British Heavyweight All-Time Super Six

1. Joe Bugner
2. Henry Cooper
3. Gary Mason
4. Bruce Woodcock
5. Tommy Farr
6. Tyson Fury

Who wins?

You left Lennox out to make it interesting? What about Bruno?

Gary Mason probably....Unless Bugner could wear him out and extend him...

Cooper too small....Farr too easy to hit...Fury too useless..

Never heard of Woodcock so guessing he's pants !

Strongback wrote:You left Lennox out to make it interesting? What about Bruno?

Both probably likely winners, tried to make it competitive!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Gary Mason probably....Unless Bugner could wear him out and extend him...

Cooper too small....Farr too easy to hit...Fury too useless..

Never heard of Woodcock so guessing he's pants !

Doncaster's Woodcock was my Dad's favourite heavyweight growing up. Used to tell me he'd have flattened Lennox!

Bugner wins, outside of Lewis at his best could beat any other British heavyweight fairly easy in my opinion. Shame he would put a glass eye to sleep doing it though.

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Gary Mason probably....Unless Bugner could wear him out and extend him...

Cooper too small....Farr too easy to hit...Fury too useless..

Never heard of Woodcock so guessing he's pants !

Doncaster's Woodcock was my Dad's favourite heavyweight growing up. Used to tell me he'd have flattened Lennox!

I see the capacity to pick a fighter is a family trait haz  

Bugner wins this, as long as one of them insults him before the fight and Harry Gibbs refs the cooper fight.

Aye - bugner wins quite comprehensively. Puts Fury in hospital after getting wound up and everyone else get beaten by a half-hearted effort.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Gary Mason probably....Unless Bugner could wear him out and extend him...

Cooper too small....Farr too easy to hit...Fury too useless..

Never heard of Woodcock so guessing he's pants !

Doncaster's Woodcock was my Dad's favourite heavyweight growing up. Used to tell me he'd have flattened Lennox!

I see the capacity to pick a fighter is a family trait haz  

Bugner wins this, as long as one of them insults him before the fight and Harry Gibbs refs the cooper fight.

 
Tha' cheeky beggar!

I'd go with Bugner, probably. Physical advantages in terms of height and reach over all of them apart from Fury, best chin of the lot, and at least as good a pure boxer as all of them, too.

Here's my alternate supersix haz:

Our respective winner's could fight off in a diamond emeritus super duper six grand final

Henry akinwande
Herbie hide
Horace notice
Funso banjo (because I like his name)
John L Gardner
Danny Williams

Scraping the barrel but the top 3 would be a threat. Like to think  Akinwande wins... such a nice guy, always hugging his opponents.

Woodcock was I believe, a quite tidy fighter. Is hard to judge his true abilities as many of his better wins were against lighter guys. However anyone good enough to hold wins over the likes of Gilroy, Mills and Lesnevich obviously was not devoid of ability. Also split a pair with Lee Savold which suggests some talent, his win was on disqualification though and will be honest do not know the circumstances.

Whenever I have read about the era though most seem to be reasonably complimentary about Woodcock.

Rowley - Savold was battering him until he clipped low and woodcock went down as if he'd be hit by a sledgehammer. Immediate media reaction was to call him the bigger faker in prize fighting history. Not a great - Chisora level fighter.

Cheers Shah, did not know the circumstances about that, never too old to learn. As I say hard to get a gauge. Gilmour was a brilliant fighter but probably a natural middle and Lesnevich and Mills were light heavies at best.

Why not include Haye who probably beats all of them except Bugner, having him instead of Fury brings up the average ability massively.

I dont see Copper or Fury winning it.

Dont know much of anything about Woodcock.

Farr is supposed to have given Joe Louis one of his toughest fights so he must have been good. Bugner is the best of one Ive seen but boring as hell.

Id go for Farr or Bugner with Mason the dark horse and Cooper and Fury the outsiders.

Think he was leaving world champions out.. Though it may have been just to rile Dave... An equally justifiable reason

Here's an obit on Woodcock (and look who it's by!):

By BOB MEE

Wednesday 31 December 1997
Bruce Woodcock, boxer: born Doncaster 18 January 1921; British and Empire heavyweight champion 1945-50; European heavyweight champion 1946-49; married 1947 Nora Speight (one son, one daughter); died Doncaster 21 December 1997.
Bruce Woodcock was one of Britain's sporting heroes in those heady, deprived, optimistic days immediately after the Second World War. He had a snappy left jab, a big, honest heart and plenty of charisma, and was the dominant European heavyweight of his generation.
When the world heavyweight champion Joe Louis retired, the great British sporting entrepreneur of the day Jack Solomons matched Woodcock with another American, Lee Savold, for the vacant championship at White City in June 1950. It was not recognised as a title fight far beyond Britain, but none of that worried the crowd of more than 50,000.
Woodcock's workouts attracted as many as 5,000 at a time. Sadly, his world championship claim evaporated because of a vile, snaking cut which ran the length of his left eyebrow. The fight was stopped in round four.
It is a lamentable reflection of the standards of the day that Woodcock was able to box Savold at all: he was virtually blind in his left eye, the result of an earlier drubbing at the hands of the Pennsylvan- ian former miner Joe Baksi, and yet passed all medical examinations,
Woodcock learned his boxing at impromptu bouts with boyhood friends in a local copse known as "Three Cornered Wood", and eventually at an amateur club. "Boxed with man in gym," wrote the 12-year-old future champion. "He made my nose bleed." And a little later: "Boxed with same man. He broke my two front teeth. But I know I can beat him now." That's the way he always was. Getting hurt was a part of the job. Winning was what mattered.
As an 18-year-old railwayman Woodcock boxed for England in the 1939 European Championships in Dublin, and won the ABA light- heavyweight title. By 1942, he was a professional.
For two years, up to the summer night in July 1945 when he became British and Empire heavyweight champion by knocking out Jack London, Woodcock trained in a tiny, home-made gym in an old stable at the back of The Plough pub in Doncaster.
There was no running water, and the tiny ring was jammed flush against the walls, which made sparring hazardous. Yet from these antiquated conditions Woodcock launched himself into world class. The gym, which legend has it was a hiding place for Dick Turpin in the 1730s, is still in use.
Woodcock beat London, whose son Brian would fight Muhammad Ali 20 years later, in the first of the splendid outdoor promotions staged by Solomons. This one was at White Hart Lane. Woodcock won in six rounds. Ever the homespun hero, he declined all invitations to celebration parties and drove straight back to Doncaster.
He was hurried too quickly into world class and lost to Tami Mauriello in the fabled Madison Square Garden, New York, when he hurt a knee, and yet a fortnight later outpointed Freddie Mills over 12 hard rounds at the Harringay Arena.
Two months later, Woodcock knocked out Albert Renet of France in six rounds to become European champion, and then in September 1946, he stopped Lesnevich in the eighth of a non-title fight before a sellout crowd at Harringay.
The year's earnings were enough to buy Bruce and his wife Nora their first house, plus another one for his parents away from the poor "Low Drop" area of Doncaster where they had lived for so long.
In his autobiography, Two Fists and a Fortune, published shortly after his career had finished in 1951, Woodcock remembered:
Bright lights, gay nights, champagne parties and pretty women are not for me. I know better than anyone how lucky I was to have the chance to earn the money that lifted us out of the drabness and frequent despair of the surroundings down in the Low Drop. Right from a kid I had to learn the value of every penny.
Woodcock's world came crashing down when he fought Joe Baksi in 1947. He was floored with the first punch, and today the flickering tape bears terrible witness to his immense bravery. Woodcock's punishment lasted 20 minutes, described by the contemporary Weekly Sporting Review as "seven of the most wicked and vicious rounds ever endured by any fighter, any time, anywhere".
He remembered the horror only too well. "My legs, arms, head, all seemed to be leaving me. I couldn't see properly. The whole vast arena seemed to be swimming round me in a crazy whirlpool of lights. I lost all sense of balance and distance, all count of time."
His jaw was broken, he had a detached retina in his left eye, yet in the autumn of 1948, he returned with a bloodless victory over the American Lee Oma and then in December won again when Lee Savold was disqualified for hitting him low.
After a successful Empire title defence in Johannesburg against Johnny Ralph, Woodcock and Freddie Mills drew 46,000 to White City for a rematch. Thousands crammed Great Windmill Street off Piccadilly simply to see the fighters arrive for the weigh-in. Woodcock won in 14 rounds.
The cut eye ruined his chances against Savold, but while the promoter Solomons attempted to talk up a rematch, Woodcock defended his British and Empire titles against the younger, untested Jack Gardner, and retired after the 11th round. Gardner's punches had closed his one good eye.
In retirement, he remained in the Doncaster area, and for many years kept a pub. He rarely talked publicly about boxing, but acknowledged that it had enabled him to put his son through college and provide his daughter with a convent education. That probably meant more to him than any of his victories.

Cheers Haz, fascinating stuff

Level headed guy....Shame other boxers don't understand the importance of saving for a rainy day..

Yeh, nice read. When men were men eh.

Ultimately, a cruiser whose best wins were over light heavies but a tough man that's for sure.

Bugner has by far the most talent from this list - went the distance with Ali twice.

md_fan wrote:Bugner has by far the most talent from this list - went the distance with Ali twice.

And Frazier.

You guys not think though that an old Cooper losing a very controversial decision may point to a prime Cooper beating Bugner. .

Its a fair point truss. The counter is that it was a young and relatively inexperienced bugner against an old cooper.

Whichever, I'd say bugner was an under achiever, and cooper probably an over achiever. People are, to some degree, taking a view of what joe could/should have been rather than what he was... Or maybe looking at his best (eg the Frazier fight... And to a lesser extent the first Ali fight that preceded it).  Rather than his average, which was at times fairly average.

He was never mr popular with the British public, a combination of his Hungarian background, beating our 'enry, and his often 'safety first' tactics... He took a panning for his performance in the Ali title fight (their 2nd), though he blamed it on the heat/humidity.

It was widely considered that bugner's heart wasn't really in the game (maybe linked to one of his earlier opponents later from injuries sustained in their fight), and he had more retirements and comebacks than ray Leonard. For all that though, for a while in the early/mid 70's he showed a level above the other guys in haz' list, in my view.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You guys not think though that an old Cooper losing a very controversial decision may point to a prime Cooper beating Bugner. .

Bugner was pretty much a wet behind the ears 21 year old kid at the time, fighting a national hero. The Bugner that fought Ali and Frazier would have beat Cooper everyday of the week. On his game technically he was a very good operator and as tough as old boots, sadly his style was bland in the extreme and i think the Cooper thing stung him badly for many years and dont ever think his motivation to win ever matched his abilities.

I seem to remember an interview with Ali not long after his second fight with Bugner in which he spoke quite well of Joe and said he found it a bit of a mystery, and a shame, how Britain never seemed to get behind him or appreciate his talents. He got a panning for his showing against Ali in Kuala Lumpur, but that was one of Ali's better showings in his second reign and even he mentioned that the humidity was a problem for him.

A bit like Eubank in some respects, I guess. Heart not always in the sport, often looking out of love and uninterested with it all, but capable of producing gutsy performances which suggested otherwise (a bit less frequently in Bugner's case, admittedly). I suppose if you were one of the few who 'believed' in Bugner, it just made it all the more frustrating, knowing that he had it in his locker but then failing to show it so many times.

Frazier nearly decapitated him with a monster left hook in their fight (and the fight was still in the balance at that point) and after taking a count, Bugner was under siege and taking all kinds of shots from Frazier who was pushing for the finish - and still Bugner showed enough heart to stay upright, try to take the fight back to Frazier on wobbly legs and even managed to rock him a little with a good shot of his own. Pretty amazing, really.

Before fighting Bruno he was apparently voted Britain's most unpopular sportsman. Just about everyone was willing Bruno to smash him in to smithereens, and let's keep in mind that Bugner was a bit long in the tooth by now. But he still gave it a good go and took it to Bruno early on. When the end came he got nailed with one of Bruno's rights and his legs went completely from under him, and he still refused to go down, taking a load of shots as he was bent towards the canvas which he could have otherwise avoided if he'd taken a knee. Even then, it needed the towel to come in for the fight to be stopped.

Makes you wonder how such an obviously tough, hard fighter can be so listless and indifferent to it all I suppose.

Think I was one of the few cheering for bugner against frank. Always felt sorry for the treatment he got. As Hogey says, I think the reaction to the cooper fight, which was pretty poor considering he didn't make the decision, effected him pretty badly.

Not a bad analogy with Eubank Chris, and the Frazier fight was a great effort... Frazier wasn't the type to carry anyone and like you say it was a damn close fight.

Bugner didnt do himself any favours by becoming an Aussie. I wanted Bruno to smash him.

Yeah, agree with a lot of what you and Hogey say. Doesn't seem to have had all that much luck in retirement either, from what I gather. Made a lot of money, even if a lot of it was down to bad press and him playing the panto villain, but apparently found a way to get through it all and has auctioned off a lot of his memorabilia.

May need to revisit the Bugner-Cooper fight. Seen it twice, scored it once (had Cooper winning, but there were so many close rounds I can just about understand why someone might edge towards Bugner, I guess) and promised myself that I'd never watch it again, as it really is a dreadful one.....But if I'm feeling brave one day I might give it another whirl to see if my opinion has changed!

I think the reason that Bugner took the fight with Bruno was that he owed money either to the government for unpaid taxes or maintainance to his ex-wife.He was known as Aussie Joe down under and was Aussie heavy weight champion for a while which he won when his opponent threw a punch in the first round missed and dislocated his shoulder and couldn't carry on. He looked the part but was far too cautious to be exciting.