Kell Brook v Shawn Porter

First topic message reminder :

Porters destruction of Paulie last night was certainly food for thought.

With Brook being the No.1 contender for Porters IBF strap the fight has been mooted by Matchroom in the recent past.

Can posters see this fight happening or will Kell seek another route?

88Chris05 wrote:See, the stuff about Broner above just highlights why you can never win when it comes to talking about or promoting a young fighter.

Here's the thing - Broner IS a good fighter. He's only a complete hype job if you swallowed the whole 'new Mayweather' thing and are comparing him to Floyd directly. But there seems to be a tendency to label youngsters either as the next big thing, or media creations whenever they lose. Why can't it just be that maybe he's a good, but not great, operator at world level who'll probably win some and lose some against the big guns?

If Broner isn't a "good" fighter, then what exactly does someone have to do to get that status? If he's nothing but a hype job, then what is Quigg for instance, seeing as Quigg's a year older but hasn't achieved as much yet or been in there with the same level of opposition? I'm pretty sure most would still describe Quigg as a good young fighter with considerable potential for the future, wouldn't they? So why is Broner suddenly not a good fighter - simply because he's lost?

Calling him the new Mayweather or proclaiming him the pound for pound number one in waiting was premature and going over the top, but there's no need to add to that error by being equally unreasonable in going the other direction. Broner has shown talent in some of his fights and obviously has a fair bit going for him which can still make him a success in the future.

If you want to judge him forever against the "new Mayweather" line then he's never going to be able to impress or win anyone over, but if you judge him by the standards that 99% of other fighters are judged against then he's shown enough talent and form to suggest that he can do something worthwhile with his career if he dedicates himself.

Boom, boom and boom Chris. Exactly what I would have written, but you probably wrote it better.

That's all very well Chris and Alex, but surely broner is such a tool, we can make an exception and call him a useless hype job. Truss likes him as well which makes it even more appropriate to slag him off

Do you have to be useless to be a hype job?

Ha, at the same time I still find Broner quite entertaining. Granted he's a total div, but I quite like the fact that he is a total div. Though the lustre and the "best ever" sort of stuff has lost it's way now he has been shown up against Maidana.

I didn't say Broner wasn't a good fighter. He was an almighty hype job, any way you look at it - most of it from his own volition. He's won some good fights, mixed with some good opposition, but the hype was he'd go up to welter, blow away the opposition and that would be that, we'd have our new Mayweather. Nothing of the sort happened.

Its possible to label him a hype job without saying he's utter toss you know.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

3fingers wrote:broner is a good fighter...hes not a hype job.

Massively disagree, think Broner embodies the term hype job to the tee. Steps up, all the fanfare of "the next Mayweather"struggles with Paulie and then gets absolutely ripped apart by a come forward plodder (a very good one but still - Khan dealt with him)

The next Mayweather doesn't struggle with Paulie even at 2 weights above previous.

How can you not say Broner is a good fighter...............Average fighters don't win three world titles at different weights do they !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:

3fingers wrote:broner is a good fighter...hes not a hype job.

Massively disagree, think Broner embodies the term hype job to the tee. Steps up, all the fanfare of "the next Mayweather"struggles with Paulie and then gets absolutely ripped apart by a come forward plodder (a very good one but still - Khan dealt with him)

The next Mayweather doesn't struggle with Paulie even at 2 weights above previous.

How can you not say Broner is a good fighter...............Average fighters don't win three world titles at different weights do they !!

Unless they're called Duke McKenzie you mean?

He was a good fighter too...........Nothing great but that's not what we are talking about..

Very few fighters achieve three titles at different weights.....Generally because you have to be pretty good to do it..

I think Paulie stinks.......But he's a good fighter... too

Ah, changing your view of Duke to suit your argument...a new and wholly refreshing approach for you there, TRUSSY.

Anyway, Kell has to take this fight as his options are seriously limited otherwise. Go to America, take a pay cut if needs be, do the business and make a name for yourself or don't, but whatever you do, take the damn fight lad!

Lesser fighters have faced better opposition and won. Brook's no slouch and whilst the jury is definitely out as to his world class credentials, he isn't going to get a better opportunity to prove them any time soon.

When your top 3 victories are Malignaggi, Demarco and Rees I think it's safe to say he had a easily run to become a 3 weight world champion

Broner is a good fighter, but he was also a hype job as many, not just golden boy employees thought he'd be the next mayweather which any hardcore fan could see he just wasn't in the same league

That said I do believe the term hype job is thrown about too much

Why have I changed my tune on Mckenzie never said he was ordinary..

I'll reiterate If it's that easy to become a three weight world champ.........Why have the Brits only had two in the last 130 years..

Talking about a good fighter not a great one..

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:When your top 3 victories are Malignaggi, Demarco and Rees I think it's safe to say he had a easily run to become a 3 weight world champion

Broner is a good fighter, but he was also a hype job as many, not just golden boy employees thought he'd be the next mayweather which any hardcore fan could see he just wasn't in the same league

That said I do believe the term hype job is thrown about too much

Perhaps promoters and the media should stop hyping fighters too much and too soon then. Try "generating warranted interest" instead.

Of course, "he's a decent prospect but it's far early to get carried away" isn't going to put bums on seats is it?

Very few fighters live up to the hype...........

Problem for Broner is he was so conceited and so obviously a Maywether-rip off that as soon as he failed people were going to kick him about on sites like this....

He isn't great never will be.........But ordinary he isn't............Demolished Rees completely and people are talking about Crolla being WORLD level who sneaked past him after..

Will say I thought Crolla has been very impressive lately..........I wrote him off and was wrong to do so....

Though he should have beaten Derry.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Very few fighters live up to the hype...........

Problem for Broner is he was so conceited and so obviously a Maywether-rip off that as soon as he failed people were going to kick him about on sites like this....

He isn't great never will be.........But ordinary he isn't............Demolished Rees completely and people are talking about Crolla being WORLD level who sneaked past him after..

Will say I thought Crolla has been very impressive lately..........I wrote him off and was wrong to do so....

Though he should have beaten Derry.

The key to Derry's success is that he's so unlikeable, people completely ignore any sort of game plan for wanting to smash his face in. I think he got the idea from Floyd!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see anything in Derry at all but he keeps hanging around like a bad smell...

Not a relation of yours is he ??

Thought he was one of yours, what with the desire for people to want to punch your face in.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I didn't say Broner wasn't a good fighter. He was an almighty hype job, any way you look at it - most of it from his own volition. He's won some good fights, mixed with some good opposition, but the hype was he'd go up to welter, blow away the opposition and that would be that, we'd have our new Mayweather. Nothing of the sort happened.

Its possible to label him a hype job without saying he's utter toss you know.

Good to see you posting again first off, Jabby. Where you been hiding mate?

Looking back at how I worded my post on Broner, it does read as if I was directly trying to take what you wrote beforehand apart - which I wasn't. Apologies as I should have made it a bit clearer.

I was more referring to the general feeling and backlash towards Broner as a fighter that I've seen in the last few months (only as a fighter, mind you, as he's a cretin of titanic proportions as a bloke!). Seeing as so many were rolling out the lines about him being the next Floyd, then I guess it's fair enough that he's been deemed a failure thus far going on that criterion. But now we know that's not the case, I just worry that he's always going to be judged against that standard from now on. I've seen some labelling him a bum or a fraud etc, which is a bit unreasonable for me.

88Chris05 wrote:Good to see you posting again first off, Jabby. Where you been hiding mate?

Looking back at how I worded my post on Broner, it does read as if I was directly trying to take what you wrote beforehand apart - which I wasn't. Apologies as I should have made it a bit clearer.

I was more referring to the general feeling and backlash towards Broner as a fighter that I've seen in the last few months (only as a fighter, mind you, as he's a cretin of titanic proportions as a bloke!). Seeing as so many were rolling out the lines about him being the next Floyd, then I guess it's fair enough that he's been deemed a failure thus far going on that criterion. But now we know that's not the case, I just worry that he's always going to be judged against that standard from now on. I've seen some labelling him a bum or a fraud etc, which is a bit unreasonable for me.

Oh I stop by here and there, I just haven't had as much time as I'd like to have had to adequately get my head into replying properly. Things are looking up health wise so I should be posting more frequently.

I agree with your general view of Broner, the lad is a good fighter, as I've said - the three weight thing flatters him slightly, given that although it is an impressive feat, it was more the fanfare that he created that has caused this backlash. If he didn't have his huge entourage, if he didn't constantly play up to the cameras with his WWE persona then people would have looked more at his achievements over his recent performances and give him a wide berth in analysis, saying he is far beyond his natural weight and that to continue his dominance would have been nothing short of phenomenal. Whats happened though, is that he's said some stupid things, acted the clown and allowed the PR machine to hype him as the next Mayweather. Nobody in our generation has even come close to achieving what he has in terms of money, career, style etc. The fact that someone could got the public all excited. I saw him beat Rees. I wasn't overly impressed, but the way he sat next to him after the fight, congratulated him - he was humble. Then there was the Paulie debacle. Exceptional fighters don't struggle with Paulie. Hatton (who was a huge over achiever himself) dealt with him pretty handily. Khan (who has a glass chin but exceptional skills and speed) dealt with him quite easily. Both were decisions so it wasn't as if power was required as Paulie has a great chin. He needed to outwork him and he barely did that.

I think a fair analysis of Broner is that he was an exceptional lightweight/SFW who had the size and talent to pick apart opponents, but when he's gone up, he's lost the ability to use his size effectively and therefore has to rely on skills that pale in comparison to those of Mayweather and therefore have made him look average, especially when against punch machines like Maidana.

I respect his career, its impossible not to, but the fact he's acted the way he has resulted in him in my eyes being seen as a hype job because he couldn't carry out what he said he would and become the next Mayweather.

Broner tried to grow up too fast.  He had no business yet at WW, none at all, and got what was coming to him.  I think we all enjoyed that.  But there are still great fights out there for him, especailly at 140 where I really couldn't say who would win if he fought Lucas or Garcia.  He's an excellent fighter, comfortably world class and probably a future top ten p4p.

I agree KingMonkey - think a fight with Danny Garcia would be a superb thing to see

Broner tried fighting guys his own size and found the smoke being blown up his backside wasnt all that.

So he's a natural welterweight that fought at 130.......right

There was nothing natural about him fighting at 130.

You know how hard it would be for a guy who's natural at 147 to get down to 130 ??

I know you don't like him but come on..

Shame Hearns never banged out Azumah Nelson at 130........  

You know Broner cant make 130 right? Shame he had to fight people his own size instead of coming in heavy to beat up on the little guys.

According to you Mayweather has never beaten anybody........Broner fights midgets.........The Klits are useless stiffs.......

All black and white stuff...................and life isn't black and white......

I appreciate you don't like certain fighters (99% of them reading your stuff !!) But try to have a bit of objectivity sometimes....

You'll find people will take you more seriously then..

Great counter argument. Im now totally convinced Broner is a natural at 130lbs.

Fair enough.......Let's just agree to disagree.......

Broner for me is a very good fighter........Not an elite one but one who has bit off more than he can chew at a weight too far.

I think what will be most interesting about Broner is HOW he handles the first fight back against decent opposition and whether he has learned anything from being handed his rear end by Maidana.

I can see him doing well for a couple of fights and then everything unravelling again if he continues the way he was. One thing's for sure: he is never going to be humble!