Froch vs Groves: Could Booth have steered Groves to victory?

Something that popped into my mind whilst watching the tearful Booth hugging Groves after his defeat.

Could Booth have changed the outcome of the fight?

It did look like Groves had started to slow down around the 7th and 8th, would Booth have noticed this and got his charge to change his tactics for the last 1/3rd of the fight? If Groves had started to circle and potshot we may well not be talking about 'the stoppage' but rather 'the clinic' that Groves had put on?

Thoughts?

And for future fights would Groves be better off burying the hatchet with Booth? They still seem to be close and Adam obviously cares for Groves and was rooting for him!

I think that Groves was probably surprised by just how well he did using the tactics that he had for 6 rounds - he just couldn't miss with the right, and wanted to try and stop him- not sure that his cornwer could have got him to change tactics even if they wanted him to, but experience may have- Groves will be abetter boxer for this fight.

Groves has buried the hatchet with him by the look of it, but Groves is not going to dump Paddy after he came to his rescue in his hour of need. Especially when everybody was writing Groves off (me included).

I think Booth could have kept him calm when he started getting a little silly with his head. That said, I read the reason Booth left was because Groves stopped listening, so who knows.

Rematch!

As Amir Khan clearly demonstrates, irrespective of the advice your corner gives you, once the bell rings, some fighters simply forget/ignore what they've been told.

Absolutely no guarantees that Groves would have listened to Booth any more than he listened to Fitzpatrick.

Still, however fragile it may be, I'm glad they've made peace.

Unlike Groves, I hear what you're saying  

Something tells me though, that with Booth in his corner he would've stayed out of trouble.

Will be interesting whether Groves thinks of bringing Booth back, but like you say perhaps they just aren't a good fit anymore.

Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Fists of Fury wrote:Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Some possible reasons;

• His punches weren't putting Froch off, as they had been earlier in the fight
  
• He had a good lead (well he should have had)
  
• He has the tools to outbox Froch on the backfoot whilst staying out of danger
  

Groves has already said he sticks with Paddy. He obviously has a great appreciation for what he did for him and called it his best camp, which makes sense as he has never performed so well.

Next time, Groves looks to KO Froch in first half of fight. If it goes more than 6 I see same result, but I could see Groves knocking Froch out in first 6.

How square was Froch in that fight, btw. He is going to end up sparked cold, Hatton stylee if he doesn't offer some side profile next time.

The other question to ask is would Groves have found himself in such a commanding position had Booth been in the corner, don’t want this to come across as me slagging Booth’s abilities off again but as a trainer he is hardly noted for his aggressive tactics in his charges big fights

Seanusarrilius wrote:
How square was Froch in that fight, btw. He is going to end up sparked cold, Hatton stylee if he doesn't offer some side profile next time.

Was surprised that Froch didn't alter his tactics too, after the early scare thought he should have got both hands up and fought in a similar way to how be did against Abraham.

Fists of Fury wrote:Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Little to no trouble?

Tegs wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:
How square was Froch in that fight, btw. He is going to end up sparked cold, Hatton stylee if he doesn't offer some side profile next time.

Was surprised that Froch didn't alter his tactics too, after the early scare thought he should have got both hands up and fought in a similar way to how be did against Abraham.

He looked confused to me as to what he should do. Until McCracken got in his ear for a few rounds. He was caught between wanting to look like he didn't want to look troubled etc. and knowing he needed to be more defence minded because he was getting smacked around like a botty at a S&M convention.

seanmichaels wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Little to no trouble?

Yep, 1 clean shot. 2 at best.

Legs were strong, hands were up, he was fighting back.

How does that constitute trouble? It is merely a direct consequence of being involved in a sport such as boxing that punches will be taken.

Fists of Fury wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Little to no trouble?

Yep, 1 clean shot. 2 at best.

Legs were strong, hands were up, he was fighting back.

How does that constitute trouble? It is merely a direct consequence of being involved in a sport such as boxing that punches will be taken.

Look at his face FFS. From Gareth A Davies at ringside:

That said, Froch took everything on that granite chin of his, and replied with counters and power punches of his own. Both in the eighth and ninth rounds, Froch was beginning to damage Groves, and it was under a barrage of punches that Foster puts his arms around the Londoner to wave the fight off, which caused consternation in the arena.

Saying Groves wasn't hurt at all is as ridiculous saying the ref let the fight go on too long.

Rowley wrote:The other question to ask is would Groves have found himself in such a commanding position had Booth been in the corner, don’t want this to come across as me slagging Booth’s abilities off again but as a trainer he is hardly noted for his aggressive tactics in his charges big fights

Groves never lost with Booth in his corner  

I know, I know level of opposition and all that.

I said at the start of the fourth that Froch was starting to walk through the right hand. The potential of a win was taken away but there's no guarantee he wins without the poor stoppage, he needed to win two of the last three rounds.

seanmichaels wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Why would he do anything different? He was winning comfortably, clearly the superior boxer and was unjustly stopped when in little to no trouble at all. I'd say he did just fine and had his win taken away by some far too jumpy refereeing.

Little to no trouble?

Yep, 1 clean shot. 2 at best.

Legs were strong, hands were up, he was fighting back.

How does that constitute trouble? It is merely a direct consequence of being involved in a sport such as boxing that punches will be taken.

Look at his face FFS. From Gareth A Davies at ringside:

That said, Froch took everything on that granite chin of his, and replied with counters and power punches of his own. Both in the eighth and ninth rounds, Froch was beginning to damage Groves, and it was under a barrage of punches that Foster puts his arms around the Londoner to wave the fight off, which caused consternation in the arena.

Saying Groves wasn't hurt at all is as ridiculous saying the ref let the fight go on too long.

Irrelevant, how many times did we see Hatton looking marked and bruised despite winning his fights? Some fighters cut/swell easily. Cotto is another one.

Jeff Powell of the Daily Mail usuall has it right but even I disagree with part of an article I read on my phone this morning. He talks about refs being the ones with the responsibility to protect fighters from themselves and says that Foster was in the unique position of being able to look into the fighter's eyes to see how much trouble he was in...trouble is, Foster wasn't looking at Groves' face when he stopped it.

I think 99% agree it was a bad stoppage,but the Groves was in a comfortable lead doesn't hold water,if Froch wins the round 10-8 the fight is level,
Froch alway's comes on strong in the later stages of a fight,his stamina has never been in doubt, Groves was tiring from round 7 and I just couldn't see him winning after the 9th, should have been allowed to continue yes, but the momentum of the fight had swung in Frochs favour.  

I don't believe Booth in Groves corner would have made a bit of difference, Paddy had done a hell of a job and Groves should stick with him.

Who says Froch wins the round 10-8? Both throwing punches, both landing and about a minute to go for Groves to do enough work to make it a 10-9 round

Utterly ludicrous suggestion that he'd already done enough to make it 10-8. May as well say that Froch is likely to have KD Groves in that round and give it to him 10-7. It's that sort of reasoning that causes referees to step in early.

If Froch won the 9th round 10-8 he would be ahead on the cards and with those judges theres every chance the round would have been scored 10-8. I dont believe Groves could have won that fight on points. He would have had to thoroughly dominate the remaining rounds to even have a sniff.

Irrelevant stuff this..........Fact is Groves fought the perfect fight but with all the no doubt nervous energy and the workrate he gassed......

Question was would Froch have guessed after the ninth........If he hadn't of put him away...Throwing a lot of punches !!

We never got an answer.......Due to wally-face..........Perhaps we can write graffiti on Curtis Woodhall's blog and sign it Howard Foster.......

Froch was incredibly flat footed and blowing extremely hard in his corner at the culmination of the fight, Truss. My own guess is that he either goes on to lose the last couple of rounds to the fresher Groves or he himself is stopped.

Think the ref saved him there...

catchweight wrote:If Froch won the 9th round 10-8 he would be ahead on the cards and with those judges theres every chance the round would have been scored 10-8. I dont believe Groves could have won that fight on points. He would have had to thoroughly dominate the remaining rounds to even have a sniff.

Oh shut up you fool....clearly suckling on STRONGY's teat far too long

DAVE667 wrote:

catchweight wrote:If Froch won the 9th round 10-8 he would be ahead on the cards and with those judges theres every chance the round would have been scored 10-8. I dont believe Groves could have won that fight on points. He would have had to thoroughly dominate the remaining rounds to even have a sniff.

Oh shut up you fool....clearly suckling on STRONGY's teat far too long

I dont know what you have been sucking on but whatever is its made you made you one of thickest morons I have ever come across. Completely clueless with regards just about everything, obsessed with the poster Strongback, obsessed with David Haye and completely incompetent at grasping even simple arguments.

catchweight wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

catchweight wrote:If Froch won the 9th round 10-8 he would be ahead on the cards and with those judges theres every chance the round would have been scored 10-8. I dont believe Groves could have won that fight on points. He would have had to thoroughly dominate the remaining rounds to even have a sniff.

Oh shut up you fool....clearly suckling on STRONGY's teat far too long

I dont know what you have been sucking on but whatever is its made you made you one of thickest morons I have ever come across. Completely clueless with regards just about everything, obsessed with the poster Strongback, obsessed with David Haye and completely incompetent at grasping even simple arguments.

...and they don't come much simpler than you lad.

He would have had to thoroughly dominate the remaining rounds to even have a sniff

It's just hyperbolic (with emphasis on the bolic) nonsense from you.

'Course I'm obsessed with David Haye...he's luuuurverley!!!!!

Wondrous retorts as always aside DAVE, the reality is your a bit of a thicko. Debating with you is like talking to a child.

Its possible but difficult to say as Groves was doing so well with the tactics he deployed, I don't think he would have been anywhere near as aggressive with booth in his corner, but if he was more conservative, paced himself more then maybe he'd have avoided being in the situation of playing fire with fire against Froch.  Irrespective of the stoppage, from the 6th round he was looking more ragged the longer the fight was going which doesn't necessarily mean he would have lost/got stopped as he showed bags of heart, but maybe if he used his brain, backed off a bit to catch his breath then maybe he'd have avoided being in that position    to give the chance of the ref jumping in.  At the end of the day booth wouldn't have been able to control the actions of the ref regardless how Groves fought.

Volcanicash...................Groves may not be intense next time which may help with his tank......

Has to pace himself better should they fight again..........

Still feel he is way too open throwing punches though.......

What a great kid though......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/25075852

Look at the comments made..

Number 13: Is that you Truss?

DAVE667 wrote:Who says Froch wins the round 10-8? Both throwing punches, both landing and about a minute to go for Groves to do enough work to make it a 10-9 round

Utterly ludicrous suggestion that he'd already done enough to make it 10-8. May as well say that Froch is likely to have KD Groves in that round and give it to him 10-7. It's that sort of reasoning that causes referees to step in early.

Give over, Froch was winning the 9th round comfortably,the fight shouldn't have been stopped, but no way was Groves was going to win that round,must have watched a different 9th round to everyone else,there was only one fighter in bother in the 9th and it wasn't Froch.

Don't think Jeff Powell usually has it right at all, Dave. He was another to score the contest 76-75, somehow giving Froch the 3rd and 6th, but giving Groves the 7th, one of Froch's better rounds!

Another of the ageing clowns who represent so much of the boxing press now and don't help the sport in its quest for relevance.

Trussmanns...Agreed mate, he looked sensational, I just couldn't believe the 1st round, I'm still shocked about that now, lol.  I do feel for Froch as well though as he again showed his resilience, I've just watched it again on youtube and think he did a lot better than people are giving him credit for, the first time I watched it I though he was absolutely pummelled but it wasn't as bad as on first viewing, and  Jim Watt was so biased it was pretty sickening.  And just before the stoppage watt says Froch is going to finish it here and when it actually is stopped both commentators both go on a tirade of how controversial it is and rightfully so, but clearly the commentry was biased for the the majority of the fight.  Yes Groves deserved huge credit as he was fantastic and no one thought he'd fight that way, but that doesn't mean Froch doesn't deserve any and now thanks to the ref (when I saw it was a British ref at the beginning I did think this could end in controversy) we'll never know the true outcome whatever way the fight is looked at.  But yes irrespective of the outcome Groves has now proved he belongs at this level and considering the problems he's had in the buildup to the fight it just makes him look even better.