What if?

What if premium tv stations pulled out of boxing. I've often wondered if hbo pulling in 1 million viewers for non-ppv boxing is cost effective. We all bemoan boxing leaving terristerial tv. What's if showtime, hbo and sky dropped boxing? 

2 questions really, what would happen if premium stations dropped boxing? And does anyone think it's likely that hbo, showtime or sky would be likely too?

I've a feeling that the al haymon, goldenboy, top rank, scheffer issues stateside could see hbo giving up, showtime will commit while they have floyd, but that gig will be over in a couple of years. What do you think any cause for concern?

Your dissertation omits the fact that a million views is still a lot on pay channels. Anyway, I think, as things stand, if HBO and Show cancelled boxing, it would be a near fatal blow for the sport in the States. The promoters have done a fantastic job of keeping boxings core fanbase to roughly the size of a home schooling classroom, and on public television the ratings boxing gets would be gawdawful. Another thing is, who would buy boxing broadcasting rights? Unlike football, where you pay for BPL, or basketball, where you pay for NBA, boxing is such a wild west where at best you could pay for the rights to one promotion, and hope for the best.

I agree raf. Boxing has become such a neche sport in the states that if it was dropped from showtime or hbo, it would be crushed. Is 1 million views good viewing? I'm never sure on how it's stacks up, hbo have 27 million subscriptions stateside, is 1 million tuning in on a Saturday night primetime slot a good return. The uk is roughly double the size in population, 2 million views would see a show cancelled on a Saturday night there.
I understand I'm comparing apples with pineapples.

Wow, there is a lot wrong with what I've just said. Hbo is in 27 million homes, there is not 50 million plus homes in the uk. 1 million homes is probably a good return.

if Saturday boxing averaged one million on HBO, it would be the fifth most watched show on the channel.

To put into context, TNA (pro wrestlings 2nd biggest promotion after WWE) gets around 1.1m watchers each week on Spike TV. Its their highest rated show.

Its just been dropped by the network due to cost.

If you think about boxing, it would be just as, if not more, expensive (depending on who is fighting).

I therefore summize that it wouldn't be viewed as very good vs cost of production.

Boxing, whilst it has many ills, is pretty resilient. It has survived the colour line, the mob, the advent of PPV, which shut out the terrestrial networks, all of which to varying degrees have been alleged to represent the death knell for the sport. If HBO and Showtime would pull out of the sport what would probably happen is terrestrial TV would pick up the sport, fighters would earn less, but be forced to either fight more or take tougher fights. This would probably boost the popularity of the sport and once it was getting the viewing figures and live attendances, someone would fill the breach left by HBO and Showtime and they could ruin things again!

Rowley wrote:Boxing, whilst it has many ills, is pretty resilient. It has survived the colour line, the mob, the advent of PPV, which shut out the terrestrial networks, all of which to varying degrees have been alleged to represent the death knell for the sport. If HBO and Showtime would pull out of the sport what would probably happen is terrestrial TV would pick up the sport, fighters would earn less, but be forced to either fight more or take tougher fights. This would probably boost the popularity of the sport and once it was getting the viewing figures and live attendances, someone would fill the breach left by HBO and Showtime and they could ruin things again!

I remember reading a quote on here, probably posted by Windy, saying that boxing has had so many last nails in its coffin there can't be any wood left, I think that was said in the 50's. Boxing really does have a habit of surviving and it would get through this as well, probably come out in better shape than it is now as well actually.

I've only seen one Cloud fight lol. The Stevenson one in which he was made to look decidedly ordinary.

Got to be honest, I haven't seen the Hopkins fight but ordinary no doubt in that too.

But prior to Hopkins he had something of a reputation, largely by way of anything very much. Plenty of people on here thought that was going to be Berna

I've only seen one Cloud fight lol. The Stevenson one in which he was made to look decidedly ordinary.

Got to be honest, I haven't seen the Hopkins fight but ordinary no doubt in that too.

But prior to Hopkins he had something of a reputation, largely by way of anything very much. Plenty of people on here thought that was going to be Bernard's last fight if I recall.

These Frak phones they drive you up the wall sometimes. I'm on the wrong thread

Adam D wrote:To put into context, TNA (pro wrestlings 2nd biggest promotion after WWE) gets around 1.1m watchers each week on Spike TV. Its their highest rated show.

Its just been dropped by the network due to cost.

If you think about boxing, it would be just as, if not more, expensive (depending on who is fighting).

I therefore summize that it wouldn't be viewed as very good vs cost of production.

TNA is on every week Adam which boxing is not, so the expenditure is far less and I would imagine that revenue from sponsorship is also higher, not sure it's a fair comparison really.

Yeah, I agree Rowley, hence I said a near fatal blow. I don't however think it would get out in better shape should premium channels decide f*** this. For one, and most importantly, boxing's size of the sporting pie is at an all time low. Its legitimately competing with MMA now. While this is in part due to MMA's increased popularity, it's also because boxing has been shrinking at an exponential rate, in America at least (worth remembering that this is largely an American issue, at least in its seriousness. Sky has increased its shows, Wlad of all people draws 13 million in Germany, SuperSport has increased the amount of local shows, and Bob has discovered a gold mine in the Far Fast), has shrunk.

Agree it would be a blow Raf, but think by some means the sport would find a way through. Reality is, whilst we bemoan the state of the sport it is not dying or dead. Had it happened Manny and Floyd would have broke pretty much every record you’d care to mention. Manny shifted 50,000 tickets against Joshua bleeding Clottey and as you have said Wlad would fill an arena against Truss in Germany. What this all suggests to me is there is a demand for the sport, all that is required is for it to be managed right. If HBO or Showtime pulled out you never know it might make the likes of Arum and GBP to question how they have killed the golden goose, if that lead to one or more of them exiting stage left or decided to act like adults and work together it would not break my heart.

The fact that boxing has an ever decreasing fan base and yet still boasts the highest earning sportsman on the planet suggests there is something very very wrong with how the money is distributed. If the TV companies/promoters stopped throwing ridiculous sums of money at the likes of Chavez Jr because hes a "PPV" star whats he gonna do about it? Retire? Take the 5 Million dollars or whatever insane sum of money he is earning and use it to put on a decent card on a free to air channel.

Alternatively, him and his management go to a completely different, maybe start up channel, and say, "for $5 million, we can bring 300-500k fans willing to pay $69.95 to watch Chavez", and we're back were we started, just on a different channel.

Rowley wrote:Boxing, whilst it has many ills, is pretty resilient. It has survived the colour line, the mob, the advent of PPV, which shut out the terrestrial networks, all of which to varying degrees have been alleged to represent the death knell for the sport. If HBO and Showtime would pull out of the sport what would probably happen is terrestrial TV would pick up the sport, fighters would earn less, but be forced to either fight more or take tougher fights. This would probably boost the popularity of the sport and once it was getting the viewing figures and live attendances, someone would fill the breach left by HBO and Showtime and they could ruin things again!

I have to agree. Boxing was virtually a weekly event on terrestrial TV back in the 80's and 90's until SKY took over. It would actually be a good thing for boxing should the pay networks drop boxing, but unfortunately they won't. I've worked quite closely with SKY Sports over the years and they have 4 sports channels (soon to be 5) to fill with sport. They've even invested in Netball as they have airtime to fill. If you're the "home of sport" you show sport that will appeal to the masses as well as the sports that fall into the niche market category.

Back in the 80's and 90's I could chat about boxing to my friends because it was TV and everyone pretty much knew who was who and what was going on. These days there's no point in talking to them as it's dropped off their radar. If the SKY's of this world dropped boxing it would ultimately be good for boxing as the terrestrial TV channels could then afford to bring it back. PPV would still exist, as it did then. If you wanted to watch a big fight from the states (or wherever) you watched it at a cinema/theatre or you avoided the result and watched the recording (usually) the following day.

Benn, Eubank, Watson were huge fights and the general public sat up and took notice, these fights were taking more than column inches in the national press they took pages. Had the Froch v Groves been on terrestrial, the general public would have been buzzing during the build up, a fight at Wembley with a crowd of around 100,000 far outsold any of the big fights we had with Benn, Watson and Eubank. These guys had huge public interest but only because you could watch them on TV.

The interest in boxing has waned since it went over to SKY, even Channel 5 who's viewing figures rate really poorly (and always have) do reasonably well when they show boxing. The buzz is still simmering within the general public but it needs to be fired up again by getting the sport back to prominence within everyone's living room. My Nan loved watching Big Daddy v Giant Haystacks on a Saturday afternoon (didn't we all [people of my age], easy, easy!) but she loved watching her boxing too. If she were still alive she wouldn't have SKY and certainly wouldn't be paying extra for SKY Sports if she did.

So in answer to your question, it would be good for boxing to be dropped by the networks you mention... but sadly will never happen.