ERC Revenues?

I posted this in the RCC thread but it will get lost in the ERC/PRL/LNR bunfight so thought i'd give it it's own thread. In view of the ERC love/hate on there, i'd like to hear some opinion on this question:

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What do posters think, the kind of Revenues, ERC should be generating for the HC and Amlin as % of what UEFA generate for the CL, Europa and Super cup.

Its a far far smaller market and has a lot less global interest and value but what do people feel ERC should (or could) be achieving?

I'll save the actual numbers till we've had some opinions.

I do not know the amount but one thing is certain if you want to get the best price you try and get as many bidders as possible. Why did the ERC offer the contract to Sky and not invite BT to bid?

and why did ERC negotiated a deal with Sky after the English and French clubs served notice of them pulling out?

1 - How do you know they didn't?
2 - To turn it on its head why didn't PRL invite Sky to bid on their TV contract?

3 - Alternatively maybe BT were already talking to PRL and weren't interested in the ERC because the PRL told them it is history

As to numbers it is very simple it remains a simple case of how much different parties are prepared to outbid each other.

At the current time there are only two big players on the block BT and Sky and it appears that they have jumped on separate sides of the current spate we are witnessing with the consequence that a bidding contest for either of the TV contracts was not on the table.

and why did ERC let the current contract run into its final year?

Scrumpy wrote:and why did ERC negotiated a deal with Sky after the English and French clubs served notice of them pulling out?

Why did PRL negotiate a European Cup TV deal behind the backs of the other Unions/Clubs ?

2 - To turn it on its head why didn't PRL invite Sky to bid on their TV contract?
 
 
Sky rarely bid any higher than what they all ready pay, hence why they lost the Champions League to BT.
 
 
geoff999rugby
"Why did PRL negotiate a European Cup TV deal behind the backs of the other Unions/Clubs ?"
 
Because they and the French clubs had already told ERC that they weren't signing a new contract.

The French were not party to the BT deal.

Saying they were not going to stay in the ERC still doesn't make signing a contract affecting all without consultation a justifiable action and it is that high handedness which in the end could be the deal breaker

geoff999rugby wrote:The French were not party to the BT deal.

Saying they were not going to stay in the ERC still doesn't make signing a contract affecting all without consultation a justifiable action and it is that high handedness which in the end could be the deal breaker

They could have gone about it differently that is true, but if they were able to get a great deal for all clubs then why couldn't ERC.

Scrumpy wrote:2 - To turn it on its head why didn't PRL invite Sky to bid on their TV contract?
 
 
Sky rarely bid any higher than what they all ready pay, hence why they lost the Champions League to BT.
 
 
geoff999rugby
"Why did PRL negotiate a European Cup TV deal behind the backs of the other Unions/Clubs ?"
 
Because they and the French clubs had already told ERC that they weren't signing a new contract.

Perhaps then they know more about this bidding game and cost effective bidding than new kids on the block BT? Perhaps blank-cheque bidding is a fool's game? Perhaps BT might learn from the most savvy broadcasting operator?

On the second one. Well, that made it okay for ERC (Unions and teams not associated with PRL/LNR) to go ahead with their own plans, which included signing a contract with Sky. If PRL think they had rights to sign contracts then I'd guess they couldn't force others not to sign their own?

Scrumpy wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:The French were not party to the BT deal.

Saying they were not going to stay in the ERC still doesn't make signing a contract affecting all without consultation a justifiable action and it is that high handedness which in the end could be the deal breaker

They could have gone about it differently that is true, but if they were able to get a great deal for all clubs then why couldn't ERC.

They didn't get a better deal, they brought a Proposal for a deal - that's all. We learned recently that it wasn't even as large a deal as at first appeared as I believe I read somewhere that the actual BT part was only 20 million? Where was PRL getting the rest of the guarantees to make up the massive shortfall on the quoted money they were initially putting out there?

I see its turned it another ERC love/hate fest!

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Uefa expect to bring in 1,565M Euros for 2103/14 for the their club competitions (1340M for the CL+SC, 225M for the Europa).

ERC expect to bring in 52M Euros for 2013/14.

So ERC's deals are worth 3.3% of UEFA's!!

Ones Soccer ones Rugby

Simple

I'm amazed it got above 1%

andyi wrote:I see its turned it another ERC love/hate fest!

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Uefa expect to bring in 1,565M Euros for 2103/14 for the their club competitions (1340M for the CL+SC, 225M for the Europa).

ERC expect to bring in 52M Euros for 2013/14.

So ERC's deals are worth 3.3% of UEFA's!!

The rugby competition is broadcast into far fewer markets and the overall catchment of CL is global where as rugby has far more limited penetration.

Just as a comparison also, JW makes what €56k per month, so about €14k per week.  Top end CL players can earn around €300k per week.  So that is about 4.7% from rugby to soccer. I was using JW as who I think would be one of the highest paid rugby players, if we were to take the highest paid CL player then that % could be back down to the ERC/UEFA scale quite quickly.

Look at the respective salaries in the game

Top Soccer play earns about £1/2 million a week
Top Rugby player warns about £1million a year

Average squad Rugby play (top level) in England/Ireland earns say £100,000 a year
Average squad Soccer player (top level) in England earns say £40,000 a week

Aviva sponsorship £5 million a year
Barclays sponsorship of the Premiership £40 Million a year but when you add the £147 Million a year
Shirt sponsorship for the Premiership it highlights the chasm between the games

Seems to me 3.3% is about right in terms of financial clout
We are small fry by comparison

andyi wrote:I see its turned it another ERC love/hate fest!

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Uefa expect to bring in 1,565M Euros for 2103/14 for the their club competitions (1340M for the CL+SC, 225M for the Europa).

ERC expect to bring in 52M Euros for 2013/14.

So ERC's deals are worth 3.3% of UEFA's!!

The 1,565 M. Is that from SKY alone? How is it distributed? How many countries involved in Uefa? How many CL+SC viewers compared to how many HEC viewers?

Given that the attendance for just the Premier League is probably greater than the toal attendance for the Jeff/Rabo/Top 14/HEC combined and that the viewing figures also reflect this is this a surprise?

Also the Champions League has a world wide audience to resell to - where could the ERC sell on to and make serious money from - at best a highlights package to the SANZAAR countries and maybe to other bits of Europe - but they're more likely to be traded by the broadcaster as a reciprocal right - we get the SANZAAR they get the HEC and possibly the Jeff/Rabo.

What might be a fairer comparison is what do the rights for cricket go for - e.g. the ICC championship or the World Cup. I'd be interested to see the comparative bids between the cricket and rugby world cups.

Munchkin wrote:

andyi wrote:I see its turned it another ERC love/hate fest!

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Uefa expect to bring in 1,565M Euros for 2103/14 for the their club competitions (1340M for the CL+SC, 225M for the Europa).

ERC expect to bring in 52M Euros for 2013/14.

So ERC's deals are worth 3.3% of UEFA's!!

The 1,565 M. Is that from SKY alone? How is it distributed? How many countries involved in Uefa? How many CL+SC viewers compared to how many HEC viewers?

Geoff, The 1.565M is total revenue from all the TV deals and Sponsorships for the competitions. The same is true for the ERC revenue figure.
Uefa has 54 members of which 52 entered the CL.

As most posters have pointed out (and I did in my OP) the football competitions encompass the whole of Europe and also have a Global pull that club Rugby doesn't.

So it seems most posters reckon the ERC revenue is about right, compared to UEFA. Fair enough.

As a quick aside I see that the "secondary" European competition generates about a fifth of the revenue of the main competition - so it not just European rugby that has problems with it's other cup.

It appears that BT deal was actually a very poor deal for European Rugby.
Sky deal is worth £70 million over 4 years.

BT deal £152 million for 3 years.

However the BT deal it appears had only £20 million for Europe (link Geoff posted on another thread that SecretFly refs)

Meaning £32.5 million would have had to have been raised by the SRU/IRFU/WRU to match it, and one main broadcaster would already have been used.

It appears that since one broadcaster covers 4 Unions that selling it as a package is much more profitable than attempting to sell it as individual Unions.

Also what would stop PRL having sold future deals as 90/10% split between league and Europe? The English clubs would have got stronger, but the European games would have been reduced in value to become meaningless.

andyi wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

andyi wrote:I see its turned it another ERC love/hate fest!

Anyway, for what it's worth:

Uefa expect to bring in 1,565M Euros for 2103/14 for the their club competitions (1340M for the CL+SC, 225M for the Europa).

ERC expect to bring in 52M Euros for 2013/14.

So ERC's deals are worth 3.3% of UEFA's!!

The 1,565 M. Is that from SKY alone? How is it distributed? How many countries involved in Uefa? How many CL+SC viewers compared to how many HEC viewers?

Geoff, The 1.565M is total revenue from all the TV deals and Sponsorships for the competitions. The same is true for the ERC revenue figure.
Uefa has 54 members of which 52 entered the CL.

As most posters have pointed out (and I did in my OP) the football competitions encompass the whole of Europe and also have a Global pull that club Rugby doesn't.

So it seems most posters reckon the ERC revenue is about right, compared to UEFA. Fair enough.

Not Geoff. Munchkin   Yes, Rugby Union is minute in comparison. I don't know if the HEC is worth more than it receives at present. When looking at the Uefa figures it's tempting to think so, but that's coming from a HEC lovin fan  

Kingshu wrote:It appears that BT deal was actually a very poor deal for European Rugby.
Sky deal is worth £70 million over 4 years.

BT deal £152 million for 3 years.

However the BT deal it appears had only £20 million for Europe (link Geoff posted on another thread that SecretFly refs)

Meaning £32.5 million would have had to have been raised by the SRU/IRFU/WRU to match it, and one main broadcaster would already have been used.

It appears that since one broadcaster covers 4 Unions that selling it as a package is much more profitable than attempting to sell it as individual Unions.

Also what would stop PRL having sold future deals as 90/10% split between league and Europe? The English clubs would have got stronger, but the European games would have been reduced in value to become meaningless.

Wasn't it widely reported that the BT deal was a 50% increase over the existing ESPN/SKY deal for the AP games. That was £54M over 3 years, so the Domestic part of the BT deal may be £81M, leaving £71M (or £23.7M a year) for the proposed European comp.