were sat in our half for a fair bit, alot of sideways movement though.

Ref made a bore at one point, 10 minutes of Irish giving a way penalties on there 5 meter line. Finally after about 5 penalties he went with a card and then penalty try.

I'll have to watch it nathan. Radio commentary said first penalty try was harsh, and then we had one on your 5 metre line and only a penalty give to us in similar fashion.

Sounded like we might have deserved at least a losing bonus point, but as I say will have a watch of it first once it's online.

Good to see our top try scorer from last season Mr P Try getting a brace. How did he grab those?

Ozzy3213 wrote:I'll have to watch it nathan.  Radio commentary said first penalty try was harsh, and then we had one on your 5 metre line and only a penalty give to us in similar fashion.

Sounded like we might have deserved at least a losing bonus point, but as I say will have a watch of it first once it's online.

First pen try was from a prop driving in under the feet of the tigers front row, or that's what it looked like from about 20 Meters away. Irish only had 1 or 2 penalties on our 5 metre line.

Irish could of also had someone carded from taking a supporting player out in the air, but I could be wrong on that.

As I said I will need to watch it, but from the radio the lead up to the first penalty try went like this...

Tigers knock on, Irish scrum.

Irish shove early, free kick to Tigers.

Tigers elect for a scrum.

Scrum goes down, Irish blamed, penalty try awarded.


No lead up of penalties, and no warning (not that one is required, but usually refs do).


Have no idea on the second one as I was only able to listen to the first half.

Ref made up for it with second one 10 minutes of scrumaging with 7 penalties to Tigers 2 free kicks to Tigers & 2 resets

Cockerill has said first pen try was awarded too quick and second pen try awarded too slow. Probably ref trying to make up for the earlier one by delaying it.

That's a bit shoite if it was, as a penalty try against that early in the game has to have an affect. If we hold out there and don't go 0-7 down it's potentially a very different game.

Ah well, onwards and upwards, Pests at home next week!

On a positive note that means young Balmain must have been doing the business in the front row. He's a 22 year old unit and if he can start taking more experienced looseheads to task we might well see some more of him. Was he on for both penalty tries do we know?

Obviously I haven't seen the game but if the Tigers scrum was marching over the line when they were robbed of the chance to score then fair enough. If the LI scrum penalty was on engagement then that wouldn't be worthy of a penalty try. That's hypothetical obviously.

I think he'd gone off by the time of the second one.

From the rugbynetwork site...
 

BaltiBoy wrote:

A Tigs supporter I know said that the score really did not reflect the game. He said that our pack was largely dominant, however they got away with a very dubious penalty try. Was this the case or was my friend just being nice. Jon R43 can you confirm how our pack performed. To give away 2 penalty tries indicates to me that our pack got munched.

Our pack (Tigers) was far superior, however that first penalty try decision was pretty scandalous and I think that affected the second one. Your lot played pretty much all of the decent rugby and deserved a bonus point comfortably.

The comments on the offy generally agree Tigers were lucky in their scrabbling defence with the LI attack looking dangerous and ours not so much.

It seems Mr Fox may have struck again after the mess he made of the Glaws v Saints match?

Anyone read the interesting news on Dave Rose? He won't be reffing in the prem again any time soon...

If the allegations are true he's been very stupid ...

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Arrest-warrant-issued-Plymouth-premiership-rugby/story-20086563-detail/story.html

£700?

Having seen the first penalty try I can't see how there can be a complaint, it was pretty cynical. Tigers are in complete control the LI backrow has run round and then driven straight through the side of the Tigers scrum causing it to collapse. Not only cynical but also dangerous. Had they not illegally collapsed it then Tigers were over. The Tigers props were touching the try line as it was dragged down, that's five metres they'd already driven the LI pack back.

I still haven't seen it so won't comment until I have.

It was shown in the intro to the Wasps vs Bath game. Didn't show the LI penalty mentioned here though so can't comment on consistency. The second penalty try was just the LI pack trying to wheel it and just seemed to be one of many and therefore a penalty try as the ref lost patience.

Very pleased with that win for Bath, Wasps isn't an easy place to go and I think Bath were pretty decent across the park,albeit with some areas to improve on to deal with Exeters running all court style next week. Nathan Catt was very good at LH, Wales can keep Paul James for another week! Allez Bath!

Another game no one on here expected us to win and certainly not so convincingly. Now we've got superfran Louw for the rest of the season, nothing can stop us.

Well done Bath, impressive win away at Wasps! Did the backs see much of the ball this week though?  

Check the scoresheet, a brace for roko on the wing

Bathite wrote:Check the scoresheet, a brace for roko on the wing

2 intercept tries I heard!  

Ha, yep. Why is no one mentioning this P.Enalty for Tigers? He's looked really useful for the last 2 seasons, scored plenty of tries.

Top try scorer last season.

Bath vs Wasps wasn't a great watch for the neutral. Bath did the job efficiently and I though Ford picked out all the right options at 10, nice drop goal from him as well. Goode was the polar opposite for Wasps and just couldn't find the posts with any kicks.

Garvey was again outstanding.

Well looks as tho the TMO played a significant part in the Exe vs Sarries game - chiefs twice denied. He even managed to answer the ref's "Is there any reason that I cannot award this try?", with an "it's inconclusive"! An apoplectic Mr Baxter post match

stnick88 wrote:Garvey was again outstanding.

Agreed. Awesome for you last year, brilliant for us all season. Can't see how he isn't worth a punt for England? A proper bulky 6, which we don't really have IMO. Not saying he should have Wood or Robshaw's place, but i'd have him above Johnson, Haskell etc

formerly known as Sam wrote:Having seen the first penalty try I can't see how there can be a complaint, it was pretty cynical. Tigers are in complete control the LI backrow has run round and then driven straight through the side of the Tigers scrum causing it to collapse. Not only cynical but also dangerous. Had they not illegally collapsed it then Tigers were over. The Tigers props were touching the try line as it was dragged down, that's five metres they'd already driven the LI pack back.

http://sport.bt.com/video-01363814401986?videoid=2862643990001

I'll let others be the judges of how much truth there is in your assertion that Tigers had driven Irish back 5 metres and the Tigers props were touching the try line for the first penalty try.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Well looks as tho the TMO played a significant part in the Exe vs Sarries game - chiefs twice denied. He even managed to answer the ref's "Is there any reason that I cannot award this try?", with an "it's inconclusive"!  An apoplectic Mr Baxter post match

Perhaps benefit of the doubt should have been given for the 2nd one but Exeter only have themselves to blame in my opinion. Too many errors in the 1st half and were always chasing the game.

Should have been be able to exploit Saracens losing their starting 10 in the first minute and their starting 12 in the around 50 minute mark.

Saracens were forced to play a winger at 13 and a 9 on the wing for that last period of 25 minutes or so.

Exeter also failed to make the most of Saracens playing a 3rd choice loosehead. Saracens scrum was stronger.

I've only seen the first Tigers PT once but I've got to say I really don't agree with the idea it was the right call.

And FKASam, I've got say (with the best intentions) you are really REALLY biased towards Tigers. Not in a bad way, just in the way that you're a fan and you see things in their favour. And this is coming from someone for whom Tigers are probably their preferred Premiership side and I've been to see them live when when brother was in Leicester. Not quite as heavily as Beshocked is with Saracens but close

And can see why as both Tigers and Saracens get a lot of unfair agro from a lot of people (especially on here).

Of course this may well be my own bias speaking. We all have it.

2nd penalty try is definitely right decision.

1st penalty try is ridiculous. how you can give that after 1 scrum I don't know.

that is given on reputation and is poor from the ref.

on the bright side for irish a very nice try.

Yep. No arguments about the 2nd penalty try really. We were under cosh and had repeatedly infringed in the scrum to stop Tigers from driving us back.

First one is an absolutely ludicrous decision.

HammerofThunor bit harsh. I would say Sam is equally as biased myself - not less. Only need to look at him wanting Flood to start for England!

Saracens were a bit fortunate on the weekend that the TMO ruled in our favour but I felt that was counter balanced by the absentees and injuries plus being away from home.

I would be a bit disappointed if Exeter focus on the TMO instead on what they should have done better. Oh and by the way I thought Saracens were a bit foolish in the 2nd half to let Exeter get those opportunities they should have taken.

Its certainly hard to imagine the 1st one would have been given so quickly if the game was at the MadStad.

Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the rules can confirm when exactly a penalty try should be given at scrum time? It tends to be after repeated scrum offenses, but if the referee thought the Leicester scrum would have simply marched the Irish back schoolboy style, then maybe it was right to be given? I'm just wondering if the accepted 3 strikes sort of approach isn't actually in the rules.

Do you think we should stick with Farell by any chance?

Bias is what makes these things interesting. Each of us sees more of our own players than we do of the other teams', which makes their opinion of them more 'important'. But at the same time there is loyalty to the team.

Ashton is Poopie though  

formerly known as Sam wrote:Top try scorer last season.

Bath vs Wasps wasn't a great watch for the neutral. Bath did the job efficiently and I though Ford picked out all the right options at 10, nice drop goal from him as well. Goode was the polar opposite for Wasps and just couldn't find the posts with any kicks.

On the subject of Tigers FH's, do you think there is any truth in the rumour that Freddie Burns will be replacing Flood at Welford road next season?

Bathman_in_London wrote:Its certainly hard to imagine the 1st one would have been given so quickly if the game was at the MadStad.

Maybe someone with a better knowledge of the rules can confirm when exactly a penalty try should be given at scrum time? It tends to be after repeated scrum offenses, but if the referee thought the Leicester scrum would have simply marched the Irish back schoolboy style, then maybe it was right to be given? I'm just wondering if the accepted 3 strikes sort of approach isn't actually in the rules.

Same reason any penalty try should be given, because the ref thinks a try would have been scored without the penalty infringement. Repeat offenses shouldn't come into it really. I remember one for Tigers against Wasps a few years ago. Tigers got the shove on with a 5m scrum, it went a few steps towards the Wasp try line and then the scrum was whipped round. Definate penalty, scrum was marching forwards, penalty try. I think the repeat infringement thing is when the team doesn't allow the dominant side to get the dominance and they just keep taking it down.

Penalty tries are covered under law 10.2(a)

A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored. A player who prevents a try being scored through foul play must either be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.

Essentially repeat infringements don't come into it and never had, although refereeing precedent seems to be that it will be given for repeated infringements when it relates to the scrum. We had it both ways in the Tigers game.

First one given on a first scrum penalty, second one given after 11 scrums, I think 5 of which we were pinged on and 6 were reset.

Hammerofthunor

I would drop Ashton as things stand yes. Unfortunately he hasn't been performing well enough for England. On the other hand he set up Saracen's try vs Exeter which shows he's still a useful player albeit at club level.

Tomkins would have been dropped too.

Yes I would stick with Farrell not because he's a Saracens player.It's because he's a useful player. I think there is room in the England team for players like Farrell but also players like Burns and Ford. It means that you can play different ways.

I do admit when he's poor - he was poor vs Wales,Toulon and Saints last season which cost us dearly but he wasn't the only to blame. On the other hand I think overall he's been pretty good this season and he had a pretty decent Lions tour.

I defend him because someone has to - he gets more stick than I believe he deserves.

He's a 22 year old who has 19 England caps, has been on a winning Lions tour as 2nd choice 10, has an AP title to his name. He has been involved in plenty of wins - both internationally and at club level.

Farrell's alright. He's shown he can do the things he's accused of not doing. Not convinced by the coaching but I think they're going for 'settle as a team, get to know each other, we'll add the fancy stuff when we're ready for it' which is the right way of doing it. Granted Johnson got slated for it but that's life.

Ashton could have done with a break from intenrational rugby IMO. Just to settle his head but injuries robbed us and him of that chance. Tompkin () wasn't great but it would have been stupid to give one game, really he needed the three. Hopefully we'll have someone else putting their hand up (Trinder? Joseph?) for the 6 Nations.