Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June

by **George Carlin** Sun 15 Jun 2014, 9:53 am

First topic message reminder :

Argentina v Scotland
20 June 2014, KO: 16:10 ART (20:10 BST)
Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes, Córdoba

Live on Sky Sports 3

Referee: John Lacey (Ire)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (Fra), Lourens van der Merwe (SA)
TMO: Deon van Blommenstein (SA)

A. Teams:

I. Argentina
Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Pope_f10

Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Pope_f10

1- Bruno Postiglioni (La Plata)
2- Julián Montoya (Newman)
3- Matías Díaz (Highlanders)
4- Manuel Carizza (Stormers)
5- Matías Alemanno (Tablada)
6- Rodrigo Báez (Liceo)
7- Javier Ortega Desio (Parana)
8- Tomás De la Vega (CUBA)

9- Tomás Cubelli (capitán) (Belgrano)
10- Nicolás Sánchez (Bordeaux Begles)
11- Manuel Montero (Pucurá)
12- Santiago González Iglesias (Alumni)
13- Matías Orlando (Huirapuca)
14- Santiago Cordero (Regatas)
15- Lucas González Amorosino (Oyonnax)

16- Santiago Iglesias Valdez (Uni Tucumán)
17- Lucas Noguera Paz (Lince RC)
18- Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro (NG Dragons)
19- Tomás Lavanini (La Plata)
20- Antonio Ahualli de Chazal (Uni Tucumán)
21- Martín Landajo (C.A.S.I.)
22- Matías Moroni (CUBA)
23- Joaquín Tuculet (Bordeaux Begles)

II. Scotland
Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Im_jol10

Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Im_jol10

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 22 caps, 5 tries, 1 penalty, 28 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 11 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Nick De Luca (Biarritz) 41 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 13 caps, 1 try, 3 conversions, 1 penalty, 1 drop-goal, 17 points
9 Grayson Hart (Edinburgh Rugby) 1 cap

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 34 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 75 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish) 30 caps, 1 try, 5 points
4 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
5 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) 6 caps, 1 try, 5 points CAPTAIN
6 Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish) 2 caps
8 Kieran Low (London Irish) 3 caps

16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps
20 Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 10 caps, 1 try, 5 points
22 Tom Heathcote (Edinburgh Rugby) 3 caps
23 Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby) 1 cap

B. Numbers - head to head:

13 Played 13
9 Won 4
4 Lost 9
247 Points 218

C. Results

25 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
13 – 12 to Argentina
2011 Rugby World Cup

19 June 2010
Estadio José María Minella, Mar del Plata
9 – 13 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina

12 June 2010
Estadio José Fierro, Tucumán
16 – 24 to Scotland
2010 Scottish tour of Argentina

28 November 2009
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 9 to Argentina

2009 Autumn International
14 June 2008
Vélez Sársfield, Buenos Aires
14 – 26 to Scotland

2008 Scottish tour of Argentina
7 June 2008
Gigante de Arroyito, Rosario
21 – 15 to Argentina

7 October 2007
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
19 – 13 to Argentina
2007 Rugby World Cup

12 November 2005
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
19 – 23 to Argentina
2005 Autumn International

18 November 2001
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
16 – 25 to Argentina

21 August 1999
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
22 – 31 to Argentina

11 June 1994
Estadio Ricardo Etcheverry, Buenos Aires
19 – 17 to Argentina

4 June 1994
Estadio Ricardo Etcheverry, Buenos Aires
16 – 15 to Argentina

10 November 1990
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
49 – 3 to Scotland

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jun 2014, 2:19 pm

Just wanted to check you were reading my carefully thought through posts in detail......

by R!skysports Mon 16 Jun 2014, 2:22 pm

BTW -are they doing 2 separate tour parties for these games?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jun 2014, 2:39 pm

Yes, the "Shambles A Squad" and the "Shambles B Squad".

I wonder if Kevin Bryce will get more gametime for Scotland at flanker against Argentina or South Africa. Perhaps he may like a crack at Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, or Willem Alberts. Alternatively we could use him as an impact sub when South Africa bring on Schalk Burger......

by R!skysports Mon 16 Jun 2014, 2:50 pm

I see that GC has changed the tv option now -

Now it makes me look a fool....

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:18 pm

Riskysports wrote:I see that GC has changed the tv option now -

Now it makes me look a fool....

Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Fool10

by Dorothy_Mantooth Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:34 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Yes, the "Shambles A Squad" and the "Shambles B Squad".

I wonder if Kevin Bryce will get more gametime for Scotland at flanker against Argentina or South Africa. Perhaps he may like a crack at Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, or Willem Alberts. Alternatively we could use him as an impact sub when South Africa bring on Schalk Burger......

Its maybe a new Scottish "thing" on Summer tours. Like the Baa baas pick an non international in their team. Scotland pick a 3rd or 4th choice Hooker from the club game and then play him in the back row, as they did it with Fraser Brown last year as well.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:37 pm

The SRU lied to me - they said they would be putting up news of the updated squad this morning!

by R!skysports Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The SRU lied to me - they said they would be putting up news of the updated squad this morning!

Blame GC

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:20 pm

Riskysports wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:The SRU lied to me - they said they would be putting up news of the updated squad this morning!

Blame GC

I entirely agree. GC has been an SRU plant on 606v2 all along, and is in fact responsible for appointing Scott Johnson, the current touring schedule, the pre-match entertainment at Murrayfield (rumour has it he manages the Red Hot Chilli Pipers in his spare time) and has pulled the strings to ensure Scotland never deploy a specialist openside flanker.

Blame GC.

by IanBru Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:23 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The SRU lied to me - they said they would be putting up news of the updated squad this morning!

They could have meant Monday morning in Argentina - say, 5 or 6pm, I'd guess.

Now obviously I'm a fool for expecting consistency in SRU policy, but that is what they did when announcing the last two matchday squads.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:25 pm

I very much doubt the SRU has figured out time zones.

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:30 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:The SRU lied to me - they said they would be putting up news of the updated squad this morning!

Blame GC

I entirely agree. GC has been an SRU plant on 606v2 all along, and is in fact responsible for appointing Scott Johnson, the current touring schedule, the pre-match entertainment at Murrayfield (rumour has it he manages the Red Hot Chilli Pipers in his spare time) and has pulled the strings to ensure Scotland never deploy a specialist openside flanker.

Blame GC.

Scotland Summer Tour, Game 3: Argentina v Scotland, 21 June - Page 2 Evil10

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Jun 2014, 4:42 pm

I knew it. A devious plot is afoot to replace the All Blacks with Ayr at the pinnacle of world rugby.

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:12 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I knew it. A devious plot is afoot to replace the All Blacks with Ayr at the pinnacle of world rugby.

We're already making progress.

Finn "Ferret-Like Evil Henchman 1" Russell, Mark "Evil Deity Henchman 2" Bennett and Gordy "Fat Evil Henchman 3" Reid have already infiltrated the international rugby world. Look out for junior evil henchmen Dastardly D’arcy Rae, Mental Murray McConnell and Reprehensible Robbie Fergusson coming to a Pro 12 pitch near you soon.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:18 pm

You see D'arcy Rae's try for the under 20s against Italy? It's a beast!

by GLove39 Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:50 pm

Nick De Luca has been called up to the Scotland squad for the remainder of the tour.
Have to say given all the injuries that makes sense. Plus his defence will be sorely needed for the next 2 games.

by IanBru Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:51 pm

Christ. It gets worse.

http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/06/16/de-luca-added-scotland-squad

I'm off for a cry, and then the world's strongest gin and tonic.

by IanBru Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:54 pm

Quick on the draw, Graham!

by **BigGee** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 5:59 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:You see D'arcy Rae's try for the under 20s against Italy? It's a beast!

Tell you what, you can see why Edinburgh have signed the 17 year old James Ritchie as well. He is a big lad for his age and really looks a prospect, hopefully he is going to be their Johnny Gray!

Hats off to the U20's, it looked like they were on a hiding to nothing this year with the group they were in and they had to dig really deep to beat Italy when their place in next years competition was at stake. They lost to Italy quite heavily in this years 6 nations as well.

The slightly worrying thing is that you would assume that was the strongest side the U20's could put out and neither Farndale or Dean were in it, Farndale not even on the bench. I hope Edinburgh have picked the right players!

by **BigGee** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 6:17 pm

GLove39 wrote:Nick De Luca has been called up to the Scotland squad for the remainder of the tour.
Have to say given all the injuries that makes sense. Plus his defence will be sorely needed for the next 2 games.

I suppose when you think about it there probably is not anyone else uninjured who is going to be available. Bennett is clearly being held back for the sevens and probably needs a break before ploughing into that. Do we know if Dunbar has travelled yet, if he has then I imagine that NDL will only be there as cover, but we are really only one injury away from a crisis and they have been dropping like flies so far.

Again, no long term option here, particularly playing in the French second division like Stroks next year, I guess it is just the nature of this tour!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 16 Jun 2014, 6:18 pm

IanBru wrote:Christ. It gets worse.

http://scottishrugby.org/news/14/06/16/de-luca-added-scotland-squad

I'm off for a cry, and then the world's strongest gin and tonic.

FFS

by **RDW** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 6:38 pm

If he's fit I'd much rather Dr Luca at 13 than Hogg or Fife, especially if Horne is at 12.

Given everything else that's going on in this tour it's not the end of the world!

by GLove39 Mon 16 Jun 2014, 6:41 pm

IanBru wrote:Quick on the draw, Graham!

by **BigGee** Mon 16 Jun 2014, 6:53 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:If he's fit I'd much rather Dr Luca at 13 than Hogg or Fife, especially if Horne is at 12.

Given everything else that's going on in this tour it's not the end of the world!

He can hardly be match fit though, he has hardly played this side of xmas. As I said before, I imagine he is just going to be there for cover, but the way things have been going you never know!

by alive555 Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:21 pm

a pretty pathetic bunch u are.

really lightweight !

rdw u wake up , this is not a self serving forum Crying or Very sad

god help my daughter

by alive555 Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:40 am

is this website for your mutual benefit ?

of so im out ?

by IanBru Tue 17 Jun 2014, 1:00 am

Say what?

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 7:04 am

Yeah I'm pretty sure alive had a few sherbets last night....

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 17 Jun 2014, 7:53 am

by EWT Spoons Tue 17 Jun 2014, 7:58 am

I am offically loving Alive555's chat, I don't understand it, but it's brilliant none the less

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 8:11 am

Anyway....

Turns out Jonathan Humphries and Duncan Hodge were in charge of the group left at home, so we can't really blame Humphries for the limp forwards performances!

by **BigGee** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 8:56 am

No official confirmation yet, but I am reading from the interviews and press releases that Dunbar has not travelled. I imagine that NDL will play then, probably in both games baring further injuries. At least he will be fresh!

by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 17 Jun 2014, 9:21 am

BigGee wrote:No official confirmation yet, but I am reading from the interviews and press releases that Dunbar has not travelled. I imagine that NDL will play then, probably in both games baring further injuries. At least he will be fresh!

He's moving to France next season, so would that not rule him out of the South Africa game? Unless he has a clause in his contract that none of the other exiles have.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 9:22 am

Nick De Luca, the experienced 30-year-old centre, has joined the Scotland squad for the remainder of their summer tour.

De Luca, who won his most recent cap (his 41st) against Australia last November, has been added to the squad for the matches against Argentina in Cordoba on Friday and then South Africa in Port Elizabeth a week on Saturday.

Dumfries born De Luca has left Edinburgh Rugby and will be playing for Biarritz in the 2014-15 season. De Luca has faced Argentina on five occasions, winning three of the games, all on Argentine soil.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/06/16/de-luca-added-scotland-squad

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Jun 2014, 9:28 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
BigGee wrote:No official confirmation yet, but I am reading from the interviews and press releases that Dunbar has not travelled. I imagine that NDL will play then, probably in both games baring further injuries. At least he will be fresh!

He's moving to France next season, so would that not rule him out of the South Africa game? Unless he has a clause in his contract that none of the other exiles have.

I'm not convinced NDL would have had a particularly strong hand when negotiating his contract. I suspect there's no clause, but they gave a gaelic shrug when he asked whether he needed to turn up on time to pre-season....

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 9:29 am

And to be fair he's not exactly had an overly taxing season, so it's not as if he needs much of a break at the end of the summer tour.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:00 am

I've just read in the Scotsman that the squad for the South Africa game doesn't contain enough forwards for the 13 man quota for full pack and replacements!

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:07 am

Squad for SA

Props
Gordon Reid
Jon Welsh
Alasdair Dickinson

Hooker
Kevin Bryce
Ross Ford
Pat MacArthur

Lock
Grant Gilchrist
Jonny Gray
Tim Swinson

Back row
Rob Harley
David Denton
Chris Fusaro

Shocked

Looks like we're a reserve prop short - is that even allowed? Pretty sure our bench needs to have loosehead and tighthead cover.

Also looks like we're going to have a hooker covering backrow. In fact all 3 hookers will probably be in the squad - one cover prop, one covering hooker and one covering backrow!

And this is not allowing for injuries against Argentina - if John Welsh or Dave Denton gets injured we're completely screwed!

Grim.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:17 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Squad for SA

Props
Gordon Reid
Jon Welsh
Alasdair Dickinson

Hooker
Kevin Bryce
Ross Ford
Pat MacArthur

Lock
Grant Gilchrist
Jonny Gray
Tim Swinson

Back row
Rob Harley
David Denton
Chris Fusaro

Looks like we're a reserve prop short - is that even allowed? Pretty sure our bench needs to have loosehead and tighthead cover.

Also looks like we're going to have a hooker covering backrow. In fact all 3 hookers will probably be in the squad - one cover prop, one covering hooker and one covering backrow!

And this is not allowing for injuries against Argentina - if John Welsh or Dave Denton gets injured we're completely screwed!

Grim.

Given the injuries so far this tour it's almost certain that there will be more injuries against Argentina. I'm not comfortable with the idea of Fusaro against the Boks in any case. This is looking like a serious drubbing coming up. I can't even think who we might call up as replacements for that last game as they would have to be either Edinburgh or Glasgow squad players, oh dear.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:18 am

Doesn't' get much better looking at the backs for SA (assuming Dunbar is not there)

Scrum half
Henry Pyrgos
Grayson Hart

Stand off
Duncan Weir
Tom Heathcote

Centre
Peter Horne
Nick De Luca

Back 3
Stuart Hogg
Sean Maitland
Peter Murchie
Tommy Seymour
Dougie Fife

Plenty feckin wingers!

23 players in total, so we will literally have to have every player in the squad. Say something like:

Dickinson
Ford
Welsh
Swinson
Gray
Harley
Fusaro
Denton

Hart
Weir
Seymour
Horne
De Luca
Maitland
Hogg

Subs - Reid, McArthur, Bryce, Gilchrist, Pyrgos, Heathcoat, Fife, Murchie

Unless they've added someone else to the squad, we literally cannot get any injures to the above mentioned people or we won't have enough subs.

I wonder if this will affect the Argentina selection - as in try to leave as many of the above mentioned players out of it!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:58 am

Uncle Dougie - your time is now!!

Can we not just make it a non-cap Scottish rugby representative selection, and call-up our project players??

by nickj Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:20 am

That's bl**dy ridiculous. Can they not flaming count? I would be mighty impressed if I was the Boks. We deserve to lose the right to play the big boys if we don't treat fixtures against them with respect. International rugby is not a charity and if we're not careful we'll be as popular as Tonga as friendly opponents, let alone a tour venue.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:23 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Uncle Dougie - your time is now!!

Can we not just make it a non-cap Scottish rugby representative selection, and call-up our project players??

Perhaps Lineen can find a few SQ Saffers at short notice who could play. It's a bit like our old club 2nds where the captain would try to cobble together a team from whoever he could find from youth teams and veterans ,ended up with an age range of over 30 years some weekends.

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:26 am

Are we seriously going to end up with Alan Dell and Simon Berghan being drafted into the squad, even though they have barely been in Edinburgh long enough to take a tram ride?

They are literally the only other SQ props available I can think of.

As for back row, can't think of anyone else who is fit and not tied up elsewhere with non-Scottish clubs or 7s duty.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:29 am

nickj wrote:That's bl**dy ridiculous. Can they not flaming count? I would be mighty impressed if I was the Boks. We deserve to lose the right to play the big boys if we don't treat fixtures against them with respect. International rugby is not a charity and if we're not careful we'll be as popular as Tonga as friendly opponents, let alone a tour venue.

We have slipped down the pecking order so much, that we need to take these kind of games on in return for the likes of South Africa to play us in the AIs.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:31 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Are we seriously going to end up with Alan Dell and Simon Berghan being drafted into the squad, even though they have barely been in Edinburgh long enough to take a tram ride?

They are literally the only other SQ props available I can think of.

As for back row, can't think of anyone else who is fit and not tied up elsewhere with non-Scottish clubs or 7s duty.

Tyronne Holmes. He is about the only fit Scottish qualified player in the FT Glasgow squad who didn't get selected to represent Scotland over these two tours and the 7s.

by MacKnocked-on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:35 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
nickj wrote:That's bl**dy ridiculous. Can they not flaming count? I would be mighty impressed if I was the Boks. We deserve to lose the right to play the big boys if we don't treat fixtures against them with respect. International rugby is not a charity and if we're not careful we'll be as popular as Tonga as friendly opponents, let alone a tour venue.

We have slipped down the pecking order so much, that we need to take these kind of games on in return for the likes of South Africa to play us in the AIs.

I could see some of the players from the first leg of the tour being called out again to join the remaining fit players in South Africa, can't see any other solution. If we lose another lock forward then it will probably be one of the Toolis brothers who goes out to join the squad. I've no idea about back row, Roddy Grant perhaps?

by funnyExiledScot Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:36 am

There's also Stuart McInally. I'd certainly rather see him in the backrow than Kevin Bryce!

by **RDW** Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:37 am

Roddy Grant is with the 7s.

You're right about the Toolis brothers, but they would get absolutely eaten alive by SA.

Also, they will be in the same position as Bob Harley was last year - the season ended, he had 3 weeks holiday then had just started back at pre-season and was called up. Far from ideal.

by nickj Tue 17 Jun 2014, 11:40 am

How about Tyrone Holmes? I thought he was qualified already? I think Cowan and Low have also gone on as back row cover for the Argentina game. I wonder whether we will ask the Exiles for special dispensation? Will Rennie be covered by the International Window rules too? As a last resort, could a couple of the Under 20's be flown over?

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