Are the wheels falling off at Racing Metro?

Some may remember a similar post of mine.... in this vein with regard to Clermont Auvergne last season.

Racing have spent probably more money on players in the space of little more than a season than any other clubs with the exception of Toulon.  They have brought in players of the caliber of Jonny Sexton, Jamie Roberts, Dan Lydiate, Soane Tonguiha, Marc Andreu and Brian Mujati just in the last season.  This is adding to a team sheet which already included names such as Juan Martin Hernandez, Dimitri Szarzewski and Juan Imhoff.  Jacky Lorenzetti since taking over in 2006 has pumped colossal amounts of money into this club, not just the squad of players but throughout the club as a whole.

Despite this unprecedented level of investment (unprecedented again with the exception of Toulon)  Racing Metro lie 8th in the Top14 and have just been comprehensively hammered by Harlequins, who worryingly... in the context of this result, have also had their struggles this season.  They are now most likely out of the tournament just three matches in and their chances of making the latter stages of the Top14 also look slim.  Not just on account of their current league position but also their incredibly disappointing performances which have an aura of lethargy about them.  Their all star line ups look apathetic and disinterested.  

Jackie Lorenzetti has been one of the main players in the failed attempt to setup a new tournament (RCC).  He has in the space of 6 years taken over a club, pumped huge sums of money into it, been at the forefront of trying to get rid of the HC and ERC along with it and join Europeans rugby's elite with his all star squad and never ending cheque book.  Lorenzetti has failed in just about all of this, thus far at least.  
Which bring me onto the rather alarming statement which has just been made by Racing and Lorenzetti.  They have cancelled plans to play Toulon at France's national rugby stadium - the Stade de France.  The statement claims that they do not consider themselves good enough to play at this stadium as they are not one of rugby's elite.  However, it is said that they have struggled to sell anything close to the 80'000 tickets which would see the stadium filled against current European champions Toulon, this is in spite of a huge marketing effort throughout Paris....and beyond.  Their last match at the Stade de France saw Racing only shift 32'000 tickets leaving the stadium with 50'000 empty seats and that was against Paris rivals Stade Francais so it looks like they have sold even less for the Toulon game.


The statement reads....

"In light of the result against Harlequins on Saturday this has forced us to accept we are not part of the great teams of the moment."  The Stade de France is reserved for such teams and we do not belong there."  

The match against Toulon has now been cancelled and will instead be played at Racing's own rather discreet ground Colombes.  Is Jackie Lorenzetti's grand vision for Racing crumbling?  Will the money and star players eventually begin to tell?  Can we take anything from this with Lorenzetti's other grand vision which is that of the future of European rugby in a new tournament.  Is this guy a bit of a dreamer?

Sorry if this is a bit long

Statement here:

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/racing-metro-harlequins-jonny-seton-1212572-Dec2013/

Just learning there's more to winning than throwing money at various players from different teams and hoping it all comes good overnight.

Travers and Labit are very good coaches, given time. But having that idiot Lorenzetti around can't be good for morale. The man appears to be a spoilt egotistical moron, an increasingly common personality type in English and French Rugbys boardrooms.

Even if the French sides enter 8 sides into next years Heineken Cup they still have a lot of work to do to qualify and they're not hard to root against.

They have certainly gone backwards in the last 3 years. The more big names they sign, the poorer they get. Funny thing that but what do you expect... New manager every year, new players getting thrown in, old players alienated. Recipe for disaster.

Notch wrote:The man appears to be a spoilt egotistical moron

Yep, this is why I'm drawing a comparison to his other vision (aside from Racing) which is a new European rugby tournament.  These guys seem to envisage themselves as becoming the cream of European rugby.  Thus far they are looking like nothing more than highly delusional toffs with more money than they know what to do with.

Didn't it take Toulon a few years before they got a bit settled?

HammerofThunor wrote:Didn't it take Toulon a few years before they got a bit settled?

He's had 6, and the player mentioned above are just the latest wave.  In 2006 when he took over he increased the budget of the club from 2 million euros to 10 million euros.  Thats when they were in Division 2.  Upon reaching the Top14 he brought in players such as Andrew Mehrtens and Francois Steyn.  This guy has really come out of nowhere in buying a division 2 club, pumping an obscene amount of money into them whilst at the same time trying to fundamentally alter European rugby as a whole.

The reason I focus on Lorenzetti a lot if because I am wondering does he have any sense at all or just a hell of a lot of ego and money?

Lorenzetti is a Tinkywinky. Delighted for a proper club like Quins

Id like to see a European wide salary cap of between 10-15m. Teams could then spent any extra money they have on academy and stadium upgrades.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Id like to see a European wide salary cap of between 10-15m. Teams could then spent any extra money they have on academy and stadium upgrades.

I'd like to see a euro wide cap of three million before the sports spends itself broke. What has happened at clubs like racing is not good for rugby, all it does is make the sport more expensive for everyone.

Best thing that could happen to European rugby would be for Racing to go bust

geoff998rugby wrote:Best thing that could happen to European rugby would be for Racing to go bust

It would be great to see the IRB take some control in protecting the future of the game against these individuals who make such a large investment that does so little for the sport.

Quins need to be wary going into next week. We (Irish - back when we were good) smashed Racing at their place a few seasons back, playing some fantastic Rugby (I was there - one of the best nights of my life )…Racing turned up at the Madstad a week later and were a completely different prospect and took the game away from us. Quins are probably a better side than we were back then and probably also more consistent, but with the players that they have Racing can never be written off. It will be a closer affair than Saturday's match that's for sure.

The simple fact is that Quins performed better than the sum of their parts, with many of the team coming through the academy.

Racing, for all their so called superstars, didn't look like they were playing for each other. No 'soul' to them, and no pride in the shirt.

Travers & Labit have a lot of work to do with their mercenaries.

Simple fact is that Roberts, Lydiate, and Phillips, Machenaud, Hernandez aren't all that great.

Also buying props is hardly going to change their team especially in the Top 14 where every team has a good scrum. Their front 5 is decent but their back row isn't great and won't dominate teams.

Sexton, Imoff, and Plante are all very good but besides that they don't have much else.

Racing aren't out though. There are still 3 matches to go and the group looks - ASM 10 points, Quins 7 points, Scarlets 6, Racing 6. Anyone could still go through

Everyone has something to play for - it's a very dangerous group in that respect. Racing will definitely up their game next week and Quins' home form hasn't been great - but we should be able to field much the same team and a stronger bench, and the teams' tails are up.

The truism of HEC pool stages is "win at home, pick up bonus points away, hope to turn over at least one team on the road". Quins have done well on two of those - but need to offset the loss to the Scarlets with an away win and as many bps as we can find. To pick up a tbp against Clermont at the Stoop next year is too much to ask, but in this sort of form it's possible against one or both of Racing or Scarlets.

Racing have never looked particularly good since joining the T14.

Like a few other French teams they seem to have an identity crises going on. Not good for Paris rugby in general.

Lets hope next week we get a better performance but Quins still win it (maybe Std Francais style).

Racing are just a Rugby club - if they fail, there will be another to take their place. The owner has been happy to take risks with his money but as the risks are diversified amongst owners it is just the nature of a professional league.

There seems to be a view that finances should always be set by the lowest common denominator - that is just not realistic in the professional game no matter how much folk might pine for a more benevolent amateur era.

Racing are not just another club to their fans.............. to the area they inhabit.  Yes, just another club to you, a few hundred miles away - but not to the people who support them.

Now, what specific team do you support Recwatcher?  And do you regard it as just another rugby club?

This willingness to see club rugby and clubs themslves as just meaningless tools in the larger global financial trade is new to 606 - it's new because people were forced to take sides - 'old values' of trust, ritual, habit and history versus 'new values' of capitalist reality, market value, product placement, voting supremecy and sound economic viabilty.

So people now pretend that all along they've always seen rugby in terms of b&W photgraphs of ye good old days or they pretend that all along, they've always regarded rugby in purely cold, functional and commercial terms.

Congrats to PRL for awakening the followers of money as another sub-grouping of rugby fans.

maestegmafia wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Best thing that could happen to European rugby would be for Racing to go bust

It would be great to see the IRB take some control in protecting the future of the game against these individuals who make such a large investment that does so little for the sport.

So what you are saying is ..'Please dont invest money in this sport - it's bad for it'. (Sounds a bit like the current Welsh model)

The end product here isnt great but what you say is questionable at best

You are getting far too carried away Secret- when I say fail - they don't qualify or they get relegated and a different team perhaps with a different ethos takes over.

You seem to suggest some 'club' teams should be set in stone as the elite. Perhaps if they have the majority of test players who are used to playing the 6N or SH that will be the case but nothing should be set in stone.

My own AP team haven't qualified in quite a while and the Junior team have no interest in the euro comps - they have far more important teams to beat.

Bribe money is bribe money.  In a parallel world, you might call a bribe an 'investment' but a bribe isn't an investment - it's an often illegal activity designed to use money to gain power.  Just ask the football world what an 'investment' in a player's welfare is if he's asked to take a yellow card to get it

Recwatcher wrote:You are getting far too carried away Secret- when I say fail - they don't qualify or they get relegated and a different team perhaps with a different ethos takes over.

You seem to suggest some 'club' teams should be set in stone as the elite.  Perhaps if they have the majority of test players who are used to playing the 6N or SH that will be the case but nothing should be set in stone.

My own AP team haven't qualified in quite a while and the Junior team have no interest in the euro comps - they have far more important teams to beat.

I'm not getting carried away - I'm dissecting your points and returning them to you for your opinion on them.  Thanks for your opinion on them.
I didn't say one team should always be on top and others should always be on the bottom - that's more akin to the fun of relegation which I personally despise.  

But you pretend you understand the cool economics of a PRL venture and I fail to see how anyone who loves rugby for the game itself could have such a bleak humourless bankers eye on the sport they profess to love.  I say again - to you Racing is just another team but not to its supporters.

Besides, that's the very part of the PRL proposals I'm most against - the idea that the cream that can 'afford' to rise to the top, should do so, and the others - the Scottish and Italian teams of this world - should just accept the economic truth that money buys skill and abilty and a place eternally at the top (perhaps even using bought up Scottish and Italian players) - like the perenial top dogs in football.

So as you disagree with me - you actually agree with me.  That solution is morally wrong.

What have PRL got to do with how Racing Metro are playing?

Hound of Harrow wrote:What have PRL got to do with how Racing Metro are playing?

Ask Recwatcher...he alluded to the disparity between the ancient old code of amateurism and the new bright world of professionalism.  Meaning, 'let's not be too sad if Racing goes down - it's business'.  
Meaning, 'you old traditionalists are holding things back '  
Meaning, 'did we all talk about these things on the PRL threads?'

Have Roberts and Lydiate actually played for Racing yet? Anytime Ive seen them the two of them have been injured

Watching them yesterday it seems to be a real problem with diverging philosophies, Racing don’t seem to have one and they are trying to bring in players who are used to playing the game in different ways

Dont forget players like Tongahuia were on the decline at Saints...well they werent playing to their best shall we say.

Quins played well though, they have a good team.

Secret, you seem to be confusing me with someone who likes the current direction of travel as opposed to someone who accepts what professionalism inevitably brings. There is room for variety but you appear to want everyone to adhere to the same centrally controlled elitist model.

I am sure you will answer with another conundrum as is your perogative.

Well, Fly - I didn't read it as that strident. Just the difference beteen sides run by owners and those run by unions. One is potentially risky and the other not so.

But the club owners here, and across La Manche, know they could lose money.

Recwatcher wrote:Racing are just a Rugby club - if they fail,  there will be another to take their place. The owner has been happy to take risks with his money but as the risks are diversified amongst owners it is just the nature of a professional league.

There seems to be a view that finances should always be set by the lowest common denominator - that is just not realistic in the professional game no matter how much folk might pine for a more benevolent amateur era.

RW

I completely disagree with you.

My point would be that the sport doesn't have to follow Football, that is not a great example of a well run professional sport it is a poor one with little care for those who could fail.

Rugby is a massively smaller sport and a financial failure could seriously effect the sport. There is no reason why wages have to escalate at such a ridiculous rate.

The whole sport could be managed sensibly, the costs kept lower so that the sport makes a profit that can be reinvested into the game. There are very very few clubs in the black in Europe, that is not a good way to run a sport, making it more expensive, less competitive will make life harder.

Recwatcher wrote:Secret,  you seem to be confusing me with someone who likes the current direction of travel as opposed to someone who accepts what professionalism inevitably brings.  There is room for variety but you appear to want everyone to adhere to the same centrally controlled elitist model.

I am sure you will answer with another conundrum as is your perogative.

I accept how people vote in an election.  I don't lie down and not speak my mind before one.  Is that unconundrumy enough for you, Recwatcher?

Nothing I will do will stop the future, whatever it will be but I'll certainly have my opinion on it.  So you call the present 'elitist' - and I'll call the predicted future elitism-in-waiting - which is what high-end professionalism always is.

lostinwales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Best thing that could happen to European rugby would be for Racing to go bust

It would be great to see the IRB take some control in protecting the future of the game against these individuals who make such a large investment that does so little for the sport.

So what you are saying is ..'Please dont invest money in this sport - it's bad for it'.  (Sounds a bit like the current Welsh model)....

We have a model???? Could someone let the WRU know. Ta.

marty2086 wrote:Have Roberts and Lydiate actually played for Racing yet? Anytime Ive seen them the two of them have been injured

Watching them yesterday it seems to be a real problem with diverging philosophies, Racing don’t seem to have one and they are trying to bring in players who are used to playing the game in different ways

Roberts and Lydiate seem to be injured for their clubs sides but manage to turn up for internationals, Metro may get another bit part player with Warburton, with luck they will help them go bust. Wales are oing a good job getting shot of part time players like Charteris another example.

glamorganalun wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Have Roberts and Lydiate actually played for Racing yet? Anytime Ive seen them the two of them have been injured

Watching them yesterday it seems to be a real problem with diverging philosophies, Racing don’t seem to have one and they are trying to bring in players who are used to playing the game in different ways

Roberts and Lydiate seem to be injured for their clubs sides but manage to turn up for internationals, Metro may get another bit part player with Warburton, with luck they will help them go bust. Wales are oing a good job getting shot of part time players like Charteris another example.

I always thought I must be hallucinating or just not looking closely enough at Welsh Regions teamsheets, but I've felt for a number of years that I always seem to miss seeing the Welsh Internationals actually playing much Pro12 rugby...or being very very quiet as they play it So yes, I'm interested that others seem to see it. And the outsiders always say it's only the Irish who seem to never show up for Pro12 duty

Agree - a lot of the Welsh internationals rarely seem to turn out for their clubs/regions, and often phone-in performances when they do - especially Roberts. Exceptions would be Hibbard, AWJ, Falatau. The regional game has clearly become of little interest to most of them - which is probably why they're all jumping ship!

Delighted for Quins proper club.

Racing are awful they symbolise everything wrong in rugby. Mercenaries with no pride or passion in the jersey. I'm sure Sexton is feeling homesick.

Very much so and I also hate everything about them and their mercenary approach to club rugby. I said it at the time that this could not have been a worse move for Sexton and his career. I think that we will see him drop in form so much that he will fade away from the international scene if he doesn't go back to Leinster in the near future.

How long is Sextons contract at Racing? He must have enough to buy himself out or perhaps the IRFU would help him? Either way staying at Racing can't be a good thing for him.

Racing as a ream looked like they couldn't give a Poopie today, no interest in playing rugby. Just in causing trouble and trying to start fights.

Since when was a punch a yellow not red?

marty2086 wrote:Have Roberts and Lydiate actually played for Racing yet? Anytime Ive seen them the two of them have been injured

Watching them yesterday it seems to be a real problem with diverging philosophies, Racing don’t seem to have one and they are trying to bring in players who are used to playing the game in different ways

Lydiate has played a fair bit or had done but he has said there is a fair bit of rotation that goes on, also they play left and right as opposed to blind and open which he is adapting to.

That said if he feels homesick I am sure we would welcome him back at Dave with open arms.

I agree Nacho he has wasted 2 prime years of his career. He won't be thanking his agent thats for sure.

As an Irish fan, Leinsterfan4life, I was fuming that he went. Ireland premier 10 and he should never have been allowed to leave.

Nachos Jones wrote:As an Irish fan, Leinsterfan4life, I was fuming that he went. Ireland premier 10 and he should never have been allowed to leave.

Welcome to our World

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:As an Irish fan, Leinsterfan4life, I was fuming that he went. Ireland premier 10 and he should never have been allowed to leave.

Welcome to our World

Yep, not a great world for the Welsh, you guys have been affected more than anyone.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Since when was a punch a yellow not red?

Yep one of those making it up as he goes along decisions.

Nachos Jones wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:As an Irish fan, Leinsterfan4life, I was fuming that he went. Ireland premier 10 and he should never have been allowed to leave.

Welcome to our World

Yep, not a great world for the Welsh, you guys have been affected more than anyone.

Nachos,

Thing is you can't blame them, the money the French are throwing about is stupid compared to whats on offer in Wales and possibly Ireland (not know).

I have never begrudged the 'older' players going get little bit of nest egg before retiring but it is worrying seeing the likes of North, Lydiate, JD etc all going and then the likes of Matthew Morgan and Steffan Jones being linked with moves away.

Nachos Jones wrote:Very much so and I also hate everything about them and their mercenary approach to club rugby. I said it at the time that this could not have been a worse move for Sexton and his career. I think that we will see him drop in form so much that he will fade away from the international scene if he doesn't go back to Leinster in the near future.

I hope SOB and Heaslip are looking at what Sexton is going through when they think about going to France. If they really want to go to France and make lots of cash then go to a real club - Clermont, Toulouse, Montpellier maybe- not to a moneybags outfit owned by a lunatic like Lorenzetti. Better still, IRFU break out the chequebook and at least keep SOB here

Sexton just looks tired. It was said in the rugby paper that he isn't used to playing week in week out.

Poor little boy. Not used to playing every week. What a wimp. And Lydiate was toilet too.

Racing, in common with many of the French sides have little interest in the Heineken, their target is always the domestic league. Few French sides travel well anyway.