End of an era?

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 5:25 pm

We have lost Tendulka, Kallis, Ponting, Hayden, KP, Lara {50+ ave or near) to mention but a few and soon to leave the likes of Sangakkara, Amla, Jayawardene, Smith, Khan.

How many of the up and coming players do you think can achieve such batting figures over a long period? Pujara, Kohli as possibles but any others?

Do you think these greats have done so well due to a weak bowling era or the introduction of T20, or the brand of cricket Australia started. Or just a freak coincidence?

I just don't see it happening again bar the odd one or two.

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Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 5:37 pm

When I read the post I thought there would be a few names that should easily come to mind. But upon reflection, I can't think of too many actually. Kohli and Pujara from India, AB and Amla (they both have been around for some time now but both are under 30) from South Africa.
Kane Williamson, Joe Root, Ajinkya Rahane, Nasir Hossain, are potentials but they might just be at the next level. Quinton de Kock is someone who can step up ones he gets going.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 5:49 pm

I would love Root to be a fifty+ but can't see it. More a middling 40ish type i feel.

KW and Rahane are possibles i agree, getting better and better.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:21 pm

KP averaged 47.82 ... thats a fair bit short of 50.
Cook, Trott and Bell are both likely to finish around that mark. Root might refind his form.

If we are talking about the true 50 plus greats ...hmm
Rohit and Faf are both up there early days but the general assumption is they will be found out. Pujara has done well and has much better reputation. The internet has a huge crush on Kholi but hes yet to back it up with a big score....37 innings in he still averages in the mid 40s. Ditto Rahane albeit much earlier in his test career.
If you take the KP scale then Ross Taylor is well up there, but pushing his average to 50 is unlikely.
CJA is the nearest thing to a Kallis that springs to mind, he cant be that good though surely? Maybe if he gets to play India more often....

Lets just say it wont be Doolan. Are Aus ( a winning side!) seriously considering a guy who averages under 40 at first class level as a test 3 in SA? I guess that shows how much things have changed. For all we hear about the lack of good bowlers and how much easier it is for batsmen now it appears that better fielding, lbws actually being given and much deeper analysis of individuals weaknesses is making the sort of dominant figures weve seen in the past 2 decades die out.




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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:30 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:KP averaged 47.82 ... thats a fair bit short of 50.
Cook, Trott and Bell are both likely to finish around that mark. Root might refind his form.

If we are talking about the true 50 plus greats ...hmm
Rohit and Faf are both up there early days but the general assumption is they will be found out. Pujara has done well and has much better reputation. The internet has a huge crush on Kholi but hes yet to back it up with a big score....37 innings in he still averages in the mid 40s. Ditto Rahane albeit much earlier in his test career.
If you take the KP scale then Ross Taylor is well up there, but pushing his average to 50 is unlikely.
CJA is the nearest thing to a Kallis that springs to mind, he cant be that good though surely? Maybe if he gets to play India more often....

Lets just say it wont be Doolan. Are Aus ( a winning side!) seriously considering a guy who averages under 40 at first class level as a test 3 in SA? I guess that shows how much things have changed. For all we hear about the lack of good bowlers and how much easier it is for batsmen now it appears that better fielding, lbws actually being given and much deeper analysis of individuals weaknesses is making the sort of dominant figures weve seen in the past 2 decades die out.


 Laugh 
I take your point about KP, i was being nice to the man for a change. But you are right. Exclude him from the fifty bracket. - Sorry KP lovers kiss Although he should have been there, but as he says "I play for me".

Regards to Kohli, he started slowly in Tests but is improving. I think he has that WOW factor and will be a true great to come. Taylor getting better, but a fifty+? Still undecided.

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Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:31 pm

From India, the Gen Next batting hopes are Vijay Zol and Sanju Samson along with the likes of Baba Aparajith and Unmukt Chand. The U-19 WC might throw up a few more names to the list of potentials from different countries. Perhaps in another 2-3 years a few new stars might come up.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:31 pm

Shocked Sorry forgot Clarke. Sorry Lb.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:36 pm

msp83 wrote:From India, the Gen Next batting hopes are Vijay Zol and Sanju Samson along with the likes of Baba Aparajith and Unmukt Chand. The U-19 WC might throw up a few more names to the list of potentials from different countries. Perhaps in another 2-3 years a few new stars might come up.


Have heard of Chand quite a bit. Shall watch with interest.

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Post by msp83 on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 6:52 pm

skyeman wrote:
msp83 wrote:From India, the Gen Next batting hopes are Vijay Zol and Sanju Samson along with the likes of Baba Aparajith and Unmukt Chand. The U-19 WC might throw up a few more names to the list of potentials from different countries. Perhaps in another 2-3 years a few new stars might come up.


Have heard of Chand quite a bit. Shall watch with interest.
He was the captain when India won the U-19 WC in 2012. However, at this stage, the other names I mentioned are to be considered ahead of him, Chand has potential, but he has some serious work to do on his technique, and first really prove himself in First Class cricket.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 9:48 pm

Geoffrey Boycott, 108 Tests Ave 47.72, played for himself a lot of people said.

Kevin Pietersen, 104 Tests Ave 47.28, played for himself a lot of people said.


GB did not make our hall of fame, should KP?

Do stats tell us everything?

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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

KP is a sure fire hall of famer. 

KP allowed England to win matches in the past they'd only be playing for a draw. 

KP, much like Sehwag, was the difference between their side playing for the W or the D/L

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 9:55 pm

Gerry SA wrote:KP is a sure fire hall of famer. 

KP allowed England to win matches in the past they'd only be playing for a draw. 

KP, much like Sehwag, was the difference between their side playing for the W or the D/L

So why not GB, he produced more?

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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:03 pm

skyeman wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:KP is a sure fire hall of famer. 

KP allowed England to win matches in the past they'd only be playing for a draw. 

KP, much like Sehwag, was the difference between their side playing for the W or the D/L

So why not GB, he produced more?
Boycott was happy to play for the draw. 

Whereas KP played for the win.

A winner ranks higher than a loser(or drawer)

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:04 pm

Duckworth Lewis not used in Tests, this is Test related.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm

Boycott did not want to lose!!

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:07 pm

The former player pundits are pretty unanimous in calling KP a very good but not great player.
In the context of his time his acheivements are impressive for and England cricketer but not on a global scale.
Should we describe the best Bangladeshi batsman as a sure fire hall of famer just because he isnt a s useless as his teammates?
That said hes one of the biggest personalities in the sport, like Flintoff more famous for his best performances than his overall career. Hes also the kind of figure the IPL generation love.

He was breifly a true great of T20 but has barely played the format internationally.

Meanwhile Sangakarra is still getting scores he could only dream of without getting dropped for being a dick.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:10 pm

Gerry SA wrote:KP is a sure fire hall of famer. 

KP allowed England to win matches in the past they'd only be playing for a draw. 

KP, much like Sehwag, was the difference between their side playing for the W or the D/L

And with GB's higher average, does that not apply more to him?

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:27 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The former player pundits are pretty unanimous in calling KP a very good but not great player.
In the context of his time his acheivements are impressive for and England cricketer but not on a global scale.
Should we describe the best Bangladeshi batsman as a sure fire hall of famer just because he isnt a s useless as his teammates?
That said hes one of the biggest personalities in the sport, like Flintoff more famous for his best performances than his overall career. Hes also the kind of figure the IPL generation love.

He was breifly a true great of T20 but has barely played the format internationally.

Meanwhile Sangakarra is still getting scores he could only dream of without getting dropped for being a dick.




Sorry PSW, but every pundit/former player i have heard has called Kp one of/if not the best England batsmen ever.

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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:27 pm

skyeman wrote:Duckworth Lewis not used in Tests, this is Test related.
D/L is short for draw or lose

Not Duckworth Lewis

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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:28 pm

Boycott's average is only 0.5 better than Pietersen's. 

Hardly career defining.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:31 pm

So surely it, in these modern times it comes down to entertainment, more than stats!

We need to be entertained!

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:31 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Boycott's average is only 0.5 better than Pietersen's. 

Hardly career defining.

But better.

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Post by skyeman on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 10:46 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
skyeman wrote:Duckworth Lewis not used in Tests, this is Test related.
D/L is short for draw or lose

Not Duckworth Lewis


Sorry Gerry, my mistake in not reading properly. steam

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:54 pm

skyeman wrote:Shocked Sorry forgot Clarke.  Sorry Lb.

No worries, skye.
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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 10:29 am

skyeman wrote:Geoffrey Boycott, 108 Tests Ave 47.72, played for himself a lot of people said.

Kevin Pietersen,   104 Tests Ave  47.28, played for himself a lot of people said.


GB did not make our hall of fame, should KP?

Do stats tell us everything?

Stats tell us a lot but not everything. Nor are they the sole criteria for our Hall of Fame.

Boycott was essentially turned down for what Hoggy Bear succinctly termed ''innate selfishness''.

That aspect may or may not see Pietersen rebuffed in the future but I'm sure it will be discussed.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 10:37 am

I'm going to vote Yes, for KP. His Test record alone doesn't quite demand it, but his international record across all levels make it a no-brainer. Plus he innovated, or at least legalised the switch hit, and our HoF does love them innovators.
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Post by msp83 on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:29 pm

Can you guys return to the actual HoF thread please? Its been progressing like a Boycott innings of late!. Where is the Pietersen spirit when it is needed the most?

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