rugby related independance question

Despite the threat of violence from RDW, I thought I'd pose a question connected to independance.

If Scotland goes independant, what happens to the name of the British & Irish Lions?

I'm assuming Scotland would still be invited to take part, so would the name of the team become the British, Irish and Scottish Lions? Or just The Lions for ease?

Please don't turn this into an independance debate, it will make RDW cry, but feel free to make jokes about it not mattering as Scotland won't have any players good enough to play!   

Who?

In all seriousness if that happens then imo the British Lions should be consigned to the history books.

Maybe a NH team formed from all the nations in the 6 Nations would be an option.

The British and Irish Lions and The Token Scot destined to develop chillblains.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The British and Irish Lions and The Token Scot destined to develop chillblains.

 Hmmmm

A few points......

(a) Thankfully Scotland won't become independent. According to the latest polls only 35% of the country are stupid.

(b) You've pre-empted the obvious jokes about our now usual level of representation, suffice to say that it'll probably still be called the British and Irish Lions - Scotland still being part of the island called "Great Britain" in any case (unless Toad Face and the Sturge decide to physically separate Scotland from the remainder of Great Britain, presumably on the grounds that all the people who lose their jobs because of the whole silly fiasco will need something to do, so why not dig a big hole and create a boundary moat - incidentally that wouldn't be the dumbest suggestion in the White Paper....).

(c) On a serious note, I'm sure we'll be allowed to participate. They need Dr Robson if nothing else, and if you pay any attention to ASBO (few do), they'll need Mark Bennett for at least the next three tours (assuming the Irish don't lobby effectively for BOD to be stitched back together to protect the "spirit of the Lions").

Well technically British, Irish and Scottish Lions would be the correct name to use - or Lions.

Given that Ireland is not part of Britain I'd say the outcome of the independence referendum will have pretty much no impact on the Lions.

It may mean the quest for a British male Wimbledon champion to follow Fred Perry is back on the agenda though.....

I think they stopped being British and Irish lions when they named Flutey in the side and started relying so heavily on SH coaches, personally. NZ was more heavily represented in the last Lions series than Scotland.

I think they should be combined with the other struggling, historical combined team and call them the Touring Barbarians.

lostinwales wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The British and Irish Lions and The Token Scot destined to develop chillblains.

 Hmmmm

  

Wasn't me.

funnyExiledScot wrote:A few points......

(a) Thankfully Scotland won't become independent. According to the latest polls only 35% of the country are stupid.

(b) You've pre-empted the obvious jokes about our now usual level of representation, suffice to say that it'll probably still be called the British and Irish Lions - Scotland still being part of the island called "Great Britain" in any case (unless Toad Face and the Sturge decide to physically separate Scotland from the remainder of Great Britain, presumably on the grounds that all the people who lose their jobs because of the whole silly fiasco will need something to do, so why not dig a big hole and create a boundary moat - incidentally that wouldn't be the dumbest suggestion in the White Paper....).

(c) On a serious note, I'm sure we'll be allowed to participate. They need Dr Robson if nothing else, and if you pay any attention to ASBO (few do), they'll need Mark Bennett for at least the next three tours (assuming the Irish don't lobby effectively for BOD to be stitched back together to protect the "spirit of the Lions").

now if they said they wanted to dig a moat I'd be right up for that!!!

Do others think the Lions should be scrapped like Scrumpy says? The irony of Scotland being the nail in the coffin is rather poetic!

Here we go.   

Just to confirm that I will red pen and delete posts if this turns into an independence squabbling session - try to keep it to sport people!

Saying that, we might be fine if ASBO fails to notice this thread - he's the only one on here that seems to be pro-independence anyway! Or at least the only one that will admit it….

On to the subject in hand - the Lions has too much history and attracts too much interest for it to cease to exist if independence happens.  And as has been said, Great Britain is an island, we are on the island.

Scotland in or out of the UK is part of the British Isles. At least the last time I looked.

unless Toad Face

FES

He really does look like a toad doesnt he! I cant stand the sight of him.

fa0019 wrote:Scotland in or out of the UK is part of the British Isles. At least the last time I looked.

Off topic from rugby, but come the next Olympics would 'Team GB' have to come up with a new name, since it wouldn't involve Scotland? 'Team GB minus Scotland'? Not so catchy...

Oh and RDW...i feel almost part of it...Newcastle is often refered to as a little town in Scotland anyway by all the Soft Southern Fairies   

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Scotland in or out of the UK is part of the British Isles. At least the last time I looked.

Off topic from rugby, but come the next Olympics would 'Team GB' have to come up with a new name, since it wouldn't involve Scotland? 'Team GB minus Scotland'? Not so catchy...

that team would be called "England" as everyone knows that Wales isn't a real country! it's just a principality!   

Would be just like the cricket team - just called "England"   

Note: I'm assuming Northern Ireland won't care and will just go with the flow of whatever!

I think you'll all find that the Lions is one of the "shared assets" of the United Kingdom. It is as much Scotland's as it is the rest of the UK (and Ireland). It's a bit like the pound sterling, if we can't share it then no-one should have it.

That makes sense surely.....

tigertattie wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Scotland in or out of the UK is part of the British Isles. At least the last time I looked.

Off topic from rugby, but come the next Olympics would 'Team GB' have to come up with a new name, since it wouldn't involve Scotland? 'Team GB minus Scotland'? Not so catchy...

that team would be called "England" as everyone knows that Wales isn't a real country! it's just a principality!   

Would be just like the cricket team - just called "England"   

Note: I'm assuming Northern Ireland won't care and will just go with the flow of whatever!

Jeezo, now you've gone and brought the Welsh and Northern Irish into it!   

I've always wondered why it is 'Team GB' when there are Northern Irish athletes in it...

No Idea RDW

So. Folk are saying that Scotland would still be British if it went independent???

So it would still just be the British and Irish Lions?

Because we don't really matter to them.

Also, we supply athletes to both Team GB and Team Ireland so we're more a shady geopolitical gray area than anything else as far as the IOC is concerned!

Notch - you see Rory Mcillroy's interview where he said he was undecided whether to represent GB or Ireland at Rio?

Can't be easy for these guys to know what's best.

Scotland for independence! Just so I can start supporting Murray without having to hear how British he is every 5 seconds.

tigertattie wrote:No Idea RDW

So. Folk are saying that Scotland would still be British if it went independent???

So it would still just be the British and Irish Lions?

The United Kindom of Great Britain is a political Union between countries, the Lions is a sporting team made up of 4 rugby Unions. The two are not tied together.

Do you think that British Golf players will be excluded from the Ryder Cup or European tour if Britain leaves the EU?

The EU is constitutionally specifically not a political union, so it's not the same thing at all.

The current Lions teams is made up of the Shamrock, Leek, Rose and Thistle so if Wales' 6N form continues into 2017, I imagine we'll still be talking about the Sham Leeks side with a few pr icks added in for good measure.   

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Scotland for independence! Just so I can start supporting Murray without having to hear how British he is every 5 seconds.

Oh come on LF4L, if he wins hes British if he loses he's Scottish...its very simple   

RDW_Scotland wrote:Notch - you see Rory Mcillroy's interview where he said he was undecided whether to represent GB or Ireland at Rio?

Can't be easy for these guys to know what's best.

What's best is not to answer stupid questions about it.

In most cases it is extremely simple - you play for the team that you are selected for in line with the which country the governing body of your chosen sport is aligned to.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Scotland for independence! Just so I can start supporting Murray without having to hear how British he is every 5 seconds.

Oh come on LF4L, if he wins hes British if he loses he's Scottish...its very simple   

ahh it all makes sense now!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Notch - you see Rory Mcillroy's interview where he said he was undecided whether to represent GB or Ireland at Rio?

Can't be easy for these guys to know what's best.

It is a bit of an odd one. Can only go with the heart I say!

It's like the Ireland rugby team singing their anthyms. Some sing both, some sing one but not the other! It just looks rather unconfortable!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Here we go.   

Just to confirm that I will red pen and delete posts if this turns into an independence squabbling session - try to keep it to sport people!

Saying that, we might be fine if ASBO fails to notice this thread - he's the only one on here that seems to be pro-independence anyway! Or at least the only one that will admit it….

On to the subject in hand - the Lions has too much history and attracts too much interest for it to cease to exist if independence happens.  And as has been said, Great Britain is an island, we are on the island.

umm no. I am pro as well.

If they can keep the pound then we can keep the lions. In fact if they keep the pound then we can do what the hell we like.

The british isles is the geographical enitiy of this archipelago of islands - including the channel islands, isle of man and the island of Ireland etc.

the united kingdom includes some but not all of the smaller isles but obviously not eire
Great britain is just the mainland including scotland and the scottish islands, Britain is england and wales.

Anyway

ITS SCOTLANDS OIL!     



Just for RDW

Dig the moat, extend the wall with barbed wire, send all the foreigners home. Extend Offas Dyke and ditto, we already have the Irish Sea.

England for the English.


Well not really, but everyone else has or is having a vote except the English. We are stuck with whoever wants to be joined with us but have no say in who we want to join with.

It's a bit like Zimbabwe voting whether or no to be part of South Africa without the South Africans having any say in it. No other country would put up with it.

No independent talk remeber - RDW will blow a gasket. Just a tiny point. it takes two to agree to marry but only one to decide to divorce

TJ wrote:The british isles is the geographical enitiy of this archipelago of islands - including the channel islands, isle of man and the island of Ireland etc.......

It's a disputed definition though.

How about the 'Barbarian Lions'? That would generate some decent brand awareness scores.

Disputed? Who by? Its like saying Scandinavia or north America or the Indian subcontinent. all multi country areas geographically described

British naming and identity is very confusing tho - especially that Britain is really only england and wales - the great being added when Scotland joined

No reas0on why the british and Irish lions would not remain the name

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute

TJ wrote:No independent talk remeber - RDW will blow a gasket.  Just a tiny point.  it takes two to agree to marry but only one to decide to divorce

TJ,

Only one is being asked, the other doesn't have a say. It's stuck in a potentially loveless marriage.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Notch - you see Rory Mcillroy's interview where he said he was undecided whether to represent GB or Ireland at Rio?

Can't be easy for these guys to know what's best.

Normally it is because most Olympic athletes are low profile. Even someone like Darren Clarke or Graeme McDowell wouldn't cause much of a stir either way. But McIlroy is the opposite of low-profile. Whatever he chooses someone is going to go for him, he'll be getting abuse from morons whatever happens. He'll also feel like he's letting someone down whatever he chooses. He's in a tough spot.

I just hope if he does play, he plays well.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Scotland in or out of the UK is part of the British Isles. At least the last time I looked.

Off topic from rugby, but come the next Olympics would 'Team GB' have to come up with a new name, since it wouldn't involve Scotland? 'Team GB minus Scotland'? Not so catchy...

Nope. would still be team gb. scotland leaving wouldnt change the "B" and would only enhance the "G"....  

just kidding of course

mckay1402 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Here we go.   

Just to confirm that I will red pen and delete posts if this turns into an independence squabbling session - try to keep it to sport people!

Saying that, we might be fine if ASBO fails to notice this thread - he's the only one on here that seems to be pro-independence anyway! Or at least the only one that will admit it….

On to the subject in hand - the Lions has too much history and attracts too much interest for it to cease to exist if independence happens.  And as has been said, Great Britain is an island, we are on the island.

umm no.   I am pro as well.  

for the record, i'm pro too. everyone should get their chance to do something positive. scots in scotland have spent too long resenting the english to even know what they might be capable of. give it a go.   

GeordieFalcon wrote:Oh and RDW...i feel almost part of it...Newcastle is often refered to as a little town in Scotland anyway by all the Soft Southern Fairies   

Newcastle is so hard, that if there were a war between Scotland (minus our nukes) and Newcastle, i'd bet on Newcastle.

returning to your OP, pretty sure, in the event of independence, they would have to be the British, Scottish and Irish Lions.

Or, as you say, The Lions.

Everyone knows that imports are better players, ask NZ, so it could be a drastic way to get more Scots picked to go on Lion's tours as they would inevitably be better if they weren't part of the UK.

quinsforever wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Here we go.   

Just to confirm that I will red pen and delete posts if this turns into an independence squabbling session - try to keep it to sport people!

Saying that, we might be fine if ASBO fails to notice this thread - he's the only one on here that seems to be pro-independence anyway! Or at least the only one that will admit it….

On to the subject in hand - the Lions has too much history and attracts too much interest for it to cease to exist if independence happens.  And as has been said, Great Britain is an island, we are on the island.

umm no.   I am pro as well.  

for the record, i'm pro too. everyone should get their chance to do something positive. scots in scotland have spent too long resenting the english to even know what they might be capable of. give it a go.   

This isn't a decision on whether to buy a white pair of rugby boots or not - I'm not sure 'just give it a go' is the correct attitude to have over an irreversible decision to separste Scotland from the UK!

If scotland went independent from England they could then join up with France, they might get more players into a French Lions team.

It might not be irreversible. We could always send a gun boat to plant a British flag on Ben Nevis and say it's ours again if things don't work out.

A gun boat to Ben Nevis?! Is global warming causing the sea levels to rise that fast. Run / swim for your lives!!!

Think for a moment about us poor English. Without the Scottish MP's we might as well just accept Cameron as life president and give up on politics all together...

quinsforever wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Oh and RDW...i feel almost part of it...Newcastle is often refered to as a little town in Scotland anyway by all the Soft Southern Fairies   

Newcastle is so hard, that if there were a war between Scotland (minus our nukes) and Newcastle, i'd bet on Newcastle.

You know the score mate...  

Dont forget wee Berwick was at war with Russia for 100 years...dont mess with the boys from up here.