Referees vs the All Blacks

First topic message reminder :

Gregor Paul in the NZ Herald notes that the All Blacks are drawing a lot of yellow cards, which is putting them under pressure in matches.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11310240

He allows that this might simply reflect growing indiscipline in their play but he is also drawn to the theory referees have it in for them these days.

Dominant teams don't normally incur the wrath of officials: the benefit of the doubt usually sits with the side which has the momentum and control of the contest...[P]erhaps they could be justified in wondering whether they are victims of an unconscious refereeing conspiracy.

All Black coach Steve Hansen gave the impression after the 12-all draw in Sydney that he's not yet sure to which school of thought he subscribes. "The first thing you have to find out is whether they [yellow cards] are correct decisions and if they are not you can't do much about those ones," he said. "I know some of them weren't right because the referees have apologised for them."

This line of argument will not find many supporters outside New Zealand, where many hold the belief, rightly or wrongly, that All Black infringements have been overlooked for years. England would very much like to have seen referees with a penchant for carding New Zealanders during their three match series in June.

Gregor Paul is right that decisions often go with the team on top during a match. However, if you are going to judge whether the All Blacks are receiving undue focus, then you probably need a bigger sample size than the one he looks at. You also can't look at supposed unjust cards without considering offences which went unpunished. If the officials had spotted the offence, Andrew Hore would have seen red against Wales in 2012, which is perhaps the highest profile escape under Steve Hansen.

I don't know where the truth lies but, as England found in the early days of Martin Johnson's reign, when you get a reputation for infringing, referees police you more closely. Biltong has often made the same point about the Springboks, so I doubt he will have much sympathy here.

I know this is going to be criticised and poorly judged, but sometimes the best thing is just to "bliksem" someone.

Biltong wrote:I know this is going to be criticised and poorly judged, but sometimes the best thing is just to "bliksem" someone.

I understand exactly what you mean. When you're painted into a corner and there's no way out then sometimes that's the only option.

Dit is snaaks.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Dit is snaaks.

Imagine Bilts stuck in a corner with a paintbrush and bucket of yellow paint.

Bryce would be wearing some for sure!   

 I doubt I will be doing any painting.

What was that movie where Brad Pitt got that thing around his neck that kept tightening until his head got ripped off? Give Biltong one of those-I agree with his philosophy.

PK is a chewing gum in NZ. In Durban I learned it was also an abbreviation for poesklapp (a synonym for bliksem if I'm not mistaken). I'm imagining Bryce saying the catchphrase "Doesn't matter. I've got PK" and Biltong saying yes you do f**ker, yes you do.

Ah it was funny to me. Kia back me up.

Biltong wrote: I doubt I will be doing any painting.

I know mate. Your fingers are too big to hold a delicate little paint brush. Same reason why you use your elbows to type.  

I bet you'd like to type a few words on Bryce's face, huh?

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Biltong wrote: I doubt I will be doing any painting.

I know mate. Your fingers are too big to hold a delicate little paint brush. Same reason why you use your elbows to type.  

I bet you'd like to type a few words on Bryce's face, huh?

  

Yep, but I would like to use more than my elbows to do that round of typing.

Is anybody getting the feeling the AB's may have peaked a little early in prep for the WC?

I know it's very early days and a draw away isn't a bad result but it wasn't a great AB performance and some of their key players (Kaino, McCaw, Franks, LH??, Jane etc) are looking a little off the pace.

disneychilly wrote:What was that movie where Brad Pitt got that thing around his neck that kept tightening until his head got ripped off? Give Biltong one of those-I agree with his philosophy.

PK is a chewing gum in NZ. In Durban I learned it was also an abbreviation for poesklapp (a synonym for bliksem if I'm not mistaken). I'm imagining Bryce saying the catchphrase "Doesn't matter. I've got PK" and Biltong saying yes you do f**ker, yes you do.

Ah it was funny to me. Kia back me up.

  

You're learning mate, us Afrikaners are a curious breed, simple people with polite and simple solutions.

dc, when you have to explain a joke, you know it's time to make another joke to take the edge off falling flat on your face.   

Sgt Pooly, England can win lose 3 games in NZ and they held NZ close to two scores and they've got work to do but they'll be at home and they're peaking.

NZ had a sketchy Autumn tour, looked flakey for much of the England series and put in a fairly abject performance last weekend with one man down for a quarter of the game, but still didn't lose.

You could well argue the failure to lose may be making the team to be complacent. The attack hasn't fired in quite a few matches and the team often only plays well in patches. But talk of peaking early doesn't wash with me. Every game counts and consistency of results is what matters.

It may be a lean patch but NZ is still finding a way to win. You have every faith in England being able to improve and you'd be right. Believe it or not, we too think there's a lot of improvement in this NZ side. There comes a time when experience must hand over to youthful exuberance but all of those names you mention have a lot to offer. The one you didn't mention, Keven Mealamu would be a better shout. I'd dare say England could well do with a few more players with experience. You can't have everything though. You just have to do the best with what you have. kia kaha

I made Biltong laugh Kia I'll take that as a victory.

Every team has peaks and troughs. NZ however often find a way to win during its troughs. But that comes from putting the pressure on for every test. If you have a drought in something people obviously make a bigger deal of it. But there's pressure in every test. I doubt there were any choker jibes shot at NZ for not being able to win a series in SA.

Don't worry mate, I appreciated it from a nostalgic point of view.

There are set phrases like we are building nicely, the gap is closing, NZ is peaking, we have confidence that get bandied about as if you could draw a linear line in performance. It's not that simple. There are games you click and there are games you look well and truly off the pace and there are games where you look both. Each test brings its own particular context as well as challenges. You're only as good as your last game with a view to the next one. It's tempting to get out the ruler and connect up the dots and draw your conclusions. But if you don't prepare right one week or you don't execute well out on the field, you get found out. It doesn't matter what happened before. So when it does happen, you take it on the chin and look for ways to improve in a manner not dissimilar to when you win and you also look for ways to improve.

You're trying to achieve the impossible: consistency of results with improvement in every game. You're not ever going to be able to do that but that's what the top sides strive for. In a way, Australia, SA, NZ, England, Ireland have all done that to some extent but surprise, surprise they're all not completely happy with their evolution. I haven't heard SA have peaked too early after their match against Argentina last week...

It is because we are yet to peak in 100 years of playing this game

If that's true BB we're all fecked sooner or later

Good thing is, when we do decide to peak, it might last a decade or more   

SA's building for the next century. it's too early to claw back the number one spot this century. But 2114 watch out. Mark my words!

Hahaha, this century mate.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:SA's building for the next century. it's too early to claw back the number one spot this century. But 2114 watch out. Mark my words!

2114? Cool, DC will just be back from injury by then...  

 good one T'man

That means Juan Smith returns too early, eh?

Biltong wrote: good one T'man

That means Juan Smith returns too early, eh?

Naah he's down as long term....2214 for Juan...he'll get two tests in just before the Earths core melts- so make sure he doesnt get injured in that first one!

Gregor Paul has decided this to wade in on this one again:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11313001

Poor refereeing has become the issue on which the All Blacks can no longer stay quiet. Unbeaten in 18 tests and having lost only one of their last 35, they can hardly be accused of using poor refereeing as an excuse.

Ewen Mckenzie has had a pop back

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/ewen-mckenzie-hits-out-at-ref-complaints-20140822-1078ww.html

McKenzie said the All Blacks needed to look at how they've bent the laws over time to see how they're now paying the price...McKenzie said Hansen's gripes about the scrum and Crockett's sin-binning were highly selective, and praised referees for being more consistent in punishing cynical indiscretions.