Does Pernell Whittaker beat Duran ??

Not saying Pernell whittaker should be higher at lightweight.......But he was the kind of lightweight that would give Duran nightmares.........Often thought Duran was a slightly better Hatton.....A 70s chavez.....Probably slightly cuter.....

I think Whittaker is the kind of fighter that can make anyone look stupid............Feel that If Benitez and leonard can outbox Duran......Whittaker would be able to.................He dazzled Julio at 147........

With Mayweather and Jones for me the standout of the modern era........Dejesus did give Duran problems it has to be said.............

I have Duran and Whittaker top in my 11-15 list............

Whittaker for me...........He was special..

I think in head to head terms Whitaker has a bit of that Roy Jones thing going for him, insofar as that little touch of unorthodoxy and almost supernatural athleticism he had means that he has a round or two head start on a lot of other greats in a hypothetical match up.

With that in mind, if they boxed just once then I'd probably lean cautiously towards Pernell. Even over fifteen rounds, I'm not sure that Duran would have quite enough time to figure out the puzzle first time of asking. De Jesus' counters caught him rushing in all night long for the first fight and much of that knife-edge second one, before Duran eventually adapted and absolutely dominated him in their third fight. Maybe over three against Pernell, it might be the same; Duran gets befuddled and beaten fair and square first time out, the second one is a pick 'em and the third may well have gone to Duran without any controversy, although I can't imagine him ever stopping Pea at 135. Whitaker's ability to evade shots at his best weight was just phenomenal, and his chin stood up to Trinidad's bombs at Welter, too.

Just can't ignore how frustrated Duran got against someone like Vilomar Fernandez, or how De Jesus and Leonard showed that he could be outslicked from time to time (I won't count Benitez here, as anything above Welter isn't really relative to a Duran-Pea fight).

Whitaker just coped with all kinds of pressure at Lightweight, be it subtle and steady (Ramirez, Haugen etc) or totally relentless (Paez, Nelson etc). None of them are in Duran's class of course, but Whitaker stood them all on their heads to such a degree that I can imagine him being able to raise his game and just about pull off enough jabs, counters and some of those sneaky, disguised left hand leads to win a decision over Roberto, albeit in a very, very hard fight.

Over a trilogy, I wouldn't like to say.

Duran didn't like fighters that didn't engage. I think Sweet Pea would frustrate the hell out of Duran. It's not a great stylistic match for Duran and I think he has problems pinning Whitaker down. If Duran could do the unimaginable and corner Sweet Pea making the fight a close quarters affair he would win but that's a big if.

Sweet Pea would have been well capable of following Leonard's blueprint from the 2nd fight.

As an aside I read a recent Haglar interview and he is still saying Leonard fought like a little girl with pitter patter punches.

88Chris05 wrote:I think in head to head terms Whitaker has a bit of that Roy Jones thing going for him, insofar as that little touch of unorthodoxy and almost supernatural athleticism he had means that he has a round or two head start on a lot of other greats in a hypothetical match up.

With that in mind, if they boxed just once then I'd probably lean cautiously towards Pernell. Even over fifteen rounds, I'm not sure that Duran would have quite enough time to figure out the puzzle first time of asking. De Jesus' counters caught him rushing in all night long for the first fight and much of that knife-edge second one, before Duran eventually adapted and absolutely dominated him in their third fight. Maybe over three against Pernell, it might be the same; Duran gets befuddled and beaten fair and square first time out, the second one is a pick 'em and the third may well have gone to Duran without any controversy, although I can't imagine him ever stopping Pea at 135. Whitaker's ability to evade shots at his best weight was just phenomenal, and his chin stood up to Trinidad's bombs at Welter, too.

Just can't ignore how frustrated Duran got against someone like Vilomar Fernandez, or how De Jesus and Leonard showed that he could be outslicked from time to time (I won't count Benitez here, as anything above Welter isn't really relative to a Duran-Pea fight).

Whitaker just coped with all kinds of pressure at Lightweight, be it subtle and steady (Ramirez, Haugen etc) or totally relentless (Paez, Nelson etc). None of them are in Duran's class of course, but Whitaker stood them all on their heads to such a degree that I can imagine him being able to raise his game and just about pull off enough jabs, counters and some of those sneaky, disguised left hand leads to win a decision over Roberto, albeit in a very, very hard fight.

Over a trilogy, I wouldn't like to say.

Would DeJesus have won that first fight, though, if it had been 15 rounds rather than 10?

This is about as difficult a fantasy match to call as it gets - it might come down to intangibles such as where the fight takes place and which way the wind is blowing. At lightweight I'd maybe edge toward Duran; at welterweight I'd go Whitaker.

It's not that Pea didn't engage. He generally had an exceptional engine and often outworked his opponents, and even outfought guys like Chavez and Paez on the inside. It's just that, like Ward is now, he was very good at making sure he was engaging on his terms.

Duran wouldn't be running Whitaker out of town, even if he won. Whitaker more or less always stayed centre-ring and either let the openings to counter come to him, or if he felt like forcing the issue he's just tattoo his opponent with the jab. Even fighting as a Welter against De la Hoya and Trinidad, I find it amazing that in both fights he barely even so much as brushed against the ropes at any stage (compare that to how many times Mayweather retreated to them against Oscar, for example, not a knock on Floyd by the way, Truss!).

So I don't think Whitaker would be using the Leonard fight plan of just trying to humiliate Duran and keep him chasing shadows. I think at medium range Whitaker obviously had the better jab and defence, so the key for Duran would probably be the inside exchanges, of which I think there'd be quite a lot.

Duran was one of the most immaculate inside fighters ever caught on film in his prime. Higher weight, fair enough, but the Palomino fight is an awesome example of this. Whitaker's in-close fighting is badly underrated, but I'm not sure he could shove Duran around and totally negate a lot of his inside work like he did to Chavez. Duran was just that bit better in all key areas than Julio, really.

I'd expect those kind of exchanges to be keenly fought, but with an edge to Duran. But his problem would be getting in that close often enough without being caught by Pernell's jab and quick counters. If he can't get in close then I just don't think he can land enough telling shots on Pea to impress the judges.

Strongback wrote:As an aside I read a recent Haglar interview and he is still saying Leonard fought like a little girl with pitter patter punches.

Aye, well mardy ol' Marvin would know a thing or two about that, seeing as that's exactly what he did towards the end against Vito......

Whittaker on points without ever really hurting Duran or gaining his respect. At welterweight, Duran's got more of a chance though.

Wa.....wa........wa..........wait!

You have Duran in your top 15   

His top 15 lightweights... Called Roberto   

I agree that sweet p is a tough match up for duran. However, I'm not sure the chavez that fought Whitaker (that we often use as our barometer for this fantasy match up) had quite duran's ferocity. Pickem for me. With a gun to my head, a very slight leaning to Whitaker.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Wa.....wa........wa..........wait!

You have Duran in your top 15   

Mate I rate him highly....I always said however no fighter who still has It should be humiliated and make a top 10.........

11-15 is okay........and he is higher than sweet pea........

Just think sweet is all wrong for him..........Slick boxers and Duran didn't mix......

Duran does better against Chavez, Manny types both in or around my top 20...........Taylor gives Duran trouble too........

The strange thing about this matchup , they both have styles much were made to beat one another. Difficult to call but if have to The elusive, fast hands of Duran at 135 would hunt downstairs to take it on points. Whitaker wouldn't be able to predict where Duran was coming from. Pernell would fade a little over the championship rounds.

144 -141 Hands of Stone

Cheers Rodders

Your opinion is welcome Rod but I do find it strange you think Whittaker was made for him....

I think he's all wrong.

But who knows

I don't know either man so couldn't possibly say. Serious accusations, though.

Rodney wrote:The strange thing about this matchup , they both have styles much were made to beat one another. Difficult to call but if have to The elusive, fast hands of Duran at 135 would hunt downstairs to take it on points. Whitaker wouldn't be able to predict where Duran was coming from. Pernell would fade a little over the championship rounds.

144 -141 Hands of Stone

Cheers Rodders

Your wrong.The score woukd 144- 140

Rounds 1, 3, 5, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15 to Duran and rounds 2, 4, 6, 7, 10, 13 to Pernell.
Pernell gets dropped briefly in the 9th.

Difficult question, duran was bigger and stronger, but PW style wise matches up well, 50/50 fight - at 135 was very quick and could corner fighters better i might give him slight edge..

monzon wrote:I don't know either man so couldn't possibly say. Serious accusations, though.

Haven't laughed so much in ages !! 

Not sure size would make a big difference in this one......Whittaker was so difficult to nail........

Tricky fight and two of my favourite fighters.

Pernell at his best was just too slippery and I can't see Duran catching him.

Would expect the first few rounds to be fairly close before Sweetpea starts taking the mick, upsetting Duran and taking his mind out of the fight.

Points for me, probably closer than they should have been as was generally the case for Sweetpea.

Would have loved to have seen these two match up though as it would be an intriging fight.